Benoit vs HHH

[notJames 0]

HBK is set to feud with Kane at SummerSlam. And besides, HBK in the title scene is played out. Keep his boring Jeebus-lovin' Clique-glommin' ass out of it.

 

Benoit NEEDS to beat HHH one-on-one. No ifs, ands or buts. No one-month reign for HHH. If they're serious about Benoit as champion being taken seriously (which I doubt given the last few months), then that is what they need to do. Having HHH beat him for the belt will only send RAW two steps back.

[algrim 0]

If HHH is going to take the falloff to film his movie, I don't really understand why he needs to win the belt right now. Then again, this is the man that once said that he wanted to beat Flair's record before he retires. I'll admit that HHH is a good worker (when he feels like it) gut somebody really needs to tell him he's not Flair .

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Touche pussycat!!

Triple H has buried everybody in WWE that's why they are having a hard time in creating new main eventers, Benoit will be part of that club right after SS and then we are back to square one with Triple cHHHin being the one and only main eventer on RAW/SD.

 

Oh yeah, except for Benoit, Shelton, etc.

 

HHH has been putting wrestlers over lately. His association with Eugene adds to him as well.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Except for the fact that Shelton's not a main eventer...

 

And, in reality, HHH hasn't put anyone over since when he semi-jobbed to Benjamin in their first match.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Touche pussycat!!

Triple H has buried everybody in WWE that's why they are having a hard time in creating new main eventers, Benoit will be part of that club right after SS and then we are back to square one with Triple cHHHin being the one and only main eventer on RAW/SD.

 

Oh yeah, except for Benoit, Shelton, etc.

 

HHH has been putting wrestlers over lately. His association with Eugene adds to him as well.

Pfffffff.

 

HHH "making" Benjamin is a fucking joke. How did the WWE capitalize on it? By putting him in a shitty PPV match w/ Flair, How 'bout after that? Feud with Orton where he was more then ready to take the strap but instead they gave him two clean wins which we knew was going to lead to an Orton win at the PPV. You could argue (and it's likely) that if he wasn't injured that we'd be seeing Benjy take the win at Vengence or SS, but that ship has sailed.

 

No way anybody would make the mistake of calling him a "main eventer".

 

Oh, and his association with Eugene is going to kill the character and everything they've worked towards.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

How did he "put over" Benoit and Benjamin when they are still very-much "under" him? Tapping to Benoit and dropping the strap doesn't make a lick of difference as-long-as Benoit is still essentially in the same position he was before WM 20. It is still the HHH show, so Benoit winning the title did nothing besides altering HHH's wardrobe. Had the show not been focused on HHH so much (which is different than "hey, let's put Benoit on TV for half the show and talk about him for the other half"), then the loss would have been significant. There is a distinct difference between "jobbing" and "putting over", and the difference is the effects it has on the persons career. Benjamin is no better off than he was when he first came to RAW, they did a horrible follow-up and yes you can "blame" that on HHH because if he wanted to put over Benjamin he has enough stroke and in-put to do so.

 

And there is _no_ justification to the HIAC match being (WAY) more important than the Heavyweight Title match. HHH and HBK had _lots_ of time to finish their feud before Benoit had the belt and they could have waited. There was no good reason for the HIAC match to exist in the first place. Benoit has had his run subtly sabotaged since day one, and just because he isn't walking HHH's dog doesn't mean he's not HHH's bitch. By playing second fiddle _while champion_ to HHH, it totally undermines his credibility as champion. He can win all the matches he wants, as long as those matches are meaningless so is he.

[Dangerous A 0]

How did he "put over" Benoit and Benjamin when they are still very-much "under" him?  Tapping to Benoit and dropping the strap doesn't make a lick of difference as-long-as Benoit is still essentially in the same position he was before WM 20.  It is still the HHH show, so Benoit winning the title did nothing besides altering HHH's wardrobe.  Had the show not been focused on HHH so much (which is different than "hey, let's put Benoit on TV for half the show and talk about him for the other half"), then the loss would have been significant.  There is a distinct difference between "jobbing" and "putting over", and the difference is the effects it has on the persons career.  Benjamin is no better off than he was when he first came to RAW, they did a horrible follow-up and yes you can "blame" that on HHH because if he wanted to put over Benjamin he has enough stroke and in-put to do so. 

 

And there is _no_ justification to the HIAC match being (WAY) more important than the Heavyweight Title match.  HHH and HBK had _lots_ of time to finish their feud before Benoit had the belt and they could have waited.  There was no good reason for the HIAC match to exist in the first place.  Benoit has had his run subtly sabotaged since day one, and just because he isn't walking HHH's dog doesn't mean he's not HHH's bitch.  By playing second fiddle _while champion_ to HHH, it totally undermines his credibility as champion.  He can win all the matches he wants, as long as those matches are meaningless so is he.

That's about as right as it gets.

 

Watch Pride. It 0wns your faces.

[iggymcfly 0]

I really don't see why it should be HHH's responsibility to lobby the WWE to push Shelton Benjamin. They asked him to put the guy over, and he did twice and never took his job back.

 

Then, despite being given a huge push, Benjamin was getting pretty lukewarm responses and not doing very good work, so the writers decided to hold off on him a little bit. They had him lose to Orton at Vengeance, at which point he promptly got injured. They gave him every opportunity to succeed and he didn't. I'm not a big fan of the "guy turns babyface, gets the god push out of nowhere, and can suddenly beat everyone on the roster effortlessly" anyway, so I don't feel that bad about him not breaking through.

 

As for Benoit, he had a weak challenger at Bad Blood, so they took advantage of the chance to blowoff the HHH/HBK feud and keep the buyrate up. It would have been nice if the writers put a little more effort into the title feud, but really Lita overshadowed Benoit more than HHH did. Benoit's still been made to look extremely strong, as in the last six months, he hasn't taken the fall in a single match, won the Royal Rumble from #1, and made the three top name workers on Raw tap out clean.

 

I'd say if anyone on Raw's been made to look weak, it's HHH. His win in the HIAC was his only clean win on PPV in the last year, and he certainly doesn't feel like Benoit's equal going into Vengeance. A clean win seems virtually out of the question, and the only thing people are wondering going into the PPV is whether Benoit will be able to overcome the interference of Eugene and the rest of Evolution.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Iggy, how did Kane become a "weak challenger"? Think for a second. What was his "#1 contenders match"? How did he win that match? There ya go.

 

I never said HHH had the responsibility to "lobby" for Benjamin, I was responding to the claims that HHH "put Benjamin over". He didn't. If he did, then Benjamin would have been better-off than he was before facing HHH. HHH has a history of meaningless jobs, this is no different. Had HHH lobbied for Benjamin, then he'd deserve praise. He should get a pat on the back for actually _doing something_, not stooging and jobbing that has no effect whatsoever after the match is over.

 

T/F, HHH is more important on RAW than Benoit.

 

"Weak" and "Strong" through wins and losses don't tell the whole story. They don't tell the story at all, really. This past monday Benoit and Kane were fighting "for the chance to face HHH". That was the context. HHH is the sun and everything else gravitates around him. How does that make Benoit look?

 

Benoit lost to HBK, btw. And still hasn't beaten HHH in a singles match.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Kane wasn't a weak character because of HHH or Shawn Micheals. Kane was a weak challenger because he's consistantly been involved in horrible angles and storylines, his character has no continuity, and the WWE has 5 billion other "monsters".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The fans buy Kane though, so it doesn't take a whole lot to "build him up". When Kane and Batista were face-to-face, the crowd reacted favourably. They believed they were going to see a monster-down. Had Kane tore through the entire Battle Royal and then "continued his reign of terror" for a couple of weeks so that Benoit _had to_ stop him, then they could have had something of a meaningful match. But they didn't cause Shawny and Trips want to have their Flair/Steamboat all-time-classic and who cares if they screw-over the champ in the process.

 

HHH about to beat Kane and then Shawn eliminating him is clear-cut evidence of how Benoit is treated as champ. When the #1 contender for the title is cut off at the knees, the title match is. The fact that Kanes storyline with Lita took precidence over his title feud shows where the writing team has their priorities in terms of writing for Benoit. A team which, btw, is headed by Stephanie McMahon.

[Guest SoZe]

Well said. I was very let-down with how Shawn and H totally took the attention off the battle royal. It could have been done in so many different, and better ways. If they were SO intent on shawn taking HHH out, why not do it earlier, and let Kane make some kind of statement by kicking ass and looking like a legit monster. But he got hit with a low-blow, and LAYED THERE doing nothing for the next 5 minutes, and totally lucked out. Jesus, it's not all that hard to make a guy his size, who the fans already accept as a threat, look like good in a battle royal. It had been done since the format was born, Vince had been able to do it with Kane HIMSELF in previous Rumbles.

 

I didn't have a problem with them getting the main event slot with the HITC match, the same thing happened with the Bret v Patriot match at Badd Blood in 97. You just don't follow a HITC match. What I had a problem with, was that they felt the program leading into the HITC match was SO STRONG, that they felt one featuring the WORLD TITLE wasn't needed, in any way. And it pissed me off. Let Shawn and HHH have the main event slot at the damn PPV, but do you have to completely IGNORE the match for the title?? No, they just chose to.

 

I'm still very thankful that Chris has gotten this run with the belt. He has not been made the focal point of the show, and they could have made him into a bigger deal. But they keep putting him out there, and he keeps winning matches. And I have a feeling he's not as dissapointed in this reign as a lot of his biggest fans are. He doesn't really seem like the guy to be cutting 20 minutes promos, he's a wrestler. That's what he does, he wrestles. You have every right to be dissapointed in his run as champ, and I don't think you're wrong about anything you've said about it. But I will remember these last few months as one of my pinnacles as a fan. They've been letting him go out there and prove who he really is, and I'm thankful for it. It's kind of like a lifetime acheivement award, but I'll never forget it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Honestly, I'm more thankful for them giving him his own DVD than the big gold belt. However, I am _very_ thankful for the DVD, so that means something.

[iggymcfly 0]

I just want to say that while HBK making HHH lose the battle royal certainly didn't do Kane any favors, it was far from the deciding factor to make him a weak challenger. His backstory doesn't even come close to making sense any more, and going into Bad Blood, he'd lost in his last four PPV appearances with his most recent win being the huge rub he got defeating Shane McMahon in an ambulance match.

 

As for them saying that the winner of Benoit and Kane would meet HHH, that's a cute little device that they always use when they have a title match after the #1 contender's set for the next PPV. It doesn't mean anything.

 

Benoit's reign is not without its faults, and it certainly would be a step back if HHH gets the title back at Vengeance. However, even if he does Benoit would still have the most dominant title run by a face since The Rock back in 2000. I think maintaining that he's been held down would be a gross misjudgement.

[ISportsFan 0]

Benoit's reign is not without its faults, and it certainly would be a step back if HHH gets the title back at Vengeance. However, even if he does Benoit would still have the most dominant title run by a face since The Rock back in 2000. I think maintaining that he's been held down would be a gross misjudgement.

I don't sweat the little things, like saying the winner of Benoit/Kane "gets the right to face HHH" at Vengeance. But, there are so many BIG things that have hurt his reign.

 

His win over Shawn Michaels was dirty as can be, with the fall coming after the Pedigree by HHH. He's beaten Kane twice: the first time in a match with no backstory that wasn't even the main event, and the second time in a match with 2 commercial breaks over 15 minutes of action. His title reign has taken on a role of a) defending Eugene's honor and b) being in the semi-main event while HHH takes the main role.

 

Those are the main deficiences in Benoit's treatment. To be fair though, he has submission victories over HHH and Michaels (in 3 ways, but submission victories nonetheless), a pinfall win and submission win over Kane, and is being pushed as "for real." But, he's still in the secondary main event when HHH isn't involved.

 

As for the most dominant face run since Rock, I'd say Brock's after WM XIX where he beat Cena in a minor match at Backlash, beat Big Show at Judgment Day in the main event (over HHH's match), and where he was the main focus of the show would be a more dominating reign -- just because he was put in the main event of the show on Smackdown from title win to title loss.

 

Jason

[iggymcfly 0]

I thought about Brock's reign too, but I really think Benoit's has been more dominant. Brock's match with Cena may have been the Smackdown main event, but it was still booked behind Rock/Goldberg and the six-man tag from Raw. Cena was even less of a credible threat at the time than Kane is now, and it was a very inauspicious title defense. His only other PPV defense was against Big show in another fairly unimpressive match, and then at Vengeance, he lost clean to Angle.

 

Unless HHH really is a political monster, and the whole last three and a half months were just a big funny joke between Steph and Paul, I really don't think HHH will beat Benoit clean at Vengeance. The two runs were very similar, but I'd say Benoit's reign has been more dominant then Lesnar's thus far.

[Guest Rrrsh]

I'm still waiting for a Christian/Benoit PPV main event match.

Thats about 5 times worse of an idea than any HHH/Benoit macth