The One and Only Vengeance Thread

[Dangerous A 0]

Edited: Meltzer and everybody replying to WrestlingObserver is saying that Orton/Edge was an excellent match.

The last 5 minutes were excellent. The rest of the match was an extended headlock sequence and a gay looking spooning spot.

[Guest Choken One]

well...due to unforseen circumstances, i couldn't see The show until right at the tail end of the tag match.

 

I can't really judge tonight's show because of my general unhappy mood i was in at the time but Orton/Edge appeared good and the crowd there was postitve and hot for it. Shit breaked the womans match and I enjoyed the main event and I don't agree with the skeptics here that think Benoit came off weak here.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Triple H vs. Chris Benoit was no doubt the best match of the night. The rollup wasn't too sudden and didn't hurt the finish. I'm fans of both men, but it's a shame that Benoit's reign is likely going to come to an end next month. ***3/4

 

Overall, an okay show. Worth the money (half-price), but I wouldn't say it's better than Backlash. From what I saw from Bad Blood, it was definitely superior.

This PPV sucked. It was the worst example of pro HHH booking/stupid movieentertainment endings that I've ever seen. Ever. If Benoit weren't there I'd be gone right now.

Pro HHH booking?

 

----In order to finally beat Chris Benoit, he needed EUGENE to run into the ring and use a steel chair.

 

----The plan Triple H - the cerebral assassin - has been devising for a month completely fell apart tonight. Which means it wasn't such a good plan in the first place, and that Triple H actually *gasp* planned poorly....

 

 

 

----And if you can't take a little shot at your post tough----Triple H tapped out to the Crippler Crossface.

 

The ending of the match didn't do HIM any favors. It didn't do BENOIT any favors either.

 

The bias you're screaming about right now is making you look silly, simply because its basis is unfounded. Hunter really wasn't booked to look good tonight!

Sorry if I screwed up any quotes here

 

Yes, pro HHH booking. He never takes a clean fall one on one. What other heel looks as strong as he does? Nobody. He's booked as a top face despite being the top heel. For doing what a heel is supposed to do get his opponents over I would consider him the worst heel ever. This booking allows HHH to skip past a PPV spot in the main event without losing a match and at the same time the booking allows HHH to conviently go up against Benoit at a bigger stage. When HHH wins the belt how much do you want to bet that the Benoit/HHH program will be hyped 100 more times than Veangance? Benoit's "victory" will be rememberd by nobody and HHH's victory will be remembered by everyone.

 

rder to finally beat Chris Benoit, he needed EUGENE to run into the ring and use a steel chair.

 

It's all about the future booking. Besides everybody knows that the stupid "entertainment" crap is a joke. The only reason for all this was so that HHHwouldn't lose a match one on one.

 

----The plan Triple H - the cerebral assassin - has been devising for a month completely fell apart tonight. Which means it wasn't such a good plan in the first place, and that Triple H actually *gasp* planned poorly....

 

So what? Who cares if HHH planned the ugene saga poorly? Not to be sassy but that's how I feel.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Benoit won. He beat HHH. He's made HHH tape out. He's made HBK tap out. He's made Kane tap out.

 

There's nothing wrong with how Benoit is being booked.

 

"But CWM, Benoit isn't getting enough tv time! It's obviously a HHH conspiracy!"

 

Yep HHH wants the company his fatherinlaw own's to fail.

 

I wouldn't want Benoit to get alot of tv time. All that would happen is people would start whining about how he has no charisma or mic skills.

 

Benoit looks better when he's not all over the show. He does a promo or skit and then he kicks some ass.

 

It's the same thing that Goldberg did in WcW. Yes, Benoit is not being booked as strong as Goldberg was. But he's been booked well enough to be a believable champion and that's just got to be enough,

 

HHH has power backstage. But everything happens because of Vince. If Vince didn't want it this way it wouldn't happen. So don't just blame HHH,

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Benoit was screwed over tonight like nobody has ever been screwed over before. HHH meanwhile gets protected for the millionth time. Words can not begin to express my disgust at the whole Benoit vs HHH match. What it did and what it means. I've never been more disgusted over a wrestling match in my entire life.

I dunno I remember a guy named Bret Hart getting screwed pretty bad awhile back.

[Mole 0]

Anyone else going to do star ratings?

[Guest Choken One]

Perhaps its only me but I liked how Benoit wasn't gullible and actually showed he had some intelligence in attacking Eugene as he came in, Knowing that he couldn't trust Eugene and that he NEEDED the chair because he knew Evolution was going to be all over him and he used it to clear them out.

 

Eugene's performence at the end was just great and he really has this angle working on a great level "he's going to be mad at me" was just a great line that supported Eugene's Mental vulnerablity even after HHH threw him off the apron and called him a stupid son of a bitch....

 

I'm starting to get the feeling Benoit is going to be more desperate in his wins and thats a good thing, It's what made Austin's 2001 character so great, with his intense refusal to lose, Benoit should be even more entertaining because Mr. Nice Guy wasn't going to cut it, Im hoping we get more of this "fuck this" style from Benoit, not quite heel or tweener but a harder nosed Benoit is a good thing.

 

Of Course here people actually buy into the HHHATE HHHYPE and believe in some stupid way that HHH was protected here. He wasn't. He has tapped out to Benoit on TV 4 times now, couldn't deliver on his countless promises of getting the title off Benoit and is losing slowly but surely control of Evolution. HHH has layed down for other workers...Yeah does he get more airtime the Benoit? Of Course he does, putting the camera on Benoit and making him the focus would be a diasterous thing to do.

 

But you know what? fuck it, go ahead and continue to believe that HHH is just holding down Benoit, you are just pissed because he didn't bury Benoit like he did RVD, Booker, Jericho and Kane. He has taken away your right and reason to bitch so you grasp at straws to find something to complain about.

 

Is Benoit booked to be superman? No he isn't nor is HHH.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Star Ratings:

 

Benoit/HHH - **** Really hot match without the predictable HHH always goes over crap. Sure, it leaves things WIDE open for a rematch. I think that was the point tho.

 

Molly/Victoria - * Nothing special, but didn't suck too bad. Popcorn match.

 

Edge/Orton - ****1/4 One of the best matches this year. The early portion that everybody seems to not like sold the exhaustion factor really well. Not all weardown moves are worked towards wasting time and resting. Orton was ACTIVE during them IMO (i.e. trapping Egdes legs in a grapevine keeping him from escaping).I was calling out for a Tully Blanchard Slingshiot suplex from Orton but never got it

 

Kane/Hardy - **1/2 Match was decent til the finish, which I have seen Kane use that spot waaaaay too many times. Plus, I agree Kane should have gone over but with a semi-screwjob like feet on the ropes or something to set up a match perhaps after Hardys surgury.

 

Flair & Eugene - *** A good time. Eugene got much of his face heat back here. Flair just being there helped alot. La Rez looks pretty good these days too.

 

Rhyno & Tajiri/Coach and Cade - Missed most of this have to watch the tape. Crowd seemed into it tho.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Opening tag: Decent and solid.

 

Jericho/Batista: Good "big man vs. little" match. Still, very boring.

 

Edge/Orton: AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL, and BORING. Very hot last 4-5 minutes, though. Could have sworn they were going for a draw. Lay off the rest holds, Orton. You fucking suck and Edge is equally as boring.

 

World Tag Titles: Very hot crowd. Mostly A)chops and B)La Rez slapping Flair around. Decent tho.

 

Women's #1 Contender: Solid, if underappreciated. Good psychology by Molly.

 

Kane/Hardy: The crowd was actually a little more into this than I predicted. Lame ending, but Hardy worked his ASS OFF. And it wasn't a "Kane beatdown" for whoever "reported" that, Hardy got a bunch of shots in with weapons, chairs, TV monitor, and reversing the tombstone into a (very sloppy) twist of fate. Equally sloppy chokeslam in the match, too.

 

World Title: Very solid bout...highly enjoyable. Terrible ending. Okay, so the chair knocks HHH down. I get it. But he STANDS UP and then gets simply rolled up? Lame. Kill this stupid Eugene shit.

 

Eh, great Raw. Awful $35 PPV.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

**** 1/4 for Orton/Eugene? You're out of your fucking mind. The ENTIRE MATCH was one big rest hold. I don't care if Orton "twitched his legs"...that isn't psychology, that's compensating for your lack of in-ring skill.

 

Crowd liked Orton and shit on Edge at first.

 

And then after ORTON DID REST HOLDS FOR 25 MINUTES the crowd turned on Orton and apathetically supported Edge.

 

3 (hot) minutes later, a new champ, and a thankful end to a shitty bout.

 

 

STAR RATINGS:

 

Tajiri/Rhyno Vs. The Coach & Cade: * 1/2

Batista Vs. Jericho: * 1/4

Eugene & Flair Vs. La Resistance: **

Kane Vs. Hardy: * 3/4

Edge Vs. Orton: **

Molly Vs. Victoria: * 3/4

HHH Vs. Benoit: *** 3/4

[Guest wildpegasus]

But you know what? fuck it, go ahead and continue to believe that HHH is just holding down Benoit, you are just pissed because he didn't bury Benoit like he did RVD, Booker, Jericho and Kane. He has taken away your right and reason to bitch so you grasp at straws to find something to complain about.

 

Is Benoit booked to be superman? No he isn't nor is HHH.

You're blind. HHH's being protected and Benoit's title reign continues to be sabatoged.

 

Personally, I don't need HHH to complain about something. Trust me, I can complain about a lot more. Why would someone be angry that Benoit's "not getting buried" anyway?

[Tawren 0]

I just watched Orton/Edge and HHH/Benoit (the power of a friend taping the show and bringing me tape ASAP~!, god bless illegal satellite and skipping over shitty looking matches) and they both sucked. Orton/Edge had a fun final few minutes but aside from that was incredibly weak. There was way too much resting and these two should not have been out there for as long as they were.

 

HHH/Benoit frustrated me more than I wanted it to. Instead of "Benoit managed to win" it was definitely more of "Benoit got lucky to beat that incredible HHH". I hate contrived finishes like we got here and aside from a few neat spots like the suicide tope, this was a really pedestrian match.

 

As for the "HHH has been putting people over" argument, I can't see how that works. Two fluke wins by Benjamin, both portrayed as such, and the guy isn't even on TV anymore (did he get injured and I wasn't informed? I'm serious). Benoit beat him at WMXX but Benoit has been all but stuck on the high end of the midcard since then despite being champ. HHH has sucked up the same amount of TV time he always has recieved and instead of Raw being about the champ it has been about the challenger. I'm not looking for reasons to hate HHH, I am looking at the facts.

[Guest Choken One]

Sabotaged? How?

 

Get out of your own ass. Benoit has beaten Triple H three times, Made him tap 4 times, outsmarted him all the way tonight.

 

 

Because he isn't beating HHH completely and totally clean he is being sabotaged? I swear you take your idiotic fandom way to far with Benoit.

 

HHH has in NO FUCKING WAY been protected here.

[Guest wildpegasus]

 

 

 

HHH has layed down for other workers

 

only for Michaels and like I said before he never laid down for Benjamin. It wasn't clean.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Benoit PUNCHED EUGENE as Eugene was standing on the apron deciding whether or not to get the referee.

 

Storyline: Benoit could take "no chances" with a "member" of Evolution out there.

 

The Truth: The crowd briefly gasped and boo'd Benoit for his heelish action. All seeds for drawing the crowd's love away from the champion from Farmer Hunter.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Sabotaged? How?

 

Get out of your own ass. Benoit has beaten Triple H three times, Made him tap 4 times, outsmarted him all the way tonight.

 

 

Because he isn't beating HHH completely and totally clean he is being sabotaged? I swear you take your idiotic fandom way to far with Benoit.

 

HHH has in NO FUCKING WAY been protected here.

Benoit's been subtly buried constantly since the Rumble. Sometimes the bookers can't resist and it's done in an obvious way. I've talked about this before and so has RRR.

 

 

Benoit has beaten HHH 0 times.

 

Because he isn't beating HHH completely and totally clean he is being sabotaged? I swear you take your idiotic fandom way to far with Benoit.

 

Partly. His reign has been sabotaged in other ways too wether the bookers know it or not. I would say there are some people that are looking out for him though.

 

HHH has in NO FUCKING WAY been protected here

 

Than why didn't he lose cleanly on a PPV blowoff match? Answer -- because he needs to be protected for his next PPV match against Benoit. Therefore, he was protected. Checkmate.

[CanadianChick 0]

Heh, quite funny the different opinions on the Edge/Orton match. The ratings have been from ** to ****1/4. Very strange.

[Astro7x 0]

From the same guy who brought you those tons of Great American Bash pictures last PPV, me.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~astro7x/vengeance.wmv

 

Don't leach it please... I am trying to not whore it out so the bandwidth is not killed.

 

It's just the finishes of the matches, about 4:30 in length, 11.5MB in size

[Jebus 0]

Thanks a lot, Astro!

[Papacita 0]

Then we have Randy Orton jobbing the Intercontinental Title. With every passing title defense, Orton's character was gaining more and more momentum. He has done more for the legacy of that title than anybody else in the past few years. So what happens? He drops the title to Edge when it just didn't need to be done. Edge doesn't need the IC Title right now. He's held it several times already, and they're obviously grooming him for a top feud with Triple H at this point. The Intercontinental Title does absolutely nothing for Edge's character, but it continued to do so much for Orton - even after he's had the title for nearly eight months! And I won't even go into the crowd reaction. The fact that the majority of the people clearly wanted Randy to retain until he had to scream at them in an attempt to get some boos. The new Intercontinental Champion - the guy who's being groomed for a Main Event spot - the soon-to-be #1 face on Raw........should not be getting booed against an established heel like he was tonight. Just a terrible booking decision.

This was my one real complaint about the show, and I'm totally with NYU on this one. It made no sense at all to take the title off Orton right now. It's kinda frustrating. They seem to be trying to make the I-C title into a prestigious championship again, but just when Orton starts to really get going, they cut him off. And Edge really had nothing to gain by winning the belt. He's already established, and while he may not be all that over, he still comes across as being slightly above I-C level. If they were gonna take the belt off him, at least have him drop it to someone who can benefit from the win.

 

The match itself was my favorite of the night, though. Got a little boring with all the headlocks and everything in the middle (seemed like they had more time then they knew what to do with), but the beginning was tight and I was completely drawn into the end.

 

Overall, I liked the PPV.

[Dangerous K89 0]

Wow. HHHate. Never expected to read any of that here. HHHate is so old. Just get over it. No matter how much bitching any of you do about HHH, nothing is going to ever change because of your bitching. There's no point. It's wasted text. It's wasted effort. It's wasted time.

[Guest JRE]

On the subject of restholds in the Edge/Orton match....

 

I find it completley unrealistic that a fight that drawn out wouldn't have restholds. For people that have been in actual wrestling matches, high school and such, they're just in 2 or 3 minute periods and they're exhausting...30 minutes of constant action? Unrealistic, and a very stupid fighting technique. Honestly, grow a fucking attention span.

 

"Benoit's been subtly buried constantly since the Rumble. Sometimes the bookers can't resist and it's done in an obvious way. I've talked about this before and so has RRR.

 

 

Benoit has beaten HHH 0 times."

 

Stop with the fucking conspiracy bullshit. If you don't count a win as a win if it isn't compltley clean then nobody "wins" anybody these days. I don't see how Triple H tapping out helped Triple H, I don't see how Benoit making him tap out hurts Benoit. AT ALL- there is no fucking way.

 

Triple H jobbed to a school-boy....this place would have blown their heads off if Benoit lost that way.

[King Cucaracha 0]

The rule of thumb for Benoit is no-one here will ever be happy with anything that happens.

 

Benoit wins, but he doesn't win the right way so his title reign has been 'sabotaged'. He punches Eugene and his title reign has been 'sabotaged'. Hell, everyone was whining about Benoit being sabotaged on the Raw he made Kane tap clean.

[Guest Choken One]

yep, because The Lita/Kane thing overshadowed it after the match...ya know despite Benoit re-kicking Kane's ass for further effect.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Benoit PUNCHED EUGENE as Eugene was standing on the apron deciding whether or not to get the referee.

 

Storyline: Benoit could take "no chances" with a "member" of Evolution out there.

 

The Truth: The crowd briefly gasped and boo'd Benoit for his heelish action. All seeds for drawing the crowd's love away from the champion from Farmer Hunter.

Jesus you people read into everything. Just because something happends doesn't mean there's a massive conspiracy. get a life.

[2GOLD 0]

Two things:

 

One- Eugene is losing drawing power fast. The crowd didn't seem to care less about him during the tag title match and not really at all until Benoit punched him. And even then they didn't seem to care. Dinsmore has been severely over exposed now. Which is bad when you are 100% a gimmick character that needs some shelf life. Hopefully they pull back some or he is toasted. I may dislike the character but he's really dead in the water if they just dump the character because of lack of crowd reaction.

 

two- Ok, Jericho has been royally screwed now. He went from the #2 heel (he was still ahead of Orton, behind Trips) to midcard hell again. He went from a reasonably high profile feud with Christian to a possible seed for a feud with Triple H to back to back jobbing efforts to Evolution and just getting his head kicked in by them. I know they want to push Big Daddy Model Dave but what the hell?

 

That's all. The rest of the PPV sounds like more WWE load of horse manure they have been shoveling for the last two months.

[2GOLD 0]

Another thing:

 

I can see where some of the people here are upset. Obviously you will get a blow off match at Summerslam which seems highly likely Benoit will lose and the problem is Benoit really is made to look like he "just escaped" the wrath of Evolution tonight. Which the top level face isn't suppose to "just escape", he is suppose to destory and bring down the captain. Only heels are suppose to "just escape" the wrath of faces, not faces just escaping the heels.

 

He didn't really FOOL Evolution, he survived and took a cheap win over the leader. Compare that to say a Steve Austin or Rock, they didn't escape they battled through and crushed the captain. If Triple H had won with a cheap school boy only to lose at Summerslam then it's cool. Right now it's Benoit will win with a cheap school boy only to lose to a pedigree (with interference of course) at Summerslam. This is where I think people are saying Triple H is being protected. It's not much of a protection, but it's really there when you take long term into account.

 

Now if they don't go with Triple H vs Benoit at Summerslam then this worked out weak but fine since Benoit will still have took the blow off match from Triple H. However right now the most highly promoted match, Triple H vs Benoit in a rematch at Summerslam will likely end in Benoit getting pinned after a finisher thus giving Triple H the STRONG 1-on-1 victory while Benoit gets the heelish "just escaped by the skin of his teeth" win at this PPV.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

From the same guy who brought you those tons of Great American Bash pictures last PPV, me.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~astro7x/vengeance.wmv

 

Don't leach it please... I am trying to not whore it out so the bandwidth is not killed.

 

It's just the finishes of the matches, about 4:30 in length, 11.5MB in size

Awesome stuff... thanks alot for posting that.

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, I didn't actually see the PPV live, but I downloaded the main event, watched it without knowing who won, read results of the PPV, and then read this entire thread. Here's what I thought:

 

First, the actual main event was excellent. They had quite the booking conundrum, trying to keep heat on a Benoit/HHH main event for Summerslam, trying not to kill Benoit's reign early, and still trying to deliver a solid finish. They did all that tonight. Neither Benoit nor HHH really looked weak, and the wrestling portion of the match actually made me more hungry to see what they could do if given 40 minutes to go to a clean finish. I'd say that it was about ***3/4, as there were portions that were very entertaining, and I was into the match from start to finish, but the wrestling portion of the match did feel kind of disjointed from the entertainment portion with Eugene.

 

As for wildpegasus, I've got two words. Fucking ridiculous. A face isn't "buried" if he doesn't blow through every heel with clean victories. I don't want the WWE to revert to Goldberg-era WCW, and I certainly don't want it to revert to Hogan's squashes from the 80's. The fact is that HHH has one clean win on PPV in the last twelve months. Benoit has two clean wins over HHH in the last four months. HHH had to be protected a little bit tonight, or else he wouldn't be viable to main event the next PPV. Benoit got a ton of heat tonight for overcoming Evolution yet again, beating three men if not four to retain his title. And he did it while still leaving a strong opponent for Summerslam. With this victory tonight, I'd actually be willing to call Benoit's reign the most dominant face run since Austin back in 1998. I know you've been posting for years about Benoit getting held down, but he's not any more. Get over it.

 

If I were going to complain about the PPV, I'd say that the worst problem Raw has is that they're still afraid to put over heels. Kane and Orton are two of the three credible main event heels on Raw. They've both done well in their roles, and tonight, they both lost to utterly heatless faces. Edge is as likely to draw boos as cheers, and Hardy's an afterthought even before heading off for surgery. Both those finishes are huge mistakes, and unless someone's turning soon, the lack of depth among the heels on Raw is really going to come back to hurt them.

[Guest JacK]

I loved the ending to the Main Event . . . it was like chaotic, I had no idea what was going to happen, and was all worrying that Benoit would lose. That's what draws me in, like at the end of the Orton-Edge match when I was panicing that Randy would lose his title.

Anyway, and I was glad when Benoit smacked Eugene, I was sick of Nice Guy Chris. I just wanted to see him slap everyone who came near him in a crossface or something, but maybe that's a little bit of overkill.

And Jericho lost to Batista . . . who cares? He always loses. He's like Kane really.

It's kind of weird . . . the only three match's where I cared about the result for any length of time were the four involving title scenes.