Bret Hart responds to Ric Flair's comments

[Promoter 0]

Man, forget Foley/Flair. Hart/Flair is where it's at. Too bad that aint happening. Another thing is this...Hart must be belly aching to see he can't come back and prove himself. HBk has done it. Flair has done it. Hell, even Hulk Hogan. I can't believe Bret's ego isn't itching for him to at least step back in the ring once.

 

Damn, Hogan? Damn, that Goldberg! for ending Hart's career. It's funny how Hogan simply signing with wcw changed a lot of the course of history. I can only hope this recent article of Bret can change history like that. I mean Hart was apart of another thing that changed wrestling's history as we all know. I think Hart would have been THE man for the wwf to bring back if he was capable. Hart/Michaels rematch would be off the charts. Hart/Mcmahon would be off the charts. Hart/HHH would be sweet. Hart/Angle would be great. Hart/Benoit as well. Hart/Guerrero. Hart/Jbl(oops ).

He would also bring in tons of fresh storylines to work with.

[Guest Loss]

Bret had a stroke. I think it's easy for people to forget that. He has about as much chance of coming back and wrestling a match as Owen.

 

I do think Bret could add a lot to the television and I'd love to see him start booking WWE with full control, but the odds of either happening are pretty low.

[nl5xsk1 0]

We know Vince is hard up on the Bret Hart DVD and knows it'll likely outsell Flair's dvd (most recent fanbase)...

Choken, do you really think the Hart DVD would outsell the Flair one? One of the reasons that the Flair DVD did so well was because of how much old-school footage was included. There was an entire generation of fans that bought that DVD even though they don't own any other wrestling DVD's, just because it was Ric Flair & old-school NWA footage. (one example: me)

 

And a question for those saying that Hart is just responding to Flair's insults with some of his own: what about the article referenced by chaosrage, which has Hart slamming Flair worse than EITHER has done in this recent pissing match? Maybe Flair was just responding to that insult when he badmouthed Hart in his book.

[Guest The Ultimate Fantasy]

Still though does anyone notice about the sheer biasnes about Bret Hart? In every website besides this one, I pretty much read about how Flair is so great and Bret is so bitter and hateful. Fucking A he only talked about the Screwjob because Flair mentioned it.

 

Whatever HBK is still better than both, because he has Flair's charisma, theatrics, influence and critical claim, along with Bret Hart's technical greatness powers, just all around wrestling greatness, and he does not have saggy man-boobs or extreme bitterness.

[AndrewTS 0]

"Whatever HBK is still better than both"

 

That's just opening a can of worms you really don't want to bother with...

 

I'd debate those other points but this isn't the thread for them.

[Guest Birds in the Hotel]

Whatever HBK is still better than both, because he has Flair's charisma, theatrics, influence and critical claim, along with Bret Hart's technical greatness powers, just all around wrestling greatness, and he does not have saggy man-boobs or extreme bitterness.

HA!! Joking, right???

 

It's all apples and oranges anyway....

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Storm was trained in the dungeon and now he works in the same company as Flair.

 

 

He really has nowhere to go.

[Promoter 0]

Those comments were said before Hart apologized to Flair in wcw. Remember he said he re-thought his comments and for the good of the business retracted saying those things. He later would call Flair "inhuman" in the ring on radio. Could mean good or it could mean atrocious

 

I also think a secret to Flair's dvd selling so well was that footage was hardly seen by fans before the explosion of the wwf in the 80's on a mainstream level of home viewing. Hart may have some gems on his dvd as well. I think the Bret dvd will sell. You think Vince aint going to milk this for all its worth?

[Promoter 0]

Personally, I think Storm just wants attention

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I didn't see this on here yet so I figured I would post Meltzer's opinion of this....

 

More on Bret Hart-Ric Flair situation

 

 

 

by Dave Meltzer

 

Here are some of the letters that have come in of late regarding various comments made and such:

 

I don't want to reiterate everything that's been said by others on this,

so let me make a few quick points:

 

-- Bret and Ric have the right to hold each other in less esteem as

workers than does the fan community generally. As far as I can tell,

though, Ric said that Bret was a good, solid physical wrestler, but not

great, repetitive, but could have a tremendous match. That is a far

more positive assessment of Bret's abilities than Bret's assessment of

Ric's, and not one that is so negative as to have warranted a diatribe

at the level of nastiness that Bret produced.

 

-- I don't know how the reference to Owen Hart made it through the

editing process. It was a terrible thing to say, even if you believe

it, and Ric should apologize for it even after Bret's inappropriate

rebuttal. If there is anyone who really believes that Bret would not

lose to Shawn every day for the rest of his life if he thought it would

bring back Owen, he or she is crazy. It is odd, though, the longest and

angriest parts of Bret's rant are in response to Ric's comments about

his work, while the reply to the Owen comment is merely an afterthought

at the end of it. That leads me to think that had Ric not said anything

about Owen but said the rest of it, Bret would have written

substantially the same rant.

 

-- Bret's comments about Ric making himself look like a world beater at

the expense of his opponents is simply inexplicable, and probably does

irreparable damage to the valid points Bret makes. Also inexplicable is

that Bret feels capable of assessing Flair's body of work having,

admittedly, not seen him wrestle prior to 1989. I am a great fan of

Flair, but would never suggest that his work in the WWF between 1991 and

1993, if that is Bret's sole point of reference, is his best work. It

would be like judging Bret solely on his 1998 to 2000 stint with WCW.

Flair continued to be entertaining throughout the 90's, but there is no

meaningful assessment of his ability without looking at his dominant

period from 1981 to 1989. The criticism about repetition in Flair's

matches and reliance on patented comedy bumps rather than psychology is

arguably valid for his 90's matches, and (in my view) generally invalid

for his 80's title bouts.

 

-- Ric is very forthright in his book that he emulated Stevens, Wahoo,

Dusty, Rogers, Funk and Valentine and others, and the comment that his

routine is borrowed from Jackie Fargo and midget wrestlers is inaccurate

and petty.

 

This is not a perfect world, and there is no reason that two performers

should like or respect each other simply because a large number of fans

respect them both very much as do I, but it would be nice for the level

of rhetoric to be toned down a bit.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Those comments were said before Hart apologized to Flair in wcw. Remember he said he re-thought his comments and for the good of the business retracted saying those things. He later would call Flair "inhuman" in the ring on radio. Could mean good or it could mean atrocious

Apologizing for the good of the business = "I'm not sorry for what I said or how you felt about it ... I'm just sorry it's bad for the business that makes me money".

 

An apology like that isn't really an apology, IMHO.

[Guest MikeSC]

I don't want to get too much off the topic, but just responding. WCW didn't have stars? So, who were Sting, Goldberg, Hogan, Hall, Nash, etc. Jusdt because they weren't apart of the last nitro didn't mean they weren't in the company.

They very much were not stars. They didn't draw flies for the last year or so of the company. And, seeing as how the WWE ended up signing all but one of them later and none of them did anything to help the promotion, I feel my opinion is proven by that.

Don't forget the last nitro was going to be the night of champions, but Vince had bought the company and Bischoff's plan for the show fell through. I'm a wwf mark, but to say wcw didn't have stars is a bit of a stretch.

Stars put butts in the seats. WCW guys could not.

I went into how things could have been done with who goes over who and whatnot in the other thread. The wwe didn't use Stiener properly and yes I know he was a stiff. It still doesn't take away that the wwe casted him as a face against all good logic even when the fans were turning on him. Goldberg in a wig and selling for Mark Henry says it all.

Scott was terrible in WCW, so his WWE work wasn't that far from his normal work. And Goldberg, if he can't sell and stay over, is useless --- an argument I made when he was in WCW. WWE shouldn't have signed either as Scott NEVER proved himself as a draw and GB is only a draw if you kill the company to let him become one.

You wouldn't have to let the nWo get over all the faces like wcw. The wcw screwed up with the nWo angle because Bischoff had no long term plan for it(sound familiar?). Sting and Goldberg should have been the ones to put a nail in the coffin of the group, but they didn't.

But, if you DON'T let them run roughshod, you have the problem of "them not being used properly". Either you let them kill the company, or you don't. They don't get over otherwise.

As for the HBK/Flair match I am referring to last year's match on ppv and not the match when he was a tag wrestler.

Being unimpressed with HBK v Flair when Flair was about 54 years old isn't quite fair. Their match during Flair's FIRST WWF run was really good.

 

I thought Meltz' comment about how Bret mentioning Owen only in passing in his tirade were rather accurate.

-=Mike

[Guest Anticrombie]

As for the HBK/Flair match I am referring to last year's match on ppv and not the match when he was a tag wrestler.

Being unimpressed with HBK v Flair when Flair was about 54 years old isn't quite fair. Their match during Flair's FIRST WWF run was really good.

Are you talking about the match which ended in a DQ when HBK missed a leap over the ropes onto Flair because Mr. Perfect moved him, which then resulted in Marty coming out to help him.

 

Because I have that match on my computer, and if you consider that better then anything Bret has done with Flair (including the WWF title change, IC defense, and first WCW match) then you and I clearly see night and day when watching a wrestling match. I was hoping that the match would be good considering HBK idolized Flair, but the match was incredibly dissapointing. Anything Bret has done with Flair wipes the floor with that match.

 

I can't wait for Bad News Brown's update. His comment about Bret as a whiny bastard who, if it was a shoot fight, would never get a job higher than post-show breakdown crew, had me in stitches.

 

Flair = Bitter. Check

Hart = Bitter. Check

Bad News = Bitter. Check

[Guest MikeSC]

As for the HBK/Flair match I am referring to last year's match on ppv and not the match when he was a tag wrestler.

Being unimpressed with HBK v Flair when Flair was about 54 years old isn't quite fair. Their match during Flair's FIRST WWF run was really good.

Are you talking about the match which ended in a DQ when HBK missed a leap over the ropes onto Flair because Mr. Perfect moved him, which then resulted in Marty coming out to help him.

 

Because I have that match on my computer, and if you consider that better then anything Bret has done with Flair (including the WWF title change, IC defense, and first WCW match) then you and I clearly see night and day when watching a wrestling match. I was hoping that the match would be good considering HBK idolized Flair, but the match was incredibly dissapointing. Anything Bret has done with Flair wipes the floor with that match.

Hmm, don't remember saying it was better than anything Bret did. I remember saying it was rather good, especially considering that Shawn had done precious little singles work in years before the match.

 

Shawn was a better worker than Bret, though.

-=Mike

[Promoter 0]

nl5xsk1 your observation is correct. Bret recanted because he had to work with Hogan and Flair in the wcw. Not disputed. I can list many other wrestlers doing the same thing such as Goldberg and Triple H. Still funny nonetheless.

 

A MikeSc, I can't see how guys like Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Sting weren't stars, but to each his own. I think you got to remember how the wcw was booked when Russo joined the group. That was the main problem for wcw. Trying to be a down south attitude organization. In the last few years NOTHING has drawn like the hey day of the attitude era. Triple H isn't drawing like he did in 199-2000. Niether is Undertaker. This doesn't take away the fact these men are stars. The ratings and buy-rates have dropped since 2002 when these guys you say weren't stars were in the wwe. Yep, stars put butts in seats and I think that wcw did do this at one time. Just like how the wwe at one time was selling like hotcakes.

 

I can't defend Steiner admittedly, but Vince has pulled the wool over people's eyes with terrible workers before. I mean what the hell is JBL as WWE Champion? Sometimes it's not about talent, but creating heat for the characters. JBL isn't a draw either, but Vince's job is to promote his business and make people care.

The nWo would initially run roughshod, but they would give heat back to the faces. That was wcw's mistake with the nWo.

 

I admitted that by taking into account Flair is not the Ric Flair of 80's and HBK isn't exactly what he was either. It still doesn't take away the fact the match was ho-hum. I also have the Flair/HBK match from the early 90's and it was a nice match, but nothing great. It's understandable though because of where both men were in their careers at the time. I think Bret only mentioning Owen in passing is accurate. I would hate to see the whole article being about someone who cannot speak for themselves. Bret acknowledged Flair did not know what he was talking about in terms of Montreal and his brother's death.

[Guest Anticrombie]

Hmm, don't remember saying it was better than anything Bret did. I remember saying it was rather good, especially considering that Shawn had done precious little singles work in years before the match.

I apologize, I thought you were still on that. Also, hell no the match was quite bad.

 

It's understandable though because of where both men were in their careers at the time.

 

I guess I can understand Shawn's situation, I was not aware that their were problems from Flair's side, could you explain this?

 

Shawn was a better worker than Bret, though.

 

I read your points, and I disagree with them. I always felt while Shawn could work well as far as the physical aspects are concerned, his matches lack depth (Flair and Hart both bring more depth to their matches). Shawn was too much of a spot monkey for my liking, and his DVD is a testament to that.

[Guest MikeSC]

A MikeSc, I can't see how guys like Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Sting weren't stars, but to each his own. I think you got to remember how the wcw was booked when Russo joined the group. That was the main problem for wcw. Trying to be a down south attitude organization.

You seem to forget that they were doing horrible business BEFORE Russo got there. 1999, outside of the month of April, was horrible on almost every level. Russo certainly didn't help anything, but it's not like he tanked the company.

In the last few years NOTHING has drawn like the hey day of the attitude era. Triple H isn't drawing like he did in 199-2000. Niether is Undertaker. This doesn't take away the fact these men are stars. The ratings and buy-rates have dropped since 2002 when these guys you say weren't stars were in the wwe. Yep, stars put butts in seats and I think that wcw did do this at one time. Just like how the wwe at one time was selling like hotcakes.

When you buy a company, it SHOWS that nobody in that company was drawing at all. The ONLY time Hall and Nash ever drew was in the nWo angle. As singles, they could NEVER draw people to the arena (Nash was the lowest drawing WWF Champ in history). Sting never showed any ability to draw. And Hogan didn't show one since the VERY early 1990's.

 

Flair used to be a great draw. Would you call him one today?

I can't defend Steiner admittedly, but Vince has pulled the wool over people's eyes with terrible workers before. I mean what the hell is JBL as WWE Champion? Sometimes it's not about talent, but creating heat for the characters. JBL isn't a draw either, but Vince's job is to promote his business and make people care.

Well, I'm ready for the inevitable flames, but here goes:

 

JBL is MUCH better than Steiner was in WCW or WWE.

 

Better in almost every possible category. Better in the ring (after Scott roided up, he lost any ability to work), MUCH better on the mic --- he just does EVERYTHING better.

The nWo would initially run roughshod, but they would give heat back to the faces. That was wcw's mistake with the nWo.

Who's to say they would? When have Hall or Nash ever put a soul over? I cannot think of one single occasion.

I think Bret only mentioning Owen in passing is accurate. I would hate to see the whole article being about someone who cannot speak for themselves. Bret acknowledged Flair did not know what he was talking about in terms of Montreal and his brother's death.

But, most people say that the Owen thing was the worst thing Ric said, yet in Bret's eyes, it was of less importance than "protecting his legacy".

 

Protecting his legacy in a totally worked business, mind you.

 

This is why his behavior regarding Montreal so infuriated me. How in the hell does losing a WORKED MATCH in Canada equal "humiliating you"? Is Bret such a mark for himself that he can't seperate work from shoot?

-=Mike

[Guest Anticrombie]

I think it's a Canadian thing, we American's would never stoop to their level

 

"Sweet Land Of Liberty, Of Thee I Sing" (Sheds Tear, toilet flushes in background)

[caboose 0]

Austin would have been the heel and would have run with the belt for the latter part of the year, feuding with Flair, Steamboat and Sting.

Damn Hogan.

Bah, if Hogan and Bischoff had never been prickish to Austin, the WWF/E might never of had Stone Cold Steve Austin. And that would have been a shame.

[haVoc 0]

Protecting his legacy in a totally worked business, mind you.

 

This is why his behavior regarding Montreal so infuriated me. How in the hell does losing a WORKED MATCH in Canada equal "humiliating you"? Is Bret such a mark for himself that he can't seperate work from shoot?

-=Mike

It's already been said wrestlers are marks for themselves in this worked business called professional wrestling. It's their characters and what they do in the ring that makes them money. You would be protective of how you came off on camera as well if your lively hood depended on it.

 

You would think a lot differently if you spent years putting your body through Hell and living in some type of physical pain only to have your work be questioned and knocked. Doesn't matter if it's another wrestler or some kid on the 'net saying you didn't know how to work right or flat out saying you sucked.

 

You would get offended and want to speak your mind.

[chaosrage 0]

I apologize, I thought you were still on that. Also, hell no the match was quite bad.

I think you're confusing Mike with brethart (the poster),

[Guest The Ultimate Fantasy]

"Whatever HBK is still better than both"

 

That's just opening a can of worms you really don't want to bother with...

 

I'd debate those other points but this isn't the thread for them.

Honestly I was just stating that since Flair and Hart are like night and day, a better comparison would be with HBK and if you at least look at the American independent scene, you would find there are more wrestlers who are more influenced than by HBK than Flair, making him more like Flair (because of how most modern day wrestlers talk how being influenced by Flair work).

 

Although on topic, it's kind of annoying how your childhood heroes end up looking like whining fools over a no-extinct sport.

[Guest JMA]

It's times like this that I wish I hadn't misspelled "responds." 

Sorted that for you - I never even noticed it.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Protecting his legacy in a totally worked business, mind you.

 

This is why his behavior regarding Montreal so infuriated me. How in the hell does losing a WORKED MATCH in Canada equal "humiliating you"? Is Bret such a mark for himself that he can't seperate work from shoot?

                  -=Mike

It's already been said wrestlers are marks for themselves in this worked business called professional wrestling. It's their characters and what they do in the ring that makes them money. You would be protective of how you came off on camera as well if your lively hood depended on it.

 

You would think a lot differently if you spent years putting your body through Hell and living in some type of physical pain only to have your work be questioned and knocked. Doesn't matter if it's another wrestler or some kid on the 'net saying you didn't know how to work right or flat out saying you sucked.

 

You would get offended and want to speak your mind.

Yet Jericho was wrong for speaking his mind about his KOTR match with RVD and the comments he got from "some kid on the 'net" according to many people.

[Guest Anticrombie]

I think you're confusing Mike with brethart (the poster),

 

brethart - "Shuddup, u r anoying me.

 

MikeSC - "Hmmm...the left is at it again (insert sarcastic comment), Bush/Flair 2004

 

Kinda hard to confuse them.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/...t.asp?aID=10859

 

Not sure if many had seen this, but it's the latest from the Observer site. Nothing terribly new, but some good commentary nonetheless. The final letter really weighs in on Flair, Hart and Foley.

 

Plus it is refreshing to hear Meltz' comments on the whole thing. Even though he is a Flair fanboy, he is still the most knowledgeable and sane net writer out there. He seems to think that Hart can't really touch Flair's 80s work.

 

On a sidenote, I was thinking today about Flair's reputation of being as good a worker at houseshows as he was with the camera on. Seeing that he won his first title in '81 and bailed for the WWF in '91, any guess on how many **** matches he had in that period? Anyone care to wager that it is 2 or 3 times as many as Hart had in his career?

[Promoter 0]

You seem to forget that they were doing horrible business BEFORE Russo got there. 1999, outside of the month of April, was horrible on almost every level. Russo certainly didn't help anything, but it's not like he tanked the company.

 

When you buy a company, it SHOWS that nobody in that company was drawing at all. The ONLY time Hall and Nash ever drew was in the nWo angle. As singles, they could NEVER draw people to the arena (Nash was the lowest drawing WWF Champ in history). Sting never showed any ability to draw. And Hogan didn't show one since the VERY early 1990's.

 

Flair used to be a great draw. Would you call him one today?

 

The thing is this. If Vince didn't think he could make money off the wcw in any way he would not have bought it. It had to have some kind of value for him to pick it up.

 

 

[Well, I'm ready for the inevitable flames, but here goes:

 

JBL is MUCH better than Steiner was in WCW or WWE.

 

Better in almost every possible category. Better in the ring (after Scott roided up, he lost any ability to work), MUCH better on the mic --- he just does EVERYTHING better.

The nWo would initially run roughshod, but they would give heat back to the faces. That was wcw's mistake with the nWo.

Who's to say they would? When have Hall or Nash ever put a soul over? I cannot think of one single occasion.

 

But, most people say that the Owen thing was the worst thing Ric said, yet in Bret's eyes, it was of less importance than "protecting his legacy".

 

Protecting his legacy in a totally worked business, mind you.

 

This is why his behavior regarding Montreal so infuriated me. How in the hell does losing a WORKED MATCH in Canada equal "humiliating you"? Is Bret such a mark for himself that he can't seperate work from shoot?

-=Mike

The thing is this. If Vince didn't think he could make money off the wcw in any way he would not have bought it. It had to have some kind of value for him to pick it up. There is a reason why Vince has a brand split now. He knew he could do something by having two entities running. He just botched the wcw acquisition. If someone were to tell you in 2001 that Vince would have two leagues one called raw and smackdown under the current landscape would you think that would draw? It's the same thing with the wcw name. If Vince wanted it to stick he would have. If Flair isn't any kind of draw do you think Vince would have him employed as a character in Evolution? The company must think Flair has something to bring to the table in some capacity(such as creating a four horsemen like group for the new millennium).

 

 

I thought Stiener sucked, so you get no argument from me. You miss my point however about Vince pushing non-talent hacks like they are golden talent. If he wants to shove stuff down our throats he would regardless of logic. That was my point about Vince pushing characters sometimes based on his view of their heat and not talent. He pushes he he feels to push. Hall and Nash put over the guys they were asked to in their last wwe run. Vince Mcmahon is NOT Eric Bischoff who gets handled by the talent unless it's Shawn Michaels or Triple H. You think Vince didn't remember these two almost put him out of business? Hall and Nash also knew that was their last run as well. I don't think there would have been any problems just by how they were humiliated on the shows in 2002 to put over talent. Vince had them on a short leash.

 

I still can't see how people can't see Bret refused to job to HBK instead of really anything about Montreal and Canada. I went into that whole spiel before and yes I believe Bret started it(not putting HBK as a real champ after jobbing to HBK at WM 12), but HBK told the man he would not put him over IF THINGS WERE REVERSED. Bret having reasonable creative control pulled a dick move on a guy who felt he was being a dick to Bret. I mean be human here. You show up to work one day after years of service and get stabbed in th back. Who wouldn't harp on it. I admit he talks about it a lot, but people also bring it up all the time too. Of course, he's going to try to tell his side of the story. I could only imagine what people would be saying if Hart never said anything at all to defend himself about what happened in Montreal. The top wrestlers all protect their characters because that's their business. You remember Rock squashing the Rock/Cena program for Mania 20? People attacked him for it, but I understood why he didn't want to do it. Cena was not at his level and jobbing to Cena at that point would not do any good for his character. That's how they make their money. I could see where Bret could have thought Vince was trying to sabotage his character after sticking with the company only to be told to take a hike. This does not mean I agree with his complaining through the years, but I understand it.

[chaosrage 0]

but HBK told the man he would not put him over IF THINGS WERE REVERSED

Shawn said “I appreciate that, but I want you to know that I’m not willing to do the same thing for you.” Well why would he be willing to job to Bret? Bret was on his way out to join the competition.

[Promoter 0]

but HBK told the man he would not put him over IF THINGS WERE REVERSED

Shawn said “I appreciate that, but I want you to know that I’m not willing to do the same thing for you.” Well why would he be willing to job to Bret? Bret was on his way out to join the competition.

According to Bret he stated that the plan was for Hart to go over in Montreal and then for HBK to go over in a fatal fourway the following month. I also think HBK was also referring to not doing the job back for Bret at WM 13. That's why I think this whole thing has to do with more than just Montreal in the big picture. You could look at it as Bret did the honours for him at Mania with the plan of getting back the job the following year, but HBK got out of it. Now, Bret was asked to do it again. I think Vince was just in a tough spot. There is no complete right or wrong by anyone imo. I do see why HBK might not want to job back to Bret with the way he was cutting him down during his reign as champ when he wasn't even in the company. I could also see HBK's point about Bret going into semi-retirement and waiting to see if HBK failed as champ to make his great return. I think Bret just spun the Canadian thing to cover for the fact he just did not want to job back to HBK. The two men really had some serious beef. There is another reason why I came up with this conclusion. It had to do with Bret's mindstate on OTR with Michael Landsberg after the incident. He didn't really talk about losing in Canada and doing the honours. He really was more of the mindset that how could he do the honours to someone who doesn't respect to do the same thing. He was really railing on HBK for his acting as if he didn't know what was going down. I think he just felt railroaded. That Canada stuff came up weeks later.

[Guest MikeSC]

It's already been said wrestlers are marks for themselves in this worked business called professional wrestling. It's their characters and what they do in the ring that makes them money. You would be protective of how you came off on camera as well if your lively hood depended on it.

 

You would think a lot differently if you spent years putting your body through Hell and living in some type of physical pain only to have your work be questioned and knocked. Doesn't matter if it's another wrestler or some kid on the 'net saying you didn't know how to work right or flat out saying you sucked.

 

You would get offended and want to speak your mind.

Fear, his behavior did FAR more to tarnish his image than anything else. As Flair said, how ridiculous would it be for Flair to refuse to job in FL?

 

Why Montreal? Because Bischoff was going to announce Bret's signing the following evening. Time was a bit of the essence.

 

Flair didn't say Hart sucked. Hart HAS said Flair sucked. I'm supposed to side with Bret for what reason?

According to Bret he stated that the plan was for Hart to go over in Montreal and then for HBK to go over in a fatal fourway the following month.

A few problems. EB ALLOWED Bret to stay until 12/7, allegedly. He could've EASILY changed his mind right before that and said he can't work the show. Or that he can't job.

 

As Shawn said in his shoot, it'd be retarded for him to job to a guy on the way out of the company.

I also think HBK was also referring to not doing the job back for Bret at WM 13. That's why I think this whole thing has to do with more than just Montreal in the big picture.

You're making assumptions to justify burying the guy.

The thing is this. If Vince didn't think he could make money off the wcw in any way he would not have bought it.

True. He THOUGHT they could make money. The reaction of crowds to the early WCW matches, no doubt, sobered him up nicely.

He just botched the wcw acquisition. If someone were to tell you in 2001 that Vince would have two leagues one called raw and smackdown under the current landscape would you think that would draw? It's the same thing with the wcw name.

Good money says that legally, it isn't. You don't want to piss off Viacom by giving them a totally different product than what they paid for. It's easier to say "You paid for Smackdown, you got Smackdown" then saying "You paid for Smackdown --- here's WCW". That would actually cause contractual problems.

If Flair isn't any kind of draw do you think Vince would have him employed as a character in Evolution?

Well, he LIKES Flair, for starters. And he respects him.

The company must think Flair has something to bring to the table in some capacity(such as creating a four horsemen like group for the new millennium).

Lots of guys bring something. They don't expect most of them to really put butts in the seats unless they're stuck in a position to do so. Flair is not in that position.

If he wants to shove stuff down our throats he would regardless of logic.

Steiner's behavior in WCW was enough to not warrant a mega-push in the WWE. Plus he DOES have health issues.

Hall and Nash put over the guys they were asked to in their last wwe run.

You mean the one two years ago? Hall got fired --- as most people expected --- and Nash put over his bestest buddy.

HBK told the man he would not put him over IF THINGS WERE REVERSED.

If Shawn was champ and Bret was the challenger and Bret was leaving, Shawn wouldn't have even been ASKED to do it.

 

The key thing is --- one of them was leaving. It's INCREDIBLY bad business to have the guy who is staying do the job.

 

I could mention Bret's refusal to even do the job in the 6-man match the night before.

Bret having reasonable creative control pulled a dick move on a guy who felt he was being a dick to Bret. I mean be human here. You show up to work one day after years of service and get stabbed in th back.

Being suggested you go elsewhere and make A LOT more money?

 

Man, I'd kill for that kind of treachery.

You remember Rock squashing the Rock/Cena program for Mania 20?

Nope. This is, honestly, the first time I've ever heard this mentioned anywhere.

 

And it wouldn't have made sense as they were CLEARLY building to Cena v Show since SSeries.

Cena was not at his level and jobbing to Cena at that point would not do any good for his character.

You know, he did job to Hurricane a year earlier.

-=Mike