Ric Flair agrees with me

[iggymcfly 0]

This is from a totally out-of-kayfabe interview with Off The Record on TSN. If you want, you can read the whole thing on the link here.

 

What would be the greatest match ever right now?

 

Flair said "HHH vs. HBK, it already happened." And HBK vs. Angle.

 

Yeah, I know he's somewhat friends with HHH, but I still think this has some merit. HHH/HBK at SS 2002 wasn't just a "garbage match" like so many like to suggest. When you include factors like actually making the fans care and drawing money as well as the quality of the match, it was the greatest match of our time.

 

If Flair really just wanted to include a match with HHH that didn't have "garbage selling", he could have used the Triple Threat from Mania or something, but he didn't. The man considered by many to be the greatest worker of all-time recognized that HHH/HBK was the greatest match of this time.

 

OK, I know I'm gonna get a bunch of HHHaters that dismiss this as Flair kissing HHH's ass, but I still wanted to post it, because I think it was his honest opinion.

[Papacita 0]

Are you sure he was talking about the SS 02 match? The link you posted doesn't specify.

[Guest Anticrombie]

Well, he also happens to be stroking off HBK while he's been kissing HHH's ass.

 

It might be the fact that both kliqsters have been quoted in the past of beleiving that Flair is numero uno in the wrestling industry.

 

Flair is only paying them back...

 

BTW, I own Michael's DVD so I've had the chance to watch the match numerous times (I hated it when I saw it on PPV, but I wanted to give it a chance). The match is garbage, I can't for the life of me see what anybody could've seen in that backyard wrestling match.

 

If that is the greatest match of this time, then all you guys who watch wrestling are...errr not very bright (to put it nicely). Calling that match the greatest match of this time is like calling Titanic the greatest movie of this time...

 

...Well that's not fair to Titanic, at least Titanic was visually entertaining even if it had no substance whatsoever.

[Guest Nelly's Bandaid]

Ric Flair can't wrestle anymore, therefore his opinion on current wrestling is worthless.

[Guest Dazed]

Ric Flair can't wrestle anymore, therefore his opinion on current wrestling is worthless.

 

 

Don't be ridiculous.

[Guest Nelly's Bandaid]

Nah I'm serious, if he can't put on a good match anymore I'm inclined to believe he can't recognize one.

[Guest Anticrombie]

Correction: Ric Flair is a company man and a habitual liar, therefore his opinion on wrestling is not to be taken too seriously.

 

Give it a falling out with any one of those guys and Flair will change his opinion in a heartbeat.

 

But, if you want to beleive liars, go for it.

 

He is after all, Ric Flair damnit, and that's all that needs to be said

[Guest Nelly's Bandaid]

Still, I'd be more inclined to listen to what he has to say if he looked like he himself knew what he was doing.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

This is what is called the company line. When asked who's the best in the WWF currently anyone on the payroll is required to have HHH and HBK in the answer somewhere.

[Promoter 0]

I guess all pigs lie in the same mud because Triple H was quoted on the net a few years ago about Flair being a has been. I don't think he would say that now. Atough the storyline with Triple H/Flair in September 2002 is suspect, but Flair might be too much in denial to see the wwe making fun of him at the time. Hogan saw the error of his own mocking in his Captain America get up and left.

[1234-5678 0]

I wouldn't brag about having the same opinions as a senile asshole.

[Dark Age 0]

This is from a totally out-of-kayfabe interview with Off The Record on TSN. If you want, you can read the whole thing on the link here.

 

What would be the greatest match ever right now?

 

Flair said "HHH vs. HBK, it already happened." And HBK vs. Angle.

 

Yeah, I know he's somewhat friends with HHH, but I still think this has some merit. HHH/HBK at SS 2002 wasn't just a "garbage match" like so many like to suggest. When you include factors like actually making the fans care and drawing money as well as the quality of the match, it was the greatest match of our time.

 

If Flair really just wanted to include a match with HHH that didn't have "garbage selling", he could have used the Triple Threat from Mania or something, but he didn't. The man considered by many to be the greatest worker of all-time recognized that HHH/HBK was the greatest match of this time.

 

OK, I know I'm gonna get a bunch of HHHaters that dismiss this as Flair kissing HHH's ass, but I still wanted to post it, because I think it was his honest opinion.

Ric's a hypocrite. If he thing THAT is the greatest match of our time, how can he say Mick Foley is a glorified stuntman? Foley's brawls with both men were alot more believable, told much deeper stories and were just flat out better than the Slam02 match. If he's talking about the HIAC match, same deal. If he's talking about the Raw match last year, then he hasn't seen many matches lately. Either way it's a joke. I like the TripleH/Shawn matches but they can't even compare with alot of stuff in WWE from the last few years alone.

 

HHH/HBK at SS 2002 wasn't just a "garbage match" like so many like to suggest.

 

It was an enjoyable brawl, not much more.

 

When you include factors like actually making the fans care and drawing money as well as the quality of the match, it was the greatest match of our time. 

 

Making the fans care? Don't ALOT of matches do that? If you want an example of making fans care, watch Benoit/Angle from RR. I wouldn't say it drew money. Rock/Brock was what sold SS. This can be proven by the fact that every other Triple H/Shawn match has bombed in buyrates.

 

Surely you're joking by calling it the greatest match of our time? It wasn't even the best match at SS02! And what is 'our time' anyway?

 

Iggy, do you REALLY believe that's the match Flair considers greatest of our time? Do you think that's his HONEST opinion?

[Guest ally mccoist]

Just to clarify, Landsberg said something like "Book me the greatest match ever" and Flair replied "The greatest match right now would be HHH vs HBK....and HBK vs Angle would be good as well because they havent faced each other" There was no mention of the Summerslam match.

[Guest Brian]

When you include factors like actually making the fans care and drawing money as well as the quality of the match, it was the greatest match of our time.

This applies much more to Rock/Austin.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

HBK/HHH hasn't drawn any money so far. The PPVs they've main evented alone have drawn in the .5 buyrate area. That's hardly drawing.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

I wouldn't say so. I bought SummerSlam '02 because of that match. The WWE (HHH) keeps booking this match and it got stale like after the first match.

 

I like the SS match but it seemed to go on forever and there was that stupid table spot otherwise it was a good match. The Elimination Chamber was good and WM 20 was excellent. The Royal Rumble '04 match was lame.

[iggymcfly 0]

By "our time", I pretty much meant post-Invasion; I wasn't trying to put it over Rock/Austin. The actual question to Flair referred to wrestlers that are still active today, and Rock and Austin are both pretty much retired.

 

As for Flair's comments, Flair did not say that HHH and HBK were the greatest wrestlers today, he said that they already had the greatest match you could have with today's wrestlers. I can't prove he was talking about the SS 2002 match, but I'm almost positive that he was, as that match was the only one of their feud memorable enough to be lionized in such a fashion. Also, if you actually read his comments on Foley, what he says is that his very good wrestling skills will always be overshadowed by his two big bumps off the HIAC, meaning he will be "remembered as nothing more than a glorified stuntman." Flair certainly wasn't personally dismissing Foley's career on that basis.

 

Now, back to the match, HHH/HBK was absolutely the highlight/drawing point of SS 2002. The feud had been built up perfectly to that point, it was HBK's return match, and the crowd was so into it that there was a huge hangover for the Brock/Rock match. They turned on Rock to keep themselves entertained, but Rock/Brock came off almost like HHH/Jericho from WM X-8 in that it just couldn't follow the match that came before it.

 

Just because HHH and HBK dragged on their feud a little bit too long over the next year and a half doesn't mean it wasn't perfect at that point. And yes, the actual match was at the same level. If HBK's selling broke kayfabe, it was only in the same way that any wrestler will lay on the mat for 10 seconds after taking a finisher, and still ultimately be able to kick out with the added weight of a wrestler on top of them. The crowd was completely into the match and suspended their disbelief from start to finish.

 

Finally, if you want to say that Flair's a little biased, that's one thing. But dismissing him as a senile, old asshole who knows nothing about wrestling anymore is just plain silly. He spent twenty years at the zenith of wrestling, and he's still passing that knowledge on today. Sure, he may not have the reflexes or physical skill to perform like he once did, but that doesn't mean he can't recognize a good match when he sees it.

[BHK 0]

The three bigest matches that can happen that haven't yet:

 

HBK/Rock

HBK/Angle

HHH/Brock (wait, mym meory is fuzzy. did this happen yet? I don't think so)

 

in the future: If built to properly, Cena/Orton could possibly headline WrestleMania 22.

[deancoles 0]

HHH/Brock (wait, mym meory is fuzzy. did this happen yet? I don't

They've been in tag's(Uk tour in may 2002) and Triple Threats(in Australia) and in September 2002 they had a low profile match at a house show.

 

Edit: just checked powerslam magazine and the singles match was September 6th and Brock's title was on the line.

Edited July 29, 2004 by deancoles411

[Dark Age 0]

y "our time", I pretty much meant post-Invasion; I wasn't trying to put it over Rock/Austin. The actual question to Flair referred to wrestlers that are still active today, and Rock and Austin are both pretty much retired.

 

If we're just talking about matches in terms of quality from 2002 onwards, then Angle/Benoit and Eddie/Brock both smoke any Triple H/Shawn Michaels match. The best Triple H/Shawn matches have involved Chris Benoit.

 

After reading what Flair said, it seems like he was asked what would be the best match today from any two guys ("Triple H vs Shawn Michaels, it already happened). He's wrong if he considers that the best match possible today. Shawn/Angle, Shawn/Eddie and Shawn/Rock would all be better, and I'd say Triple H/Eddie and Triple H/Brock would be better too.

 

As for Flair's comments, Flair did not say that HHH and HBK were the greatest wrestlers today, he said that they already had the greatest match you could have with today's wrestlers. I can't prove he was talking about the SS 2002 match, but I'm almost positive that he was, as that match was the only one of their feud memorable enough to be lionized in such a fashion.

 

The Raw match last year was good. I'd say he was probably talking about that more than the SS02 match, because it was straight 'wrestling'. Come to think of it, I think Flair was probably just talking about the Triple H/Shawn feud in general.

 

Also, if you actually read his comments on Foley, what he says is that his very good wrestling skills will always be overshadowed by his two big bumps off the HIAC, meaning he will be "remembered as nothing more than a glorified stuntman." Flair certainly wasn't personally dismissing Foley's career on that basis.

 

I haven't seen Flair say Foley had very good wrestling skills anyway, but regardless of that, from what I've read, Flair wants to pass Foley's career off as nothing more than being a glorified stuntman, which is wrong. If he is saying this because of the HIAC bumps, then he's misguided. Yes, Foley will be remembered for the HIAC match, but the second fall wasn't planned. Is iy Foley's fault he will be remembered for the HIAC bumps? No, so for Flair to criticize him for something THAT WASN'T PLANNED is stupid.

 

Now, back to the match, HHH/HBK was absolutely the highlight/drawing point of SS 2002. The feud had been built up perfectly to that point, it was HBK's return match, and the crowd was so into it that there was a huge hangover for the Brock/Rock match. They turned on Rock to keep themselves entertained, but Rock/Brock came off almost like HHH/Jericho from WM X-8 in that it just couldn't follow the match that came before it.

 

Rock/Brock was totally what sold SS02, IMO. That's what sold it for me, and that as the draw of the show. Triple H/Shawn seemed more like a special attraction. If you recall, Triple H/Shawn wasn't even made until 2 or 3 weeks before the show, Rock/Brock was set in stone from KOTR. What was 'perfect' about the feud? Triple H attacks Shawn, then attacks him again. He claims innocence, then admits he did it. Shawn challenges him to a match at SS. Seems like most any other feud to me, except that it was Shawn's return match. Shawn's match with RVD on Raw got poor ratings. That was his Raw return match. If people didn't tune in to see his return to free tv, why would they pay to see his return? Rock/Brock was nothing like Triple H/Jericho. H/Jericho was a heatless, dissapointing match. Rock/Brock still had a hot crowd, still had the aura about it that H/Jericho didn't have, and they still had a very good match. The atmosphere was influential at SS. Rock/Brock was a better match than Triple H/Shawn.

 

 

Just because HHH and HBK dragged on their feud a little bit too long over the next year and a half doesn't mean it wasn't perfect at that point. And yes, the actual match was at the same level. If HBK's selling broke kayfabe, it was only in the same way that any wrestler will lay on the mat for 10 seconds after taking a finisher, and still ultimately be able to kick out with the added weight of a wrestler on top of them. The crowd was completely into the match and suspended their disbelief from start to finish.

 

Kipping (or nipping, whatever the hell it is) up after having your broken back destroyed for 20 minutes is kinda unbelievable. Alot more unbelievable than most any other stuff that happens in a match.

[Vyce 0]

Flair's totally towing the company line here, for this simple reason: no iteration of HHH v. HBK can ever, nor should it, be considered the greatest match of our time.

[Guest MikeSC]

So, Flair is still Satan for talking about St. Bret and St. Mick. Got it.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

-=Mike

[Vyce 0]

So, Flair is still Satan for talking about St. Bret and St. Mick. Got it.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

-=Mike

If Flair is referring to the various "hardcore" matches or brawls that HHH & HBK have had, than the criticism offered by some in this thread is valid: Mick Foley has had better hardcore matches / brawls with HHH and HBK, respectively, than HHH & HBK have had together.

 

And yet, in Flair's mind, Foley's a "glorified stuntman" while HHH v. HBK (whichever version) is the "greatest of all time." It's a valid criticism.

[Guest MikeSC]

So, Flair is still Satan for talking about St. Bret and St. Mick. Got it.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

              -=Mike

If Flair is referring to the various "hardcore" matches or brawls that HHH & HBK have had, than the criticism offered by some in this thread is valid: Mick Foley has had better hardcore matches / brawls with HHH and HBK, respectively, than HHH & HBK have had together.

 

And yet, in Flair's mind, Foley's a "glorified stuntman" while HHH v. HBK (whichever version) is the "greatest of all time." It's a valid criticism.

He could have EASILY referred to their match on RAW from December. He could easily be referring to a match between the two that they haven't had yet.

-=Mike

[spman 0]

What is it with Flairs non stop Triple H ass kissing? In his book, he practcally gives the man a verbal fellatio. It's not like at this point in his career he has anything to lose.

[Dark Age 0]

His job?

[spman 0]

His job?

I don't think someone like Ric Flair has any problems with job security. Plus, I'm sure he's got plenty of money to fall back on.

[Guest krazykat72]

Flair's been a big fan of Michaels since the mid 90's. I *hate* when people complain about him praising him. He was doing it while in WCW and keeps doing it today.

I personally prefer a lot of the Triple H/ Michaels matches to Eddy/Brock (which while good, was overrated) and I find my opinion on HiaC actually resembles Justin Baisden more than anyone.

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

So, Flair is still Satan for talking about St. Bret and St. Mick. Got it.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

              -=Mike

If Flair is referring to the various "hardcore" matches or brawls that HHH & HBK have had, than the criticism offered by some in this thread is valid: Mick Foley has had better hardcore matches / brawls with HHH and HBK, respectively, than HHH & HBK have had together.

 

And yet, in Flair's mind, Foley's a "glorified stuntman" while HHH v. HBK (whichever version) is the "greatest of all time." It's a valid criticism.

He could have EASILY referred to their match on RAW from December. He could easily be referring to a match between the two that they haven't had yet.

-=Mike

While that match was good, it wasn't even the best match that year or even in the 2 months preceding it.

[Dark Age 0]

Brock/Benoit was better than H/Shawn.