MLB Game Chatter

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The big series is obviously the Rangers vs. Red Sox. The Cubs and Marlins are schedules, but tonight's game is already cancelled due to Hurricane Francis. Gavin Floyd makes his big league pitching debut for the Phillies tonight against the Mets.

[the max 0]

Cubs v. Marlins will likely be cancelled this weekend. Franny is a pretty big storm, and will likely be here all weekend.

 

 

I'm confident going into the Rangers v. Red Sox tonight. Pedro gets the ball tonight, he's done well in recent starts. Wakefield has me a tad worried because he got shelled last time against Texas. Schilling is coming off an excellent start against Anaheim. The offense has found itself recently, although Papi missed last night's game with a shoulder injury caused by flopping into home. I'm anticipating 2/3 from Texas, and going strong into Oakland with Arroyo/Lowe/Pedro.

[sfaJack 0]

What happens if the entire Cubs/Marlins series is cancelled this weekend? I mean, we're in September now; there isn't exactly much room in the schedule to cram in some make-up dates. The only day both teams have off is the 20th, and you can't play all three games in one day.

 

My thinking would be you'd just switch the sites for each series and play at Wrigley this weekend and at Pro Player next weekend, but I don't know how logistically possible that would be.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Quadruple-header at Wrigley Field. Baseball all through the night. Let's play four!

[Bruiser Chong 0]

If they wind up playing a pair of double-headers or something to that effect and the Cubs come out on the short end of the stick, I'll bet we can add that to the list of why the Cubs are being screwed. This is the same list that includes umpires, announcers and the media.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Speaking of the whiny Cubs, here's a pretty good article from the Sun Times today:

 

How bad has the feud between the Cubs and their TV broadcast team become? So bad I'm half expecting the Cubs to blame Steve Stone and Chip Caray for Hurricane Frances. Why not? Everything else seems to be their fault.

 

I admit to finding this little feud amusing. For instance, I chuckled when I heard about Todd Walker saying how ''pro-team'' announcers do things such as give players nicknames, and then how Caray and Stone later came up with ''Louisiana Lumberjack'' when Walker -- a Louisiana native -- came to the plate.

 

The Cubs should be focused on one thing: winning games. Instead, led by Moises Alou, with the apparent consent of Dusty Baker, they continue to gripe about their broadcasters. They think Stone and Caray, particularly Stone, are too critical of the home team and sometimes too generous in their praise of the opponent (the latter bone of contention coming from Kent Mercker).

 

 

CALLING THE SHOTS

 

 

Here is a rundown of the feud between the Cubs and their television announcing team of Chip Caray and Steve Stone:

 

July 22: After a 13-2 win over Cincinnati, Moises Alou said Caray and Stone overemphasized the value of the team's pitchers at the expense of the hitters. ''Sometimes it gets kind of old,'' Alou said. ''This team is so much pitching-oriented that sometimes it [ticks] you off. What about the rest of the game? They don't give the offense any credit.'' Stone responded: ''I don't know how much TV Moises watches during the game. But if he is watching during games, I assume that's not a good thing. We talk about hitters and their statistics every time they come to bat. We do happen to have superlative pitching. I don't know if he's noticed that.''

 

July 23: Stone, who admitted he has been negative on occasion, elaborated: ''I have said some things that haven't gone well. On the other side of the coin, I have been exceptionally positive. I have had one player -- Joe Borowski -- come up to me and say, 'I really appreciate what you said in some very trying times.' I said, 'Well, thanks.' I have had just one -- knowing that I say about 90 to 95 percent really good things about players, manager and staff.'' Stone then said he hadn't talked to Alou about the matter. ''I don't think it's my place to do that. The team should be in pursuit of one goal. Anything that diverts from that is not in the best interests of the team, and it surprises me.'' Dusty Baker seemed to side with his players: ''Sometimes you can get annoyed by what the announcers say. You're not worried about it, but you're annoyed by it. We all think we're on the same side.''

 

Aug. 27: During a contentious game against the Astros, Kent Mercker (right) called the press box to complain that Stone had been too flattering about Houston pitcher Roy Oswalt. ''I said on the air that Oswalt had done a good job for eight innings in 85-degree heat, which he did,'' Stone said. "[Mercker] disagreed is all. It was just a difference of opinion. Everything is fine with us.''

 

Aug. 29: Baker weighed in indirectly with his perspective of the growing feud, allowing that there could be some merit to the players' complaints: ''I don't think I have a team that's going to complain unjustifiably. At times it appears it's more focused on what we haven't done than what we're doing.''

 

Aug. 30: When Mike Remlinger left the dugout to shout at Houston players after Derrek Lee was hit by a pitch, Stone pointed out that none of Remlinger's teammates rushed out to grab Remlinger. Baker took exception to the observation. ''Our guys ain't on their own, bro, so don't listen to TV. Just watch it.'' Some Cubs were unhappy that Mercker's call to the press box had been leaked to the media.

 

Why are the Cubbies such big crybabies? People are starting to question their mental fortitude. Are they tough enough to win the wild card? When will they learn that Stone and Caray are not their enemies?

 

''You're taking about two veterans,'' White Sox broadcaster Ken Harrelson said. ''I love Moises Alou ... I thought it was out of character for him to do that. I think, in retrospect, when all this settles down, if he looks back on it, you'll find out that he might even apologize to these guys. But to sit there and hinge on what announcers are saying during a pennant chase. ... First of all, you ought to have your [rear end] on the bench rooting your teammates home, not sitting in a clubhouse somewhere watching on TV when they're out there busting their [rear ends] trying to win a game. That's bull[bleep]. If [Mercker] would have had his [rear end] in the right place, he'd have never heard [stone praising Astros pitcher Roy Oswalt's performance].''

 

We are not privy to Baker's private talks with his team. But publicly, he has taken his players' side in this battle. ''I don't think I have a team that's going to complain unjustifiably,'' Baker said Aug. 29. ''At times it appears [stone and Caray] are more focused on what we haven't done than what we're doing.''

 

The next day Baker suggested people turn the volume off on their TV. During a subsequent broadcast, Stone and Caray referred obliquely to Baker's comment.

 

''Steve and Chip were talking about turning the volume off, having some fun with it,'' said John McDonough, the Cubs' senior vice president for marketing and broadcasting, who doesn't seem overly concerned about the situation.

 

Having never witnessed a sideshow quite like this one, I asked McDonough on Thursday if he has. He recalled that Harry Caray had a few celebrated feuds with players in his pre-Cubs days. But with the Cubs, Harry was too popular and too identified with the Cubs brand for players to complain about him, no matter what he said. Apparently Stone and Chip Caray haven't reached Harry Caray status in players' eyes. Or perhaps this particular Cubs team is simply overly sensitive.

 

''I think it's strictly interpretation by the players,'' McDonough said. ''It's not my place to say the players are being hypersensitive. I'm not in their shoes. I would never criticize the players. But I can tell you our fan base has great admiration for Steve. He's a brilliant analyst. He's insightful, he's articulate, and at times he seems clairvoyant. He's extremely highly regarded by our fans.''

 

Reached Thursday in Chicago, Stone preferred not to discuss the subject.

 

''Truly, Chip and I are just two lovable fuzzballs,'' he said, adding, ''When you go through hard times, it's most important to have the backing of top management. I know Chip and I have the backing.''

 

Only two players, Thurman Munson and Kent Hrbek, ever have complained to Harrelson about something he said during his broadcast career, which began in 1975.

 

''First of all, as an announcer, we have a job to do,'' Harrelson said. ''And to tell you the truth, I really don't care what the players think. I would hope that they have enough respect for me to know I have enough respect for the game that they're playing. And I understand how hard the game is because I played it. But I can't worry about what they say. ... All Sox fans know that D.J. [Darrin Jackson] and I, we don't gild a lily, but again we don't harp on something. We give the fans credit for knowing what the hell is going on because they're watching the same thing we are.''

 

Alou's base-running mistakes. Oswalt pitching credibly on a hot, humid day. Slumping bats. Pitchers losing control. Cubs fans have seen it all. They know what the heck is going on. What do the players expect Stone and Caray to do, lie?

 

''If [stone and Caray] had been saying exactly the same thing and the Cubs were in first place, nothing would have been said,'' Harrelson said.

 

Former Sox star Bill Melton understands why players might take umbrage at a broadcaster's comments. He played for the Sox during Harry Caray's days on the South Side and believes Caray treated him very unfairly. Theirs was a celebrated feud. For Melton, the last straw came when his young kids were booed at Comiskey Park during a father-son game after Caray had been ripping him on the air for months. Afterward, Melton asked the Sox to trade him.

 

''I don't think that's what is happening with [the Cubs],'' said Melton, a pregame and postgame analyst for the Sox. ''But I can see why players might lash out, I really can. Whether it's the pressure or what, I'm not surprised by it.''

 

The Cubs know pressure. They've felt it all season; that much is certain. But have they learned to deal with it? That's still uncertain.

 

''Expectations were ratcheted so high,'' McDonough said. ''This is the first time in recent history that the Cubs were picked to win the World Series. Along the way, things have a tendency to get blown out of proportion. But hopefully, all these things are behind us and everyone is occupied with what's happening on the field. We would love to see a wonderful synchronicity with everybody.''

The calling the shots portion is a real eye-opener as to how unfocused this team has really become in the last two months. While the Cards continue to execute all the small things every night despite having the division more or less locked up since July, the Cubs are calling the god damn announcers' booth DURING the game to complain about the announcers complimenting an opposing player. Gimmie a break.

[Mik 0]

FYI, it's impossible for the Marlins/Cubs to switch sites for the series. Dolphins have a home game next weekend, so it can not be in Miami. I am really hoping they can get some games played, however.

 

PS: Hello.

[the max 0]

I bring into question the motives of the Cubs players. I think they're looking to blame somebody for the fact that they've been underachieving all season. I don't tend to watch many Cubs games, but from what I remember of Stone/Caray, they're both good announcers with no hidden agenda. I think Alou takes himself WAY too seriously, Remlinger needs to take his head out of his ass, and Baker needs to tell his players "Look, who fucking CARES what the announcers are saying?! WE SHOULD BE IN CONTENTION FOR THE DIVISION!"

 

Look at other teams and their relationship with the announcers. I watch mostly NESN and their main announce team is Orsello/Remy. They praise opposing players for good plays, good performances, as well as poke a little bit of fun at Red Sox players. For instance, Remy brought up Manny hitting well in the month of August and Orsillo chimed in "Do you think Manny even knows what month it is? Or if Nomar's gone?" When last I checked, Manny didn't have a hissy fit and call into the booth to rip the announcers. He went out and did his job.

 

Alou is being paid 9.5 million dollars this season and he's acting like a fucking two year old. The Cubs would be smart to rid themselves of him in the off-season, which will likely be sooner for them, because I don't think a team this unfocused on baseball will be successful come stretch time.

[Guest Staravenger]

Yankee commentators (Kaat and Singleton usually) always put over the other teams players too. I don't know why the Cubs think it's uncommon, but it's not.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season. They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane. Sosa needs to go, too and I think that'll be the case, but not until after next season. Regardless, I don't see the attitude of the team really changing as long as Dusty is leading the ship. As you know, the team often takes after the attitude of the manager. Not a good sign for the Cubbies.

 

And Mik returning just in time for the home stretch of the season where the Marlins have just gotten back in contention a coincidence? I think not.

[sfaJack 0]

Interesting column Bruiser posted.

 

You'd think the Cubs would be more worried about silly things like making fewer stupid outs on the basepaths and playing tighter defense, but I guess those things should take a back seat to getting your feelings hurt by the big, mean announcers. I can see why Dusty is one of the famed "players' managers" though, since he actually defends their petty bullshit with the announcers.

 

I can't wait to see who gets the blame if the Cubs lose the wild card. It'll probably be hurricane Francis's fault.

[strummer 0]

As far as announcers, there is no worse homer than Skip Carey of the Braves. This guy goes out of his way to make fun of the other team's players. He never says anything remotely negative about the Braves and uses terms like "We won" We're Playing well" .His father and his son are MUCH better announcers than he is. Pete Van Wieren is tremendous IMO, calls it down the middle, praises the other team, criticizes the Braves, etc., he is the anti-Skip Carey.

 

Michael Kay finishes a close second behind Carey, but he will occassionally praise the other team, but often makes excuses if the Yankees lose, like they had no travel day or they played an "emotional rollercoaster" the night before .

 

As far as announcer/team feuds. Davey Johnson got Howie Rose fired from WFAN because he didn't like his criticism of the team. Rose went to cover Hockey before finally returning to the Mets in 1996

 

Bobby Valentine got Tim McCarver fired in 98 from WROW because McCarver did not like Bobby's "unique" managerial style.

 

Hopefully someone can get Ted Robinson fired, but that is just my wishful thinking

[Mik 0]

And Mik returning just in time for the home stretch of the season where the Marlins have just gotten back in contention a coincidence? I think not.

Haha.

 

For the record, although I did give up on TSM for a bit, I never gave up on the Marlins this season. There have been many times when it's been easy to do so. The streak where they got swept twice in two weeks by the Pirates, with a series loss to the Expos sandwiched between was one, and also about a week and a half ago when they were 7 games out.

 

I just kept telling myself the same things most fans do...well, if they sweep this series and then this series, they will be back into it. I realized it was improbable, but what do you know? That's what happened.

 

Unfortunate what happened to the Phillies this season. How is this for bad luck? I was in Philadelphia to witness first hand the only game the Marlins lost to the Phillies this season. Just my luck.

 

Good to be back.

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season. They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane.

George has his sites set on Beltran. Whatever they can may not be enough.

[sfaJack 0]

As far as announcers, there is no worse homer than Skip Carey of the Braves.

You've never heard Milo Hamilton call an Astros' game, have you?

[Guest Anglesault]

As far as announcers, there is no worse homer than Skip Carey of the Braves.

You've never heard Milo Hamilton call an Astros' game, have you?

The White Sox announcers are brutal as well.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season.  They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane.

George has his sites set on Beltran. Whatever they can may not be enough.

Yeah, wouldn't want to go find some pitching since yours is so top notch and the single reason the Yanks will be getting into the playoffs.

[cabbageboy 0]

Okay, to chime in on Caray and Stone. I personally LIKE the fact that they sometimes put over the other team and trash the Cubs. I mean, when Alou gets picked off or something, that's a DUMBSHIT thing to do, and deserving of badmouthing by the announcers. When Farnsworth blows a 4 run lead he deserves to be trashed by Steve Stone.

 

Watching a White Sox game is like torture, given the fact that 1. I don't like the White Sox and 2. Their announcers are the biggest homers I've ever seen. An announcer shouldn't constantly root for his home team. Maybe subtle stuff, but not outright cheering on a home run by his team ("You can put it on the boooooaaard, yes!").

 

I wonder if the Cubs ever realized that Caray and Stone are possibly as frustrated with the team as most of the fans are?

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season.  They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane.

George has his sites set on Beltran. Whatever they can may not be enough.

Yeah, wouldn't want to go find some pitching since yours is so top notch and the single reason the Yanks will be getting into the playoffs.

We can do both.

 

Clement, Pavano and Beltran.

 

Problems solved.

[Mik 0]

Well, for what it's worth, Pavano very much wants to stay in Florida, and if he keeps winning and actually wins himself into the Cy Young, the Marlins wouldn't let him get away.

[strummer 0]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season.  They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane.

George has his sites set on Beltran. Whatever they can may not be enough.

Yeah, wouldn't want to go find some pitching since yours is so top notch and the single reason the Yanks will be getting into the playoffs.

We can do both.

 

Clement, Pavano and Beltran.

 

Problems solved.

True AS, but the Yankees have always had trouble with bringing NL pitchers to Yankee Stadium.

 

Ed Whitson, Andy Hawkins, Terry Mulholland, Rick Rhoden, Vasquez (to an extent), Leiber (also to an extent), even Lee Smith

 

They have had much more success staying within the AL

 

Key, Abbot, Mussina, Clemens, Wells, Cone

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, for what it's worth, Pavano very much wants to stay in Florida,

And has also mentioned how he wouldn't mind playing for either New York Team.

 

Obviously, the Mets would fuck the whole thing up and somehow end up with Loaiza, so that leaves the Yankees.

 

the Marlins wouldn't let him get away.

 

Cha-CHING.

[Mik 0]

I see what you mean, he would command a big pay day. But the stadium is looking more and more like it's going to be a reality and the Marlins are actually going to start making money. The local papers are saying they might not cut payroll at all, in fact increase it a bit.

 

They are going to pay LoDuca to stay and want Pavano too.

 

I know people don't believe the whole argument about a new stadium automatically makes a team better, but with the Marlins it is different. Wayne Huizenga still makes more money off the Marlins then Loria due to the stadium lease. He gets all the luxury box money and I believe all of the parking, which is why the Marlins are losing so much money. New stadium is likely to open in 2007 and the Marlins are in the process of setting a new spending limit.

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season.  They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane.

George has his sites set on Beltran. Whatever they can may not be enough.

Yeah, wouldn't want to go find some pitching since yours is so top notch and the single reason the Yanks will be getting into the playoffs.

We can do both.

 

Clement, Pavano and Beltran.

 

Problems solved.

True AS, but the Yankees have always had trouble with bringing NL pitchers to Yankee Stadium.

 

Ed Whitson, Andy Hawkins, Terry Mulholland, Rick Rhoden, Vasquez (to an extent), Leiber (also to an extent), even Lee Smith

 

They have had much more success staying within the AL

 

Key, Abbot, Mussina, Clemens, Wells, Cone

They've had their share of opposite as well. Rogers, Weaver.

 

It should also be noted that Vazquez and Lieber are much better pitchers at Yankee Stadium than on the road.

 

Also, Jon is coming off sugery (and improving every start), Javy may be hurt.

 

BTW, we have had decent success with NL relievers.

Edited September 3, 2004 by Anglesault

[Guest Anglesault]

I see what you mean, he would command a big pay day. But the stadium is looking more and more like it's going to be a reality and the Marlins are actually going to start making money. The local papers are saying they might not cut payroll at all, in fact increase it a bit.

Not necessarily that the Marlins won't pay him, but that that they'd be getting into a bidding war with george.

[Mik 0]

Which, of course, they can't win.

 

And in that regard, you're right. I certainly hope that doesn't happen.

[Guest Sylvan Grenier]

I don't think there's any question that Alou is gone after this season.  They'll probably do whatever they can to ink Beltran to a deal and I think he'd be nuts not to, since his numbers at Wrigley are just insane.

George has his sites set on Beltran. Whatever they can may not be enough.

Yeah, wouldn't want to go find some pitching since yours is so top notch and the single reason the Yanks will be getting into the playoffs.

We can do both.

 

Clement, Pavano and Beltran.

 

Problems solved.

You think Beltran is gonna turn down playing half his season at Wrigley Field? This guy hits balls over the bleachers and into the streets when the wind is blowing in. I think he'd take a teensy little pay cut in return for completely dominating at home. Since I don't think anyone in the organization is too excited about hanging on to Moises Alou anymore, I'll bet the Tribune will put up a fight with Steinbrenner if needed. As for Clement, he's staying too. He's too close with Kerry Wood and Mark Prior, and like I said, he draws his power from the chin. Take that away from him and you've gotta worry about potentially another Esteban Loaiza. Is it worth the risk?

[sfaJack 0]

If Matt Clement continues to pitch like he has for the past month, he can take his chin and leave town.

[Guest Anglesault]

His numbers at Yankee Stadium are pretty damn good themself.

 

 

As for Clement, he's staying too. He's too close with Kerry Wood and Mark Prior

 

::Ted DiBiase cackle.::

 

Everybody has a price.

 

Some might cost a little...some might cost alot. But if George has his way, you WILL be bought.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Yeah and if George had his way, there wouldn't be a pennant race in the AL East this late in the season. Your point? Just because Georgy wants it, doesn't mean he'll get it.