Big Buffyverse Episode Torunament

[Guest Brian]

Big round, as we're nearing the quarterfinals. I'm going with the a four-day length, ending on Thurday at midnight est.

 

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Hush (4.10)

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Shells* (5.16)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

Amends (3.10)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

Smile Time* (5.14)

[Guest Brian]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

Salvage* (4.13)

 

Thoughts forthcoming.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

Spin the Bottle* (4.06) - It's a shame that Spin the Bottle has to go into the Quarters, because while it is a really good episode, it is not in the top 16. Graduation Day, however, must be stopped.

 

Hush (4.10) - I don't think Hush can compare with the work Whedon has done after it, but it should get points for really getting the ball rolling on his more in-depth gimmick work.

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22) - It's the powerhouse of the tournament, and really should go all the way. Shells was a top 16er, IMO, and its death will only add to NFA's power.

Shells* (5.16)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22) - At the time, this was a total mind-fuck and I never saw it coming. Buffy losing everything and leaving home, it was revolutionary - it defied every conception I knew. Amends I don't get. Maybe its because I haven't seen it in a really long time, but fuck it, its another one of those episodes that gets unwarranted reception.

Amends (3.10)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12) - this is another "Rudo makes his stance" things. C'mon guys, the vast majority of Buffy Season 2 episodes were fucking play school compared to what they did after it.

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

The Gift (5.22) - The Gift is the pinnacle of Whedon and Cos. storytelling ability, however AHITW had much more emotional depth. AHITW is a top tener fer sher, but its losing to a top 3.

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

Passion (2.17) - HOW THE FUCK HAS ORPEHUS GOTTEN THIS FAR. Out of all the bad choices, this -i think- takes the cake. I'd strain to call Orpheus "good" let alone a top 32 episode, and especially not a top 16 and if it makes it into the top 8 I will quit this board. I hope Passion doesn't make it past the next round.

 

Salvage* (4.13) - This is one of those episodes that I'm excited to revist whenever I get the chance to revisit it. Smile Time was a gimmick episode that didn't have the depth that other, better, episodes had.

Smile Time* (5.14)

[Crowe 0]

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Hush (4.10)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[BlackFlagg 0]

Bracket A:

 

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Hush (4.10)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Bracket D:

 

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Vanhalen 0]

Why all the hate for Graduation Day Part 2, for me personally thats one of my favourite episodes of all the series

[Anya 0]

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Hush (4.10)

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Shells* (5.16)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

Amends (3.10)

 

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

The Gift (5.22)

 

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

Smile Time* (5.14)

 

 

 

What is up with the love for early Buffy?

[Mole 0]

Ugh, my two favorite episodes are gone.

 

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Bracket D:

 

Passion (2.17)

Salvage* (4.13)

[Anakin Flair 0]

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

 

 

Hush (4.10)

 

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

 

Bracket C:

 

 

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)---TIE (Bot episodes had me in tears, I can't call a clear winner here)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

 

Smile Time* (5.14)

[Guest reek]

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

Hush (4.10)

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Amends (3.10)

 

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

Salvage* (4.13)

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

It really sucks to vote against Hush and A Hole in the World, but I guess it has to be done in the later rounds.

 

 

Bracket A:

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

Bracket B:

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

The Gift (5.22)

 

Bracket D:

Passion (2.17)

Smile Time* (5.14)

[Jingus 0]

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

Spin the Bottle is almost like a Version 2.0 of Tabula Rasa: they got rid of all the crap that weighed down the idea the first time, so that they could really have fun with the amnesiac Angellites. I realized that I'd made my choice when I thought of the main featured special effect in both episodes. In GDP2, it was a REALLY crappy-looking giant snake; in StB, it was Angel "discovering" his ability to morph into a vamp, and just playing with it for like a minute straight. No question.

 

Hush (4.10)

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

Don't get me wrong: Hush is a damn good episode... but I wouldn't say it's even the best one of its season, and I think it gets too much praise at times. On the other hand, Becoming P1 killed off Kendra. Now THAT is giving the audience what they want.

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

Shells* (5.16)

Like it's even a question. NFA is so damned good it pisses from a great height onto 99% of the rest of the Buffyverse.

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

Amends (3.10)

Probably the best season finale on Buffy goes against... the introduction of the all-time lamest Big Bad? Yech. "Close your eyes..." > anything in Amends.

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

What are these two doing in the top 16? Both are good eps, but there's much better out there. Neither the Judge nor Tattooed Lindsay were exactly all-time great villains.

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

The Gift (5.22)

A tough choice, but I gotta go with Buffy sacrificing herself instead of Team Angel sacrificing Fred.

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

Passion (2.17)

Orpheus is, at best, a cutesy crossover episode with some funny lines. (True, Season 4 badly needed one of those by that point, but still.) On the other hand, Passion was maybe the first episode of Buffy that grabbed you by the throat, slapped you across the face, and MADE you care about the characters on that show. Yeah, Angellus has done a lot of cold shit over the years, but whenever any character is droning on about his most vicious crimes, him coldly snapping Jenny Callender's neck is the one that always comes to mind.

 

Salvage* (4.13)

Smile Time* (5.14)

What the fuck are either one of these two doing here? The Body, Once More With Feeling, and Apocalypse Nowish are all out, but fucking Smile Time is still in competition? Fuck that. I go with Salvage just cuz it at least had some cooler villains.

 

 

A final thought or two about Buffy's Season 2. Some are wondering why people like it so much. I'll explain as best I can: simply put, the moment that Angel lost his soul was the moment that everything changed for all the people involved. Nothing like that had happened on the show prior to that; let's face it, Season 1 and the first half of Season 2 weren't all that different from Xena or Charmed in terms of overall depth or quality. And then, out of nowhere, the rules all change; we find out that the writers are more than willing to turn a good person bad, or to kill off a major character, or to (most shocking of all) give us an unhappy ending for a season finale. It doesn't hurt that Angellus was one of the most sickeningly vicious villains I've ever seen in any fictional medium, featuring the best acting David Boreanaz has ever done; even Angellus's return in Angel Season 4 was a pale shadow of his work in BS2. Hell, most of Season 3 was spent just dealing with the fallout from 2. In short, the last few episodes of Season 2 were what took a fairly average action-adventure show and elevated it into the classic which we know today.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

 

Hush (4.10)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15) I'm with Naitch, this is too close. No matter what choice I make

The Gift (5.22)I'll feel like it's the wrong one

 

Bracket D:

 

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Molotov The Bear 0]

Bracket A:

 

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Hush (4.10)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

 

Bracket D:

 

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Tawren 0]

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

 

Hush (4.10)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

[Guest croweater]

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

 

Hush (4.10) (this vote really hurt)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

Bracket C:

 

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

The Gift (5.22) (As much as I liked AHITW It didn't make me cry like a little baby and doesn't have the repeat viewing tingle that The Gift has.)

 

Bracket D:

 

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

 

Overall it sadens me to see my personal favourite episodes not here. But I guess that's only my opinion and I can't expect everyone to have the same tastes as me. I didn't really understand all the hate (or lack of love) for Buffy seasons 7 and 6. I thought 7 was fantastic and I would have loved to see "Lies my parents told me" make it further. I guess the amount of Angel fans somehow outweighs the amount of Buffy fans, or Angel has better stand alone episodes than Buffy, because I think in comparison of story archs and overall quality Buffy wins hands down.

[Anya 0]

S6 is one of the best for both shows. Great main theme, good arcs for every character. Good stand alone eps. Also has the best big bad. Bargaining, Life Serial, OMWF, Tabula Rasa, Double Meat Palace, Hells Bells and the final eps are all really good.

 

I like S7 more now than I did when it first aired. I've gotten over a lot of the problems over time. I still hate how a lot of the scoobs act though. Sefless and Storyteller are top tier eps. The season also has a really good big bad and mini-bad. Chosen both makes me really happy and extremely depressed. The big thing I hate about S7 is that all the scoobs became basically minions for Buffy. It used to be everyone had a story and a role. In S7 it's The Buffy & Spike Show while everyone else just kinda stands around. Xanya had been the longest running, most stable relationship in the franchise and it got like 3 eps worth of material the whole year, mostly just thanks to Jane Espenson being a Xanya shipper. Not enough gimmick eps either. Gimmick eps are a must.

 

 

Everyone here is mostly biased towards Angel. They're crazy.

[Guest Brian]

Ehh, I've been rerunning the numbers through excel and they say differently in terms of bias. Buffy has three of the top four overall vote getters. If NFA wasn't such a goliath, this tourney could be a wash for Angel.

[Guest Brian]

And can people who voted for Orpheus last round tell me why they put it over "Home"? I don't get that.

[Guest Brian]

Just a little over 24 hours left if there's any stragglers around.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22)

 

Hush (4.10)

 

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22)

 

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12)

 

The Gift (5.22)

 

 

Bracket D:

 

Passion (2.17)

 

Smile Time* (5.14)

 

(I'm absolutely baffled by the love of Salvage over Smile Time, which is a classic, and much much more than a gimmick episode. reminded me of DS9's In the Cards, another underrated classic)

[Guest Brian]

Smile Time just doesn't have the depth of Salvage beyond the humor. Salvage is spot-on an awesome episode, and that's not to say Smile Time isn't very good. Salvage has the great Wes/Lilah interaction about what is love, the Faith/Wes stuff (breaking out of jail was a big mark-out moment), Faith and the gang, Angellus toying with Faith and playing everyone, and the death of the Beast.

 

FAITH

(looks out the window) I'm not gonna kill him, Wesley. Angelus. (shakes her head) I don't care what you thought you sprung me for. Angel's the only one in my life who's never given up on me. There's no way I'm giving up on—

 

WESLEY

I know. That's why it had to be you.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And can people who voted for Orpheus last round tell me why they put it over "Home"? I don't get that.

Orpheus had two things that I hate in it:

 

"Inside their mind"

 

and

 

Willow

 

It was fun seeing _Fred_ interact with Willow, but that was the extent of her use on the show for me. As for the "Inside.." thing, I can never wrap my mind around it (no pun). I can believe a lot, but I just can't believe that. It's so fucking retarded.

 

Meanwhile, Home was amazing. Number 1, it concluded the Connor Saga in like the greatest way they've ever resolved a storyline... EVER. It just worked so well. Two, it had the last appearance of Lilah. Excuse me... LILAH~!. Three, It set up the best Angel season in Season 5 as-well-as some of its themes and did it smoothly, IMO. Plus it was so refreshing after all the drama in Season 4. In that one episode they totally changed the pace and the feel of Angel. Wes trying to destroy Lilahs contract, Gunn in the white room, Fred with the machine gun, Lorne in the limo, Angel outside the house - all of these images let an impression and foreshadowed the next season.

[Guest Brian]

Not just the Connor saga, but all these family and love themes that they had touched upon. Plus, it had the hero speech again.

 

I like Orpheus, and I always thought the in the head thing was important because you had to realize that Angellus was always there, just like Angel was in Angellus.

[Guest Paulster]

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22) - For some reason, I never could get into "Spin the Bottle". It had it's moments and all, but I think it's overrated.

Spin the Bottle* (4.06)

 

Hush (4.10) - One of my favorite 'gimmick' episodes

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21)

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22) - My favorite series finale for any show ever. Plus my favorite Angel episode, so this is probably my favorite TV episode EVER. I really hope it wins.

Shells* (5.16)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22) - I liked everything about this episode, and it just helps to set up so much for future seasons.

Amends (3.10)

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12) - I really did like "Innocence", but "You're Welcome" just had that awesome bittersweet taste, plus Lindsay coming back = BONUS.

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14)

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15)

The Gift (5.22) - Does it ever suck to vote against "A Hole in the World". This is my pick for best Buffy episode.

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15) - From what I can pick up, you either love this episode or hate it. I love it.

Passion (2.17)

 

Salvage* (4.13)

Smile Time* (5.14) - My favorite gimmick episode. Puppet Angel could carry his own series.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Smile Time just doesn't have the depth of Salvage beyond the humor. Salvage is spot-on an awesome episode, and that's not to say Smile Time isn't very good. Salvage has the great Wes/Lilah interaction about what is love, the Faith/Wes stuff (breaking out of jail was a big mark-out moment), Faith and the gang, Angellus toying with Faith and playing everyone, and the death of the Beast.

 

..... whoops. I kept reading Salvage's episode number as being season 5 and not 4. I thought it was the episode where Angel and Spike are on the submarine underwater during WW2!

 

Ooookay. Now it suddenly doesn't seem so "baffling"

 

But I still love smile time so my vote will stay for that.

[Guest Brian]

Results for Round 4:

 

Bracket A:

 

Graduation Day, Part 2 (3.22) 8

Spin the Bottle* (4.06) 8

 

(note: Spin the Bottle won as a result of two of the tiebreakers, having more total votes and more votes the last round. Graduation Day had a higher seed.)

 

Hush (4.10) 12

Becoming, Part 1 (2.21) 4

 

Bracket B:

 

Not Fade Away* (5.22) 16

Shells* (5.16)

 

Becoming, Part 2 (2.22) 15

Amends (3.10) 1

 

Bracket C:

 

You’re Welcome* (5.12) 10

Innocence, Part 2 (2.14) 6

 

A Hole in the World* (5.15) 4

The Gift (5.22) 12

 

Bracket D:

 

Orpheus* (4.15) 6

Passion (2.17) 10

 

Salvage* (4.13) 11

Smile Time* (5.14) 5

 

Next round up soon.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Has Not Fade Away had a single vote against it?

[Guest Brian]

It has one vote against it up until this round.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Who the fuck voted against it? Mole? Was it Mole? Ban him. You have the power. Let's have a MoleyBan.