Guest INXS Report post Posted September 30, 2004 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3700480.stm A senior Italian politician says he believes a ransom of $1m or more was paid for the release of two female Italian aid workers kidnapped in Iraq. Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said no money had been paid but MP Gustavo Selva described the denial as purely "official". The two Italians and four Egyptians also freed arrived home on Wednesday. British hostage Ken Bigley has made a new appeal for his own release in a video shown by an Arabic TV station. Squatting down in a cage and dressed in an orange jumpsuit, Mr Bigley said his captors did not want to kill him, and he accused UK Prime Minister Tony Blair of "lying". Tawhid and Jihad, the hardline group which seized Mr Bigley nearly two weeks ago, earlier beheaded two Americans kidnapped with him. 'Difficult choice' Allegations of an Italian ransom, first made in a Kuwaiti newspaper, have been widely reported in Italy. It's difficult to know where to go on this one - obviously by giving the hostage takers a million it's funding them to buy weapons and increase logistics as well as sending a message to other groups that hostage taking can be profitable. Which is bad. On the other hand, the two Italian ladies are safe and free. Which is good. So, is it okay to pay the hostage takers for the release of hostages? Should we (The US and UK) be using these tactics to get our guys free? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 It's difficult to know where to go on this one - obviously by giving the hostage takers a million it's funding them to buy weapons and increase logistics as well as sending a message to other groups that hostage taking can be profitable. Which is bad. On the other hand, the two Italian ladies are safe and free. Which is good. The ladies are cursed. That's bad. But they come with your free choice of topping! That's good. Anyway, no there should be NO negotiating with terrorists, and we sure as hell should not be funding them. 2 people are safe, but that 1 million could fund the death of untold hundreds others... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 *Goes to kidnap some Canadians in his search to become a millionare without working* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 *Goes to kidnap some Canadians in his search to become a millionare without working* Trying to avoid work, eh, hippie? with apologies to kkktookmybabyaway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbacon 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Anyway, no there should be NO negotiating with terrorists, and we sure as hell should not be funding them. Sadly, this isn't likely to change Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest INXS Report post Posted September 30, 2004 It's a bad call to fund them but in Italy's case, perhaps they made the right choice for them - seeing as they are not targets of terrorists. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Yet.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Anyway, no there should be NO negotiating with terrorists, and we sure as hell should not be funding them. Sadly, this isn't likely to change Do you know how impressive it is to have the stupidest post in a thread that includes INXS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Renegade 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 The ladies are cursed. That's bad. But they come with your free choice of topping! That's good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Si82 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Anyway, no there should be NO negotiating with terrorists, and we sure as hell should not be funding them. 2 people are safe, but that 1 million could fund the death of untold hundreds others... I totally agree. You can't just start giving in to terrorist demands. It sends out a message that they can do this and get away with it complete with funding for more terrorist acts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 *Goes to kidnap some Canadians in his search to become a millionare without working* You're going to have to kidnap a bunch of them if you want to be a millionaire in U.S. dollars... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CheesalaIsGood 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 I am very glad the two women are still alive. Sucks, we'll lose some points against the terrorists. It's just cool to hear a story related to the war where somebody comes out alive at the end of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted September 30, 2004 It's a bad call to fund them but in Italy's case, perhaps they made the right choice for them - seeing as they are not targets of terrorists. Well, they did KIDNAP 2 italian women, didn't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Why don't we negotiate a deal, and then give them a bomb in a suitcase instead of money? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CheesalaIsGood 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Well now they have money for a down payment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbacon 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Anyway, no there should be NO negotiating with terrorists, and we sure as hell should not be funding them. Sadly, this isn't likely to change Do you know how impressive it is to have the stupidest post in a thread that includes INXS? Instead of taking shots why don't you actually say something. Is it stupid to believe that future terrorists won't be aided? Or that it's a good idea? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Terrible, terrible idea. I can't believe Italy is so cowardly, spineless, and stupid as to not only negotiate with terrorists, but then give them a large sum of money. If they don't have the heart for this war, they should get out of it and leave the fight to those who can take the heat. Bloody chickenshit country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hogan Made Wrestling 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Paying cash is a really bad idea because it will probably lead to a rash of kidnappings by mercenaries and thugs that have nothing to do with the war but are just looking for a quick payday like any slimeball in the States who kidnaps a 5 year old then holds her up for ransom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 You know, it's amazing that after all of those centuries of bloody and violent wars and conflicts, Europe has become the haven for the biggest pussies on the fucking planet. This was NOT the right choice to make, INXS, no matter if it saved two lives. Yeah! Two lives got saved, and the terrorists have the money now to purchase weapons to kill a few hundred or thousand more! LET'S THROW A FUCKING PARADE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smues Report post Posted September 30, 2004 This is like on all those TV shows and movies where the captain of ship is super noble and blah blah blah and won't sacrifice 1 life to save 5,000. Sure it's great the 2 ladies are safe, but you do NOT give terrorists money. You do NOT negoiate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2004 It's difficult to know where to go on this one - obviously by giving the hostage takers a million it's funding them to buy weapons and increase logistics as well as sending a message to other groups that hostage taking can be profitable. Which is bad. No, it's actually pretty damned easy. You give them money for hostages this time --- what happens next time? Are they going to be able to say "no"? Obviously not. That's just retarded. So, they'll have to pay next time --- and rest assured, there will be a next time. And, likely, there will be MORE people, since this is a low-risk way for the thugs to make lots of money with minimal work. Italy screwed up royally doing this --- but European cowardice is one of the few things you can bank on. On the other hand, the two Italian ladies are safe and free. Which is good. Which only sacrifices MORE lives in the future. So, is it okay to pay the hostage takers for the release of hostages? Should we (The US and UK) be using these tactics to get our guys free? No. Absolutely not. You'll just make the suffering worse in the future to deal with the cowardice you feel today. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted September 30, 2004 So, is it okay to pay the hostage takers for the release of hostages? Should we (The US and UK) be using these tactics to get our guys free? How can you type this without feeling dumb? Okay, they saved two women. You realize that now they know that Italy can be bought, right? Everyone EXCEPT you seems to understand that appeasement doesn't work with terrorists. The last time that was tried on a large scale was when a terrorist ran a country and kicked the crap out of Europe, and know you want to do it for folks that kidnap just anyone and hold them up for money? Excuse me. I'm going to go watch something on PAX. It'll kill fewer braincells. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Bah, I'm quite irritated by this whole thing. I know European countries are dickless and cowardly, but goddamn, this just takes it to another level. Fuck it, let's drop a few bombs on Italy and make them pay for us to stop. It's good for the economy, after all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Bah, I'm quite irritated by this whole thing. I know European countries are dickless and cowardly, but goddamn, this just takes it to another level. Fuck it, let's drop a few bombs on Italy and make them pay for us to stop. It's good for the economy, after all... Hell, next time an Italian gets kidnapped and the terrorists demand the freeing of a prisoner, I say we kill the prisoner on Arab TV and tell them to fuck themselves. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sass 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 Italy has not had much luck in hostage situations and there's been a prescedent set going back over 30 years. During the 70's, one of their top officials was taken hostage and later found murdered after the country thought it had a deal with the hostage holders. It also doesn't help that Italy's government is not on the same page since there is, literally, a party for *everything* in the country. In America, people complain about only having two major parties and not enough other ones to chooce from. In Italy, people complain about having too many parties. This has done the country no good during the last 40 years and is why many people in power over there (and not in power) would rather meet the demands rather than wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, for something that will never happen. Nothing gets done over there most of the time politically. It's like filibuster hell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2004 From my limited knowledge of Italian gov't, haven't they had a borderline comic number of governments? I remember during my Nazism and Fascism course in college (shockingly, not a happy class) the prof mentioning that Italy still has a problem with political stability and mentioned that they had nearly a new PM a year for many, many years -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sass 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 From my limited knowledge of Italian gov't, haven't they had a borderline comic number of governments? I remember during my Nazism and Fascism course in college (shockingly, not a happy class) the prof mentioning that Italy still has a problem with political stability and mentioned that they had nearly a new PM a year for many, many years -=Mike Yes. It's as bad as you have heard and then some. This is why I would put a limit on the number of major political parties the US can have if some of them start to get major financial backing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 30, 2004 From my limited knowledge of Italian gov't, haven't they had a borderline comic number of governments? I remember during my Nazism and Fascism course in college (shockingly, not a happy class) the prof mentioning that Italy still has a problem with political stability and mentioned that they had nearly a new PM a year for many, many years -=Mike Yes. It's as bad as you have heard and then some. This is why I would put a limit on the number of major political parties the US can have if some of them start to get major financial backing. Heck, I'd limit them simply due to what happened in Weimar Germany. Too many voices is every bit as bad as too few. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sass 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 I'm not familiar with Weimar. Too many parties getting a (disorganized) voice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2004 They should have payed by check, and then kicked their ass while they were trying to cash it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
