And So it Begins

[Fuzzy Dunlop 0]

Well, since nobody ever posts in this thread anymore, I guess I'm left with the unenviable task of reporting Beltran will go to the Mets, which means I'll be hopping on the Ordonez (Maggs, not Rey) BandWGN.

 

Also, is there any truth to the rumor that The Rox are looking to trade Helton? Supposedly their GM is looking at 2005 as a rebuilding year, and then returning to contention in '06, and Helton's ginormous contract might get in the way of that. Thus I propose (stole) this trade idea:

 

Derrek Lee for Helton, with Colorado eating the "back end" of Helton's contract. Those quotations are there in case you didn't believe me when I told you I stole this idea.

 

So here's my new lineup:

 

Patterson

Nomar

Maggs (if he's healthy)

Ramirez

Helton

So-So (also known as SamME)

Walker

Barrett

Big Z (just cause I miss watching him pitch)

 

So what do you guys think?

[the max 0]

You still have Pepsiboy.

 

Honestly, they should look to deal him for whatever and trying to find someone on the cheap.

[Fuzzy Dunlop 0]

The whole point in trying to trade Sosa was to sign Beltran, but now it's too late, so we might as well keep him with this being his contract year and all.

[NYU 0]

Well, since nobody ever posts in this thread anymore, I guess I'm left with the unenviable task of reporting Beltran will go to the Mets, which means I'll be hopping on the Ordonez (Maggs, not Rey) BandWGN.

I'll wait until I see it.

 

I can't help but feel Beltran is going to wind up signing with Houston again.

 

Plus the Mets always have a tendency to fall apart when it comes to signing the HUGE free agents....

[sfaJack 0]

Also, is there any truth to the rumor that The Rox are looking to trade Helton? Supposedly their GM is looking at 2005 as a rebuilding year, and then returning to contention in '06

Hilarious. The Rockies "rebuilding?" No way. Get the fuck out of here.

[Hektik 0]

Oh the Dodgers did a good job, too bad everyone is more focused on losing LoDuca and Green.  Who cares about a division title and the first playoff win since '88 when you lose your popular first half hitter/second half slumper and a $15 million player who is average at best?  WHERE IS THE HEART AND SOUL!!!

 

I'm really hoping for the Dodgers to do very well in '05.

I think people are really overrating DePodesta's trade last year. The Dodgers did not win because of it, they won despite it. Think about who they got and what they did last year.

 

Brad Penny - played 3 games and was injured the rest of the second half

 

Hee Seop Choi - was regulated to the bench for the whole second half when he couldn't hit to save his life.

 

What they did give up hurt them more than what they got back. The catching position was a platoon of David Ross & Brent Mayne and their bullpen really struggled down the stretch even with the emergence of Yhency Brozoban.

 

When that trade took place the Dodgers had just took 2 out of 3 from the Padres to widen their lead in the NL West. The Dodgers stumbled down the stretch to let the Giants back into the race and came close to losing it. What helped DePodesta was Steve Finley falling into his lap, not the 6 player trade.

 

As far as him stripping down the team, that is his right, even if the LA fans despise him and moneyball. The only real mistake I think he made this year is breaking up that middle infield of Izturis and Cora. Jeff Kent is nowhere near the defensive 2nd baseman that Alex Cora is. Why mess with the best middle infield in baseball?

[The Czech Republic 0]

Also, is there any truth to the rumor that The Rox are looking to trade Helton?  Supposedly their GM is looking at 2005 as a rebuilding year, and then returning to contention in '06

Hilarious. The Rockies "rebuilding?" No way. Get the fuck out of here.

The Rockies seem like they're never in nor out of contention.

[DerangedHermit 0]

Also, is there any truth to the rumor that The Rox are looking to trade Helton?  Supposedly their GM is looking at 2005 as a rebuilding year, and then returning to contention in '06

Hilarious. The Rockies "rebuilding?" No way. Get the fuck out of here.

The Rockies seem like they're never in nor out of contention.

They lost 94 games this season...

[strummer 0]

The "report" of the Mets signing Beltran is completely bogus. Someone running a NY Sports fan site made it up. I don't believe he is coming to the Mets anyway

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

well since every media outlet in New York is reporting on it, I doubt that it's bogus.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

What they did give up hurt them more than what they got back. The catching position was a platoon of David Ross & Brent Mayne and their bullpen really struggled down the stretch even with the emergence of Yhency Brozoban.

 

Lo Duca was terrible for the Marlins, as he's been terrible in the second half for four years now. Mota had a bad season with the Marlins as well. The trade really turned into a non-event. The Dodgers got no appreciable talent, but didn't give up anyone of importance either.

 

As far as him stripping down the team, that is his right, even if the LA fans despise him and moneyball. The only real mistake I think he made this year is breaking up that middle infield of Izturis and Cora. Jeff Kent is nowhere near the defensive 2nd baseman that Alex Cora is. Why mess with the best middle infield in baseball?

 

Because Jeff Kent's offense far outweighs Cora's defense. Cora's career OBP is .314. Sure he's a nice defensive player, but this is not Trammell/Whitaker we are talking about here. Given that Kent has played for playoff teams in San Francisco and Houston, I'm sure LA can survive the slight downgrade in defense.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Tony Batista signed a 2 year $15mill deal with some club in Japan. I'm predicting now that he slaughters all of Tuffy's records.

 

and apparently the Mets are willing to pay most of Kim's contract in a trade. Woohoo!

[NYU 0]

well since every media outlet in New York is reporting on it, I doubt that it's bogus.

Well, see, there's a difference between a team OFFERING someone a contract, and that person actually SIGNING such a contract.

 

The New York media outlets are reporting the Mets are ready to offer Carlos Beltran a 7-year, $112 million contract.

 

However, they aren't even close to signing him. Houston has until Friday to get him to sign a new contract - which I do think is going to happen. If they don't, there is a good chance the Mets could land them.....but, of course, no one could ever truly count out the Yankees.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Czech Republic = Veruca Salt

 

I WANT CARLOS BELTRAN RIGHT NOW, DADDY!

[MikeJordan23 0]

Mike and Mad Dog on WFAN were having a discussion on which players were better than Beltran, kinda interesting. They came up with

 

Better:

Bonds, A-Rod, Guerrero, Pujols, Jeter, Manny, Helton, Tejada

 

On par with him

Edmonds

Thome

Rolen

 

about one or two more on the bubble.

[Guest OSIcon]

Mike and Mad Dog on WFAN were having a discussion on which players were better than Beltran, kinda interesting. They came up with

 

Better:

Bonds, A-Rod, Guerrero, Pujols, Jeter, Manny, Helton, Tejada

 

On par with him

Edmonds

Thome

Rolen

 

about one or two more on the bubble.

 

I think it is a real stretch to say that Jeter is better than Beltran. I can't think of one statistical cateogry that Jeter has had a significant edge in the past five years. Both are above average fielders. If they are going to pull out the "intangibles" argument, one could argue that Beltran was as important to the Astros' late season and playoff run as Jeter was to a lot of Yankee runs.

 

Not sure if Helton is automatically better than Beltran also since he's never played a season without having half of his games at Coors Field.

[mike546 0]

I thought they should have put Miguel Cabrera on level with Beltran. He had a monster year, and hes what, 21?

[Bored 0]

Mike and Mad Dog on WFAN were having a discussion on which players were better than Beltran, kinda interesting. They came up with

 

Better:

Bonds, A-Rod, Guerrero, Pujols, Jeter, Manny, Helton, Tejada

 

On par with him

Edmonds

Thome

Rolen

 

about one or two more on the bubble.

 

I think it is a real stretch to say that Jeter is better than Beltran. I can't think of one statistical cateogry that Jeter has had a significant edge in the past five years. Both are above average fielders. If they are going to pull out the "intangibles" argument, one could argue that Beltran was as important to the Astros' late season and playoff run as Jeter was to a lot of Yankee runs.

Puhlease everyone knows Jeter is the sole reason the Yankees have won any championships. I think the only real debate out there is if Jeter can knock off Babe Ruth as the greatest Yankee of all-time. I bet he can as he knocked off Ozzie Smith as the greatest defensive shortstop of all-time last year.

 

Now to be serious. These players were better than Beltran in both VORP and Win Shares last season:

 

Barry Bonds

Albert Pujols

Adrian Beltre

Jim Edmonds

Bobby Abreu

Lance Berkman

J.D. Drew

Mark Loretta (!)

 

Better than Beltran in VORP but not Win Shares:

 

Todd Helton (equal in win shares)

Vladimir Guerrero

Ichiro Suzuki

 

Better than Beltran in Win Shares but not VORP:

 

Scott Rolen (just below in VORP)

Adam Dunn

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Mark Loretta was the shit last year. And Helton rocks. He's like Larry Walker in that everyone assumes he's not for real because he plays in Coors.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

I'd still take Manny over Beltran at this very moment. He carried the Red Sox offense in April and May.

[Brett Favre 0]

I think it is a real stretch to say that Jeter is better than Beltran.  I can't think of one statistical cateogry that Jeter has had a significant edge in the past five years.  Both are above average fielders.  If they are going to pull out the "intangibles" argument, one could argue that Beltran was as important to the Astros' late season and playoff run as Jeter was to a lot of Yankee runs.

Jeter has a higher career OPB (throught Jeter's career, OPB's have been 10 points lower than throughout Beltran's), higher OPS (even though throughout Beltran's career, OPS' have been 30 some points higher), Jeter has averaged more hits a year, more runs, and more doubles.

 

I think Jeter is the better player.

[Bored 0]

Errr that's a career evaluation, not who's the better player now. Beltran has been better than Jeter the last two years and is three years younger.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Yeah, but at least Jeter won't be retardedly overpaid long into his thir - What? Why is Al glaring at me?

[mike546 0]

I'd take Jeter from May - September from last year over Beltran.

 

Jeter battled .350 during that time. Problem was he batted .190 for a month and a half. He ended up at .292, an a miracle at that. And if anybody says anything about Jeters contract, I think it was signed in 99, where he had a career year. I have doubt in my mind that everyone expected him to do even better after that.

[the max 0]

If I were starting a team and given 100 chances to take Jeter or Beltran, I'd take Beltran every time.

[sfaJack 0]

Astros have only 49 hours left in the Beltran sweepstakes...

 

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2981375

 

Astros say they've made final offer to Beltran

By JOEL ANDERSON

Associated Press

 

The Houston Astros said Thursday that they've made their final offer to Carlos Beltran. They'll find out this weekend whether it was enough to keep the All-Star center fielder.

 

"The offer on the table is our final offer,'' general manager Tim Purpura said, without indicating whether Houston made a new proposal. ``We're not interested in going any higher.''

 

Houston faces an 11 p.m. CST Saturday deadline to re-sign Beltran. After that, under baseball rules the Astros wouldn't be allowed to strike a deal with him until May 1.

 

Purpura said he and owner Drayton McLane spoke with Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, on Thursday. Purpura said he wasn't sure which way Beltran might be leaning.

 

"It's impossible to know where we stand in this kind of thing," he said. "We know that we're in the running, though."

 

Boras would not respond to Purpura's comments.

 

"Of the teams I'm negotiating with, I have received certain new proposals," he said, without going into specifics.

 

The New York Mets, who dispatched a delegation to Puerto Rico to meet with Beltran and Boras on Monday, also are trying to sign Beltran, and the Chicago Cubs also might be involved in the talks. The New York Yankees told Boras they would not focus on Beltran until after finalizing negotiations for an extension with Randy Johnson, a process that was nearing completion.

 

Boras is seeking a deal worth more than $100 million for the 27-year-old switch-hitter.

 

Purpura declined to discuss the amount of Houston's proposal.

 

"We feel it's a good offer," he said. "But to go any further wouldn't be prudent for the future of our organization."

 

Boras said he had spoken with all the teams involved on Thursday and was continuing to negotiate but said no decision was imminent. He says that while Saturday's deadline with the Astros was a factor, it didn't necessarily mean Beltran would make a decision by then.

 

Beltran led the Astros within one win of their first World Series last season, batting .417 in the NL championship series with four home runs, five RBIs and four steals.

[2GOLD 0]

God, at this pace he'll go to the Yankees by default.

 

Cubs can't sign him cause of Sosa, Tigers said thanks but no thanks, Astros are tired of his agent, Royals damn sure don't have the money and the Mets are the Mets.

[Brett Favre 0]

Errr that's a career evaluation, not who's the better player now. Beltran has been better than Jeter the last two years and is three years younger.

Past 2 years, the average OPB between them has been similar (Jeter .393, and .352, Beltran .389, and .362) Jeter's still had more doubles, more hits (and Jeter only played 119 games 2 years ago), and that's about it. Jeter's had higher OBP's throughout his career, and is a better hitter. Beltran has him with the slugging though.

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

Beltran should be a free agent through the season.

 

I seriously wish some arrogant hard ass with beltran's clout made himself available via the season but never signs a contract until 2 weeks before the playoffs start and jumps to the hottest team going and takes the credit when they win the world series.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Sorry Beltran, but if it's at LEAST 7 years, $105 million (with a club option that would make it 8 years, $114 million) that has been reported in local news and you don't take it, you suck. I don't blame the Astros for saying "Take it or leave it" because Bore-Ass does this with every client he's got. I know agents are supposed to get every dollar they can, but I don't like having the home team being held hostage by some smarmy lying jackass.