11 States ban gay marriage

[Guest SP-1]

EDIT: Man. CWM would be proud.

Edited November 4, 2004 by SP-1

[Guest SP-1]

EDIT: Stupid board messing up

Edited November 4, 2004 by SP-1

[MrRant 0]

Damn, Rant. Didn't know you were such a Jesus freak.

 

Homophobe...

Naw. I just don't think own group of people should hold their beliefs as valid while invalidating others beliefs. I don't care if there is or isn't gay marriage. Besides my sister is a lesbian.

 

Hippy.

 

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

The only kind of legitimate concern over this is legal, pure and simple. If you're offended by it because it goes against your religion, tough shit. I'm Christian, and I don't think that gay marriage is wrong. What anyone else does that has absolutely no affect on me is none of my fucking business.

 

Tell me, straight out, how gay marriage will directly affect your life, in a certifiable, non-abstract way.

If you're a Christian, what biblical basis do you have for not opposing gay marriage?

You don't. According to the tenets of Christianity, homosexuality is a sin (duh).

 

My opinion of what you *should* do, however, is to not support a ban on gay marriage. Respect both your religious faith and the notion that our nation's government should be separate from that religious faith. If an amendment comes up in your state, SP, I would hope that you would choose to abstain from voting on it. You would thus compromise nothing: you would neither support homosexuality, nor judge another person as it is not your place to do.

 

I think a serious Christian can be humble and abstain from a vote either way on gay marriage without offending God. It's not your duty to oppress or convert others, and I don't think you personally do that. If God's up there, let him do the judging. Don't give into the assholes voting to ban gay marriage just because they hate fags.

[Guest SP-1]

I would vote against it because I believe it to be morally wrong. God comes first. Morality must be the base to operate from in every matter. To abstain isn't to remain neutral. To abstain in this instance turns into a silent support.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Too bad. That, then, summarizes why I think the public of America has no business voting to restrict the rights of minorities.

[NoCalMike 0]

How many people here have "domestic partnership" laws in their state? Which was basically created as an avenue to give Gays, company benefits. It was essentially made, for the fact that Gays can't get married, however Heterosexuals then sued and said if you don't let non-married heterosexual partners participate, then it is discrimination, LOL. So you'd think corporate america would be in favor of gay marriage or civil unions so they could wipe out their "domestic partner" benefits pack.

 

The "domestic partner" benefits seem like the first logical step towards at least, Civil Unions.

[Guest Loss]

I've given it some thought and I've decided I want to become politically active on this issue in my state. This is my battle plan, and I do also plan to work with friends and recruit others. I'd like to hear your thoughts if you have them.

 

(1) Appeal to mainstream voters. Send out pamphlets and fliers that don't attack, but explain homosexuality and tackle the issue from as moderate a view as possible. Give testimonials of real couples living in the area. Explain that gays have died serving our country in Iraq, gays died in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and gays are losing their jobs overseas. In that sense, in the sense of struggle, we're just like all other Americans. Explain that we'd like to share in the triumphs since we share in the challenges, and give a patriotic feel.

 

(2) Go door to door and talk to people. The best bet is probably to start in neighborhoods that are notoriously liberal and go from there, asking for recommendations of other people we can visit that would be willing to at least listen to us. When we get to those places, we could ask for even more suggestions of places to go where we would be heard. The goal would be to speak, face-to-face, to as many voters as possible. It is my hope that having a homosexual in one's home, talking to him or her face to face, would put people who may have never known a gay person at ease.

 

(3) Phone calls doing the same. Since people typically already have problems with us, calling during dinner time or early in the morning or late at night probably isn't the best idea.

 

(4) Talk to churches and attempt to explain our stance. Explain that in exchange for them supporting gay marriage, we would support a law that protected churches from lawsuits who refused to marry gay and lesbian couples. Come at them not from a religious point of view, but a practical one, noting that gays do not have the benefits of health insurance, hospital visitation or proper estates, noting that marriage would provide that.

 

(5) Talk to gays. Frequent gay bars, restaurants, clubs and events. Post on bulletin boards on college campuses. Start with liberal groups, such as Planned Parenthood, the ACLU and other gay rights groups. Also speak to women's groups and form strong alliances. Fight political apathy among gays and relate to them on an intimate level, letting them know that they have the chance to ensure that future generations of gays have positive role models.

 

(6) Write letters to all politicians on a state, local and national level. Let them know where we stand. Schedule meetings to discuss the issue with all political parties. Take notes, provide suggestions and listen.

 

(7) Thank our heterosexual allies repeatedly. Without heterosexuals on our side, we will never, ever win equality. No heterosexual who supports gay rights should be ostracized; he should be lauded.

 

(8) Raise money. Look for corporate sponsorship, especially from local gay-owned businesses.

 

The goal of all of this is to centralize the movement, making the issue one that's more of a mainstream cause than a far left request.

 

Does everyone think this is a good plan? Is there anything anyone would add to this?

[NoCalMike 0]

I honestly feel that religion is the convenient front for people that are grossed out by homosexuality, but have no argument besides, "I don't want no faggot getting married in my neighborhood"

 

I am sure there are people that truly believe their bible tells them that homosexuality is a sin yadda yadda yadda, however I think the amount of "pick and choosers" far outweight the honest to goodness folks. In other words I am talking about the "Christians on Sunday" type people, who pack in the church and play the part in order to be part of the group, yet the minute they leave church, anything goes.

[MrRant 0]

Joing with Femnazis isn't going to help.

 

How about this... respect other's beliefs that some people think that what you do is immoral and disgusting.

 

I don't but people do and you have to live with it instead of tell them that they are wrong.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Does everyone think this is a good plan? Is there anything anyone would add to this?

 

Very good idea. I would also check to see if there are any organizations that you could join that deal with this very subject. It would be easier if you find a group with some structure already in place. If you can't, then you should start from scratch as you plan on doing.

 

I know it may seem unfair that you must do this to insure what you view as your rights, but it simply how things get done in your country. I wish you the best of luck.

[Guest Loss]

Joing with Femnazis isn't going to help.

 

How about this... respect other's beliefs that some people think that what you do is immoral and disgusting.

 

I don't but people do and you have to live with it instead of tell them that they are wrong.

The goal is to get marriage legalized. Just sitting back isn't going to accomplish anything.

[NoCalMike 0]

How about this... respect other's beliefs that some people think that what you do is immoral and disgusting.

How about this...I do. I never said we should write into law that everyone has to love gay marriage. However, there are also people who think anal sex is disgusting. I am sure there are those that think premarital sex is disgusting etc etc etc......Of course they are allowed to think that way, and I can care less, however to outlaw those things would be ludicrous. There is a difference between, "eww I think that is gross" and "those guys CAN'T because I don't like it"

[MrRant 0]

Joing with Femnazis isn't going to help.

 

How about this... respect other's beliefs that some people think that what you do is immoral and disgusting.

 

I don't but people do and you have to live with it instead of tell them that they are wrong.

The goal is to get marriage legalized. Just sitting back isn't going to accomplish anything.

Being assholes about it and going door to door peddling your wares isn't going to help. I don't much like it when Mormons come do my door either and you would get the same respones I give them. A door to the face. And I know there are going to a lot less people happy about gays coming to their door than me so I suggest you stay in the colder states.

[Guest Loss]

Joing with Femnazis isn't going to help.

 

How about this... respect other's beliefs that some people think that what you do is immoral and disgusting.

 

I don't but people do and you have to live with it instead of tell them that they are wrong.

The goal is to get marriage legalized. Just sitting back isn't going to accomplish anything.

Being assholes about it and going door to door peddling your wares isn't going to help. I don't much like it when Mormons come do my door either and you would get the same respones I give them. A door to the face. And I know there are going to a lot less people happy about gays coming to their door than me so I suggest you stay in the colder states.

Fuck you! George W. Bush went door to door in Ohio on election day and it ended up helping him win the election. Mike is the one who said gay marriage will never be legalized if we don't plead our case to the public. How else is it supposed to happen?

[MrRant 0]

Have workshops or something. Have meetings at a library.

 

Stay the fuck off my property. That goes for any kind of solicitor, politican, religious fanatic etc.

[NoCalMike 0]

Anyone got MrRant's address?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Rant isn't going to change his mind, but many others might. You are definitely headed in the right direction, even though there will be assholes who don't budge. Just try to stay optimistic.

[MrRant 0]

But I'm in support of gay marriage or civil unions.

 

I just hate the activists almost as much as I hate hippies for their assholish better than thou nature.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Rant does have a point though. If you're going to go door-to-door, you should be careful about which doors you go to, or you could get a lot worse then a door in your face.

[EricMM 0]

Do you support fighting global warming? Because it does not have appreciably more actual evidence.

-=Mike

 

Stop baiting me, Ostrich.

 

SP if you're so in favor of religion and state being integrated, please move to the middle east, or some other pissant place where people can't live happily without everyone worshiping the same way they are. Face it, this country was based upon a freedom from persecution. If you look at Gay Marriage from a secular viewpoint, it's merely stabilizing and healthy. The state's decisions are supposed to be based upon secular reasoning. Otherwise we'd never get anything done in our SECULAR society.

 

Again, this ISN'T a theocracy, because religions are very bad at governing countries. They're very old and people tend not to update them. Because some religions, even some Christian religions, can't bear to stretch. Christ was one liberal guy, and here you are having his name used to oppress people.

 

Come on.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Gay Marriage isn't a good idea on Non-religious reasons.

[MrRant 0]

Because men don't look good in a dress.

[EricMM 0]

So they'll get married in tuxes.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

So you've got Mike saying that gays need to work for it if they want these rights, and Rant saying that he finds the people who would do such work to be shitheads. Tricky.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I'm suprised this whole "take it to the public" thing is still being said over and over even after the election.

 

You know the slack-jawed locals that you see (or used to see) at WWE House Shows in the south? The marks that thought it was all real? They're pretty much the majority in America now, and they hates them some fags but they love God and they want the government to love God, too.

[BX 0]

It's been quite some time since I laughed that hard JOTW.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Doesn't take much to amuse you, huh?

 

I find much more entertaining (in a good way) whenever rant argues gay marriage...

[Guest Loss]

(2) Go door to door and talk to people. The best bet is probably to start in neighborhoods that are notoriously liberal and go from there, asking for recommendations of other people we can visit that would be willing to at least listen to us. When we get to those places, we could ask for even more suggestions of places to go where we would be heard. The goal would be to speak, face-to-face, to as many voters as possible. It is my hope that having a homosexual in one's home, talking to him or her face to face, would put people who may have never known a gay person at ease.

 

Based on this, Rant, I seriously doubt we'd ever come to your house, so sleep easy. Starting in gay and/or very liberal neighborhoods and asking for other places we could go from there is what I'm suggesting, and I think that's the best route possible.

[Guest SP-1]

But aren't you just preaching to the choir, to use a term, in that instance? Those are probably the people that would vote for it anyway. And they've been proven to not be the majority.

[Guest Loss]

But aren't you just preaching to the choir, to use a term, in that instance? Those are probably the people that would vote for it anyway. And they've been proven to not be the majority.

Not necessarily. There are many people who WOULD vote against the amendment that either don't get to the polls out of apathy or voted for the amendment for reasons that weren't grounded in their religious beliefs. The key is getting those voters energized about going to the polls and supporting the cause. As high as the turnout was this time, I still knew far too many apathetic people.

 

Then, you have the issue that 21% of the gay population voted for Bush in this election, which I can't explain. At all. That 21% could have made a difference in this election. I read that in one of the seemingly thousands of articles I've read this week, and I'll try to provide the link here if I can find it again.

 

Gays need to talk to their families. Too many gays that I know had families voting for Bush or even voting for the amendment, which stunned me. I do have one friend that I was so proud of because he was able to talk his father, a lifelong Republican who had actually donated to the party in the past, to supporting John Kerry in this election. That shows that it can happen.

 

It's all about spreading a message. The more gays get their families involved, the more those family members get their friends involved, and the process continues. There are going to be snags, and that's not going to work publicly, but you have to start at the core and get the core excited about the issue before anything can really be accomplished at all. That still has to happen more than it has up until now.

 

There are also some gays that are not particularly passionate about the issue of gay marriage, feeling that it's not that big of a deal. Marriage in and of itself definitely isn't. I have no desire to get married at any point in my life, honestly. But this isn't about marriage, this is about equality. Gays have the right to vote, the right to advance in our careers, the right to hold public office, the right to attend the best colleges and after some struggle, the right to serve our country in the military. The right to marry is the only right we don't have. We can't lose this one. It's symbolic.