USA Network wants Raw

[Matt Young 0]

That big December 18th Raw had the following match:

 

Raven pinned Al Snow in a hardcore match.

I seem to remember that match ending outside the arena with raven pinning Snow after a Raven Effect on a cinderblock. I recall being very excited that 2 of my favorite wrestlers were headlining Raw.

[Enigma 0]

For the record, RAW's rating slipped back into the 5 range in it's 2nd-to-last week on USA Network.

[Scroby 0]

Now here's what I want to know, say this move did happen. Would Spike actually go up and pick up TNA, as a shot to show Vince, "Hey we lost you but we still got wrestling", or would they just abandon the idea altogether?

[k thx 0]

The real question isn't whether moving to USA would increase ratings, it's whether Vince would think it would.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I think the bigger problem was not Austin going heel (his heat had been going downhill for months), but HHH staying heel. If Rock wasn't going to be around, then HHH was the next logical choice, face HHH vs. heel Austin could have drawn huge, but I get the feeling they wanted to save that for Wrestlemania XVIII instead, and you saw the consequences.

 

The timing of the heel turn was off too. They should have started it at the Royal Rumble or immediately after.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The real question isn't whether moving to USA would increase ratings, it's whether Vince would think it would.

Vince despised getting pre-empted for stuff like the Dog Show and US Open. That's the #1 reason he went to Spike.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I remember the post-WM X-7 Raw, and you could feel the crowd wanting Triple H to lay Vince and Austin out. They wanted it so badly.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I remember the post-WM X-7 Raw, and you could feel the crowd wanting Triple H to lay Vince and Austin out. They wanted it so badly.

Exactly. That is where they screwed up majorly. The Austin turn was a good idea. HHH was still the hottest character in the promotion at that point as well. It wasn't anywhere close to the feeling you get when you think of him today (ie. nausea).

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Raw in HD would have no effect on the ratings at all.

I should mention that Nielsen and the other ratings companies don't even have any ratings system for HD channels. This is why the networks are almost fighting HD, because HD viewers don't add to their rating.

 

And with no rating system to gauge how many people bought your ad, nobody wants to buy ad time on an HD channel. The Olympics on NBC's HD had only one advertiser for the entire Games, which was Sony who realized that the damn thing would be played in every electronics store in the country. So for over a week NBC-HD just played the same one Sony ad over and over.

 

NBC, of course, ran games only 24+ hours old on the HD channel, because they wanted HD owners to be watching the regular NBC to count for their big rating.

[Guest Coffey]

Now here's what I want to know, say this move did happen. Would Spike actually go up and pick up TNA, as a shot to show Vince, "Hey we lost you but we still got wrestling", or would they just abandon the idea altogether?

Well, TNA is on FSN, and hopefully FX soon. Maybe Spike could get ROH and we'd have 3 companies televised again?

 

Wishful thinking, I know.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Now here's what I want to know, say this move did happen. Would Spike actually go up and pick up TNA, as a shot to show Vince, "Hey we lost you but we still got wrestling", or would they just abandon the idea altogether?

Without RAW, Spike TV wont be around long enough to worry about it.

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

Now here's what I want to know, say this move did happen. Would Spike actually go up and pick up TNA, as a shot to show Vince, "Hey we lost you but we still got wrestling", or would they just abandon the idea altogether?

Well, TNA is on FSN, and hopefully FX soon. Maybe Spike could get ROH and we'd have 3 companies televised again?

 

Wishful thinking, I know.

Ring of Honor isn't designed for TV. It's designed for the niche market of Wrestling Euthusiastics to buy the tapes/dvds and sell those via 'net. ROH would completely change it's purpose if it had a National Network deal or ANY tv deal at all. The wrestlers aren't even contracted and it's a completely open air company meaning all the workers are free to work other companies, even TNA and some work WWE Dark matches and heat/velocity shows as well. If they were to get a net deal; they'd have to start drawing up contracts like TNA did and they lose the uniqueness that made them what they are. SPIKETV wouldn't like ROH having their traditional 30-60 minute matches they seem to have per show.

 

TNA will likely get a Wednesday Night slot on FX and WWE should go back to USA.

 

USA treated Raw great and had no choice with the pre-emptions. USA is also shooting for Sunday Night Football; so if they get that, they can end their US Open deal. USA is a more respectable network then Spike could ever wish to be and I still know people who think of USA as the WWE Channel. So that tells you how significant Raw was to USA.

 

The burning question would be this...Does Smackdown retain it's slot on UPN? and if It doesn't...Where does it go? Does USA give WWE two timeslots, which would end Vince's dream of having a primetime network tv show but I strongly doubt NBC would pick it up. So that would be the potential deal breaker.

[slimm44 0]

But that means RAW would be pre-empted by tennis in August

 

I dont think it matters what network they are on, I'll still watch

[RHR 0]

The advantage of going back to USA would be that hindsight is 20/20. Vince can get a contract tha allows for no chance of getting bumped by a dog show, or, Vince can allow it and do a PPV on a Monday or something to that effect. I think the ratings would rise because USA is a better ran network than Spike. USA probably wouldn't have a problem advertising RAW on other nights---if the ratings were good.

 

This of course, requires the product to get better..

[Guest MikeSC]

The advantage of going back to USA would be that hindsight is 20/20. Vince can get a contract tha allows for no chance of getting bumped by a dog show, or, Vince can allow it and do a PPV on a Monday or something to that effect. I think the ratings would rise because USA is a better ran network than Spike. USA probably wouldn't have a problem advertising RAW on other nights---if the ratings were good.

 

This of course, requires the product to get better..

The only benefit WWE might have is that, outside of RAW, NOTHING on TNN seems to draw ratings. USA is doing quite well without RAW. It might help lift RAW's ratings.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

I remember the post-WM X-7 Raw, and you could feel the crowd wanting Triple H to lay Vince and Austin out. They wanted it so badly.

However, can HHH actually be a compelling face? He has never been a compelling face ME'er (in DX, they were upper midcard, but not ME).

-=Mike

...Who does blame the UT & Kane v HHH & Austin program as the first to REALLY hurt WWE...

[King Cucaracha 0]

I remember the post-WM X-7 Raw, and you could feel the crowd wanting Triple H to lay Vince and Austin out. They wanted it so badly.

However, can HHH actually be a compelling face? He has never been a compelling face ME'er (in DX, they were upper midcard, but not ME).

I dunno, the reaction he got on his MSG return was so awesome that I'd imagine he would have worked well as a face. He got strong reactions from then until his turn. He just didn't have the right feuds and stories. Jericho/HHH speaks for itself. Angle/HHH was a waste of time. HHH/Austin might have worked very well.

 

Of course, HHH didn't WANT to be a face...so, I don't know how long it would have been before he phoned it in.

[Kizzo 0]

USA getting WWE is a strong possibilty...but look at this...

 

The ABC/ESPN T.V. deal ends next season(including CBS and FOX)...Here is the deal....Monday Night Football is losing money....its not helping ABC and its not helping the NFL(ratings continute to go down as well)..some have reported that MNF could end up on ESPN, and SNF moves to NBC or something like that.....but what if NBC Universal wanted the whole NFL package...

 

With that scenario we could have ABC/ESPN lose the NFL deal, and have MNF move to NBC...and SNF move to USA Network.....plus USA Network would have the WWE T.V. deal....talk about a channel make over...

 

But who knows.....its going to be very interesting next year...

[Guest Brian]

I remember the post-WM X-7 Raw, and you could feel the crowd wanting Triple H to lay Vince and Austin out. They wanted it so badly.

However, can HHH actually be a compelling face? He has never been a compelling face ME'er (in DX, they were upper midcard, but not ME).

I dunno, the reaction he got on his MSG return was so awesome that I'd imagine he would have worked well as a face. He got strong reactions from then until his turn. He just didn't have the right feuds and stories. Jericho/HHH speaks for itself. Angle/HHH was a waste of time. HHH/Austin might have worked very well.

 

Of course, HHH didn't WANT to be a face...so, I don't know how long it would have been before he phoned it in.

Getting face reactions on a greatly hyped return is different than sustaining them, though I do think they had the potential to turn him into an effective face during the Austin heel run.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Back to USA. Huh. Well it wont make a lick of difference in the ratings. maybe slightly, but the product will still suck ass either way. Well, at least there'll be symmetry.

[NoCalMike 0]

Whoa, USA wants Sunday Night Football? I do admit that I preferred TNT to ESPN. I just liked TNT's broadcasting crew, and felt it was a nice refresher from the usual ESPN shctick, so I guess USA might deserve a shot at it too.

[Promoter 0]

Monthly Averages of 2000

Jan: 6.5

Feb: 5.8

Mar: 6.4

Apr: 6.6

May: 6.6

June: 6.2

July: 6.0

August: 5.8

September: 5.3

October: 5.2

November: 5.0

December: 4.8

 

September 25 2000: 5.4

October 2 2000: 5.4

October 9 2000: 5..4

October 16 2000: 4.8

October 23 2000: 5.5

October 30 2000: 4.9

November 6 2000: 5.1

November 13 2000: 5.0

November 20 2000: 5.0

November 27 2000: 5.0

December 4 2000: 5.0

December 11 2000: 5.75

December 18 2000: 4.8

December 25 2000: 3.8

This is interesting. Now if the wwe can be honest with itself and analyze this data maybe it can help with their damn product although a lot has changed with the brand split and rosters. Looking at these numbers it would seem that post SummerSlam is where all the problems truly began. Maybe it was the combination of switching channels and changing up the creative staff, but it simply be that the wwe and wrestling started to fade in popularity. What were wcw and ecw doing at the time?

 

It seems that the wwe started to lose fan interest after the ironman match where Triple H regained the title. The Rock's heat probably never regained its hot level of around Mania and Backlash(look at the crowd's heat for his title win). Killing off some of Rock's heat most of played a part since he was the super face at the time. August's average didn't look too bright either and perhaps Rock's title reign was too overshadowed with the love triangle stuff. Something mentioned by others was Triple H's face heat in 2001 post Mania, but I also think they might have botched it with Angle/HHH as well. Angle was getting some good heel heat in that feud. Now if they were listening to what the audience was responding to Angle should have aligned with Stephanie Mcmahon with Triple H turning face. If that happens a lot of stuff gets turned upside down for 2001.

 

Austin's return seemed to actually hurt the company with these stats. Now this might have signalled fan interest in the character being low. They probably saw this and thought the heel turn was needed(and imo were right, but the timing and execution was off). Now things seemed to increase when Austin was put into the HHH program for the "vehicular homicide" angle and it seems the way that played out turned fans off. In the meantime, they had Angle becoming WWF Champion which imo was wrong timing and executed wrong. Angle was getting heat in the summer for his alignment with Stephanie and they should have run with that.

 

Hindisght being 20/20 as we know Triple H/Austin in 2001 could have been a major feud if they had aligned things just a tad bit different when Austin returned. I think they were kind of building Austin's heel turn with him going over the edge at Survivor Series and whatnot. When you think about it Triple H was face-like with his superman powers surviving that crap with the crane. I think that whole Austin storyline with the "vehicular homicide" is where everything started to tank. The Rock's heat was dissipating as well with Angle and Rikishi. Austin was still kind of rusty.

 

Imagine now if they had done Austin's return differently and played out the angle in a different path. Triple H turning face around SummerSlam 2000 and The Rock still remaining champion(actually he should have got the blow-off victory with HHH with the ironman match and then turn him face). It could have gone with things like Stephanie getting Angle the title shot to get the job done at SummerSlam. Anyways, Austin could have been a tweener when he returned just as always and blaming everyone for the attack. That would have fit into his character of 97 where he stunned faces and heels week in and week out. Since Triple H's heat was becoming more babyface like and with The Rock as champion(I think Angle got the belt when he was too green adding to apathy for ratings) they could have built Austin's heel turn against both men by dragging out the whodunnit angle. Someone stated before that Austin should have turned at the Royal Rumble and maybe that is a direction that could have worked. If they had aligned Austin with Mcmahon at that event I think the whole Austin heel turn would have worked better by having Triple H and The Rock as his folds. The Rock was planned to go do his movie anyways post Mania 17 and then having Triple H as a backdrop would have worked.

 

The thing I can't blame them on for is that what they actually did turning Austin completely was to align him with the top heel Triple H. They might have thought to have an impact such as Hogan's heel turn they might have thought he needed to align with Triple H to do this. We know what the problems with doing that were though(such as the recent history between the men and that fans were craving to cheer HHH even the year before). It created an atmosphere where no faces had the image of overcoming the Two Man Power Trip. Sorry, but Taker and Kane were kind of lame at the time and not to mention we saw those matches a million times as it was. Not to mention ecw and wcw were gone giving little to cheer for fans post Mania 17. The wwe probably were banking on The Rock returning from hollywood to face off against Austin at SummerSlam. However, things started to fall and they rushed the Invasion angle which just confused things even more. Ratings and interest started to fade even more. I remember the WM press conference that had Austin and Rock face to face as the two world champions. Maybe they wanted to hold off Austin/Rock since they brought in Booker to face The Rock at SummerSlam and we know how that went. Triple H went down and it seemed they changed focus to Triple H returning as a face to become the champion at WrestleMania 18. They might have had the timing wrong with Triple H since Hogan was brought back. Then you have to consider the brand extension's execution. Remember they wanted to do it before the Royal Rumble?

 

I wonder what some here would have suggested to implement the brand split because I still believe how they executed it has caused the mainstream to not really care for it. How would that have impacted the return of the nWo if the brand split was already in place since I did hear rumours that the nWo were suppose to float between the two brands, but the idea was nixed. Angle was getting the best heel heat with the exception of Austin in 2001 as well, yet we saw what crap they did with him there. I don't know things were really getting off kilter post Mania 17 and they haven't recovered since. The botching did start with Austin's return to the company along with HHH's handling. If they were on the ball more with certain things I bet the company would look a lot different today in terms of heat. USA network had the company before the wwe started to botch things and before Austin's return. I really think the alignment of certain things around the switch caused some fans to just turn off completely. The wwe had an artificial boost of interest with the purchase of wcw and pitting Rock/Austin in a match for Mania.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

I think the bigger problem was not Austin going heel (his heat had been going downhill for months), but HHH staying heel. If Rock wasn't going to be around, then HHH was the next logical choice, face HHH vs. heel Austin could have drawn huge, but I get the feeling they wanted to save that for Wrestlemania XVIII instead, and you saw the consequences.

 

The timing of the heel turn was off too. They should have started it at the Royal Rumble or immediately after.

I don't buy into most of the conspiricy theories, but I think the reason HHH stayed heel was because he didn't want to job to Austin.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I think the bigger problem was not Austin going heel (his heat had been going downhill for months), but HHH staying heel.  If Rock wasn't going to be around, then HHH was the next logical choice, face HHH vs. heel Austin could have drawn huge, but I get the feeling they wanted to save that for Wrestlemania XVIII instead, and you saw the consequences. 

 

The timing of the heel turn was off too.  They should have started it at the Royal Rumble or immediately after.

I don't buy into most of the conspiricy theories, but I think the reason HHH stayed heel was because he didn't want to job to Austin.

He likely would have been the one to beat Austin, so I don't buy that.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

I think the bigger problem was not Austin going heel (his heat had been going downhill for months), but HHH staying heel.  If Rock wasn't going to be around, then HHH was the next logical choice, face HHH vs. heel Austin could have drawn huge, but I get the feeling they wanted to save that for Wrestlemania XVIII instead, and you saw the consequences. 

 

The timing of the heel turn was off too.  They should have started it at the Royal Rumble or immediately after.

I don't buy into most of the conspiricy theories, but I think the reason HHH stayed heel was because he didn't want to job to Austin.

He likely would have been the one to beat Austin, so I don't buy that.

But not right after he won the title at Mania, and I think he didn't want to job round the horn to Austin for a few months leading up to his win at SummerSlam or what have you.

[iliketurtles 0]

I think the bigger problem was not Austin going heel (his heat had been going downhill for months), but HHH staying heel. If Rock wasn't going to be around, then HHH was the next logical choice, face HHH vs. heel Austin could have drawn huge, but I get the feeling they wanted to save that for Wrestlemania XVIII instead, and you saw the consequences.

 

The timing of the heel turn was off too. They should have started it at the Royal Rumble or immediately after.

This was key. Everyone was talking about that if anything was going to come out of the disaster of the Alliance angle, we would at least see Triple H vs. Austin (face vs. heel) at Wrestlemania 18. And it would of been the match.

 

To think if we had that, as well as Hogan/Rock.

 

But we know how that went.