The Czech Republic Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 I'm looking stuff up through Google, but if anyone can give any personal accounts of why the system is better or worse than the Americans, that would supplement my search quite nicely. Thanks. EDIT: This probably doesn't belong here but maybe political argument will happen so that it can?
Guest Phenom Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 On TV Nation, doctors competed to see how the health care systems of Cuba, Canada, and the Untied States stacked up. America came in last.
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 Going to nationmaster.com, clicking on Canada and then health should give you access to a bunch of statistics about health care in Canada.
Highland Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 An extremely brief synopsis. Pros: It's free (but paid for with high taxes) Cons: Long waiting lists.
Guest Cerebus Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 On TV Nation, doctors competed to see how the health care systems of Cuba, Canada, and the Untied States stacked up. America came in last. You mean Michael Moore ranked America below Cuba and/or Canada? I'm shocked.
Guest MikeSC Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 On TV Nation, doctors competed to see how the health care systems of Cuba, Canada, and the Untied States stacked up. America came in last. I'm shocked --- SHOCKED, I tell you --- that Michael Moore would do something like that. -=Mike
Red Baron Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 Stastically, the Canadian health care is better than the American health care. I mean its free. Though we pay for the lack of doctors and long waiting lines. Though I support a two-tier system though like some of those Scandinavian countries.
Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 I'm looking stuff up through Google, but if anyone can give any personal accounts of why the system is better or worse than the Americans, that would supplement my search quite nicely. Thanks. I've been able to get instant life saving treatment at many different candian hospitals. For free. And my taxes were(I say were because I'm not required to pay taxes right now) never blown up to the sky. I've also never had to wait long to get treatments and surgeries either. For free. I've only had one instance of dealing with a 'bad' doctor, of course that time nearly killed me, but whatever. My personal experience says that our health system rules the balls.
Your Paragon of Virtue Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 From what I've heard, Canadian med schools have higher standards then ones in the states. I've been told by many that those who don't get into a Canadian one, say, Queens, go to the States, where while expensive, is easier to get into. Canadian doctors are better educated, though a good deal move to the states where the money is so technically they are now American. Of course, all the people in this folder would not believe that, but hey, that's the way it is.
starvenger Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 Canadian doctors are better educated, though a good deal move to the states where the money is so technically they are now American. Of course, all the people in this folder would not believe that, but hey, that's the way it is. As a Canadian working in the US, I'm shocked and stunned by this info.
kkktookmybabyaway Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 What's wrong, Czech, you thinking of moving in with Bob? And next thing you're going to tell me is that TV Nation also compared gun death rates in America, Canada, England and Australia, with America coming in FIRST in firearm homicides...
Hogan Made Wrestling Posted November 21, 2004 Report Posted November 21, 2004 A common myth in both the United States and Canada: The only two possible health care systems in the world are the Canadian system and the American one. People from country A say A's system is better. Fact: The USA and Canada are both ranked in the 30s in the WHO's world health index (last time I checked), maybe about 5 spots apart. Discounting joke countries that have to be ranked but mean nothing (Monaco, San Marino, etc.) and occupy the top echelons, the Scandanavian systems (which are basically: everyone gets health care, and you can pay more money for better service) routinely rank ahead of the USA and Canada (and the rest of Europe, which is spread out over the course of the list). Of the Canadian and US systems, I'd argue that the US ranking is more impressive because they service 10 times as many people (and no, population is not taken into account by these rankings, hence Monaco being near the top of the list).
Guest Phenom Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 What's wrong, Czech, you thinking of moving in with Bob? And next thing you're going to tell me is that TV Nation also compared gun death rates in America, Canada, England and Australia, with America coming in FIRST in firearm homicides... That'd be plum CRAZY!
Guest MikeSC Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 What's wrong, Czech, you thinking of moving in with Bob? And next thing you're going to tell me is that TV Nation also compared gun death rates in America, Canada, England and Australia, with America coming in FIRST in firearm homicides... That'd be plum CRAZY! It's even weirder --- since Canada's crime rate is MUCH HIGHER than ours. In 2003, per 100,000 population, Canada had 8,530 crimes to the US 4,267. Violent crimes: Canada had 958 to the US' 523. Property crime: Canada had 4,275 to the US' 3,744. Source: Shockingly enough, http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.d.../411140310/1023 -=Mike
Lord of The Curry Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 The sheer irony of Mike posting Eberts facts which he stole from Fahrenheit 9/11 is over-fucking-whelming.
{''({o..o})''} Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Okay, I have to admit that is funny.
Guest MikeSC Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 The sheer irony of Mike posting Eberts facts which he stole from Fahrenheit 9/11 is over-fucking-whelming. It was "stolen" from Michael Moore Hates America And it's also 100% accurate. -=Mike
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Yeah. Higher property crime rates in Canada, higher violent crime rates in the US.
Guest MikeSC Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Yeah. Higher property crime rates in Canada, higher violent crime rates in the US. No --- higher violent crime rate in Canada. -=Mike
Highland Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Drug related crimes are down, but violent crime is up. Coincidence?
CanadianChris Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 I'm looking stuff up through Google, but if anyone can give any personal accounts of why the system is better or worse than the Americans, that would supplement my search quite nicely. Thanks. I've been able to get instant life saving treatment at many different candian hospitals. For free. And my taxes were(I say were because I'm not required to pay taxes right now) never blown up to the sky. I've also never had to wait long to get treatments and surgeries either. For free. I've only had one instance of dealing with a 'bad' doctor, of course that time nearly killed me, but whatever. My personal experience says that our health system rules the balls. This is true. You will never wait for treatment for a life-threatening condition. The Canadian system is based on urgency -- the more urgent your case, the faster you'll be seen. The number of Canadians who perceive problems with wait times is actually quite low.
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Yeah. Higher property crime rates in Canada, higher violent crime rates in the US. No --- higher violent crime rate in Canada. -=Mike Compared to the United States Canada has far lower rates of violent crime such as murder, assault, and rape. wikipedia Over the past 20 years, Canada recorded much lower rates of violent crime than the United States did. However, rates for property offences have generally been higher in Canada, according to a comparison of police-reported crime between the two nations. statcan the violent crime rate in Canada is 10 times lower than in the United States. slate Rates for all homicides are 3.8 times higher in the United States than in Canada. For 1987-96, the average homicide rate was 8.8 per 100,000 people in the U.S., compared to 2.3 per 100,000 in Canada. http://experts.about.com/q/351/661961.htm Murder rate (per 100,000 people) United States 8.40 Canada 5.45 Denmark 5.17 France 4.60 Portugal 4.50 Australia 4.48 Germany 4.20 Belgium 2.80 Spain 2.28 Switzerland 2.25 Italy 2.18 Norway 1.99 United Kingdom 1.97 Austria 1.80 Greece 1.76 Sweden 1.73 Japan 1.20 Ireland 0.96 Finland 0.70 Murder rate for males age 15-24 (per 100,000 people) United States 24.4 Canada 2.6 Sweden 2.3 Norway 2.3 Finland 2.3 Denmark 2.2 United Kingdom 2.0 Netherlands 1.2 Germany 0.9 Japan 0.5 Rape (per 100,000 people) United States 37.20 Sweden 15.70 Denmark 11.23 Germany 8.60 Norway 7.87 United Kingdom 7.26 Finland 7.20 France 6.77 Switzerland 6.15 Luxembourg 5.00 Spain 4.43 Austria 4.40 Belgium 4.00 Greece 2.40 Ireland 1.72 Japan 1.40 Portugal 1.20 Armed robbery (per 100,000 people) Spain 265 United States 221 Canada 94 France 90 Belgium 66 United Kingdom 63 Italy 50 Sweden 49 Germany 47 Ireland 46 Denmark 44 Finland 38 Switzerland 23 Norway 22 Greece 7 Japan 1 Where We Stand, Michael Wolff, Peter Rutten & Albert F. Bayers III and the World Rank Research Team (New York: Bantam Books, 1992), pp. 289-297. Police-reported crime figures show that Canada has low rates of violent crime and high rates of property crime. Since 1921, Canada's homicide rate, just slightly above 2 per 100,000 population (it peaked at 3.1 in 1973), has consistently been less than 1/3 that of the United States Encyclopedia of Criminology Canada has about 550 murders per year, a number that is steadily decreasing. This is equivalent to numbers in most of the western world, except the U.S. which has triple the number per capita.
Guest MikeSC Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Funny, I have actual stats and you have anecdotes and quite outdated evidence (notice I used 2003 figures and you used 1987-1996 Cute. -=Mike
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Roger Ebert and Michael Moore Hates America? I'm trying to find one source to verify Ebert...I'll keep looking.
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 The violent crime rate in Canada has fallen 11 percent since 1993. canadaonline Article published in 2003.
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 The rate of violent criminal incidents per capita had been decreasing throughout most of the 1990s, though in 2001, it remained 6% higher than in 1989. In 2002, the rate decreased in most major categories of violent crime, including attempted murder, assault, robbery and abduction. http://142.206.72.67/04/04b/04b_002a_e.htm Canada's national crime rate increased 6% in 2003, its first substantial gain in over a decade. The increase was driven by a surge in counterfeiting across the country, as well as an increase in most property crimes and minor offences such as mischief and disturbing the peace. The violent crime rate remained virtually unchanged statcan
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 No luck, guess we're just gonna have to take Ebert's word for it.
Guest MikeSC Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 No luck, guess we're just gonna have to take Ebert's word for it. Considering that Ebert loathes the President and has no reason to back up the word from Michael Moore Hates America --- yeah, I guess you will. -=Mike
Big Ol' Smitty Posted November 22, 2004 Report Posted November 22, 2004 Note: I don't really care whose violent crime rate is higher. But... Preponderance of evidence vs. Roger Ebert, Michael Moore Hates America We report, you decide.
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