Batista over Benoit

[Dangerous K89 0]

Actually, I really enjoyed his RNN promos.

[zyn081 0]

You stupid shits. Batista did not pin Benoit clean. He pinned him shortly after ramming his head 3 times into the exposed metal part of the turnbuckle. The loss made logical sense. Benoit beat Batista clean earlier last year, not to mention all of those tag team victories over him and mostly Flair.

He should have been DQed. Ive made this point elsewhere that if you do anything of the sort the ref should DQed you.

 

HOWEVER, the turnbuckle is part of the ring and I do believe that, just as the steel steps can be used, so can an exposed turnbuckle or the tag ties to strangle your opponent. You have to break by the 5 count.

[zyn081 0]

The way I see it is this:

 

1) Triple H isn't moving down from the top heel position anytime soon

 

2) We saw Benoit vs Triple H a few times last year, and they feuded for most of the year.

 

3) Batista moving into Benoit's spot is good because it sets up Batista/Triple H, which is really the only match I can think of that hasn't been done so many times that I may actually pay to see it.

 

Plus, Benoit still looked strong last night. Losing to a guy as big and strong as Batista isn't going to make him look bad. Coming into the match they were about even odds to win, and they booked the match so that it looked like it could have gone either way.

Thats my point. But it was done at the expense of Benoit, who is sliding down the pecking order fast. I know, feeding Benoit to Batista makes Big Dave look more believable, but it makes Benoit look bad. They couldnt have used Jericho or Orton. Using Benjamin would make him look weak before his IC defense. Eugene is no longer taken seriously. Regal never was. That leaves Benoit, just a shame he was fodder for Batista.

90% of the fans will forget about this match in two weeks, maybe by next week depending on the reaction to the elimination chamber. It did help Batista, but I don't think Benoit will have a problem keeping the crowd on his side and being looked at as a contender for the title. It wasn't a squash for Batista anyways. Either guy could have won, and Benoit has beaten Batista before. If Batista beats Benoit again cleanly next week and the week after that, then you guys will have valid complaints.

It will be forgotten. For sure it will be. Its just a clear sign that Benoit has sliped down the corporate ladder. That is my point.

[Angle-plex 0]

Benjamin is not the next Rock. He is really just gonna be the face equivalent of Christian, like I said before. People will think of Benjamin as being a guy who could be a challenger for anything, just not the main belt. He's gonna be bounced around the card just like Christian and people will quit caring about him, but he'll always will get them back, only to have them lose interest once again, due to booking. He's just gonna be a second tier guy.

Indeed. Benjamin, like Christian, has no personality or gimmick other than "Generic Midcard Face/Heel". Same goes for Maven.

 

Orton could have been something but they already blew it with him, and I don't think they can make him the next Austin/Rock superstar they hoped for. Cena can't (or at least hasn't) cut a promo that would make me want to see one his matches yet either, so unless he improves he shouldn't get past midcard status.

[zyn081 0]

Benjamin is not the next Rock. He is really just gonna be the face equivalent of Christian, like I said before. People will think of Benjamin as being a guy who could be a challenger for anything, just not the main belt. He's gonna be bounced around the card just like Christian and people will quit caring about him, but he'll always will get them back, only to have them lose interest once again, due to booking. He's just gonna be a second tier guy.

Indeed. Benjamin, like Christian, has no personality or gimmick other than "Generic Midcard Face/Heel". Same goes for Maven.

 

Orton could have been something but they already blew it with him, and I don't think they can make him the next Austin/Rock superstar they hoped for. Cena can't (or at least hasn't) cut a promo that would make me want to see one his matches yet either, so unless he improves he shouldn't get past midcard status.

I still remember his one before his match with Lesnar, the one after Brock put him out.

 

I remember it clearly, that it was very well done. "Were inmates now Brock, and you just dropped the soap".

[zyn081 0]

Actually, I really enjoyed his RNN promos.

I thought he came across as being a whiney snotty nosed kid, that hadnt done anything to make me care about him.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Hes thus taken 2 steps back. Going back to Evolution is 5 steps back, youve killed the guy before hes even begining to touch his prime.

 

Set him back a year, tops. You mentioned before he's a young guy, he can afford it. Infact, he needs it because he achieved too much too soon it would actually prolong his career and not burn him out.

 

The only way that angle would work is if hes made, and this will happen, HHH's bitch.

 

Yep. Thus putting more heat on him for being a pussy.

 

Your also prolonging Evolution by another 2 years that way, and Randy want be able to even sniff at a singles belt before then.

 

Evolution will be there as long as Ric Flair is still wrestling and HHH wants to be around him.

 

Might as well send him back to OVW.

 

If it would help his promos and moves, sure. But there's still a heel angle they could do with him and the RAW side needs another heel.

 

But at the moment, a Benoit face isnt doing anything for me either. He is not bulletproof, he is highly respeceted, theirs a difference. HBK, Foley, The Rock, UT, Austin and HHH are bulletproof, everybody else such as Jericho, Booker, RVD, Eddy and Benoit are respected.

 

I'll kill two birds with one stone here. Have Benoit go away for 3-6 months for X reason. Get grizzled like a motherfucker. Full-out lumberjack beard goin on, frizzled hair, etc. Have a wrestler for Y reason try to "find" Benoit and bring him back. The details are important but I'm lazy right now and don't care enough to go into them. I just like the idea of exhiled Benoit w/ beard.

 

Why ugh? Is there anybody else?

 

It was such a cliched response. Orton has already been champ, how is he the "future" when he already peaked?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You stupid shits. Batista did not pin Benoit clean. He pinned him shortly after ramming his head 3 times into the exposed metal part of the turnbuckle.

 

I didn't say Batista pinned Benoit clean. I said he pinned him with his back on the mat. The part which got focus was Batista picking Benoit up from the crossface, not the turnbuckle spot. Ross didn't go on about "That damn Batista using the exposed steel", it was more like "That monster Batista's power is amazing!"

 

The loss made logical sense. Benoit beat Batista clean earlier last year, not to mention all of those tag team victories over him and mostly Flair.

 

Actually, the loss didn't make any "logical sense", as Benoit defeated Batista countless times and yet now Batista bests him. Why? NOTHING has changed other than they are pushing Batista now. Batista didn't "learn", he didn't train specifically to counter the crossface, he hasn't been working out more, he didn't eat any magic beans, there is no reason other than law of averages. And it wasn't presented as that.

[zyn081 0]

Hes thus taken 2 steps back. Going back to Evolution is 5 steps back, youve killed the guy before hes even begining to touch his prime.

 

Set him back a year, tops. You mentioned before he's a young guy, he can afford it. Infact, he needs it because he achieved too much too soon it would actually prolong his career and not burn him out.

 

The only way that angle would work is if hes made, and this will happen, HHH's bitch.

 

Yep. Thus putting more heat on him for being a pussy.

 

Your also prolonging Evolution by another 2 years that way, and Randy want be able to even sniff at a singles belt before then.

 

Evolution will be there as long as Ric Flair is still wrestling and HHH wants to be around him.

 

Might as well send him back to OVW.

 

If it would help his promos and moves, sure. But there's still a heel angle they could do with him and the RAW side needs another heel.

 

But at the moment, a Benoit face isnt doing anything for me either. He is not bulletproof, he is highly respeceted, theirs a difference. HBK, Foley, The Rock, UT, Austin and HHH are bulletproof, everybody else such as Jericho, Booker, RVD, Eddy and Benoit are respected.

 

I'll kill two birds with one stone here. Have Benoit go away for 3-6 months for X reason. Get grizzled like a motherfucker. Full-out lumberjack beard goin on, frizzled hair, etc. Have a wrestler for Y reason try to "find" Benoit and bring him back. The details are important but I'm lazy right now and don't care enough to go into them. I just like the idea of exhiled Benoit w/ beard.

 

Why ugh? Is there anybody else?

 

It was such a cliched response. Orton has already been champ, how is he the "future" when he already peaked?

Hes needs that monster run with the title and I am putting money on him beating Flairs record. I joke. I think the damage of being a HHH bitch is permanent unfortunately, look at Jericho. I would hate to see him grovel to HHH as Jericho did to Stephanie.

 

I would like to see one last run for Flair as a face. The sooner Evo implodes, the sooner that will happen.

 

Yes, agreed, but HHH is the number 1 heel god damn it Id prefer it if HHH took 3-6 months off.

 

Id hardly say that youngest champ in WWE history has peaked.

[zyn081 0]

You stupid shits. Batista did not pin Benoit clean. He pinned him shortly after ramming his head 3 times into the exposed metal part of the turnbuckle.

 

I didn't say Batista pinned Benoit clean. I said he pinned him with his back on the mat. The part which got focus was Batista picking Benoit up from the crossface, not the turnbuckle spot. Ross didn't go on about "That damn Batista using the exposed steel", it was more like "That monster Batista's power is amazing!"

 

The loss made logical sense. Benoit beat Batista clean earlier last year, not to mention all of those tag team victories over him and mostly Flair.

 

Actually, the loss didn't make any "logical sense", as Benoit defeated Batista countless times and yet now Batista bests him. Why? NOTHING has changed other than they are pushing Batista now. Batista didn't "learn", he didn't train specifically to counter the crossface, he hasn't been working out more, he didn't eat any magic beans, there is no reason other than law of averages. And it wasn't presented as that.

Why cant it be a case of the fact that you learn with experience. If hes submitted to the crossface so many times, surely you find a way to counter it. I think this actually does make logical sense, and should have been up-played more, along with the fact that HHH has yet to recently beat Benoit in 1-on-1 competition.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

90% of the fans will forget about this match in two weeks, maybe by next week depending on the reaction to the elimination chamber.

 

Of course. If Batista continues on with Evolution then his face status becomes next to nil. That's not the context of the original post.

 

It did help Batista, but I don't think Benoit will have a problem keeping the crowd on his side and being looked at as a contender for the title.

 

If you've been reading my responses in this thread, you would have gotten this. I'll say it again. Benoit drops down a spot, so whether or not the fans "remember it" won't matter because the _result_ of it is Batista moves up over Benoit. Which will be felt 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks from now. Benoit is the _least_ likely guy to win the Elimination Chamber, going by RAW.

 

It wasn't a squash for Batista anyways. Either guy could have won, and Benoit has beaten Batista before. If Batista beats Benoit again cleanly next week and the week after that, then you guys will have valid complaints.

 

You don't get it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Hes needs that monster run with the title and I am putting money on him beating Flairs record. I joke. I think the damage of being a HHH bitch is permanent unfortunately, look at Jericho. I would hate to see him grovel to HHH as Jericho did to Stephanie.

 

The end-result of Orton in Evolution would be Orton usurp HHH's position as leader and HHH goes face. At the start Orton has to pay his dues in Evolution; he doesn't want to do any of it, he hates HHH, but he needs to get back on track and Evolution put him on track. He "sells out". HHH's pseudo-torture puts Orton over the edge and creates a heel even greater than he. I think that could work for Orton.

 

Id hardly say that youngest champ in WWE history has peaked.

 

What else is there to do? He still has 8 (+) years in the WWE, you have to spread that out. Right now Orton is the "present". Personally, I wouldn't bank on him being what saves the WWE but whatever.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Why cant it be a case of the fact that you learn with experience. If hes submitted to the crossface so many times, surely you find a way to counter it. I think this actually does make logical sense, and should have been up-played more, along with the fact that HHH has yet to recently beat Benoit in 1-on-1 competition.

 

I dunno, why can't it be a case of the fact you learn with experience? You ask the WWE that because they're the ones booking, THEY presented it as "Bah Gawd Batista is so STRONG!" and ignored their previous encounters, so it isn't the case. Just don't ask me why.

[Angle-plex 0]

It did help Batista, but I don't think Benoit will have a problem keeping the crowd on his side and being looked at as a contender for the title.

 

If you've been reading my responses in this thread, you would have gotten this.  I'll say it again.  Benoit drops down a spot, so whether or not the fans "remember it" won't matter because the _result_ of it is Batista moves up over Benoit.  Which will be felt 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks from now.  Benoit is the _least_ likely guy to win the Elimination Chamber, going by RAW.

I know that Batista moved into Benoit's spot. I just don't consider it a bad thing. Benoit was in the main event scene so much last year that there isn't that many place they can go with him anymore (Jericho is a face, Edge won't take Triple H's #1 heel spot this soon in the year, Orton, Trips, and HBK have been done). By pushing Batista into Benoit's top babyface spot (maybe #2 depending on Orton) they have more storyline and match possiblities available to them.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I dunno, why can't it be a case of the fact you learn with experience? You ask the WWE that because they're the ones booking, THEY presented it as "Bah Gawd Batista is so STRONG!" and ignored their previous encounters, so it isn't the case. Just don't ask me why.

 

But wh. . .oh, nevermind.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I know that Batista moved into Benoit's spot. I just don't consider it a bad thing. Benoit was in the main event scene so much last year that there isn't that many place they can go with him anymore (Jericho is a face, Edge won't take Triple H's #1 heel spot this soon in the year, Orton, Trips, and HBK have been done).

 

I question Benoits place in the "main event scene". He wasn't made a superstar like Rock or Austin where he can afford to move around and still be able to go up the card. They can very easily put Benoit down in the IC division like they did with Jericho and leave him there and he'll die there. They can go other places with Benoit, it just takes more creativity than "let's turn him heel"/"Let's put him on Smackdown"/"Lets forget about it".

By pushing Batista into Benoit's top babyface spot (maybe #2 depending on Orton) they have more storyline and match possiblities available to them.

 

Never said that wasn't the case. This thread is about the match hurting Benoit, which it did.

[clean rob 0]

HHH goes face.

You say this like it is a good thing. If it's a choice between HHH at top heel or top face (and pretty clearly, it is) then Trips as heel is infinitely preferable.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

HHH will have to go face eventually -I imagine he wasn't too satisfied with his last face run- and I didn't say it was a good thing, I said it was a good thing for Orton.

[Guest Coffey]

I'm glad that Batista went over Benoit relatively clean because at least Batista is somewhat entertaining. Benoit is as bland as white rice. Seriously.

 

Suplex, suplex, suplex...shoulder submission. Oh shi...didn't work...random Sharpshooter.

 

When you see someone like Chris Benoit conform to WWE style...it's really sad.

[Dark Age 0]

Nope.

[clean rob 0]

HHH will have to go face eventually -I imagine he wasn't too satisfied with his last face run- and I didn't say it was a good thing, I said it was a good thing for Orton.

 

 

Well, you suggested it, and that's crime enough. I am holding out on the fact that Trips is smart enough to recognize that he does not play a good face, and will hold out on any further attempts at a face run until his twilight years as a worker - or at least as long as he wishes to remain on top, which I assume will be the same thing.

 

And for the record, I don't believe the loss last night hurt Benoit significantly. Although it may have put Benoit below Batista in the current 'pecking order' (and I'm not even sure that is true), it isn't like there is an exact number of wrestlers who can be considered legit main eventers at any one time. Ask yourself: does the audience consider Benoit any less of a title threat than they did before this last Raw? (i.e. a possible, but outside, chance) Was the loss considered, or sold as, an upset? I think not.

[Angle-plex 0]

By pushing Batista into Benoit's top babyface spot (maybe #2 depending on Orton) they have more storyline and match possiblities available to them.

 

Never said that wasn't the case.  This thread is about the match hurting Benoit, which it did.

The match definetly hurt Benoit - I'm not disagreeing. I do think some people are blowing how bad it hurt him out of proportion. It hurt him in the sense that the "order" now goes something like Triple H - Orton - Batista - Benoit - Edge - Jericho, but the crowd would still buy it if Benoit won the elimination chamber., and now that Batista has been so dominate in the last few weeks they could buy him winning it as well. The match helped Batista more than it hurt Benoit, so IMO it was worth it.

[Guest LooneyTune]

When Benoit jobs clean to Tyson Tomko, then we can really complain about his jobbing (he lost 3 matches all year on RAW clean it seems... pretty bad booking indeed (SARCASM!)).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Benoit went from being 1 of 2 guys to have the title (he and Edge), 1 of 3 guys to dispute it (w. HHH), to the LAST of 6 likely to win the belt. Think about it.

 

Benoit faced Tomko on Heat I believe. Win or Lose, that's a hit.

[clean rob 0]

I don't believe that is the case. There was never any point in time (including straight after the Raw with the triple threat) when HHH seemed out of the running for the title. Indeed, many round here were saying that it was obvious Trips was getting the title back due to the controversy.

 

Currently, I would place Benoit ahead of both Jericho (definitely), Edge (debatable) and Batista (debatable) in terms of likelihood of walking out of NYR with the belt. HHH has always been higher up the card than Benoit, so no change there. Orton has been having the WM ME push for 8 months now, so the Benoit hasn't really been shunted down below him recently. The ONLY wrestler who may have 'moved up the pecking order' above Benoit due to the Batista match is Batista, so how you figure it's made him the least likely of the 6 men to win at NYR is beyond me.

[NoCalMike 0]

Batista for the most part wrestles like your average muscled out roid monster. Lots of punches kicks, even more "ROAAAAAAAAR"-ing after a move as simple as a bodyslam, and then the long drawn out setup for the finisher, in this case, the powerbomb. The match was decent because Benoit sold well, and obviously had no problem putting Batista over as a monster. However Batista himself didn't do anything Albert couldn't do.

[Vyce 0]

You stupid shits. Batista did not pin Benoit clean. He pinned him shortly after ramming his head 3 times into the exposed metal part of the turnbuckle.

 

I didn't say Batista pinned Benoit clean. I said he pinned him with his back on the mat. The part which got focus was Batista picking Benoit up from the crossface, not the turnbuckle spot. Ross didn't go on about "That damn Batista using the exposed steel", it was more like "That monster Batista's power is amazing!"

THANK YOU.

 

Jim Ross has a fucking coronary whenever a heel like HHH or Flair or Christian or etc., even does something that's even remotely illegal, be it something simply like a poke in the eyes, but he didn't say ONE WORD about Batista deliberately using the exposed turnbuckle.

 

THAT, for me, is what made that match a clear demotion for Benoit. More than anything. If it had been presented that Batista had cheated, even in the SLIGHTEST, to win, then Benoit would have had a modicum of protection, but there was *nothing*.

 

The entire goal of that match was to put over Batista at the expense of Benoit, and it succeeded.

[CanadianChick 0]

I didn't have a problem with Batista looking as good as he did. Not at all actually. But it should have been Jericho instead of Benoit. As RRR mentioned, Benoit now, logically, is the number 6 guy in the EC. Before last night, Jericho was the number six guy (Edge/Benoit/HHH had the title in dispute, Batista is on a major role, and Orton is, well, Orton). Why unnessesarly take a strong contender in Benoit and make him weaker? Now instead of thinking 5 guys have a really strong chance at winning (everybody but Jericho), only 4 guys look like they have a strong chance.

[reign 0]

My biggest problem with this and the whole Raw was that it was done on Raw and not on PPV or at least after the elimination chamber on a Raw. These three matches should be PPV caliber matches but as usual they've been stuck on Raw where we get the typical fall to the floor and JR screaming "Folks we'll be back!" on each occasion and instead of 15 or 30 minutes we get 7 to 14 minutes of in ring action. I don't care that Batista beat Benoit and yeah they should recognize that he cheated but understand that Benoit has been around for years and years and he's not gonna get that run that many of us would want like they did with Bret, taking on all comers. Benoit has all of our respect but Batista is hot right now and making him a monster is gold. A few months ago everybody was screaming about how Batista sold too much and should be a monster! Well here he comes and not a moment too soon. The best heat has always been when someone takes something from the fans and Batista will only be face long enough to turn on us and then he should take the title. The best situation would be a face Batista turning on a champion like Benoit and then having a hot face chase the monster for the title. I thought it worked with Yokozuna(I don't want to here about buyrates) and it worked for Vader in WCW so it can work again. Batista has beaten Benoit twice in 4 weeks and now looks stronger than ever and now all of a sudden we have a fresh star for the main event. Benoit is in that main event and has had more chances at the title recently with the exception of HBK and HHH. That's pretty good company if you ask me.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Batista has beaten Benoit twice in 4 weeks

 

I was wondering when someone was going to mention that.