Meltzer on Batista

[Guest Loss]

This was in the recent feedback post on the Observer site and Meltzer touched on an interesting point, and I was curious what you guys thought about it.

 

BATISTA

 

When Hunter was on OTR he touched briefly on setting up the younger guys

since they'll have to take the reigns for the company. He tossed Batista's

name in with the likes of Orton and Cena, but he'll be turning 36 January

18th.

 

With that said, I think if they want to get anything out of this guy they

need to push him ASAP. Personally I don't see him as championship material,

but I was just curious as to what you thought of him. I mean I would mark

out if Hunter was the only guy in the Chamber when Batista was let loose and

he absolutely demolished HHH and won, but to me that seems like a one-time

thing (kind of like when Steiner debuted at SSeries). Plus his title

defenses would rival JBL's as far as influencing me NOT to order a WWE PPV.

 

Just curious as to what your thoughts are on the subject.

 

Ryan Wagner

 

DM: You've hit on a point a lot of people haven't thought through in their excitement over how well done Batista's vignettes have been. You never know, but my gut tells me with the spotlight on him as champion, people will start seeing his limitations. It's often far better to be the No. 4 guy or even no. 2 guy in the brand unless you've got the real charisma to carry things. I'm not sure Batista is not a Sting or Luger, who made people think it would be great if they finally got the title because the people were behind them, only to find when they did, people didn't care because they couldn't live up to the level people associated champions to perform at.

[Black Lushus 0]

I don't think he'd get good buy rates, but who does anymore? Hell give him the belt, if anything let him lameduck it for a couple of months...like i've said before, throw the shit against the wall and see if it sticks...

[Guest carnage]

I don't think he's got the mike skills to be a good champion. I mean sure he's got a great physique and all, but he hasn't demonstrated he's charismatic enough to make people really excited. Time will tell.

[Zack Malibu 0]

While I don't think Batista would be able to carry his title matches, and defenses against the likes of Kane or Snitsky would be less than stellar, I think he's got the goods to be worthy of a title. Definitely much more than JBL has. The problem with him going face is that RAW would be in desperate need of heels, as Benoit, Jericho, Orton, Benjamin, Michaels and Batista would all be upper card faces, as opposed to Triple H, Edge, and...well that's it. I won't say Flair only because he's not full time and shouldn't be at this point.

 

I think he's got the look, he's improved tons in the ring, and he doesn't need to be a twenty minute promo cutting champion. I do hope they run with it, because it's obvious it's one of the few things fans want to see that they seem intent on actually doing.

[Mole 0]

Woah, he is 36?

[Guest Loss]

Do you think it's fair to compare Batista to Sting or Luger though?

[Black Lushus 0]

no, not until we see what happens when he gets the belt...i'd say fan reaction is difently different these days compared to the 80s and 90s so perhaps he'd succeed where they failed?

[Zack Malibu 0]

I find him better than Luger both in the ring and less bland as a character, though I don't see him at a Sting "superstar" level...yet. I have a feeling the title win could put him over the top, as long as he's "made" in winning it, like Rock did for Brock.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think he's more like the Diesel to HHH's Shawn Michaels.

[CanadianChris 0]

Batista getting the belt now would be as bad as Hogan getting the belt in 2002. Just because the fans are majorly behind a guy doesn't mean you have to hotshot the belt onto him at the first opportunity.

 

Sting and Luger were more victims of the bookers saying, "Well, he's champ...what do we do with him now?" I can definitely seeing Batista going down that road, especially with the writing team the way it is now.

[SuperJerk 0]

I think him chasing the belt might draw big, but once he gets it, I'm not sure he can stay at the top.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The problem is this...

 

Batista is over mainly in relation to HHH. By that I mean, fans want to see Batista kick HHH's ass. So what happens after he feuds with HHH and he's champ? He's not a sympathetic character, and he gets over on being big and strong. So does he do the Goldberg thing and squash a bunch of guys, or does he do the Diesel thing and feud with Mable? Both don't really benefit anyone, so he'd be a limited champion.

[Zack Malibu 0]

Batista/Edge as a prolonged feud could work. In a similar vein to the Orton/Edge scenario, Edge could state that he's waited so long, gone through so much, and just when he was about to get it, some "flavor of the week" steps in and takes what's his. You could have Edge playing his psycho veteran with a bug up his ass, and Batista willing to prove himself worthy of being a champion.

[Guest dropkickguy]

For most wrestlers teh chase is far greater than the actual title run, i.e Orton, Sting, Luger. Typically a wrestlers first title run signafies his arrival to the top echillon. Only the true greats make the most of their first title run. Good solid booking also helps.

 

I don't think that Batista being over as much as he is merrits having the belt put on him just yet. I agree with those who say his first title run will be a dissapointment, but I would due to bad booking. With all this said I think that Batista will make for searies of great title defenses once he is more established as a top tier champion. I don't expect Batista to suffer from Zach Gowen sindrome.

[iliketurtles 0]

I think they are going with HHH/Batista at Mania...and Edge (champion) vs. HBK or Benoit for the title at Mania.

[Guest Loss]

I can't see HHH not defending the belt at Wrestlemania.

 

I tend to think we're going to get HHH v Orton v Batista with Flair in a neutral corner where his alliances are constantly questioned as part of the build, Edge v HBK and Benoit doing something thrown together at the last minute.

[MARTYEWR 0]

I'm scared to ask, Loss, but where do you think Jericho's headed as far as WrestleMania goes?

[Guest Loss]

I'd like to see either him or Benoit turn heel and them work a program since they're not doing anything else. I could see them doing *another* Jericho v Christian match since they have no idea what else to do with either of them. I could also see him and Benoit forming a tag team and facing La Resistance in a match far too low on the card.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

I can't even think of anywhere where Jericho would be right now. Maybe IC title shot against Benjamin. No clue...

 

All I have to say is this... strike while the iron is hot. Batista is on the role of his life, he's getting over well, the fans respond to him, and he is totally owning every segment he is in. Give him the title before he cools off.

[iliketurtles 0]

I can't see HHH not defending the belt at Wrestlemania.

 

I tend to think we're going to get HHH v Orton v Batista with Flair in a neutral corner where his alliances are constantly questioned as part of the build, Edge v HBK and Benoit doing something thrown together at the last minute.

Evolution 3 way isn't that bad of an idea. But I would still want Edge champ and defending against either HBK or Benoit.

 

*Throws up at the idea of HHH champ and a 3 way for the main event at Mania...again*'

 

More than likely, HBK will cause the HHH loss @ NYR, and it will be HHH/HBK @ Mania in a retirement match.

[Guest Loss]

I would have no complaints with a retirement match, provided it was a legit stip and both the winner and loser were required to leave the company forever.

 

I hope HHH's next movie makes a billion dollars.

[The C Man 0]

I agree with Rudo. I think that Batista is over big with the fans because they want to see him kick Triple H's ass; not because they want him to win the title.

[Zack Malibu 0]

HBK won't cost Triple H the match, he'll cost Edge the match. That much is obvious.

[zyn081 0]

The problem with him going face is that RAW would be in desperate need of heels, as Benoit, Jericho, Orton, Benjamin, Michaels and Batista would all be upper card faces, as opposed to Triple H, Edge, and...well that's it.

 

Benoit. Must. Turn. Heel.

 

I have a feeling the title win could put him over the top, as long as he's "made" in winning it, like Rock did for Brock.

 

Cant see this happening. Brock connected with the fans in a much better way and did so more quickly. And that was Brocks gimmick, that he won the title in just 5 months.

 

I think he's more like the Diesel to HHH's Shawn Michaels.

 

I dont really see it like that. Diesel was more a hoss to the cocky Michaels.

 

Sting and Luger were more victims of the bookers saying, "Well, he's champ...what do we do with him now?" I can definitely seeing Batista going down that road, especially with the writing team the way it is now.

 

Doesnt this just always seem to happen in the WWE so I dont see whats new here.

 

The problem is this...Batista is over mainly in relation to HHH. By that I mean, fans want to see Batista kick HHH's ass. So what happens after he feuds with HHH and he's champ? He's not a sympathetic character, and he gets over on being big and strong. So does he do the Goldberg thing and squash a bunch of guys, or does he do the Diesel thing and feud with Mable? Both don't really benefit anyone, so he'd be a limited champion.

 

Face a returning Brock maybe, if that was a concrete possibility maybe.

 

Zack Malibu Posted on Jan 6 2005, 01:54 PM

 

Batista/Edge as a prolonged feud could work. In a similar vein to the Orton/Edge scenario, Edge could state that he's waited so long, gone through so much, and just when he was about to get it, some "flavor of the week" steps in and takes what's his. You could have Edge playing his psycho veteran with a bug up his ass, and Batista willing to prove himself worthy of being a champion.

 

This could work till Brocks supposed return. And it make sense. Wait. Sorry. Just saw the problem. WWE will never book this.

 

dropkickguy Posted on Jan 6 2005, 01:57 PM

 

For most wrestlers teh chase is far greater than the actual title run, i.e Orton, Sting, Luger. Typically a wrestlers first title run signafies his arrival to the top echillon. Only the true greats make the most of their first title run. Good solid booking also helps.

 

I don't think that Batista being over as much as he is merrits having the belt put on him just yet. I agree with those who say his first title run will be a dissapointment, but I would due to bad booking. With all this said I think that Batista will make for searies of great title defenses once he is more established as a top tier champion. I don't expect Batista to suffer from Zach Gowen sindrome.

 

I agree entirely with this point. Who has made the most with his first title run. But I think it should come after WM. Hes got people to feud with. HHH, Edge, Orton, Benoit, Jericho, HBK and Kane.

 

Loss Posted on Jan 6 2005, 02:06 PM

 

I can't see HHH not defending the belt at Wrestlemania.

 

I tend to think we're going to get HHH v Orton v Batista with Flair in a neutral corner where his alliances are constantly questioned as part of the build, Edge v HBK and Benoit doing something thrown together at the last minute.

 

 

How long have I been pimping an Evo 4-way at WM. I like the 3-way idea though.

 

I think more its a case of Orton winning the EC. What may work was him then losing it to HBK at the RR, who then goes on to face Edge. Thats the only way I can see HBK-Edge at WM.

 

I prefer an Evo 4-way, Jericho-Benoit for World Title and HBK-Rock.

 

Or Batista-HHH, Jericho-Benoit for World Title, Orton-Rock and HBK-Angle (as a SD!, sort of after EC, HBK says that hes done everything on RAW and jumps ship at the RR).

 

Loss Posted on Jan 6 2005, 02:13 PM

 

I'd like to see either him or Benoit turn heel and them work a program since they're not doing anything else. I could see them doing *another* Jericho v Christian match since they have no idea what else to do with either of them. I could also see him and Benoit forming a tag team and facing La Resistance in a match far too low on the card.

 

The 1st one please. Benoit's turn to turn, sinces hes been longer. And it should be for the HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE OF THE WORLD. Give them 45 mins.

 

Muggy Posted on Jan 6 2005, 02:14 PM

 

All I have to say is this... strike while the iron is hot. Batista is on the role of his life, he's getting over well, the fans respond to him, and he is totally owning every segment he is in. Give him the title before he cools off.

 

Yes, yes and yes. Just chuck it and see what sticks. Just not until after WM.

 

The C Man Posted on Jan 6 2005, 02:40 PM

 

I agree with Rudo. I think that Batista is over big with the fans because they want to see him kick Triple H's ass; not because they want him to win the title.

 

Whats wrong with that?

 

Zack Malibu Posted on Jan 6 2005, 03:50 PM

 

HBK won't cost Triple H the match, he'll cost Edge the match. That much is obvious.

 

That would make more sense. But I still prefer Jericho-Benoit for the Title.

Edited January 6, 2005 by zyn081

[Zack Malibu 0]

Another related question is how do they go about the Chamber eliminations? At this point Benoit and Jericho are after thoughts, Edge will obviously get screwed by Michaels somehow (unless he wins and Shawn makes the reluctant count, which I'd highly doubt). How does "chosen one" Orton go down, and since it's obvious Trips and Batista will eliminate each other, how does the survivor of those two go out? You can't have Batista pin Trips, get the big pop, and then fall down to an Edgeucator or something.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

Is Batista good enough to be the next big thing? Probably not, at least as a face.

 

Is the Batista/HHH feud worthy of a WMXXI title match? Undoubtedly, especially given the alternatives. It would certainly be what the fans wanted to see on the biggest night of the wrestling year, even if he's gone by Summerslam.

 

He's pretty much in the same situation as Benoit pre WMXX booking-wise.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Orton will take out Batista after Batista cleans out Benoit and Jericho, and then maybe Edge.

[Zack Malibu 0]

I just had another thought. Last year, we saw Eddie get his due at No Way Out, and have a successful defense at WM, while the night was focused on Benoit's big win. Wouldn't (reportedly) having both Cena and Orton (or Batista) getting their big wins in the same night water things down?

[KingPK 0]

The C Man Posted on Jan 6 2005, 02:40 PM

 

I agree with Rudo. I think that Batista is over big with the fans because they want to see him kick Triple H's ass; not because they want him to win the title. 

 

Whats wrong with that?

 

What's next for Batista after that? Can he hold that fan support in a feud against Edge? There really isn't much after that if he's a face. Actually, even if he turns back to heel, we've seen him with Jericho a million times, same with Benoit. A feud with Orton would probably be interesting.

 

JBL seems to be the total opposite from Batsta: has the charisma and ability to cut good promos, but hasn't shown the goods in the ring to justify keeping a top title for, what, 6 months now?

[King Cucaracha 0]

Rudo brings up a point. Batista would work in the Goldberg/Austin mould. Have him become a tweener, because he can't trust Evolution or the anti-Evolution threesome (or foursome with HBK). Batista has the Spinebuster/Sitout Powerbomb to rival the Spear/Jackhammer, as both are getting the crowd reactions. He has better mic skills than Goldberg. All he needs is the renegade persona of an Austin, put him in some three/four on one situations where he fights valiantly but goes down. A few run-ins and demolishes to end shows. Maybe even a few Austin, chaotic acts.

 

That way, you play to Batista's strengths and hide the weaknesses. Then when you put him in the ring, play the strengths hide the weaknesses. Just as Vince did with Austin after his injury and just as WCW did with Goldberg. Heck, just as Heyman did with a 911. If they do that, then Batista could be a big star. He has the look. Not just the 'he's big' look, but he looks a star in the suits. He's pretty marketable I'd bet. He intimidating enough to pull off the lonewolf role.