Who reads the TSM content site?

[Guest Loss]

GTD, I think that's a great idea, actually. You know, covering Flair may be a really good starting point. I already have tons of his matches on tape, and I'd only need to fill a few small holes, mainly from the 1970s and his more modern work.

[Dr. Tom 0]

are there difficulties the site has with using the article manager that i don't know about? i never had any problems with it.

With the respect of posting articles, no. It's easy to use and does what we need it to.

 

But if you want to overhaul it, it's a fucking disaster. It's an out-of-date version, and we'd have to pay more money for a new version that might not do what we want it to do. Article Manager was one of the huge stumbling blocks in the front-page revamp we were trying to do over the summer. Scrapping it in favor of a different content system would make things easier from the administration perspective.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Heck, I'd love to ditch the rasslin' altogether and just be a pop culture site, but our wrestling writers are good and dedicated, and I'm not going to do that to them.

 

(Yet.)

 

(Muahahahaha.)

 

So posting "shows" where people are pretending to be wrestlers -- which means they're pretending to be people who pretend to beat each other up -- is not something I want us to get into on the mainpage. I think we posted one or two before, and the reaction was not positive.

It would be hilarious to see wrestling, which I would think was what brought the creation of this board to be, ditched all together.

 

I really just meant like links to the threads of the shows or something...I dunno.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

But if you want to overhaul it, it's a fucking disaster. It's an out-of-date version, and we'd have to pay more money for a new version that might not do what we want it to do.

or you could (put in spoiler mode so Government Agent Popick doesn't see)

 

pirate a copy

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Article Manager was always a bitch to use for some reason. I seemed to encounter my fair share of issues with it while I was regularly contributing here.

[Guest Dazed]

Out of curiousity, how many hits do you guys get for the articles that people write? I was wondering, because I assumed that if a lot of the people on the board don't read it, then who does?

 

Anyways, I'd write them

[Guest goodhelmet]

To Sass and gtd... thanks for the kind words.

 

Now, for this thread...

 

gtd...

occasionally i'll read some of al's stuff (which is really weird considering i have no interest in the topics), i used to read the shoot interviews and coey's stuff when they were semiregular items, and i'm still waiting for the next part of loss's revised history of the wwf (which is probably the most perceptive and wellwritten piece this site's ever posted).

 

My thoughts exactly. I used to read the WWE stuff but I have zero interest in the product so articles discussing it do not interest me at all.

 

it's really a shame that there isn't more interest than there is, cause we've got some very fine writers and a lot of potential, but motivation and free time are very sporadic. the stuff that mostly got people talking was the really thick, in-depth, dense stuff that takes a lot of time to put together, and the fire kind of burned out.

 

You hit it right on the head.

 

When the site first started, I used to have tape giveaways for the best article. For the 100+ article guys, I gave away a free comp. I thought shit liked that would improve morale and keep guys interested even if they were getting little feedback. I once tried to set up a contest where the winner would get an obscene amount of wrestling footage for an article that was huge in size, huge in depth and high in quality. Sadly, no one was up to the challenge... or had the time... or gave a shit about the prize .

 

i think a lot of that has to do with the lack of substantial feedback we get, but at the same time i think we'd GET more feedback if we just put stuff out there with more regularity & did more pimping.

 

Feedback and pimping. The two things that have cursed this site from the beginning.

 

Pimping the site was hit and miss. In the beginning, we had the advantage of having SK's old board to work with... instant readers. Then, Dames got kudos from TNA. Rob did the Trish (imposter?) interview. Teke was getting pimped and pimping (to WOL) the site and there was a build. Rob and Tom (or Dames? or all three? or two out of three?) wrote for Lords of Pain but... it is fucking Lords of Pain for chrissakes. Dames wrote for Sciaiaiaia but rarely pimped the other writers work. I had a real problem with that and let him know it. also, it was sad to see writers posting at other boards but not including links.

 

Feedback... I never could figure out a way to solve this issue. If anyone has any ideas, let me know. It is amazing how dedicated some guys still are. nik johns has the opportunity to go to a bigger site but hasn't, teke could have gone to 411 at its peak but didn't.

 

Sass..

I really just wanted to help remind others, as well as myself, why I even came to post on a wrestling message board in the first place. TSM had the people to do it but lacked the resources.

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Unfortunately, I had eyes bigger than my stomach and the whole revamp was poorly handled by me. I didn't check in with the right people at the right times and I never could devote enough time to staying online long enough to see everything go through right.

 

You are by no means to blame for the majority of this. It was a group failure.

One thing still amazes me. I was the one (along with Dames and Mike) who setup new writers for close to a year, but when you were trying to get Chris Coey started, no one bothered to tell you that I might know how to do it (Dames was moving) or knew someone who did?!?! Honestly, did you and Tom email any of the writers and ask them how they got setup or if they knew anyone who did? I never found out how this breakdown occurred and am curious to know. I was only a PM, IM or email away!

 

I delegated the technical side of setting things up for writers to the guy who busted his ass for this site for years and knew what to do (goodhelmet) but never returned the favor myself by taking some of the work off his shoulders and cutting him a break.

 

I never felt like you needed to take work off my shoulders or that you needed to cut me a break. Can you elaborate?

 

The lack of support on my end is still a disappointment to me.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself. If not for you, the site would have died much quicker and you attempted to do more things in a couple of months than me, Tom or Dames ever bothered to do in years.

 

Will's one of the coolest guys I've had the pleasure of conversing with online.

 

 

There were some good times this summer along with the bad. The front site revamp was definitely something I had hoped would work but I haven't lost any sleep over it. It’s still a major bummer for me though. It was a hell of a crazy ride while Dames gave us kids the keys to the liquor cabinet but I am glad that we didn't end up burning the board down in the process.

 

The other day, I half-jokingly told Dames he should blow up the site. he could never do that, and I knew that, but it may the best solution. Start fresh and see what comes of it. The biggest issue would be the archives since there is nobody who updates them. Then again, I have been more than willing to show guys how to archive articles and nobody seemed to give a shit so that may be a non-issue.

 

Failed mascot...

Wow Sass...we haven't spoken in months and shit but to take the bullet like that was an admirable thing. It wasn't all your fault though ya know. All the fighting that was going on between everybody when I decided to just say fuck it and leave didn't help you or others with this. It was like you had to do daycare while trying to fix things up.

 

What was your name as a writer, if you don't mind me asking? Agreed that it wasn't all of Sass's fault, btw.

 

You once told me "The road to hell was paved with good intentions"...

 

It's true, Sass wasn't the first one to say that. It was Alice Cooper...

 

http://www.dongrays.com/alice-cooper/song/imtl

 

gtd...

chris's departure wasn't that big of a blow, as his stuff wasn't a TSM exclusive anyway, and he didn't contribute often enough to make it a really big feature.

 

Agreed but it could have been big. It is also possible that he would have pumped out more content if he had stayed on.

 

i think loss's contribution would've done much more and been the little south american kid of the captain planet team, so to speak. i don't know what made him leave it incomplete, but it probably had to do with a lack of free time, as my burnout did. don't think it's his fault or anything, since he's such a stand-up guy who goes out of his way to not let people down, but god damn if that article didn't get people talking.

 

Loss rules. Having said that, I know the 2nd part of 2001 is almost done. I don't know if Teke ever sent the missing matches that he needed but that may explain why he never completed it. With confidence, I can say I contributed to the article by supplying him with a large portion of those matches

 

will's good people. i think he'd be a better choice for newbie submissions. tom seems constantly pressed for time, and will kept telling me about how easy his job is, and it's not like he wouldn't be qualified. i feel like the ball got dropped on the edwin situation. the site hasn't had a music critic in forever, and all the music folder regulars like him, so that would be another easy 20+ readers easy.

 

Thanks for your confidence but proofreading articles is a shitty job. One of the reasons I stepped away from the site the first time was because i was fed up with reading the submissions. Sometimes, if I saw potential, I would work with a guy (sometimes for hours on end) but the process sucks. Some guys worked out great. After reading a couple of Teke's posts reviewing shoot interviews, I convinced him to make it a regular feature and I think he has been the most valuable resource on the net in the last three years.

 

Then you have the bad ones. Try sifting through some of the entries that were submitted and think twice before you volunteer someone for this position. When you have a guy who calls you a grammar Nazi because he doesn't understand basic sentence structure (Looks in Rant's direction), a plagiarist (Paul Votsis), and the masses who have never heard of spell-check, it isn't that fun.

 

And the SK clones... that was the most frustrating part. Tack a star rating at the end of some boring PBP and that was 75% of the applicants. Fuck that.

 

Loss...

Thank you. That really does mean a lot.

 

I still have every intention of doing this, but I tend to get very ambitious when I set my sights on something, and because I aim to do everything huge, if I don't think I can meet my own personal standards, I won't do it at all.

 

I need to just get started on it. My plan, believe it or not, is to go back as far as tape availability can take me and cover things in yearly increments, probably about four hours of footage at a time. I think I made the first piece a little too long, and I do want whatever I write to be easily read in one sitting. My reason for wanting to go in chronological order is so I can watch the footage in the order it's intended to be watched. If a match looks good on paper, or interesting, or makes me curious, I'll review it. I wanted to start with 2001 WWF so I could go back to it after watching all the other footage and compare my original thoughts to my new ones. It's a daunting task, but I think I could have fun with it, as long as I didn't try to do too much at once.

 

This thread has me motivated to kick it in gear again. The oldest match I know of that exists on tape is Joe Stetcher v Earl Caddock from 01/30/20. It's amazing that such footage even exists, but that seems like a great starting point. Volumes have been written on the stylistic changes in popular music over the course of a long period of time, and it was my goal to do the same for wrestling.

 

Doing so would mean setting aside at least an hour a day to watch tapes and also purchasing as much footage as I can as often as I can. I can take notes while I watch and write everything the next day at work. I just need to make it a priority.

 

I really enjoyed your work as well, and your feedback was so helpful and constructive that I think it will make the rest of the work I do all the better. I wish I could have offered as much help to you, but you seemed to have a better command of your style than I did.

 

This is why I love this man... in a manly heterosexual kind of way.

 

Or a he took advantage of me when I was passed out type love.

 

 

Dr. Tom...

My share of the blame in this is at least as large as Sass', if not higher, since I was the one everyone looked to sign off on things and put it together. So I'll take my lumps from that and move on.

 

Ok, you have accepted blame. Sass has accepted blame. We all have a little bit of blame. Ultimately, this falls on Dames' shoulders. Like the rest of us, real life grabbed him by the balls and he fell off the face of the planet. I want to hear Dames' take on the sad state of affairs on the front site.

 

Incidentally, I'd still like to overhaul the front page completely and get away from Article Manager, even if it means I (or just a few people) have to do all the article posting. It'd be great to find a few folks to do this for us (since trying to dump it all on Josh is both unfair and unrealistic, though I'd certainly like him to be involved), but it would obviously be pro-bono work.

 

Blow up the main page and start over. Maybe that is wishful thinking but it may be easier to start with new legs than trying to make a cripple walk.

 

Like others, I tend to get excited about projects I'm involved with, and I end up biting off more than I can chew. Maybe this time, with realistic and tempered expectations, we can get the main site looking more presentable, and then we can draw in more readers, not just from the forums, but from the 'net as a whole.

 

This goes back to pimping and feedback. Massive pimping. A staff that feels appreciated. Any ideas on the feedback?

 

Your Paragon of Virtue...

Out of curiousity, how many hits do you guys get for the articles that people write?

 

It varied. Teke would get thousands. Dames would get thousands. Pinned articles would do better than articles that fell off the main page after a couple of days. Some would only get a few hundred.

 

I was wondering, because I assumed that if a lot of the people on the board don't read it, then who does?

 

Sometimes, the people who read are just a google search away from discovering the site. Speaking of the board, I don't know if there is a correlation between reader drop-off and the disabling of open-viewing of the forum.

 

 

Dr. Tom...

With wrestling in decline and interest waning, putting actual show reviews on the main page is as far as I want to go. Heck, I'd love to ditch the rasslin' altogether and just be a pop culture site, but our wrestling writers are good and dedicated, and I'm not going to do that to them.

 

I disagree with ditching wrestling altogether. Wrestling has always been the bread and butter of the site. I always maintained that we should have ditched the pop culture stuff and focused on wrestling. Sadly, many of the best writers were the pop culture guys. Maybe two sites dedicated to two different things would be the best route.

 

 

So posting "shows" where people are pretending to be wrestlers -- which means they're pretending to be people who pretend to beat each other up -- is not something I want us to get into on the mainpage. I think we posted one or two before, and the reaction was not positive.

 

Agreed. That is a bad idea.

 

 

Loss...

GTD, I think that's a great idea, actually. You know, covering Flair may be a really good starting point. I already have tons of his matches on tape, and I'd only need to fill a few small holes, mainly from the 1970s and his more modern work.

 

Well, get started already!!!

[teke184 0]

Glad to see that my tape-pimp has emerged from his multi-child hiatus!

 

When it comes to my current lack of activity, it's due to a few things:

 

1. Burnout

 

I'd been doing shoots for about 2 straight years, starting when I just graduated college and continuing through my ups and downs at work. You'll probably see that my crankiest ones were weeks where I pissed and moaned about my job (especially early 2003).

 

2. Disgust

 

The Feinslime situation in early 2004 helped turn me off to shoots for a while. That was before ROH and RF Video officially split, meaning that the biggest supplier of shoots was owned by an accused pedophile.

 

3. Real life situations

 

Short version- Job stress, family stress, and home stress (cramped apartment then moving into a house) all took their toll on me.

 

4. WWE

 

The WWE's "Zero to suck in five PPVs" routine in 2004 helped finish me off. Backlash was about the only thing done right in the few months following Wrestlemania and the fact that Vince was going to do what he wanted despite what the fans felt took its toll. That goddamn Bradshaw title reign was probably the last straw...

 

 

 

As far as the future of my work, I have some new shoots that I've gotten from Ring Of Honor but I need to work time into my schedule to review them and get into the swing of things again before I attempt a comeback.

 

 

To explain more fully, my shoot review technique is a combination of speed-typing, rewind-and-transcribe quoting, and researching threads to expand upon some of the more cryptic comments and questions within the shoot.

 

I don't remember how many shoots it took for me to do this on-the-fly (as opposed to reviewing shoots I'd seen previously), but it took quite a few of them. Until I can get back into that mode, there's no point in me publishing one because I couldn't say when the next one will get finished.

[IllustriousOne 0]

When I was asked to do the front end for the new site, and asked to keep the old articles in tact, I knew it was practically impossible with the way Article manager was set up.

 

I'd have to go back through and read every single article, put it in a "X writer" folder, and then offload them onto my computer. Following that, it looked like I would have to resubmit every article otherwise, with the new front site. That just wasn't going to happen.

 

My suggestion has always been to blow away the old articles, and start fresh. Like it's been said, it's much easier to start with new legs than to make a cripple walk.

 

I'm open to re-doing the front site, but archiving and saving all of the old articles is practically impossible. Also, if something like this IS going to go down, I have to wait to start on it until the summer, since I'm back in school now.

 

-Josh

[MrRant 0]

You could just create an archive section of the site for say... Pre-2005 articles. Shouldn't take much work.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Whatever. Smash it.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

To Will, its the Poster Formerly Known as FrigidSoul. I'm back from my internet hiatus and in better spirits.

 

Whatever. Smash it.

That's your answer to everything.

[Art Sandusky 0]

"Oh Man, I'm On Drugs Right Now" would make a fabulous regular column title.

[godthedog 0]

i think just "I'm on Drugs Right Now" would be better.

 

And the subtitle of every single article would have to say "I'm on drugs right now."

[Sass 0]

Will, all those guys are passionate about wrestling. I figured that the passion those guys have for their work could have rubbed off on folks and create a new interest in wrestling. Myself included. I wouldn't have held my breath though.

 

You dropped off the TSM radar, as well as mine, when I was trying to get Chris Coey set-up writing. I had forgotten how you even knew the system set-up. I forget how we even hooked back up again to get Chris and the others set-up. I asked Chris to write for TSM back in February but you and I didn't meet up until like April or so (I think) to discuss stuff.

 

I should have seeked your services out sooner than I did.

 

In regards to taking some work off your shoulders, I hated asking you to help set-up *every* new writer. Being a new dad myself, I know what the prgenancy DAYZ~! can be like and you were also teaching too. I didn't want you to get bogged down with TSM stuff. You were the set-up guy and I didn't want burnout to set in with you. It's a thankless job and nothing was forcing you to stick around.

 

Simply put, I just wanted to be able to help you out with the process.

 

Your presence was, and always has been, greatly appreciated around here. I've always valued our conversations. You've always managed to hold my interest with what you have to say. Being a fellow history buff is also pretty cool too. I'm sure we could talk about the Great Depression until the cows come home.

 

I just wanted to make sure you knew I had your back covered. You're a good friend Will.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Picture Baba saying the stuff in Sass' posts. Tell me you don't get all misty from it.

[Nighthawk 0]

You should change your name to Red Hot Thumbtack In The Thigh.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

why?

[Nighthawk 0]

Well why was it Eye in the first place?

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

It seemed like an interesting place to put a red hot thumbtack.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As for the site, if we really put some planning into it, I don't see why we couldn't put out a site of similar quality to any of the other wrestling/pop-culture sites out there, like 411mania. Seriously, looking through that site, some of their columnists are utter shite. We already have a good nucleus of talent on board here. I like to think of myself as a talented writer, and I'd stake my reputation on the rest of the crew here.

 

It's difficult to pinpoint exactly what the problem is with the site. While improving the forums, I think closed registrations hurt us in the long run. We have to ask ourselves, what is more important? Are we concerned with running a web site, or a forum? Tom's stated that he'd like to ditch the wrestling content. While wrestling may be passe at the moment, our wrestling writers constitute the majority of our assets. Without wrestling, the site loses its identity. There's honestly better pop-culture stuff out there. We need to take advantage of what we have.

 

While the lack of quality wrestling these days hurts, I believe there are ways we can work around it. Historical projects such as the ones Loss has banded about are excellent ideas. There particularly is a lack of good wrestling information pre-1990. Also, I think it might be a good idea to explore issues beyond the current product. What really draws fans, etc.? If we could get some good analysis that digs to the heart of professional wrestling, that could really benefit the site.

 

I think we could use some new writers to beef up the content of the page. Cover undercovered areas, such as NWA-TNA. Perhaps have someone write up a weekly wrap-up, so that those of use who don't watch as much can still keep up with current storylines and developments quickly.

 

Just my two cents.

[Myxamatosis 0]

If you need new writers for uncovered promotions or programming, let me know.

 

PM me and I'll give you some experience specifics.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You need to find a better niche than "pop culture and wrestling".

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

To answer the original question, I don't go to the main site at all; my bookmark takes me directly here. I think I may have read two columns in the three years I've been here.

 

In fact, considering my rapidly declining interest in wrestling, and the fact that, no offense, I generally get better "pop culture" conversation (from people that are actually in my age group) elsewhere, pretty much the only reason I come to this site anymore is for the SWF, and the occasional forays into Sports and General Wrestling to reminisce about old school. Don't imagine I'd have much reason to stick around if you removed wrestling entirely, certainly not if you decided to remove the e-feds.

 

Of course, I was never really a "major" contributor around here to begin with, so it's entirely possible that you don't even care...

[Dr. Tom 0]

Let's clarify.

 

I'm not going to get rid of the wrestling content. Our writers are too good and too dedicated for that, and I'm not going to shit on them and their contributions by undercutting them. From a viability perspective, wrestling is a niche market that is currently in a decline several years long. While wrestling content will certainly attract wrestling fans to the site and forums, something else will eventually need to be there to get them to stay. Since "pop culture" (using that term to encompass movies, music, art, literature, and sports) will always be around and always have a fairly steady and stable audience, I think that's ultimately more important, but TSM has always been about both, so it need to continue to be about both.

 

I'm definitely in favor of blowing up the mainpage, though. Even if it means we have to archive all the articles here in the forum archives; that can be setup so each writer can do their own content.

[genius33 0]

i miss jay spree's dvd columns...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The thing is, so many other sites do "Pop Culture". What would make this site unique?

[Myxamatosis 0]

What distinguishes People from Time? Or Life from Rolling Stone?

 

It's the quality of the writing. If a site has stylistic and original writers, readers flock towards it.

 

Unique perspectives and organization of an article (for skimmers) also goes a long way.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

People is mainly about celebrities. Time is more about geopolitics and social issues. Rolling Stone is about music. Life is about stuff at home. Besides, the magazine rack and the internet are two different things. You walk by a newstand and you can see the coverpages - you don't even have to be "looking" for it to see it-, on the internet you have to take a more active role in searching. If someone wants DVD reviews, they will type in "dvd reviews" into a search engine. They won't find TSM, even though there are DVD reviews on TSM. Why? People there are countless sites whose primary focus is DVD reviews. And they have thousands of DVD reviews. I doubt TSM has 50. Offering "Unique Perspectives" isn't, well, unique. If everyone is unique, then no one is unique. First you have to know what you are, what you have to offer, and who you want to target. Then you have to know what your target audience wants. You can't get by on "The Best ______ " because in order to establish that you need to put the time into establishing a reputation. Good luck on that, because people on-line get into habits. If they have a DVD site for reviews, they're going to stick with that site. You're living in a dream if you think just putting out quality articles is going to get you an audience on the internet and make you distinct. A Unique Selling Proposition is a fundamental marketing concept, this site right now doesn't have one.

[Sass 0]

You're overthinking this RRR. Other than that, you're awesome man.