The NFL Offseason/Pre-Draft Thread

[Agent_Bond34 0]

And that "QB that was run out of Cleveland" is a former Pro Bowler whose departure, along with Mariucci's and T.O's, took San Francisco from perennial playoff teams to 1-15 (or was it 2-14? I forget. Still pretty pathetic.)

 

It was 2-14, but yeah, pathetic, indeed.

 

I think it took Mariucci roughly the same amount of time to rebuild the Niners from when they crashed and burned, to get them to a 10-6/11-5 type of team. Probably could've continued getting better if he, Garcia, and Owens hadn't left.

 

IMO, it would have been a sinking ship even if they had stayed.

 

Garcia has been declining for several years now.

 

I think 2000 will likely go down as his best year. (Or at least in terms of passing yards)

[Guest Vitamin X]

The loss of Reggie White and Mark Chmura after the 1998 season (as well as Mike Holmgren lest we forget), combined with Levens' holdout the season before and then the following offseason seeing Freeman holdout after Favre had to pretty much take the `98 season on his shoulders with no running game, saw the Packers miss the playoffs for the first time in over a decade under Ray Rhodes, just barely, by going 8-8, and then 9-7 the next two years under Mike Sherman, missing the playoffs again both times.

 

Favre has kept them up there, but it's not just the potential losses of Jackson, Walker, and Franks that has me worried; it's the fact that everyone else in the NFC North seems to be doing much better while Green Bay is stuck with a shitload of problems. The Bears had a great defense, and even beat Green Bay last year in Lambeau.. whose to say that Grossman, who was playing great until he was injured last year, won't have an even better year this year with an improved offense? Obviously we all know how much better the Vikes have improved. And the Lions are grossly underrated... They're this year what everyone was expecting Seattle to do, which means Detroit should pretty much nab at LEAST 9-10 wins.

 

Mike Sherman is entering the last year of his contract, and is on pretty thin ice with the organization, so if he responds and the Pack have a great year, then that would be awesome, and they'd probably re-sign him to a long-term deal. This could be Favre's last year as well, though realistically I see him doing at least another 2-3 before finally calling it quits.

 

Don't be so pessimistic about the Bears, trust me. Lovie Smith has them really going in the right direction...

Smith needs no reminders about last season

 

By ANDREW SELIGMAN, AP Sports Writer

July 23, 2005

BOURBONNAIS, Ill. (AP) -- Nobody needed to remind Lovie Smith that his first season as the Chicago Bears' coach was a rough one.

 

The Bears lost quarterback Rex Grossman to a torn knee ligament in the third game. Linebacker Brian Urlacher missed seven games due to injuries. An offensive line depleted by injuries allowed a team-record 66 sacks, and the offense had more fumbles lost (21) than touchdowns (19).

 

All that added up to a 5-11 record.

 

On Saturday, players and coaches reported to training camp vowing to do better. The first practice is Sunday.

 

One notable absence was running back Cedric Benson, the fourth pick in the draft, who remains unsigned.

 

``When Cedric gets here, we'll start coaching him,'' Smith said. ``We'll be pleased when it happens.''

 

For now, Smith is not concerned about negotiations dragging on.

 

``Thomas Jones is our starting running back,'' Smith said. ``We're moving ahead. The guys that we have here are the ones we'll start coaching right away. Cedric Benson will eventually be here, but right now, that is not one of my concerns. I know we have a good football team; I can't wait to see it all come together.''

 

Smith reiterated his support for Grossman, who completed 47 of 84 passes for 607 yards before blowing out his right knee.

 

``Rex is definitely a leader,'' Smith said. ``I like him leading our team. Ask any of his teammates -- they'll all say the same thing about him. ... He's ready to go, and we can't wait to get him on the field.''

 

The Bears didn't have a capable replacement when Grossman went down. Jonathan Quinn and rookie Craig Krenzel struggled before the team signed Chad Hutchinson, who started the final five games. Hutchinson was more effective, but the Bears were 1-4 with him.

 

Chicago felt fortunate to draft Purdue's Kyle Orton in the fourth round but is that trio of quarterbacks good enough?

 

The Bears have a new offensive coordinator in former Illinois coach Ron Turner. They have a new defensive backs coach, as well as new coaches leading the offensive and defensive lines.

 

``I don't feel like I had a honeymoon at all,'' said Smith, referring to last season. ``We tried to win last year, and we didn't. When we played bad, people let us know. When we played well, they did. I think they'll do the same this year.''

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I hope so. And I did say the worst the Pack would do would be 7-9. That's similar to that Rhodes-coached year.

[snuffbox 0]

I think my head would explode if Green Bay had a losing season. I dont know how folks handled the 50's and 80's.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The 80's were better than the 70's.

 

Handling this past season as a Laker fan should prepare me adequately for how I'll feel as a Packer fan, except since I'm way more into football, it'll probably hurt even worse. When they were at 1-4 last year, I was pretty down, skeptical, and outright cynical. I don't expect anything better this year, juding from their first five games...

@ Detroit, vs. Cleveland, vs. Tampa Bay, @ Carolina, and vs. the Saints, they'll probably be either 2-3 or 3-2 heading into the bye week depending on how they handle the Saints at Lambeau. After that though, they've got hell for the next six games:

@ Minnesota, @ Cincinatti (Okay, maybe this one isn't THAT bad, but you never know..), vs. Pittsburgh, @ Atlanta, vs. Minnesota, and @ Philadelphia to cap things off. Yikes. Philly will be the point they'll reach their seventh-ninth loss.

 

I don't care though, I'm just glad football season's finally around the corner. Only six 1/2 weeks to go till kickoff! (Only two 1/2 till Green Bay's first preseason game)

[snuffbox 0]

2 1/2 weeks til preseason starts? Damn,

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

That's so awesome. God damn I love football and miss it terribly this time of year.

[Robert 0]

You know how we survived the 70's and 80's,with hope that the next gen of Packer fans wouldn't sit through what we sat through.

 

In the 70's, the only good year was '72 and we were knocked out right away by the Redskins (17-3) and then there's the famous John Hadl trade. Dan Devine (Packer's coach) put a great amount of draft picks and Hadl was sore-armed. We had a damn good running game in the 70's and a sturdy D. We were never ready for the impact that happened when Lombardi left and we were a pretty shell-shocked team.

 

The 1980's were a time when we would be super hot. Sometimes we'd win five games. We had Lynn Dickey at QB and James Lofton at WR. In 81 we went to the playoffs, but a lack of an offensive line and defense got us knocked out by Dallas in the second round. In 83 there was the famous high-scoring game against the Redskins. In 84 and 85 we went 8-8 under Forest Gregg, and didn't make the playoffs both times. We then went under young Randy Wright at QB, and proceeded to stink the place up. In 89, we had a second-year Sterling Sharpe, and Don Majkowski was just lighting it up. We then proceeded to suck for until 92.

[Guest Vitamin X]

It's nice to know we have Officer Goeman here as our Packers historian.

 

Curious as to checking out what he said, I looked up pro-football-reference.com for Green Bay's record during the 70's and 80's, and wow. That really says something about either how much things have changed with job security in regards to coaching, or just how generally forgiving Packer fans are/were, since Bart Starr and Forrest Gregg, both stars as players during the Lombardi era, had to be two of the worst fucking coaches I've seen tenured in Green Bay's history. Starr never got the team to anything better than an 8-8 record in the course of NINE seasons, going 52-61-3. Forrest Gregg was even worse, going 33-45-1. (what's with all the ties here?).

 

Nowadays, guys like Mariucci get let go despite being able to rebuild a franchise after the great-QB era in San Fran.

[Robert 0]

Well, under the Starr coach/GM era the following games ended in ties:

1978: vs Minnesota Viking (10-10)

1980: vs Tampa Bay Buccaneers (14-14)

1982: vs Baltimore Colts (20-20: Nine game season)

 

Here is the tied game that Forest Gregg had:

1987: vs Denver Broncos (17-17: Strike Game)

 

Under Starr, the ST squad was very bad. Returning, punting, and the worse part was: kicking. Out kickers would usually miss due to poor protection on FG and XP. At times we would have to go through 3-4 kickers under a season. This is the order of coaches and what was good/bad until Holmgren came or the "dark ages" as we call them:

 

Bengtson: Pass-happy offense, and a very poor defense (Guy took a brutal amount of critiscm for not living up to expectations)

 

Devine: A very great running game, and a tough defense. (Didn't have much of a passing game, thus the Hadl trade)

 

Starr: Pretty much a offense only coach. Didn't really care about defense or special teams (Horrible at being a general manager. Wasn't really good with player relations)

 

Gregg: Was good at special teams and offense. Sometimes he would improve the defense, others it was worse than our current D. (Was not good with being open for suggestions. Had assisstants who had a horrible temper)

 

Infante: Was a passy happy coach. (Was not good at running, special teams, and defense)

[the pinjockey 0]

A gift for you good boys and girls, the latest from Screamin A. Smith aka TO's Towel Boy from the Philadelphia Inquirer

 

Stephen A. Smith | Owens has put Birds in a bind

 

By Stephen A. Smith

 

Inquirer Columnist

 

 

Stalemate.

 

Almost everyone would like to label the situation differently, of course. They'd like to think that Terrell Owens is wallowing in misery. Perplexed over what to do next. Struck by images of the Eagles laughing over the reality that their star wide receiver is devoid of any sensible option other than showing up for training camp Aug. 1 - lest he lose some of the cash he is complaining about making.

 

Except that it doesn't appear as if Owens is in that kind of mood at all. In fact, he has seemed more agitated with each conversation, more steadfast with each antagonizing word oozing from the Eagles' brass. So much so that the Eagles may be forced into appeasing a player for a change - unless they plan on rebuilding. Or, even worse, spending a season selling us on this ridiculous notion that Todd Pinkston and Greg Lewis will be enough at wideout to ride coach Andy Reid's genius to a fifth consecutive conference championship game.

 

Go figure!

 

Trade Owens.

 

Waive Owens.

 

Owens and agent Drew Rosenhaus will try to force one of those moves.

 

It doesn't matter what Owens tells anyone from this day forward or what Rosenhaus continues to articulate. That they simply have no other recourse available to them may be the worst-kept secret in the NFL.

 

Owens will be going to training camp because he is no more interested in being fined a reported $9,400 a day than he is in surrendering $1.87 million of a signing bonus the Eagles gave him last year. The agenda is to make more money, not lose money.

 

When Owens says, "I'm not about to miss training camp, but I won't be happy," perhaps it's time for everyone to take a deep breath and absorb those words, then think about Reid, his players, and that locker room we've been fixated on for the last six years.

 

There has always been little turmoil, little controversy in that room. The reason would be Reid and his old-school tactics, buffered by Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie, who considers his coach more of a gold standard than his team.

 

It's always been goodbye to any Eagle who doesn't want to be in Philadelphia. Don't-let-the-door-slap-you-in-the-backside has been the mantra.

 

Time and again, the Eagles have been accused of being nothing but a bunch of choirboys marching to the heavy-handed beat of Reid's drum.

 

The players have been silent on most occasions, fearful of retribution from a coach with an iron fist; a team president in Joe Banner who is just as pragmatic; and an owner who essentially couldn't care less because the coach and the president achieve his bottom-line goals better than most would in this player-hating NFL business.

 

The problem is this: Owens doesn't bow to such strong-arm tactics. If the Eagles haven't learned this already, chances are they're about to.

 

The Eagles should have learned it when they tried to assign a team official to Owens, someone who made the mistake of attempting to tell him whom to talk to in the media. They should have learned it when Owens defied company policy on several occasions and had the temerity to question Donovan McNabb. Goodness knows, no one else thought about doing that before Owens came long.

 

The likelihood is that the Eagles will learn even more once Aug. 1 rolls around, once Owens feels he has an opportunity to respond in a manner too conspicuous for the Eagles to ignore or dismiss.

 

"He needs to come in and behave," a team official told The Inquirer on Thursday. "I know he's said before that he's incapable of giving less than 100 percent, and I really believe that to be true."

 

One issue has nothing to do with the other. That's why right or wrong doesn't matter any longer.

 

Owens can't be stupid enough to step onto the playing field and play at less than the level he's capable of. His pride, his ego, and his desire for future earnings would prohibit that.

 

But that doesn't mean that Owens will keep quiet if or when Pinkston is playing like garbage. It doesn't mean that he'll be silent if McNabb begins making mistakes, that he won't exacerbate the situation by letting the world know about them long before Reid & Co. run to his defense, eager to protect their $112.9 million investment.

 

Think about the things that Owens could do to disrupt the status quo, to throw a monkey wrench into an Eagles franchise that, when it comes to secrets, has more than the CIA.

 

Then ask yourself again: How much of an advantage do the Eagles really have?

 

Assuming, of course, that their goal is a Super Bowl title.

 

Bolded the really amusing parts.

 

That they simply have no other recourse available to them may be the worst-kept secret in the NFL.

 

Yes, they do have recourse in that they can sit him the fuck down for the year. And I would be shocked if they did not do this before cutting him or trading him (unless it was a good offer which it won't be at this point)

 

The problem is this: Owens doesn't bow to such strong-arm tactics. If the Eagles haven't learned this already, chances are they're about to.

 

And TO doesn't bow down to such strong arm attempts such as....erm, uh.....saying no new contract after one year. Damn that Eagles front office for trying to break such a noble spirit such as TO.

 

Think about the things that Owens could do to disrupt the status quo, to throw a monkey wrench into an Eagles franchise that, when it comes to secrets, has more than the CIA.

 

And I am sure a pre-meditated plan to be a distraction won't result in any "conduct detrimental to the team" fines. Besides, if he is a fuckwad they can still take the 1.8 million from his signing bonus for missing the mandatory mini-camp right after the draft. They haven't exercised that option yet, but if he wants to be a dick they can be a dick right back.

[snuffbox 0]

I want to meet a Packer fan from since the '50s. That guy would have some serious fucking horror stories.

 

Wasn't Nixon at the first game of Lambeau Field?

[Guest stoor]

here's the latest twist to the Javon Walker situation:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/jul05/344214.asp

 

Walker decides to report to training camp

'Tell everybody I'm coming in,' Packers wide receiver says at airport

By TOM SILVERSTEIN

[email protected]

Posted: July 27, 2005

Green Bay - Green Bay Packers wide receiver Javon Walker has decided to report to training camp.

 

"Tell everybody I'm coming in," Walker told a Journal Sentinel reporter as he arrived at the Green Bay airport shortly after 5 this evening.

 

Veterans were due to report to training camp by 7 tonight, with the first practice tomorrow.

 

Walker, represented by his agent Drew Rosenhaus, skipped all of the team's off-season functions, including a mandatory minicamp, in an attempt to force the Packers into renegotiating his contract.

 

Last week, Rosenhaus had said there was little hope Walker would report to training camp on time.

 

"We were very disappointed with the team's decision and when they memorialized that with a letter, it basically limited our options to this point to either being traded or deciding what our other options are," Rosenhaus said last Wednesday. "For right now we don't intend to report to training camp."

 

It was unknown tonight whether any progress had been made in renegotiating Walker's contract. Neither Rosenhaus nor Packers general manager Ted Thompson could be reached immediately for comment, and Walker would not elaborate on his contract status.

 

Walker, who has two years remaining on the five-year deal he signed as a rookie in 2001, is scheduled to make a base salary of $515,000 this season. Last year he made the Pro Bowl for the first time, leading the Packers with 89 receptions for 1,328 yards and 12 touchdowns.

 

Walker hired Rosenhaus to represent him after last season in an attempt to get his contract renegotiated. Rosenhaus has received considerable national attention in recent weeks because two of his high-profile clients, Walker and Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens, both want new contracts even though their old ones have not expired.

 

He also represents Packers nose tackle Grady Jackson, who signed with Rosenhaus several weeks ago in an attempt to renegotiate the final year of his two-year, $2.31 million contract.

 

Rosenhaus first gained notoriety among Packers fans last off-season when he successfully forced the Packers' hand on trading cornerback Mike McKenzie.

 

Walker had received considerable pressure during the off-season from quarterback Brett Favre to give up his holdout and report to training camp for the good of his team.

[Robert 0]

The thing about the Packer's was that we didn't have good coaches. We couldn't contain guys like Gale Sayers who would just run us over. We couldn't really play D because we didn't have a heart on the team. Yes, Nixon was there when it was called "City Stadium" and about half the size of Lambeau today.

 

Nice to here about Walker, I know that the moment that TO gave in, Walker would cave in.

 

EDIT: Watching who's No. 1 on ESPN Classic, and realized that Jason Whitlock and Bill Plaschke are fucking morons.

[therealworldschampion 0]

After reading that article, Screamin A comes off as quite a hypocrite whenever he goes off on Howard Eskin for being Andy Reid's Towel Boy...

[the pinjockey 0]

I am waiting to see how long it is until Rosenhaus feels a real backlash from his clients. It has gone from hiring him with whispers of a new deal in their heads to becoming a cause which the NFL owners are likely to stand hard against. There is going to be a point at which these players realize that if Rosenhaus is their agent the front offices are not going deal with them.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Not only that, but it seems like we might be seeing that it is indeed pointless to holdout before even entering the final year of their contract.

 

Leigh Steinberg was a way better superagent, I tells ya.

[MrRant 0]

Alexander will be in camp - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/spor...06_hawks27.html

[jimmy no nose 0]

It looks like Hines Ward won't be in camp on time. The Steelers offered him something close to a $9 million bonus and he wants Marvin Harrison type money. I don't think Ward could get $9 million from other teams in the league, so it may be a mistake on his part. He's a lot more important to the Steelers than he would be any other team, but he just doesn't put up the elite numbers he needs to for that kind of money.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

It looks like Hines Ward won't be in camp on time.  The Steelers offered him something close to a $9 million bonus and he wants Marvin Harrison type money.  I don't think Ward could get $9 million from other teams in the league, so it may be a mistake on his part.  He's a lot more important to the Steelers than he would be any other team, but he just doesn't put up the elite numbers he needs to for that kind of money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Comparing the three year averages for Ward and Harrison says he deserves plenty:

 

Harrison:

108 catches, 1369 yards, 12.7 YPC, 12 TDs

 

Ward

96 catches, 1165 yards, 12.1 YPC, 9 TDs

 

Looks pretty damn similar to me. I don't get why he turned down that contract though. Harrison is a better WR, but not by much, Ward getting paid just under what Harrison makes seems pretty fair to me.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

It looks like Hines Ward won't be in camp on time.  The Steelers offered him something close to a $9 million bonus and he wants Marvin Harrison type money.  I don't think Ward could get $9 million from other teams in the league, so it may be a mistake on his part.  He's a lot more important to the Steelers than he would be any other team, but he just doesn't put up the elite numbers he needs to for that kind of money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Comparing the three year averages for Ward and Harrison says he deserves plenty:

 

Harrison:

108 catches, 1369 yards, 12.7 YPC, 12 TDs

 

Ward

96 catches, 1165 yards, 12.1 YPC, 9 TDs

 

Looks pretty damn similar to me. I don't get why he turned down that contract though. Harrison is a better WR, but not by much, Ward getting paid just under what Harrison makes seems pretty fair to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah if Ward had 108 catches like Marvin, he'd have 1310 yards.

[KingPK 0]

Hey, anyone know of a good inside linebacker? The Pats lost another one today as Ted Johnson is forced to announce his retirement because he couldn't get medical clearance to play this season (apparently he's had one too many concussions over his career).

 

Time for Scott and Bill to work their personnel magic again.

[nl5xsk1 0]

KingPK, between Chad Brown and Monty Beisel the Pats did a good job of picking up two LBs that could probably start for them this year. Are they as good as Bruschi & Johnson? No, not likely. But are they as good as most teams have at LB, especially with Colvin as a third LB with them? Yeah, I think so.

 

The big thing the Pats have to do is get Seymour in camp and happy again. His hole would be tougher to fill than either Johnson or Bruschi.

[jimmy no nose 0]

It looks like Hines Ward won't be in camp on time.  The Steelers offered him something close to a $9 million bonus and he wants Marvin Harrison type money.  I don't think Ward could get $9 million from other teams in the league, so it may be a mistake on his part.  He's a lot more important to the Steelers than he would be any other team, but he just doesn't put up the elite numbers he needs to for that kind of money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Comparing the three year averages for Ward and Harrison says he deserves plenty:

 

Harrison:

108 catches, 1369 yards, 12.7 YPC, 12 TDs

 

Ward

96 catches, 1165 yards, 12.1 YPC, 9 TDs

 

Looks pretty damn similar to me. I don't get why he turned down that contract though. Harrison is a better WR, but not by much, Ward getting paid just under what Harrison makes seems pretty fair to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those numbers make them look pretty close, but if you go four seasons Harrison's numbers look a lot better. Hines really had 2 seasons where he could be considered an elite receiver in 2002 and 2003. In 2001 and 2004 he had almost exactly 1000 yards and only 4 TDs.

 

Marvin Harrison 108 catches 1408 yards 13.0 YPC 13 TD

Hines Ward 95 catches 1125 yards 11.8 YPC 8 TD

 

Compare those Hines numbers to

Joe Horn 86 catches 1237 yards 14.4 YPC 9 TD

 

Joe Horn got a $7 million bonus this year.

[Gert T 0]

Vitamin X, playing in Cincinnati won't be easy for any team this year. And if your D is your question mark, you better be ready to score about 40 points if you want to win.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Rudi Johnson is way overrated, although I think Palmer will take another step towards being a star in this league this year. I see a lot of potential in him, but what does Cincy have on offense that'll scare anyone besides Chad Johnson?

 

Also, Javon Walker has shown up to training camp, as did Grady Jackson and Cletidus Hunt, although Bubba Franks didn't. Franks deserves a new contract more than any of them, in my opinion. But, umm..

Had Walker held out, he would have been subject to $6,000 daily fines and the Packers would have had the right to go after half of the $1.3 million option bonus he received in 2003.

Heh. Sounds familiar.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Rudi Johnson is way overrated, although I think Palmer will take another step towards being a star in this league this year.

 

He has a tough time with stepping.

 

[the pinjockey 0]

Eagles DE Jerome McDougle was shot in the stomach and is in critical, but stable condition.

 

July 29, 2005

CBS SportsLine.com staff

 

 

 

 

Philadelphia Eagles defensive end Jerome McDougle is out of surgery and speaking with police after being shot in an apparent robbery attempt Thursday night.

 

According to a Miami-Dade police report, McDougle was approached by three masked gunmen while in or near his car. The gunmen allegedly demanded property and gunshots were exchanged, according to the report. McDougle was shot in the abdomen at least once and was airlifted JMH Ryder Trauma Center where he underwent surgery.

 

McDougle was the Eagles' first-round draft choice in 2003, moving up 15 spots to select the lineman from the University of Miami. McDougle has missed 13 regular season games due to injuries in two seasons with the Eagles.

 

McDougle's brother, Stockar, was drafted in the first round in 2000 and is an offensive lineman with the Miami Dolphins."

[Guest Vitamin X]

Why do NFL players ALWAYS seem to get in trouble with the law in Miami? I mean, ALWAYS.

 

And I've never seen a single one of them around!

[Vern Gagne 0]

McDougle's a Miami guy so it's not suprising he's down there.

 

Eugene Robinson was in Miami because of the Super Bowl.

 

I think one of the Blades brothers got in trouble in the area. Again they're both Miami guys.