When did WCW hit The Point Of No Return ?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Wrestling Observer Live were talking about the Death Of WCW book, and this question was asked, and I think it would make for a good topic on here.

 

At which point did you think WCW had gone past the point of no return, and that it was hopeless ?

 

Another question asked was when you realised Vince Russo didn't have a clue about wrestling ? They weren't talking about his creativity, but his actual understanding of wrestling.

 

For me, I felt WCW had gone past TPONR when Russo reformed the NWO for the 174,454th time. At that point, it was clear that Russo was both clueless about wrestling, though the virtually useless 32-man World Title Tournament made that clear two months beforehand, and was obsessed with reliving the WWF in WCW, which was a doomed concept.

 

As for Russo having no clue about wrestling, the aforementioned World Title tournament didn't help, but also the pointless interference in the Chris Benoit v Bret Hart match at Mayhem made it clear he didn't get it at all. And what made it clear he didn't know, understand or care about the WCW audience was on the Nitro relaunch in April 2000, when he said his aim was to beat Vince McMahon at his own game. First, you cannot beat Vince at Vince's own game. Second, if people want to watch Sports Entertainment, they'll watch the WWF. And thirdly, WCW fans don't want that anyway. They want a product totally different to the WWF product, but Russo didn't care. And if the guy in charge doesn't care what the fans want to see, and just puts out what he wants to see instead, it's hopeless.

 

What about the rest of you ? When did you think it was all over for WCW ?

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

When Goldberg went on the DL in early '00. He was the only draw they had left, and without him, suffered their worst period of buisiness ever. When he returned, WCW was well past the point of no return...

[Guest bigm350]

Fingerpoke of Doom. Its funny how HTQ said that Russo didn't care what the fans wanted, only what he wanted to see. Reminds me of how the WWE operates today.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

The fingerpoke planted the seed and the episode were their was no wrestling and just all skits for like the first hour or so was what basically caused me to stop watching until the last nitro.

[Jericholic82 0]

Actually I dont point to any one thing. There were WCW fans and WWF Fans (and of course ECW fans) then there were wrestling Fans who watched it all like myself.

 

 

I believe that the WWF getting so hot and popular in 98 killed WCW. casual fans started watching more WWF cuz it was the "in thing" at the time. and if you watched mostly WWF you were trained to think that WCW sucked and was minor league. And due to the ratings collapse, Bischoff and others panicked and made bad business decisions, and were not helped by guys like Nash and Hogan having the final say in things.

 

 

But as I said the WWF trained its fans to hate WCW and you wonder why the Invasion flopped before it started (nothwithstanding the constant jobbing and the parade of midcarders)

 

 

WCW was the cool thing in 97, but even its best year didnt match what the WWF became by 1999. (wcw never hit 8s and 9s in the ratings did they?) more non fans tuned in to the WWF in 98/99

 

 

 

Basically, IMO mind you, once the WWF got big, WCW was on life support and it finally died in 01

[Guest Loss]

I hung on far longer than I should have, and kept hoping for a turnaround far longer than I should have. I officially realized it wasn't going to happen when David Arquette got the World title, and I gave up on the product for good when Nash buried Lance Storm and they completely botched the Goldberg/Sting angle with the fan vote.

[Precious Roy 0]

When The Radicalz walked. That's the point where I completely lost faith in a turnaround, and while I didn't think they'd go out of business, to me WCW lost all relevance at that point.

 

Russo/Bischoff returning, stripping all the titles, and creating the New Blood stable was the equivalent of poking the corpse with stick.

[Jericholic82 0]

I hung on far longer than I should have, and kept hoping for a turnaround far longer than I should have. I officially realized it wasn't going to happen when David Arquette got the World title, and I gave up on the product for good when Nash buried Lance Storm and they completely botched the Goldberg/Sting angle with the fan vote.

Sadly I hung around to the very end. They had some glimmers of hope, like the Natural Born Thrillers, the cruiserweights, the CW tag titles.

 

I just couldnt bring myself to stop watching

[pgi86 0]

I`d go earlier than that.I`d say the nWo reunion in early 99.As soon as Hogan pinned Nash it all went downhill for me.The nWo was boring,Goldberg`s momentum was wasted,nobody was elevated,it got really repetitive.

[Guest Loss]

Sadly I hung around to the very end. They had some glimmers of hope, like the Natural Born Thrillers, the cruiserweights, the CW tag titles.

 

I just couldnt bring myself to stop watching

Oh, I watched until the end too, and from about Fall Brawl on, they improved and started putting together a pretty good product. But it was too little, too late at that point.

[Jericholic82 0]

I`d go earlier than that.I`d say the nWo reunion in early 99.As soon as Hogan pinned Nash it all went downhill for me.The nWo was boring,Goldberg`s momentum was wasted,nobody was elevated,it got really repetitive.

Youre not kidding Look at the title history. After Goldberg won it in 98 to finally put a fresh new face on top, He lost it to Nash, who lost it to Hogan (FPOD) who lost it to Flair who lost it to DDP who lost it to Sting who lost it to DDP who lost it to Nash who lost it to Randy Savage who lost it to Hogan who lost it to Sting. then it was vacant and bret and sid wound up winning it aftewards.

 

My point is the same old guys were being pushed to the top fo the card that certainly hurt their chances (WWE better take heed)

[Jericholic82 0]

Actually Goldberg winning the title so soon and on free tv hurt them alot

 

If they had waited and not worried about winning the ratings one week, they could have held it off till Starrcade and it would have meant a lot more.

[Gary Floyd 0]

I actually would say it started the second Nash became champion, because after that happened, I knew that the company's future wasn't looking too bright.

[Guest Trivia247]

When Bischoff authorized on nitro a Contest where the Company would Give away 1,000,000 Dollars to any TV VIEWER!

 

that I think was when the WCW slipped into the Coma...

 

consquently a week later Bischy was gone and Russo was in

[Guest Hass of Pain]

When I turned on Nitro and saw Hogan in the red and yellow outdoors looking 70 years old and pointing at the Heavens saying "It's THE WALL Brottttthhhhher" as the camera panned to The Wall standing on top of some swanky hotel, I pretty much knew it was over.

 

WCW hit the point of no return pretty much from the start of their popularity, and giving away Goldgerg/Hogan on free television a year before the fued should have climaxed knocked them down a few levels. Severely overexposing their product by expanding Nitro to three hours and adding Thunder crippled their staying power. Having 100 guys under contract, and running house shows headlined by Villano IV against Scotty Riggs destroyed their bottom line. WCW got too big to sustain itself and imploded, that's pretty much all there was too it.

 

I'd say for me personally, when the Bischoff/Russo thing tried to start the company over from square one and it failed, the writing was on the wall.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I've spent more time than probably only a few others researching/watching/loving/hating WCW.

 

I must say, the "Point of No Return" for WCW occurred in 1999.

 

WWE became ultra-hot, with fresh talent, new angles, and huge ratings numbers.

 

WCW kept having Nitros where "This'll be the one...", meaning this would have some super hot angle that would recapture the fans who were tired of seeing the athletic wrestlers lumped into meaningless undercard title matches or jobbed.

 

It didn't happen.

 

By the time guys like Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Rey, Eddie, Bret Hart, etc. were all given something meaningful to do, it was late 1999.

 

The value of the company was already so far deteriorated in the eyes of the fans that they just didn't care.

 

Benoit Vs. Hart Iron Man Match could have been advertised for Nitro, with a 2 out of 3 Falls match between Dean Malenko and Eddie Guerrero on the undercard for Nitro. And the show would've still drawn only a few decimal points higher. No one cared.

 

2000 came and the wheels began falling off.

[King Cucaracha 0]

For me personally, it was New Blood Rising. I saw little glimmers of hope still (what can I say, I'm an optimist). But the way they completely botched the Lance Storm/Mike Awesome match made me give up all hope. It wasn't a major factor in the company's downfall, but it was the point that I personally though 'you know what, Storm is now buried, and he was one of the last big hopes'. There were times before like early 2000. NBR was the last one though.

 

As for the Point Of No Return for the company itself, I still believe there would have always been a way back had Vince not bought the company. At the time, RVD was the hottest free agent going. He was imminent and I still think that with RVD, they may have had a base to pull back. Plus, there were obviously good ideas floating around.

[Vern Gagne 0]

When Nitro had old timers like Tito Santana involved in a major storyline. I thought this isn't something a company in trouble should be doing. Than the next week Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, and Saturn jumped ship.

[Zack Malibu 0]

I too clung on to the very end, hoping for the best. To me, the point where I slapped my head wasn't the Fingerpoke, or the Arquette deal. It was the Goldberg heel turn. God willing they tried to make it work by having him kill Jim Duggan, who was a sympathetic character, but everyone knew he didn't have a chance. Plus, people were not ready to boo Goldberg. The ensuing angle where Nash/Steiner/Golderg were "shooting" on each other both on commentary and IN THE RING (Goldberg not wanting to "do the job", etc.) just made it more of a disaster.

 

The Thrillers, the cruisers, even Flair's Magnificent Seven angle killing off all the faces and setting up for the big babyface return of Goldberg to hopefully rejuvenate the company were all going well, but we know how it all turned out.

[Just John 0]

The finger poke and subsequent Hogan/Flair ME angle. I still watched WCW some after that, but I really had no hope or expectations.

[razazteca 0]

Jeff Jarret as champion.

[MARTYEWR 0]

IIRC, I gave up and stopped watching around the time of the Nash/Savage sewage angle.

[Vern Gagne 0]

As horrible has WCW was in 2000, and it was their fault. The WWE was awesome that year, and WCW woes were only magnified by what the WWE was doing.

[syxx2001 0]

Eh, when Sting turned heel.

[Guest netslob]

the Sting/Hogan blow-off at Starrcade '97. Sting NEEDED to win that match clean, if just to justify the year-long build-up. then they blew it with the false fast count and Bret Hart's presence. that was, i believe any way, the first (of many) nail in the coffin. they ruined the best stroyline they had at that point.

[razazteca 0]

When were the Nitro Girls and DJ Ren employed, the whole No Limit Soldiers vs Rednecks angle, KISS Demon, and the Misfits wrestling.

 

Rock & Wrestling this was not.

[Epic Reine 0]

Summer of '99, when Hulkamania returned. It was all downhill from there.

[JoeDirt 0]

Hulk winning the title back the day after Bash at the Beach 1999. I don't know why, but this just showed to be that nothing would ever change in WCW. The real point of no return was probably earlier, but this really did it for me.

 

You could also say Souled Out 2000, and the whole time around then when so many guys got injured...Hart, Goldberg, Nash, Hall, Jarrett, etc.

[Guest LooneyTune]

WCW did so many fucking things wrong from 1998-2000 it's hard to point out to one thing.

 

1. The Fingerpoke of Doom

2. Cutting Goldbergs nuts off (not literally) at Starrcade 98

3. Pointless heel/face turns every week

4. Titles changing on an estimated every 2 weeks.

5. Jeff Jarrett; World Champion

6. nWo revival #496,988

 

The list goes on and on.

[Epic Reine 0]

Titles changing on an estimated every 2 weeks.

That's also one of the reason why the Invasion failed.