Senate to Vote on Minimum Wage

[NYU 0]

And if you actually SHOW up for work and do the menial job, YOU WON'T BE PAID MINIMUM WAGE FOR LONG.

 

If you're stuck working for minimum wage for years, it's because you don't show up to work or don't do your job worth a shit.

 

That's YOUR problem for throwing away your opportunity.

 

Right. As if making $6.25 has a huge difference over making $6.00.

 

Minimum wage jobs do not give you a high raise, if they give you one at all. The corporations could be rather cheap when it comes to that aspect. In that case, it's up the government to supervise the standard-of-living for Americans. Having to work a job without even getting the opportunity to support yourself on it fails the standard-of-living test.

 

There is no situation, whatsoever, where somebody with even the tiniest level of competence will be forced to work for minimum wage for any length of time.

 

Again, earning a few cents over minimum wage is not going to have an effect on anything.

 

I hope you're not saying, though, that there are no instances where anyone with even the tiniest level of competence would have to work a minimum-wage LEVEL job. Because then that would just be wrong.

 

No, you shouldn't. Minimum wage is not MEANT to be a wage to live off of. It can be done in some places, but that is NOT its intention.

 

Sometimes you don't have the option of not being able to live off it.

 

But if need be, you SHOULD be able to.

 

Just as Social Security was never intended to be peoples' pension plan.

 

Umm....okay.

 

Then put the kids up for adoption. If you're so irresponsible with your life that this is an issue, do something to make it better.

 

There you go. Screw the kids! Forget the mother or the father that actually PUTS in the effort to support the family. Just simply put up the kid for adoption. That's definitely the more humane option in the end.

 

Congratulations. You solved that issue.

 

Look, you must be disgruntled because you have a low paying minimum wage job, NY Untouchable, but believe me when i say raising the minimum wage won't do anything. Soon prices will go up and you still won't be able to afford it, and then there will be another talk of raising the wage.

 

So wait, let me get this straight. Because prices will go up and people won't be able to afford it...we shouldn't try to make changes at all? We should just keep the ineffective wages where they are? Keep the entire situation stagnant because, hell, it's only going to get worse eventually anyway?

 

Please.

 

And I'm not so much disgruntled as I understand the situation these people have to face. I've worked a minimum wage job before, but I haven't needed to live off it. I did work with people though who did. People with a fine work ethic, but people that found themselves backed into the situation at the present moment without another real alternative.

 

People don't live off a minimum wage job because they CHOOSE to.

 

Also, don't give me that crap that you can't work a second job while raising a family. I have a friend that works 3 jobs to support his wife and 3 kids. There has been many times I've worked 70-80 hours a week between 2 jobs; it can be done.

 

If you ever want to spend time with your kids, it pretty much can't.

 

And what happens to the plight of single parents then? Or are they just disregarded here too?

 

YES, they CAN dig holes for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week if they have to. It won't be easy, but they CAN do it.

 

Sure. Pluck out the average office person and demand they dig holes for 8 hours a day, 5 hours a week.

 

They'll pass out within the first few hours.

 

I've hauled around 50 pound bags on manure all day long in the summer in the past. I've cleaned bathrooms. I've done jobs that were brutally difficult --- but they were jobs that required absolutely no skill whatsoever and, thus, not worth more than minimum wage.

 

I'm not saying the people deserve to make more than minimum wage. I'm saying the minimum wage needs to be raised as a whole.

 

People simply should be able to live financially off a job. Regardless if you find it respectable and skillful or not. The idea that many of them can't is still a huge problem, despite the fact that you say it's not.

 

And seeing as how you don't even KNOW my financial class, you're doubly ignorant.

 

Being ignorant of something has never stopped you before.

Edited March 7, 2005 by NY Untouchable

[Secret Agent 0]

 

Look, you must be disgruntled because you have a low paying minimum wage job, NY Untouchable, but believe me when i say raising the minimum wage won't do anything. Soon prices will go up and you still won't be able to afford it, and then there will be another talk of raising the wage.

 

 

 

So wait, let me get this straight. Because prices will go up and people won't be able to afford it...we shouldn't try to make changes at all? We should just keep the ineffective wages where they are? Keep the entire situation stagnant because, hell, it's only going to get worse eventually anyway?

 

Please.

 

And I'm not so much disgruntled as I understand the situation these people have to face. I've worked a minimum wage job before, but I haven't needed to live off it. I did work with people though who did. People with a fine work ethic, but people that found themselves backed into the situation at the present moment without another real alternative.

 

People don't live off a minimum wage job because they CHOOSE to.

 

I didn't say we shouldn't do anything about poor people and what not. Raising minimum wage is not the cure. Companies will just pass this cost off to the consumer and the difference in income that you make will just go to paying more for the same item. If you can't afford your rent now, an extra 12 bucks a week isn't going to allow you to afford it and prices will still go up.

 

Also, most other jobs don't give raises to all their employees when minimum wage goes up. However, those employees will still have to pay a higher price for goods.

 

 

Also, don't give me that crap that you can't work a second job while raising a family. I have a friend that works 3 jobs to support his wife and 3 kids. There has been many times I've worked 70-80 hours a week between 2 jobs; it can be done. 

 

 

 

If you ever want to spend time with your kids, it pretty much can't.

 

And what happens to the plight of single parents then? Or are they just disregarded here too?

 

If I had to choose between giving my kids food in their mouth and a roof over their head I'd work, work, work, work. 2,3,4 jobs if I had to - seeing them alive and healthy takes presidence over spending time with them.

 

For the single parent there is always Government assistance.

[Guest MikeSC]

And if you actually SHOW up for work and do the menial job, YOU WON'T BE PAID MINIMUM WAGE FOR LONG.

 

If you're stuck working for minimum wage for years, it's because you don't show up to work or don't do your job worth a shit.

 

That's YOUR problem for throwing away your opportunity.

Right. As if making $6.25 has a huge difference over making $6.00.

It's called moving up the ladder.

 

And, time for a newsflash: Should the minimum wage go up -- the same people who can't make a living off of it STILL won't be able to do so. And when prices go up to pay for it, OTHERS will have the problem.

 

But, hey, SPREAD THE MISERY!

Minimum wage jobs do not give you a high raise, if they give you one at all.

They provide you the chance to move up. McDonald's cashiers can move up to supervisory positions. It's called career progression.

The corporations could be rather cheap when it comes to that aspect. In that case, it's up the government to supervise the standard-of-living for Americans. Having to work a job without even getting the opportunity to support yourself on it fails the standard-of-living test.

So screw over everybody else with an increased cost of living due to a minimum wage to help the people who won't actually do work?

There is no situation, whatsoever, where somebody with even the tiniest level of competence will be forced to work for minimum wage for any length of time.

Again, earning a few cents over minimum wage is not going to have an effect on anything.

Just checking --- have you ever had to hold a job?

I hope you're not saying, though, that there are no instances where anyone with even the tiniest level of competence would have to work a minimum-wage LEVEL job. Because then that would just be wrong.

Hence the phrase "There is no situation, whatsoever, where somebody with even the tiniest level of competence will be forced to work for minimum wage for any length of time."

No, you shouldn't. Minimum wage is not MEANT to be a wage to live off of. It can be done in some places, but that is NOT its intention.

Sometimes you don't have the option of not being able to live off it.

 

But if need be, you SHOULD be able to.

No, you shouldn't be able to. If you have to work a minimum wage job --- then get TWO of them to make ends meet.

Then put the kids up for adoption. If you're so irresponsible with your life that this is an issue, do something to make it better.

There you go. Screw the kids!

Leaving them with parents who can't afford to feed them is a better alternative?

Forget the mother or the father that actually PUTS in the effort to support the family. Just simply put up the kid for adoption. That's definitely the more humane option in the end.

Hmm...adoption v starvation? Yup, tough choice there.

Look, you must be disgruntled because you have a low paying minimum wage job, NY Untouchable, but believe me when i say raising the minimum wage won't do anything. Soon prices will go up and you still won't be able to afford it, and then there will be another talk of raising the wage.

So wait, let me get this straight. Because prices will go up and people won't be able to afford it...we shouldn't try to make changes at all?

It'd be as effective as running up the down escalator.

And I'm not so much disgruntled as I understand the situation these people have to face. I've worked a minimum wage job before, but I haven't needed to live off it. I did work with people though who did. People with a fine work ethic, but people that found themselves backed into the situation at the present moment without another real alternative.

And the reason they're facing it is due to their poor decisions.

People don't live off a minimum wage job because they CHOOSE to.

Actually, yes they do. Don't study in school. Don't go to college. Don't show up for work on-time. Don't actually do the work well.

 

Those are CHOICES.

We should just keep the ineffective wages where they are? Keep the entire situation stagnant because, hell, it's only going to get worse eventually anyway?

"Well, yeah, this will end up not helping the poor --- but it'll screw over the ones who are lower middle class. It's a GREAT idea!"

Also, don't give me that crap that you can't work a second job while raising a family. I have a friend that works 3 jobs to support his wife and 3 kids. There has been many times I've worked 70-80 hours a week between 2 jobs; it can be done.

If you ever want to spend time with your kids, it pretty much can't.

You made your choices. Don't bitch because you can't do all you want to handle the consequences.

 

My brother bitches incessantly that he can't spend a lot of time with his kids --- but he chose to be a lawyer. Whose fault is that?

And what happens to the plight of single parents then? Or are they just disregarded here too?

This, again, is their problem. If they can't AFFORD to have children, then let families who want kids adopt them.

YES, they CAN dig holes for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week if they have to. It won't be easy, but they CAN do it.

Sure. Pluck out the average office person and demand they dig holes for 8 hours a day, 5 hours a week.

 

They'll pass out within the first few hours.

Pick the average person off the street and ask them to pull off a successful double bypass surgery and they couldn't BEGIN to do it.

 

Ask them to face, oh, Todd Van Poppel for 100 hours and get even 15 hits and they couldn't do it.

 

Ask them to pull down a score below par playing golf and they cannot.

 

Give them a shovel and they CAN dig holes.

 

Get it yet?

I've hauled around 50 pound bags on manure all day long in the summer in the past. I've cleaned bathrooms. I've done jobs that were brutally difficult --- but they were jobs that required absolutely no skill whatsoever and, thus, not worth more than minimum wage.

I'm not saying the people deserve to make more than minimum wage. I'm saying the minimum wage needs to be raised as a whole.

And I say they do not. If your job can be done by a chimp with minimal training, then you're being overpaid NO MATTER what you are paid.

People simply should be able to live financially off a job. Regardless if you find it respectable and skillful or not. The idea that many of them can't is still a huge problem, despite the fact that you say it's not.

No, there is no "Can't". They CHOOSE not to. They chose their path in life. And there are so many programs to help them and if they refuse to take them, whose fault is that?

And seeing as how you don't even KNOW my financial class, you're doubly ignorant.

Being ignorant of something has never stopped you before.

I've DONE manual labor.

 

Have you?

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I wanted to see what you guys thought of this new bankruptcy bill. It seems pretty terrible to me so far--throwing a bone to credit card companies, essentially.

 

I particularly would like to hear a conservative (preferably non-Mike-->Boon, Justice, & Cerebus, I'm looking at YOU) viewpoint on the bill, as it is a primarily GOP supported piece of legislation.

[Guest MikeSC]

I wanted to see what you guys thought of this new bankruptcy bill. It seems pretty terrible to me so far--throwing a bone to credit card companies, essentially.

 

I particularly would like to hear a conservative (preferably non-Mike-->Boon, Justice, & Cerebus, I'm looking at YOU) viewpoint on the bill, as it is a primarily GOP supported piece of legislation.

Bite me.

 

Credit card companies are a legit industry and if people do not want their services, they do not have to accept their services.

 

There are already protections for consumers who, much as people may wish to ignore it, USED the services constantly and got in over their heads.

 

Oh well.

-=Mike

[Guest CronoT]

I already make almost a dollar more than that, so anyone who thinks raising it to $7.25 would cause small businesses to bankrupt is a fuckhead.

 

(Note: I am not addressing anyone in this thread in particular, since I only read the first 4 or 5 posts. )

[Guest MikeSC]

I already make almost a dollar more than that, so anyone who thinks raising it to $7.25 would cause small businesses to bankrupt is a fuckhead.

 

(Note: I am not addressing anyone in this thread in particular, since I only read the first 4 or 5 posts. )

Your company opts to pay you that amount.

 

They don't have to.

-=Mike

[Damaramu 0]

Minimum wage was never intended to be a wage for working adults making their career out of it. How somebody stays at that low level is beyond me. Even if your working at McDonald's you can put some effort in and get promoted to a shift manager, assistant manager, and so forth. Hell, when minimum wage in Oklahoma was 5.15 I was making 9.50/hr at Carl's freaking Jr of all places.

 

All this will do is further decrease the value of an American dollar.

You're right. I haven't made minimum wage since I was 16 and working at the mall.

And minimum wage is fine for those kids that don't need to pay bills.

But at my age(20) I really am not going to get a job that will pay me minimum wage. I wouldn't take a job like that and it's actually rare that I run across a job that pays just minimum wage.

Where are all of these people that are making minimum wage that aren't working in the mall?

Seriously my local McDonalds pays 6.50 starting wage.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I already make almost a dollar more than that, so anyone who thinks raising it to $7.25 would cause small businesses to bankrupt is a fuckhead.

 

(Note: I am not addressing anyone in this thread in particular, since I only read the first 4 or 5 posts. )

Actually you'd be the fuckhead. Hi, small business owner here and I can tell you for a fact it would hinder my business greatly if they raised the minimum wage like this. It'd take me twice as long to have the resources to hire people with that kind of a hike.

 

This won't do anyone any good. You're going to make it harder for people to find jobs and you'll be fucking over those people making 8-12 an hour by upping the cost of everything. Most businesses will just opt to hire fewer people and work the ones they do harder than before. No one really wins in that situation.

 

And if you're out of college and working for minimum wage you're an utter loser. You can work in a fucking factory or an overnight shift at a gas station and make well over minimum wage.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Most individuals who file for bankruptcy do so because of serious medical problems (i.e. a battle w/ cancer). These people are now fucked.

[Guest MikeSC]

Most individuals who file for bankruptcy do so because of serious medical problems (i.e. a battle w/ cancer). These people are now fucked.

And that is a shame. It really is.

 

But the credit companies did their job and deserve compensation for their services.

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

Most individuals who file for bankruptcy do so because of serious medical problems (i.e. a battle w/ cancer).  These people are now fucked.

And that is a shame. It really is.

 

But the credit companies did their job and deserve compensation for their services.

-=Mike

At the same time though, the credit card companies know damn well when they are locking low-wage earners into a life-time worth of debt in the form of a plastic card, they know what they are getting into, and the 90% chance that these clients have absolutely no chance of managing and/or making an adequate payment on a monthly basis.

[Guest MikeSC]

Most individuals who file for bankruptcy do so because of serious medical problems (i.e. a battle w/ cancer).  These people are now fucked.

And that is a shame. It really is.

 

But the credit companies did their job and deserve compensation for their services.

-=Mike

At the same time though, the credit card companies know damn well when they are locking low-wage earners into a life-time worth of debt in the form of a plastic card, they know what they are getting into, and the 90% chance that these clients have absolutely no chance of managing and/or making an adequate payment on a monthly basis.

But the people still make the choice themselves.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I have no sympathy for credit card companies that whine because too many people aren't paying their bills. If you don't want this to happen, be more selective in who you give a card to. Of course then you'll declared a RACIST or something because you won't give enough cards to some racial group but that's another story for another time...

[tommytomlin 0]

Would those opposed to a minimum wage rise be opposed to one that was adjusted for inflation every year or two years?

 

I'm not baiting for an answer either way, it's just interesting to compare American attitudes which seem to rely on individual responsibility and market forces when dictating wage policy to the attitudes in a country like Australia, where wages are dictated by the notion of a 'fair go' and arbitration.

[Ripper 0]

You can tell the people that have never had to work a day in their lives from the ones living in the real world.

 

In the REAL world, showing up to work, and being a hard worker doesn't mean shit. Seroiusly...it doesn't. There are times and opportunities that might arise, but right now there is some dude that has been at his job for years and showed up to work on time everyday and works his ass off and he has seen no advancement for it.

 

Dumbass people say "why doesn't he just quit and get another job". Well because John Q. Hardworker has a family that he has to support and goes to his second job when he leaves there and gets home exhausted and does this 6-7 days a week. He can't afford to quit and find another job because that is time where no income in comeing in. And we know that someone like mike isn't saying let him get on unemployment insurance during that time, because, you know, that is WRONG.

 

Fun Fact: Finding a new job requires time to look and apply and go on interviews.

 

So basically so many people who are in the "have" catagory keep pretending that those in the "have not" catagory are lazy or not hard workers or unskilled or whatever and continue to prove what stupid ass cunts they are. OPPORTUNITY and/or HARDWORK will allow you to succed, hardwork alone will not. That "the poor are poor because they don't work hard not to be" has got to be the dumbest thinking in the world.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Again, the minimum wage is a crock. You know what raising the minimum wage accomplishes?

 

It raises all the boats of those people affected in the short-run. They gain.

 

Then, two occurences.

 

Employers substitute away from labor intensive methods to capital intensive methods.

 

The rise in the cost of production completely offsets any gains of living standards caused by the wage hike.

 

But then again, that's just economic fact.

[2GOLD 0]

I was one of the smart few who realized a credit card is seriously nothing but major f'n trouble.

 

I stuck with my debit card and life has been fine. My Dad has a credit card and he will NEVER get it paid off because the interest rate is just UNFORGIVEN.

 

If I can't afford it, I don't get it. With a credit card, I'd be stuck with this illusion I have money I don't.

 

500 dollars in regular world is 1,500 dollars you'll never pay back in credit card world.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

I was one of the smart few who realized a credit card is seriously nothing but major f'n trouble.

 

I stuck with my debit card and life has been fine. My Dad has a credit card and he will NEVER get it paid off because the interest rate is just UNFORGIVEN.

 

If I can't afford it, I don't get it. With a credit card, I'd be stuck with this illusion I have money I don't.

 

500 dollars in regular world is 1,500 dollars you'll never pay back in credit card world.

Kudos to you, man. Those things are a credit death trap to many.

[Ripper 0]

I would like to point out that I still feel that the whole credit rateing thing is BS.

 

I have so much shit on my Credit Report that is the case of some company trying to get over and selling it off to a credit collection agency quickly so you can't really dispute it with them any more. Bullshit. BULLSHIT.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

If you don't want this to happen, be more selective in who you give...to.

 

Oh they're selective alright. They target dumb irresponsible teenagers and college students.

 

MNBA America Bank (one of the top three credit card issuers in the US) is also pretty selective with its funds. After all, it was the single largest corporate donor to the Bush/Cheney campaign.

[sfaJack 0]

But they still don't force those stupid teenagers or college students (or anyone else) to actually use their cards, just as they don't force those people to apply for the card. Their offering a card is just that: an offer. The individual has to decide whether to accept it or not.

 

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the individual that made the conscious decision to obtain the card and then use it. It's ridiculous to me that people think it's the company's fault they got themselves in trouble. It's no less aburd than a fat ass blaming McDonald's for making him fat.

 

And, just speaking from my own experience, MBNA actually is more selective than other companies. They made me get a signed letter from the HR department of my company stating I was employed and made at least X amount of money before they authorized my new account.

[Ripper 0]

But they still don't force those stupid teenagers or college students (or anyone else) to actually use their cards, just as they don't force those people to apply for the card.  Their offering a card is just that: an offer.  The individual has to decide whether to accept it or not. 

 

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the individual that made the conscious decision to obtain the card and then use it.  It's ridiculous to me that people think it's the company's fault they got themselves in trouble.  It's no less aburd than a fat ass blaming McDonald's for making him fat. 

Because lord knows that giving kids 5000 dollars with the understanding they have to pay it back when they are broke and in college is perfectly okay and no fault of the credit card companies.

 

Shit why don't we let Sponge Bob be the new spokesperson for Newport, and run commercials on Nick Jr. all day. I mean, its not like he is actually putting the cigerette in the kids mouth.

 

Sadly they have credit card applications in the welcoming pack to alot of colleges, they are in the Student Services areas, they are there to entise kids and its wrong.

[sfaJack 0]

I won't deny that a credit card is very tempting, nor am I going to say that I haven't used one to delay paying for an item until the end of the month. And I'm aware college campuses are loaded with credit card applications as I was bombarded with them constantly while in school. But do you know how easy it was to just tear them up and throw them away? Takes 2 seconds.

 

Why are we talking only about stupid teenagers and college students though? Though I have no statistics in front of me to say one way or another, I'd be willing to bet that a good chunk, if not a clear majority, of outstanding balances are not made up of stupid teenagers and college students. Just here in my office, there are at least three families knee deep in credit card debt (among other types of debt) because they constantly take weekend road trips, buy lift kits for their pickup, and eat out five nights a week. Is THAT the credit card companies' fault?

 

And what is the alternative? Do we want to make some sort of law that says you have to be 25, married, and have $10,000 saved in the bank before you can get a card? Who should they offer credit cards to?

 

While the credit card companies are not totally blameless in all this mess, the number of people failing to accept responsibility for their own actions (and the number of others supporting their doing so) is disturbing. I guess I'm just tired of seeing dumbasses using the cards as a tool to live a lifestyle they can't afford. I pity those folks whose medical bills or job loss forces them into debt (a compeletely different situation altogether), but I just can't support people getting off the hook for their own irresponsible behavoir that is nobody's fault but their own.

[Ripper 0]

I understand that it is avoidable for young people to get around applying for a card, but lets be realistic. If you start shilling free money to college kids they are going to go for it. They do make up a large percentage of credit card debts, which is why the credit card companies target them most aggresively. They know either the student or mommy and daddy will probably pick up the tab. People in urban areas are more likely to take the card, but they also know that there is a greater liklihood they will never recieve that money back so they don't go for them(really, you aren't going to find a credit card application anywhere in the innercity). It is at best shady advertising practices so i don't want to see them whining about "we wants our money" when they are creating a situation to take advatange of those they KNOW can't pay the immediate balance and they can rape with intrest and late charges later.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I pity those folks whose medical bills or job loss forces them into debt (a compeletely different situation altogether)

 

Then you should oppose this bankruptcy bill, since the majority of personal bankruptcies occur for medical reasons.

[Ripper 0]

No they aren't.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

No they aren't.

Yep, they are.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Don't worry, though, the bankruptcy bill has a nice little loophole for the super rich.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/02/business...print&position=

 

And it's not gonna touch corporations in the slightest bit.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...9-2005Mar2.html

[megaadvice 0]

Argueing about this is piontless, it is the sort of matter that your either going to be for or against depending on where your coming from politically.

 

Anyway you say the minimum wage will RISE to $7 something, just for comparison the minimum wage in the UK is going to rise to £5.15 next year. If i'm right the exchange rate now is around 1.90, so in the UK the minimum wage would be about $9.70 an hour