Austin/Owen Friction

[Vern Gagne 0]

Also, I believe the friction basically stemmed from the fact they were basically complete opposites. Austin drank, and Owen didn't. Owen also felt bad for Debra since she was in an abusive relationship with Mongo, but I don't know if Austin was abusive at that time. But I digress.

Austin didn't start dating Debra until after his neck surgery in the fall of 1999.

[IWD 0]

Debre, Jarrett, Henry, Foley, HHH and Bossman were by far the most emotional speeches.

I thought Jarrett was the most emotional of them. Really quite moving.

 

Cheers.

[MrRant 0]

I can't for the life of me find the episode for download anywhere.

[cameron chaos 0]

Bret Hart said in an interview during his WCW tenure Owen and HHH didn't like each other but worked together after Bret left because Bret said if Vince wouldn't let him out of his contract, to just do business rather than blackball himself by making problems. He said he heard about HHH crying on the tribute episode and it made him feel disgusted, that one of the guys who knew about the Montreal screwjob and had a hand in derailing Owen's push against Michaels, as he felt it was insincere and merely Hunter putting himself over. He also mentioned Rock, Foley and Jarrett called a couple of days after and they spoke about Owen with him and offered their condolences and he appreciated that.

[nl5xsk1 0]

He said he heard about HHH crying on the tribute episode and it made him feel disgusted, that one of the guys who knew about the Montreal screwjob

For fuck's sake, why would Bret need to bring the MTL screwjob up during this?!?

[cameron chaos 0]

He said he heard about HHH crying on the tribute episode and it made him feel disgusted, that one of the guys who knew about the Montreal screwjob

For fuck's sake, why would Bret need to bring the MTL screwjob up during this?!?

The interview was in 1999 so he was still pretty bitter.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

If Triple H was faking it then he is a hell of an actor.

[Guest LooneyTune]

If that was fake, he fooled me. Usually I can see through eveything "emotional" done by Hunter like a wet tissue.

[Hoff 0]

You gotta remember that H truly does seem to love wrestling, so he probably was broken up at least by the circumstances if nothing else. Plus, even the villian knows that the hero is a hero, if you feel me. When a guy like Owen passes on, someone who's truly respected as a nice guy and a professional, it hits everybody pretty hard, even the people who didn't necessarily care for him.

[Hoff 0]

He said he heard about HHH crying on the tribute episode and it made him feel disgusted, that one of the guys who knew about the Montreal screwjob

For fuck's sake, why would Bret need to bring the MTL screwjob up during this?!?

The interview was in 1999 so he was still pretty bitter.

Yeah. At this point, Bret could be baking a cake and he'd probably bring Montreal up to the icing. "I can't believe it, Betty Crocker."

[iliketurtles 0]

I read somewhere once that HHH was reading off cue cards, but I think it was from someone ridlicious.

 

And as much as you guys get on Bret about the screwjob thing, imagine being in his shoes. I would of been openly pissed off as much as he was. The guy can't get his brother out of his contract to come with him, and then he's dead within a year and a half after being depushed when they could of made him into next level of a superstar?

[Guest LooneyTune]

If Bret Hart fucked up baking a cake, someone would probably say "Betty Crocker screwed Bret."

[Jericholic82 0]

Dont know for sure but prior to ss97 they were at least cordial with each other (watch the beyond the mat directors cut for the bonus footage of dude loves first wwf apperance, as HBK talks to Mick, you can see austin and owen talking by the curtains-dont think this means theyw ere buddies but they probably respected each other. It's hard to blame steve for being upset, as he was in the middle of a monster push and was more over than he had been in his enitre career. It could have stopped the austin era of wwf in its tracks (and in fact it did lead to austins carreer being cut short a bit) I am sure that Steve was not happy that Owen died. and when he did his salute, you could see the tears about welling up in his eyes as he tried to keep his composure.

 

Jeff Jarett was really upset. You could tell he really liked Owen (they had been tagging for months so they probably had got very close) I met Jeff once and he was talking about Owen and I could tell from his voice that he really missed owen.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I remember Shamrock being one of the only guys that wrestled that didn't have an armband on. I always wondered about that.

 

I noticed that too, though I suspect a lot of us did. There's two schools of thought:

 

1) Remember the Seinfeld where Kramer goes on the Aids Walk? He refuses to wear an arm band, but is clearly hoping to stop Aids. Maybe Shamrock was the same way, just because he didn't wear a band doesn't mean he wasn't upset.

 

2) I had a gym teacher who met Shamrock and said he was a cynical, emotionless shithead. Maybe this applies.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

Dont know for sure but prior to ss97 they were at least cordial with each other (watch the beyond the mat directors cut for the bonus footage of dude loves first wwf apperance, as HBK talks to Mick, you can see austin and owen talking by the curtains-dont think this means theyw ere buddies but they probably respected each other. It's hard to blame steve for being upset, as he was in the middle of a monster push and was more over than he had been in his enitre career. It could have stopped the austin era of wwf in its tracks (and in fact it did lead to austins carreer being cut short a bit) I am sure that Steve was not happy that Owen died. and when he did his salute, you could see the tears about welling up in his eyes as he tried to keep his composure.

 

Jeff Jarett was really upset. You could tell he really liked Owen (they had been tagging for months so they probably had got very close) I met Jeff once and he was talking about Owen and I could tell from his voice that he really missed owen.

Austin/Owen worked a match that night (Survivor Series 97) so they would have to talk to work out the match

[CBright7831 0]

But Mick wrestled as Manking at Survivor Series 97, not Dude Love.

[cameron chaos 0]

2) I had a gym teacher who met Shamrock and said he was a cynical, emotionless shithead. Maybe this applies.

I've heard tales of Shammy heelhooking and virtually crippling would be tough guys that have walked into the Lion's Den. Every MMA gym has to deal with them and it usually ends in the musclehead getting schooled technically (I've dealt with a few in the last three years myself) however rumours abound of Shammy and Guy Mezger injuring guys to show them who is the real tough guy.

 

I wouldn't put it past Shammy to have resolved internally "he died doing what he loved, there is nothing to be sad about" given his screwed up mentality (claiming he stole Royce Gracie's fighting spirit, believing Tito Ortiz is nothing after getting his face beat into a new shape at his hands etc).

[Guest LooneyTune]

Re Ken Shamrock:

 

He can go fuck himself. He's a dickhead who demands respect for being a fighter who can't beat anyone thats any good.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

2) I had a gym teacher who met Shamrock and said he was a cynical, emotionless shithead. Maybe this applies.

I've heard tales of Shammy heelhooking and virtually crippling would be tough guys that have walked into the Lion's Den. Every MMA gym has to deal with them and it usually ends in the musclehead getting schooled technically (I've dealt with a few in the last three years myself) however rumours abound of Shammy and Guy Mezger injuring guys to show them who is the real tough guy.

 

I wouldn't put it past Shammy to have resolved internally "he died doing what he loved, there is nothing to be sad about" given his screwed up mentality (claiming he stole Royce Gracie's fighting spirit, believing Tito Ortiz is nothing after getting his face beat into a new shape at his hands etc).

Mezger too? That's disappointing, he seemed like a cool guy.

 

From most accounts, dojos generally stretch new people, but they don't maliciously inted to hurt them.

[cameron chaos 0]

2) I had a gym teacher who met Shamrock and said he was a cynical, emotionless shithead. Maybe this applies.

I've heard tales of Shammy heelhooking and virtually crippling would be tough guys that have walked into the Lion's Den. Every MMA gym has to deal with them and it usually ends in the musclehead getting schooled technically (I've dealt with a few in the last three years myself) however rumours abound of Shammy and Guy Mezger injuring guys to show them who is the real tough guy.

 

I wouldn't put it past Shammy to have resolved internally "he died doing what he loved, there is nothing to be sad about" given his screwed up mentality (claiming he stole Royce Gracie's fighting spirit, believing Tito Ortiz is nothing after getting his face beat into a new shape at his hands etc).

Mezger too? That's disappointing, he seemed like a cool guy.

 

From most accounts, dojos generally stretch new people, but they don't maliciously inted to hurt them.

A good dojo will stretch a brash guy to put him in his place (I've cranked an armbar now and then to make a point) but anyone that will intentionally injure someone just to feed their ego or show the tough guy who is really top dog is an asshole.

 

I was surprised to hear about Mezger also, but they are shootfight stylists rather than strict martial artists, I've known more than one shooter to pull tricks others won't out of respect, so it's not hard to believe.

[MikeJordan23 0]

Dont know for sure but prior to ss97 they were at least cordial with each other (watch the beyond the mat directors cut for the bonus footage of dude loves first wwf apperance, as HBK talks to Mick, you can see austin and owen talking by the curtains-dont think this means theyw ere buddies but they probably respected each other. It's hard to blame steve for being upset, as he was in the middle of a monster push and was more over than he had been in his enitre career. It could have stopped the austin era of wwf in its tracks (and in fact it did lead to austins carreer being cut short a bit) I am sure that Steve was not happy that Owen died. and when he did his salute, you could see the tears about welling up in his eyes as he tried to keep his composure.

 

Jeff Jarett was really upset. You could tell he really liked Owen (they had been tagging for months so they probably had got very close) I met Jeff once and he was talking about Owen and I could tell from his voice that he really missed owen.

Bret and Shawn talked to each other right after the SS 97 match, doesn't mean much.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

For CC; do you have any stories of Guy or Ken hurting guys and being assholes in general, and what happened to the guy? It's kind of hypocritical for Ken to always talk about being respectful and shit when he goes and becomes an ass in his training centre. Sort of makes you happy that Tito bitched both him and Guy out.

 

Oh, and Frank was never like that right? I guess this is another reason why him and Ken don't get along. Frank always seemed like a much cooler guy than his "brother".

[The Czech Republic 0]

But Mick wrestled as Manking at Survivor Series 97, not Dude Love.

I am convinced that this is the most common wrestling typo in existence.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

Dont know for sure but prior to ss97 they were at least cordial with each other (watch the beyond the mat directors cut for the bonus footage of dude loves first wwf apperance, as HBK talks to Mick, you can see austin and owen talking by the curtains-dont think this means theyw ere buddies but they probably respected each other.  It's hard to blame steve for being upset, as he was in the middle of a monster push and was more over than he had been in his enitre career.  It could have stopped the austin era of wwf in its tracks (and in fact it did lead to austins carreer being cut short a bit)  I am sure that Steve was not happy that Owen died.  and when he did his salute, you could see the tears about welling up in his eyes as he tried to keep his composure.

 

Jeff Jarett was really upset. You could tell he really liked Owen (they had been tagging for months so they probably had got very close) I met Jeff once and he was talking about Owen and I could tell from his voice that he really missed owen.

Austin/Owen worked a match that night (Survivor Series 97) so they would have to talk to work out the match

Difference between talking in the social sense and talking in a "Look we have a job to do, lets do this" way

 

I'm sure Mike Piazza and Roger Clemens talked prior to the All Star Game in 2004 and they HATE each other

 

Steve

[Jingus 0]

Austin and Owen were feuding throughout the whole second half of 1997, so who knows exactly whether the conversation that Beyond the Mat caught was about. Sometimes you just have to talk to a coworker you hate, there's a million possible reasons.

 

I think Austin does have a legitimate gripe about the Summerslam incident. You never drop to your ass when delivering an inverted/tombstone piledriver like that. Doing so almost guarantees that you'll seriously fuck up your opponent. For an example of how to do it right, watch Taka Michinoku or Rikishi do their finishes: they hold the guy much higher up than Owen did.

[iliketurtles 0]

And if you watch the Owen Driver '97 (as it's been dubbed), Owen takes none of the bump on his ass. All of the contact goes straight to Austin.

[Jericholic82 0]

Austin and Owen were feuding throughout the whole second half of 1997, so who knows exactly whether the conversation that Beyond the Mat caught was about. Sometimes you just have to talk to a coworker you hate, there's a million possible reasons.

 

I think Austin does have a legitimate gripe about the Summerslam incident. You never drop to your ass when delivering an inverted/tombstone piledriver like that. Doing so almost guarantees that you'll seriously fuck up your opponent. For an example of how to do it right, watch Taka Michinoku or Rikishi do their finishes: they hold the guy much higher up than Owen did.

I didnt mean to say that proved they were firends I was just poitning out something I had just watched sorry. I thought it was ironic since it was mere weeks before summerslam. Accoridng to foleys books, Austin used to enjoy owens antics and pranks, like when they had the match where Foley used popcorn on owen and austin was at ringside laughing. So maybe he wasnt that angry with him, but still understandable why he would be mad. However I dont think he was glad that owen died.

[Guest cosbywasmurdered]

He said he heard about HHH crying on the tribute episode and it made him feel disgusted, that one of the guys who knew about the Montreal screwjob

For fuck's sake, why would Bret need to bring the MTL screwjob up during this?!?

Because the Montreal screwjob didn't just fuck him over, it fucked Owen too.

[cameron chaos 0]

For CC; do you have any stories of Guy or Ken hurting guys and being assholes in general, and what happened to the guy? It's kind of hypocritical for Ken to always talk about being respectful and shit when he goes and becomes an ass in his training centre. Sort of makes you happy that Tito bitched both him and Guy out.

 

Oh, and Frank was never like that right? I guess this is another reason why him and Ken don't get along. Frank always seemed like a much cooler guy than his "brother".

There's the semi infamous story of Ken in his WWE days seeing a guy reprimanding his son on a golf course for slicing into the woods, so Ken strolled over and basically ripped the guy a new asshole verbally until he pissed himself in front of his own son.

 

The tales of him proving himself to be a tough guy are quite well known, particularly in the early days of the Lion's Den when they had TMA guys strolling in thinking the were the shit. There was a guy on Sherdog that said he went to Lion's Den Dallas to visit and meet the guys, just roll and spar with some legends. Apparently he was a Brazilian jiujitsu blue belt and since Ken still has a monkey on his back over Royce to this day, he asked him if he'd ever trained with the Gracies and offered to roll with him. A few minutes lather he got kneebar/heelhook combo'd and was out for a couple of months with an ACL tear, dislocated knee and busted ankle as a result, all because he wanted to have the opportunity to roll with some fighters. Guy took up the mantle of asshole while Ken was in the WWF, from all accounts, but is apparently much more mellow and personable these days. That may have something to do with the mini-stroke incident he had last year prior to the War Of '04 match up he was scheduled for, but that's for another thread.

 

Frank from all accounts is a tad full of himself but a very good teacher and very respectful of all martial artists. Dean Lister, Tito Ortiz, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka and Roy Harris have nothing but praise for his skills and training techniques. Considering Tito hardly respects ANYONE, even a guy like Lidell who dropped him like a bad habit, that's saying something. I have met a few guys that have went to Frank's seminars in the past over here and most say his speed and fluidity of technique is something else. Only guy I know of that has ever had an issue with Frank is Bas Rutten, and even he respects him even if he doesn't like him.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Why does Bas hate him? They fought like three times.

 

I think Frank is probably the most gifted athlete to ever step into MMA. The guy is just naturally RIPPED. Like, he's as strong as he could be but as agile too. To see him work armbars and other submissions is another story as the guy could move on the mat like no one else.

 

So the dad yelled at his kid then causing the defender of the little people Ken Shamrock to chew him out?

 

A BJJ Blue Belt is pretty high, I'd expect him to be able to keep up with Ken. Ken is fucked up when he talks about Royce though, all that shit about taking his soul or something.

 

You'd think Guy would have lightened up after he was KTFO (and by KTFO I mean KNOCKED TEH FUCK OUT~!) by both Silva and especially Liddell. Do you have any Guy stories?