Triple-H and Wrestlemania

[Guest Failed Mascot]

One of the major things that got me to basically turn the WWE off and watch something else was my growing boredom with Triple-H. Now my intent here isn't to make a Bash Triple-H thread but really, the guy is quite stale and has been for a few years now. The other night after talking to CWM about WrestleMania I tried to think of the last WrestleMania that didn't somewhat revolve around Triple-H and had a hard time doing so. Just now I went and looked and found that(including this upcoming WrestleMania) 4 out of the last 6 WrestleManias have been headlined by Triple-H. Only one of the last 6 has he not been champion (That would be X-7 where he took on Taker while Austin did his horrid heel turn). Kind of hard to believe that guys like Benoit, Jericho, and even Foley weren't allowed to Main Event a WrestleMania without Triple-H there to hog a good deal of the spotlight from them.

[Downhome 0]

Now my intent here isn't to make a Bash Triple-H thread...

Uh huh.

[Guest Shadow]

Hogan main evented NINE straight of them(yes he didnt wrestle the main for 4 but he was involved and closed the show at 9 with the title, so it counts as the "main event")

 

....I can deal with 5 main events in 7 years. (2000, 2002, 2004 and likely 2005). My only problem is that WM2000 should have been Triple H Vs The Rock.

 

18, it shouldn't have been the main event.

[SuperJerk 0]

Triple-H and Wrestlemania, One of my main problems with the guy

 

I like the way we hate HHH so much that our problems with him get classified into multiple categories.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Triple H is headlining shows when there are at least 10 people who could do it (when combining SD and RAW). When Hogan was on top, you had 2 or 3 guys on top, leading to not too many different choices for main events.

 

To drive a pointless bullet in, Hogan has outdrawn Triple H by a million times, so I think him main eventing in his initial run in the WWF is smart business.

[Promoter 0]

Triple-H and Wrestlemania, One of my main problems with the guy

 

I like the way we hate HHH so much that our problems with him get classified into multiple categories.

 

This guy probably is the best heel going today

 

As for Hogan headlining all those Manias I think we have to remember one thing. HULKAMANIA was before WrestleMania. Make the connection!

[Styles 0]

Eh, I see your point, but he's the heir apparent, wants to be the new Hogan/Flair and there's no one who can stop him so just get used to it. He's been positioned as the top guy for years now, so logically the top guy should headline WM...

 

WM18 should have ended with Hogan/Rock, but I can rationalize that by saying Jericho got to work a WM main event.

WM 19 he was in the FOURTH match from the top, in a title match no less, so you can't fault him for stealing it there.

and WM20 made sense for Benoit's moment to come true, and it was Michaels not HHH who seemed forced into the match (no doubt he made it a great match though).

 

So...he really hasn't put WM around himself besides at 16 which was just horrid booking...

[Precious Roy 0]

One of the major things that got me to basically turn the WWE off and watch something else was my growing boredom with Triple-H. Now my intent here isn't to make a Bash Triple-H thread but really, the guy is quite stale and has been for a few years now. The other night after talking to CWM about WrestleMania I tried to think of the last WrestleMania that didn't somewhat revolve around Triple-H and had a hard time doing so. Just now I went and looked and found that(including this upcoming WrestleMania) 4 out of the last 6 WrestleManias have been headlined by Triple-H. Only one of the last 6 has he not been champion (That would be X-7 where he took on Taker while Austin did his horrid heel turn). Kind of hard to believe that guys like Benoit, Jericho, and even Foley weren't allowed to Main Event a WrestleMania without Triple-H there to hog a good deal of the spotlight from them.

I feel the same exact way.

 

He's headlined every Mania since XVI save one, and that one was actually my favorite of all his Mania programs, and Benoit taken out of the equation my favorite match of the bunch as well.

 

The only other guy to headline that many Manias was Hogan, a superhero face, and fans finally got bored of it. Doing the same thing with a heel who's not nearly the draw that Hogan was just doesn't make sense to me, and odds are he'll be headlining every Mania for the forseeable future.

 

With a character as strong and established as his they really don't need the title or the main event to sell his matches, yet they continue to waste their most valuable props on him

[NoCalMike 0]

When Hogan was main eventing, the demand for him, for the most part was there. Right now in WWE, you put almost anyone in the main event for WM, the buyrate would change little, especially since WM is the one guarantee of the year.

[Styles 0]

He really didn't headline 19. 4th from the top with Hogan/Mcmahon, Austin/Rock and Angle/Lesnar all promoted as bigger matches.

 

Unless you want to start being like WWE recently and calling EVERY match at Mania the "Main Event". It's really been bugging me. Like the 6 way ladder match JR kept calling the "Main Event" and on Smackdown, Michael Cole insisting Kurt Angle is "Main Eventing" his 3rd straight Wrestlemania, when his match last year was 3rd from the top and will likely be again this year.

 

It's like, it used to be just BEING on WM was considered an honor, now it seems like everyone's match has to be called the "Main Event" to feel special, which is redudant because you can't have 4 or 5 main events (well, you could, but that dillutes the concept. Generally there is 1, the last match on the show, and in some cases 2 if a world title match comes in the middle of the show).

 

At least Paul London and Chavo will be in the main event of Wm...

[Precious Roy 0]

He really didn't headline 19. 4th from the top with Hogan/Mcmahon, Austin/Rock and Angle/Lesnar all promoted as bigger matches.

 

Unless you want to start being like WWE recently and calling EVERY match at Mania the "Main Event".

 

I consider a World Title match a headline match regardless of where they put it on the card. Lex/Yoko was a headliner and that ran like 2nd or 3rd at Mania X. Now that they have two world titles it's the same thing.

 

The term "Main-Event" should be reserved for the last match, but saying something is a headliner is different. At this point in time I would consider cross-promotional matches and world title matches headliners, nothing else.

[Some Guy 0]

HHH went fourth from the top at 19 because he was a heel and went over. Brock got the face title win to send the fans home happy. But neither were the true main event. That was Hogan/McMahon, they got the poster, they were the main event.

 

Hogan/Rock at 18 was the main event, Jericho/HHH was just the title match that went on last. If they had ended that show with Hogan/Rock and skipped the women's match and the title match, I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the Skydome wouldn't have realized that they didn't get 2 advertised matches.

 

To me the Main event is not necesarily the title match, it is what they promote to be the biggest match on the show, hence Hogan vs. Rock/McMahon. WM 8 had 2 equally promoted matches and as such had an abtly titled "double main event".

 

And Hogan did main event WM 4, he and Andre were the match that sold the show. Savage got the strap and the last match and got the "honor" of celebrating with Hogan.

[res37618 0]

HHH went fourth from the top at 19 because he was a heel and went over. Brock got the face title win to send the fans home happy. But neither were the true main event. That was Hogan/McMahon, they got the poster, they were the main event.

 

Hogan/Rock at 18 was the main event, Jericho/HHH was just the title match that went on last. If they had ended that show with Hogan/Rock and skipped the women's match and the title match, I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the Skydome wouldn't have realized that they didn't get 2 advertised matches.

 

To me the Main event is not necesarily the title match, it is what they promote to be the biggest match on the show, hence Hogan vs. Rock/McMahon. WM 8 had 2 equally promoted matches and as such had an abtly titled "double main event".

 

And Hogan did main event WM 4, he and Andre were the match that sold the show. Savage got the strap and the last match and got the "honor" of celebrating with Hogan.

I've always said that WM X-8 should've ended with Hogan/Rock. That would've ended the show on that "epic, unforgettable" note that WM is usually known for. HHH/Jericho was one of the most bland main events in WM history, save for UT/Sid or Bret/Yoko. The crowd was so drained by the time HHH and Y2J hit the ring at X-8 that it was hard to get a pop from them for anything. And it's not their faults, really. The match wasn't a five-star classic or anything, but it was decent enough and would've probably been better received as the co-main event right before Hogan/Rock.

 

The World Heavyweight Title main evented last year. Do they have JBL/Cena last this year, or is it HHH in the main event again? I honestly see Batista getting screwed at WM (with a rematch at Backlash, no DQ or something of the sort), and JBL/Cena possibly going on last with Cena going over to send the crowd home happy . . . er, yeah, happy.

 

Thoughts?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Might as well get used to it. Triple H will either be the champion or being challenging for the title at next years Mania and for several after that. It's funny how people say HBK and HHH put Benoit over when both are still headlining a show and Benoit is stuck in a meaningless mid-card match. I expect the same to happen to Batista.

 

Wrestlemania XXII HHH vs. HBK

 

The Mania thing really doesn't bother me that much. I'm more annoyed by the fact that we get PPVs full of sub 10 minute matches because HHH needs his 20-40 minute matches no matter who his opponent is.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

And Hogan did main event WM 4, he and Andre were the match that sold the show. Savage got the strap and the last match and got the "honor" of celebrating with Hogan.

 

The Tournament at IV was bigger than any individual match. Hogan/Andre was the most heavily hyped match because we didn't know anything else beyond the first round. The real main event was whatever the finals were going to be. Many people were hoping for Hogan/Savage, although I was in the Dibiase/Savage camp.

[Guest Trivia247]

And Hogan did main event WM 4, he and Andre were the match that sold the show. Savage got the strap and the last match and got the "honor" of celebrating with Hogan.

 

The Tournament at IV was bigger than any individual match. Hogan/Andre was the most heavily hyped match because we didn't know anything else beyond the first round. The real main event was whatever the finals were going to be. Many people were hoping for Hogan/Savage, although I was in the Dibiase/Savage camp.

I don't want to turn this into a old school thing. But if I remember correctly they were establishing Ted Dibasi as the top heel at the time with Andre sliding back into that henchmen mode. Savage was being pushed to the main event spot, but needed to both keep Hogan in the spotlight for some odd reason, but not crowd Savage in his title run. Up to the point Hogan came out during the Wm4 match I was expecting a good match from watching this so many years ago. It went down hill not totally in a bad way but sorta screwed up way. If that makes any sense. Instead of Savage being the top man, it was Hulk Hogan watching over his Little buddy World Champion Randy Savage.

 

Their match though in Wm5 very good in my opinion.

[Karc 0]

Well, if I had a gripe about Triple H, it's that he buries his WM opponents to the point where they don't matter, and thus, he either has an excuse for not jobbing to them, or not really worrying about jobbing to them because they're dead in the water anyway. Jericho in 2002 was made into a joke BEFORE the match, and back to the midcard right after. Booker in 2003 was a joke right after the match where everyone thought he'd win. Benoit was curtain-jerking six months after his win, and after Triple H tried unsuccessfully to book himself as Benoit's greatest rival. And it looks like the same for Batista. Where does he go from here? Fight Edge and not draw? Fight Benoit, Jericho, or any other six-foot midcarder who doesn't stand a chance? Fight everybody over 400 pounds as though the lowcarders are legitimate threats?

[Sass 0]

The burial of Booker T was atrocious and embarassing. HHH's pre-Mania mic spiels to Booker were so outdated and wrong.

[iggymcfly 0]

The burial of Booker T was an invention of the internet. HHH's pre-Mania mic spiels to Booker would have gotten anyone over that had just a little bit of acting talent.

Edited for accuracy.

[Sass 0]

Booker should have done a jig for HHH. Unfortunately, Booker was really just a dancing fool so HHH wasn't completely off base with his comments at the time.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The burial of Booker T was an invention of the internet.  HHH's pre-Mania mic spiels to Booker would have gotten anyone over that had just a little bit of acting talent.

Edited for accuracy.

Think you can elaborate on that , or are you just going with a lame gimmick answer instead ?

 

And Booker was buried, because the finish to his match at WM XIX made it clear Hunter was right, and established Booker as someone not to get behind.

[Sass 0]

I *still* don't get why Booker couldn't have feuded with a HHH/Nash/Flair/Jericho heel unit after Mania. Him, Goldust, RVD and Kane could have teamed up to wrestle those guys for months on PPV and RAW's. Booker actually did get a couple decent in-ring matches from Nash when they were in WCW together. HHH is a lesser worker compared to Booker when both guys break the WWE style formula and could have had a better RAW brawl than the heat sinker one HHH and Nash had in April.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I think the Rock is more responsible for burying Booker T than HHH is (HHH merely hammered the final nail in the coffin), but Booker T wasn't exactly setting the world on fire prior to his sudden rise to #1 contendership for HHH's title. He was, for the most part, viewed as a tag team guy (with Goldust, Test, DDP, whatever) in the WWE, and his last big-time singles feud prior to the Goldust stuff was vs Rock, who exposed him as a bumbling fool who couldn't get anything done even with the owner trying to help him out. Weakest Link didn't help either.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Same here, though it wasn't malaise about him constantly being wrestlemania's main focus, just main focus in general. hhh finally killed my wrestling "ooh i'm just still watching in hopes it gets better" addiction, havent seen a full show since mid-last year. Thanks HHH, for making sure I don't miss a second of "24" on Monday nights!!!!

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

HHH went fourth from the top at 19 because he was a heel and went over. Brock got the face title win to send the fans home happy. But neither were the true main event. That was Hogan/McMahon, they got the poster, they were the main event.

 

Hogan/Rock at 18 was the main event, Jericho/HHH was just the title match that went on last. If they had ended that show with Hogan/Rock and skipped the women's match and the title match, I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the Skydome wouldn't have realized that they didn't get 2 advertised matches.

 

To me the Main event is not necesarily the title match, it is what they promote to be the biggest match on the show, hence Hogan vs. Rock/McMahon. WM 8 had 2 equally promoted matches and as such had an abtly titled "double main event".

 

And Hogan did main event WM 4, he and Andre were the match that sold the show. Savage got the strap and the last match and got the "honor" of celebrating with Hogan.

That IS the definition of the main event.

 

I believe we have a whole thread about this "what constitutes a main event", but I still haven't heard a decent arguement for the side that says the last match is the main event.

 

I said this before, but as a kid I went to many shows where Hogan was the most hevaily promoted match, but he often went on in the 3rd or 4th, does that mean soemthing like Demolition vs the Bulldogs main evented over Hogan? Hardly.

 

To the point of this thread, Hunter has really only "main evented Wrestlemania 16. The other two times he went on last, there were other matches that far overshadowed his match and therefore meant Trips wan NOT in the main event.

 

That said, he is overexposed, I'll never argue that point.

[iggymcfly 0]

The burial of Booker T was an invention of the internet.  HHH's pre-Mania mic spiels to Booker would have gotten anyone over that had just a little bit of acting talent.

Edited for accuracy.

Think you can elaborate on that , or are you just going with a lame gimmick answer instead ?

 

And Booker was buried, because the finish to his match at WM XIX made it clear Hunter was right, and established Booker as someone not to get behind.

The only thing bad HHH did to Booker was wait so long to cover him after the pedigree.

 

The feud was actually fine, as HHH made some really incendiary comments that were designed to get Booker over, and could have easily put a lot of heat on the feud. However, when he was responding, he never showed any emotion whatsoever, and then when he attacked Ric Flair in the locker room, I remember thinking that it might have been the worst acted skit I'd ever seen in the WWE.

 

The fans still got behind Booker somewhat, but it was more like the heat Steiner got against HHH than anything approaching what Batista or Jericho or RVD or any really over face would have gotten. That's what ruined the feud, and that's what made the WWE decide for sure not to let Booker have any sort of run at the top.

 

The thing is that the previous PPV, Booker T didn't even make the card, so it's not like there was much for HHH to "bury" anyway. What happened is that HHH cut some great heel promos to get Booker over temporarily, but Booker did so bad in his role that the WWE was forced to just abort the push, and let Booker wriggle his way back into the midcard.

 

What really pisses me off, is when people say that the racial promos buried Booker. If anything, the #1 heel on the show saying that "your kind" don't deserve the title is going to launch your career forward. When Vince didn't want "Austin's kind" to have the title, did it bury him? How about when Rock thought that Foley wasn't worthy to be a champion. Yes, those two men both got the title, but that's because they used that angle to become incredibly over before they won the belt. Booker T had the hottest career jump starting angle in all of wrestling, and he completely blew it due to his own deficiencies.

[Guest Shadow]

There's a difference between McMahon telling Austin he doesn't want a "screw authority figures", no respect, fuck everything and everyone rebel to represent his company; Rock telling Foley that fat ugly insane freaks don't deserve the titles...

 

and Triple H making many racist comments and basically offending a entire demographic and much less the social and public stigma it would carry had anyone given a shit. What was worst was that Booker T never got a point in or a shot in or ANYTHING.

 

He was buried...into the ground.

 

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Guest Shadow]

There's a difference between McMahon telling Austin he doesn't want a "screw authority figures", no respect, fuck everything and everyone rebel to represent his company; Rock telling Foley that fat ugly insane freaks don't deserve the titles...

 

and Triple H making many racist comments and basically offending a entire demographic and much less the social and public stigma it would carry had anyone given a shit. What was worst was that Booker T never got a point in or a shot in or ANYTHING.

 

He was buried...into the ground.

 

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

That IS the definition of the main event.

 

I believe we have a whole thread about this "what constitutes a main event", but I still haven't heard a decent arguement for the side that says the last match is the main event.

 

I said this before, but as a kid I went to many shows where Hogan was the most hevaily promoted match, but he often went on in the 3rd or 4th, does that mean soemthing like Demolition vs the Bulldogs main evented over Hogan? Hardly.

 

To the point of this thread, Hunter has really only "main evented Wrestlemania 16. The other two times he went on last, there were other matches that far overshadowed his match and therefore meant Trips wan NOT in the main event.

 

That said, he is overexposed, I'll never argue that point.

 

What were they supposed to do? Advertise Savage/Dibiase ahead of time? Hogan/Andre was the most heavily advertised of the announced matches, and thus made the poster, but EVERYTHING aside from odd things like Honky, Demolition and the Matilda incident revolved around the tournament for weeks. What is the first thing Jesse & Gorilla talk about when IV goes on the air? The WWF Championship. Not Hogan/Andre.

 

EDIT: I should clarify. I do agree that the main event is not always the last match, such as with Wrestlemania XVIII with Hogan/Rock. I don't think Booker/HHH was the main event, as there was at least 3 (Brock/Angle, Rock/Austin, Vince/Hogan) and arguably 4 (HBK/Jericho) matches that were more heavily promoted than that one. I am just saying that Wrestlemania IV, specifically, is not a good example of the main event not going on last. You want the perfect example of a PPV where the main event didn't go on last, look no further than Survivor Series 1991.

[Slayer 0]

I don't so much hate HHH now as I am apathetic towards him... and any mild dislike I have for him isn't even for the typical smark reasoning of "glass ceiling", etc. Lately, as I've watched RAW with more regularity (albeit out of complete boredom and the need to have the TV on in the b/g while being on the comp or doing homework) I see where my problem stands, namely, his character is bland at best and horrible at worst.

 

With Hogan, you had either the ra-ra patriot face or the heel who wanted to destroy/assimilate WCW.

 

With Flair, you had the flambouyant playboy.

 

With HHH, you have a big musclehead with no real character who routinely spends 20 minute segments talking about how great he is.

 

"I'm so great! I'm among the greatest of all time! I can't believe how legendary I am! Don't even bother challenging me because I'm greater than you! I am great!"

 

This "character" that is unremarkable by itself is rendered even more unimpressive when it's practically shared by most of the men's roster. Also, to quote DrTom, if you have to talk about how great you are, you're not really that great.