The latest twist in the Schiavo case.......

[CanadianChris 0]

Terri Schiavo was never on life support? What the fuck is a feeding tube?

Not life support.

 

Life support has ALWAYS been defined as kidney dialysis, heart machine, lung respirator.

 

Not feeding tubes.

 

Using THAT logic, when I had to have oral surgery, I was on life support for a few days since I needed a feeding tube due to my mouth being unable to open.

-=Mike

This will get just as no-sold as my last post to refute this erroneous statement, but here goes:

 

The treatments of life support include:

 

 

Oxygen

 

 

Intravenous fluids with sugar and basic salts

 

 

Drugs to improve circulation and other body functions

 

 

Antibiotics

 

 

Transfusions

 

 

Surgery

 

 

Nutritional supplements by vein or stomach tube

 

 

Tubes in body cavities (chest or abdomen) to relieve fluid buildup

 

 

Dialysis

 

 

Pacemaker

 

 

Electrical defibrillation

 

 

Various machines to assist heart or lung function

 

 

Transplantation of organs or mechanical substitutes (artificial heart)

 

 

Sedation or even temporary paralysis to enable the patient to tolerate these procedures

 

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/...ife_support.jsp

[EricMM 0]

Hey Mike, if she is vegetative, and has no hope of ever being conscious ever again, should she be killed/allowed to die?

 

I mean they say she has no cerebral cortex, which is where one's personality and thoughts are anyways. That area is gone, replaced by fluid. If one part of your brain is gone, you can't walk anymore. If this part of your brain is gone, you cannot THINK anymore. If that's gone, why go on living?

 

What do you say, if they prove that that's the case?

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

And all this talk of "liberals...liberals...liberals" in regards to Terri, but you don't even acknowledge conservatives who opposed gov't intervention and who are ostensibly on Michael Schiavo's side.

Missed the whole discussion of the libertarian view in that post, eh?

 

It was in the first paragraph.

 

Try reading.

It is a consistent argument made by the Libertarians. I disagree, which is why I vote Republican and not Libertarian.

 

Then you have the liberals...(celebrating Terri's death)...

I did. Seemed to me like you moved on from Libertarians to liberals.

 

And Terri would have the same rights should her's & Michaels's situations be reversed.

And it would be EQUALLY wrong and EQUALLY barbaric for her to decide to kill him.

But if it is equal rights on each side, it shoots down the whole "removing a woman's indentity" routine. Either she has the same rights as he does, or not. You can't have it both ways.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I hate everyone who has been a part of this thread. That includes me.

[SuperJerk 0]

We hate you too, buddy.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Stop the pain!

[Guest MikeSC]

And all this talk of "liberals...liberals...liberals" in regards to Terri, but you don't even acknowledge conservatives who opposed gov't intervention and who are ostensibly on Michael Schiavo's side.

Missed the whole discussion of the libertarian view in that post, eh?

 

It was in the first paragraph.

 

Try reading.

It is a consistent argument made by the Libertarians. I disagree, which is why I vote Republican and not Libertarian.

 

Then you have the liberals...(celebrating Terri's death)...

I did. Seemed to me like you moved on from Libertarians to liberals.

Yes, I did. Which is why I said I understand the Libertarian argument, since their argument is, pretty much always, don't have the gov't involved in anything. I have no beef with Libertarians as their beliefs stay the same no matter what. I don't AGREE, but I don't have a beef.

 

The liberals, on the other hand, DON'T subscribe to that and openly contradicted much of what they have supported in the past to condemn her to death.

And Terri would have the same rights should her's & Michaels's situations be reversed.

And it would be EQUALLY wrong and EQUALLY barbaric for her to decide to kill him.

But if it is equal rights on each side, it shoots down the whole "removing a woman's indentity" routine. Either she has the same rights as he does, or not. You can't have it both ways.

NO spouse should have the ability to kill the other one. That denies the most basic human right to the spouse who is killed.

 

In THIS case, the feminists stayed on the sidelines, silent. They sold out what they claimed to be their firmly held beliefs SOLELY because they hate that "bible Thumpers" were on "their" side. They have long argued that a man should not own a woman --- and in this case, Michael clearly owns Terri as he has the capacity to have her killed.

-=Mike

[Vyce 0]

With Johnny Cochran dead, Jerry Falwell in critical condition, and Terri finally ready to move on, this is lining up to be a great week for death.

Falwell's about to kick it? Damn. I just saw him interviewed on the news programs as late as this weekend talking about Schiavo. Hope he's got a living will.

 

Oh, and c'mon, Jobber, Terry's only "moving on" because you liberals are MURDERING her....

[SuperJerk 0]

Man, I can't wait until after she's dead so everyone can see how stupid they're being about this.

 

Its just ONE woman, who hasn't had a coherent thought in over a decade.

 

How many soldiers have died in Iraq in the last month? I'd rather save my tears for THEM.

[Guest MikeSC]

Man, I can't wait until after she's dead so everyone can see how stupid they're being about this.

 

Its just ONE woman, who hasn't had a coherent thought in over a decade.

 

How many soldiers have died in Iraq in the last month? I'd rather save my tears for THEM.

A lot fewer than in the past.

 

Things are actually going better in Iraq.

 

And I'm sure it's a coincidence that press coverage has tapered off.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

Man, I can't wait until after she's dead so everyone can see how stupid they're being about this.

 

Its just ONE woman, who hasn't had a coherent thought in over a decade.

 

How many soldiers have died in Iraq in the last month?  I'd rather save my tears for THEM.

A lot fewer than in the past.

 

Things are actually going better in Iraq.

 

And I'm sure it's a coincidence that press coverage has tapered off.

-=Mike

Press reports what stories they think will get them the most ratings.

 

People care more about Shiavo than they care about Iraq right now, which is sad beyond belief.

[Guest MikeSC]

Man, I can't wait until after she's dead so everyone can see how stupid they're being about this.

 

Its just ONE woman, who hasn't had a coherent thought in over a decade.

 

How many soldiers have died in Iraq in the last month?  I'd rather save my tears for THEM.

A lot fewer than in the past.

 

Things are actually going better in Iraq.

 

And I'm sure it's a coincidence that press coverage has tapered off.

-=Mike

Press reports what stories they think will get them the most ratings.

 

People care more about Shiavo than they care about Iraq right now, which is sad beyond belief.

Makes sense --- because God knows their choices over the last, oh, 20 years haven't eroded their audience appreciably.

 

If you really think they are pursuing ratings over their own agenda, you're deluding yourself.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

If you really think they are pursuing ratings over their own agenda, you're deluding yourself.

In this case, I definitely think they are.

 

Sensationalism has become the media's bias of choice.

 

 

Its not jsut the media, though. This is the biggest thread in this folder, and that's WITHOUT pages-long arguments over the meaning of the word "clear" or gay sex skits.

[CBright7831 0]

Man, I can't wait until after she's dead so everyone can see how stupid they're being about this.

 

Its just ONE woman, who hasn't had a coherent thought in over a decade.

 

How many soldiers have died in Iraq in the last month?  I'd rather save my tears for THEM.

A lot fewer than in the past.

 

Things are actually going better in Iraq.

 

And I'm sure it's a coincidence that press coverage has tapered off.

-=Mike

I've noticed there hasn't been much press coverage for Bush lately either.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/2005/0...325others.shtml

 

For other families, protests outside Schiavo hospice add grief

an Associated Press report 03/25/05

 

PINELLAS PARK - Jennifer Johnson, barefoot and in her pajamas, ran to her grandfather's bedside once a hospice worker said his death was moments away.

 

She got there -- one minute too late.

 

Johnson said the chaos surrounding the hospice where Terri Schiavo lies dying kept her from saying goodbye. When Johnson arrived, a police officer demanded identification; she had none. And after a hospice employee cleared her, another officer halted her for a metal-detecting search.

 

The delays lasted three to four minutes -- the last minutes of her grandfather's life.

 

"It's a terrible, extra obstacle to put in front of a family. ... Everything is about Schiavo," Johnson said. "It's all about her and in my family's case, it cost us dearly."

 

Woodside Hospice has 70 patients, in addition to Schiavo, whose parents are desperately trying to have her feeding tube reconnected. Dozens of protesters have arrived from around the nation since the tube was removed March 18; at least 22 have been arrested, prompting a police barricade around the facility and unprecedented security measures.

 

Family members visiting patients must pass through a police checkpoint to park, then show identification outside the door before another security screening inside. They also must walk by scores of signs decrying Schiavo's "crucifixion," "torture," and "starvation," plus navigate around hordes of media who have been camped outside the facility.

 

(more)

[The Czech Republic 0]

"Crucifixion"?!? This shit can't possibly go any further

[NYU 0]

Sure. When she looked to the sky and screamed "WAAAAAAAAAAA", the protestors interpretated that as her asking "Why has my God forsaken me?"

 

This story really just needs to end. For everybody's sake.

[The Czech Republic 0]

There's only one solution, and we went over it back in late 2000: kick Florida out of the Union.

 

 

Too many Terri Schiavo YTMNDs are out there

[2GOLD 0]

There's only one solution, and we went over it back in late 2000: kick Florida out of the Union.

 

Add in their murdering population of little kids....yeah, I agree with you.

This story hasn't just spiraled out of control, it has turned into Godzilla and is eating common sense.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Stephen, there are two arguments for killing Schiavo. The one you seem to be advocating is the libertarian argument --- that the gov't should not be involved whatsoever in anything like this. And while I disagree, I can understand it. It is a consistent argument made by the Libertarians. I disagree, which is why I vote Republican and not Libertarian.

Okay. I now move you back from the slippery slope I thought you were on.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

We shouldn't kick Florida out of the union yet.

 

We should find a way to get back at the Florida towns of Starke (population 5563), Lawtey (population 656) and Waldo (population 821).

 

We should find a way to get a lot of good looking girls out of Florida before we kick it out of the Union. And we should consider the impact of such a decision on our Internet Porno industry.

[Guest MikeSC]

An interesting take on the Schiavo thing, from a radiologist:

 

CodeBlueBlog Issues $100,000 Challenge to Terri Schiavo Neurologist Experts

 

A Few Good Men

 

I'm getting tired of hearing what neurologists have to say about Terri Schiavo's CT of the brain. Real Tired. The Florida Sun Sentinel had a gang of neurologists analyze one of Terri's CT's of the brain. Here's what they said:

 

        About 70 percent to 90 percent of Schiavo's upper brain is gone, and there's also damage to her lower brain that controls instinctive functions such as breathing and swallowing, said three Florida neurologists who viewed 12 of her CT "computed tomography" X-ray scans Tuesday and Wednesday.

 

        "This is as severe brain damage as I've ever seen," said Dr. Leon Prockop, a professor and former chairman of neurology at the University of South Florida College of Medicine in Tampa, upon viewing the scans.

 

Then there's the infamous Dr. Ronald Cranford, who has the double-whammy credentials of neurologist AND bioethicist (have you had enough of bioethicists for a while? Why is it they all have the same opinion and they all start out their spiels by saying "this is a tragic case for everyone involved...") who also defined Terri's CT of the brain as  being as bad as he's seen.

 

So What Have You Seen?

 

I've watched a steady stream of neurologists, bioethicists, and neurologist/bioethicists from Columbia, Cornell, and NYU interviewed all week on Fox and CNN and MSNBC. They all said about the same thing, that Terri's CT scan was "the worst they'd ever seen"or "as bad as they've ever seen."

 

Here's the problem with these experts: THEY DON'T INTERPRET CT SCANS OF THE BRAIN. RADIOLOGISTS DO.

 

                        *Oh*

 

You see, a neurologist will look at the CT of the brain of one of his patients, but this is entirely different from interpreting CT's of the brain de novo, for a living, every day, without knowing the diagnosis and most times without a good history. In addition, whereas I heard Dr. Crandon say he's "seen" a thousand brain CT's... well I've interpreted over 10,000 brain CT's. There's a big difference.

 

When I look at a CT of the brain every case is a new mystery about a patient Idon't know. I must look at the images, come to a conclusion, dictate my findings and report a conclusion. This becomes a part of the official legal record for which I am liable. I bill Medicare for a CT interpretation and am paid for this service.

 

Neurologists do not do this. They don't go on the record, alone, in written legal documents stating their impressions about CT's of the brain. The neurologist doesn't get sued for making a mistake on an opinion of a CT of the brain THE RADIOLOGIST DOES.

 

A neurologist has no where near this type of practical experience. And their cases are skewed according to where they practice and what their specialty is. Now, some of my best friends and some of the smartest docs I eve4r met are neurologists, but that doesn't change my observation that most neurologists I've met, in my experience, show an incomplete grasp of the nuances involved in image interpretation.

 

I have seen several neurologists -- in the printed media and on television -- put up a Representative CT of the brain of a normal 25 year old female and contrast this with Terri Schiavo's CT. This is a totally spurious comparison. No one is disputing that Terri Schiavo does not have the CT of a 25 year old female.

 

What I'm saying is that Terri Schiavo's CT could be the brain of an eighty or ninety year old person who is not in a vegetative state. THOSE are the CT scans we should be showing next to Schiavo's, because in THAT case you would see similar atrophy and a brain much closer to Schiavo's.

 

Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?

 

To prove my point I am offering $100,000 on a $25,000 wager for ANY neurologist (and $125,000 for any neurologist/bioethicist) involved in Terri Schiavo's case--including all the neurologists reviewed on television and in the newspapers who can accurately single out PVS patients from functioning patients with better than 60% accuracy on CT scans.

 

I will provide 100 single cuts from 100 different patient's brain CT's. All the neurologist has to do is say which ones represent patients with PVS and which do not.

 

If the neurologist can be right 6 out of 10 times he wins the $100,000.

 

I Said What I Meant, And I Meant What I Said

 

My points are what I first said about the image from Terri Schiavo's CT scan:

 

1) It is NOT as bad as the neurologists and bioethicists play it up to be; and,

 

2) There are many elderly patients with various levels of mental functioning who have severe atrophy that is difficult to distinguish from Terri Schiavo's atrophy

 

I stand by what I said. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codeblueblog...lueblog_is.html

Think any of the "experts" on TV would consider taking him up?

-=Mike

[Stephen Joseph 0]

The time has come to let Terri Schiavo die with dignity - and in peace.

 

 

The battle over her fate was mostly a noble one, and always a heart-rending one, but it has turned into a circus.

 

 

Nothing anyone can do will alter the outcome now. The arrests will make no difference; yesterday's high-profile arrival of the Rev. Jesse Jackson's stretch limousine will change nothing; Randall Terry's publicity-mongering is pointless.

 

 

 

 

The best of America - two sides fighting hard for their beliefs, using the law, not violence - is about to be overtaken by the worst of America; showboating, paranoia, lawlessness.

 

 

Enough. It's over. Let her die in peace. Terri Schiavo's parents have fought the good fight, and they have lost.

 

 

Terri Schaivo's legion of supporters - personal and political, honorable and otherwise - have made their point, again and again. They, too, have lost.

 

 

Congress, to its discredit, added endgame drama to the debate. So did President Bush; it was not his finest hour.

 

It was always the courts — state and federal — that should have had the final word in this dramatic tragedy.

 

And the courts have spoken — in Florida and at the federal level — on the merits of the case, and on the law.

 

It is time for the lawyers and lawmakers to go away. It is time for Terri's family to mourn — and to fight — in private. After all, that's what the American people want.

 

A CBS poll last week showed that 82 percent of Americans felt that Congress never should have been involved. Seventy-five percent said end-of-life decisions should not be made by the government.

 

How ironic that the people fighting on the extremes of both sides brought about a consensus in the middle.

 

And thus does Terri Schiavo slip away in a Florida hospice — the end no more than days, perhaps mere hours, away.

 

There are 71 patients at Woodside Hospice, including Terri Schiavo. And there are countless thousands around the country making painfully difficult life-and-death decisions.

 

They all deserve peace in their final hours — they all deserve respect.

 

The macabre circus that has put Pinellas County, Fla., on the global map is no longer about Terry Schiavo. It is about a revolution in the medical arts that has eroded all the old certainties about life, and about death.

 

This debate will continue long after one tragically afflicted young woman has passed, as it should.

 

Now, again, it is time to step back and let Terri Schiavo die.

 

She deserves at least that much.

 

God rest her soul.

 

--http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/43506.htm

 

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

[NoCalMike 0]

It has been awhile since I have tuned in to Michael Savage's radio show, but I figured, why not hear this guy's opinion on the Schiavo case. Wow, he is flying off the handle. He basically is calling for the end of Jeb and George Bush for not breaking the law and intervening. I love when he goes into his psychotic rants and just starts blathering incoherently.

[2GOLD 0]

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

 

That is just god damn disgusting.

You know what? Let the stupid right for life people take her if they want her so bad. Maybe they'll dress her up and parade her out on TBN.

[Guest MikeSC]

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

 

That is just god damn disgusting.

You know what? Let the stupid right for life people take her if they want her so bad. Maybe they'll dress her up and parade her out on TBN.

Ah, so this is ALL the pro-lifers fault?

 

Got it.

 

Not Michael's fault. No sir. Not the courts fault. Nope.

 

It's those damned evil pro-lifers who only think that a woman should NOT BE STARVED AND DEHYDRATED to death.

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

 

That is just god damn disgusting.

You know what? Let the stupid right for life people take her if they want her so bad. Maybe they'll dress her up and parade her out on TBN.

The thing is, if one of them actually made it to Terry and poured water down her throat, she would die instantly.

[Guest MikeSC]

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

 

That is just god damn disgusting.

You know what? Let the stupid right for life people take her if they want her so bad. Maybe they'll dress her up and parade her out on TBN.

The thing is, if one of them actually made it to Terry and poured water down her throat, she would die instantly.

And you know this...how?

-=Mike

[NoCalMike 0]

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

 

That is just god damn disgusting.

You know what? Let the stupid right for life people take her if they want her so bad. Maybe they'll dress her up and parade her out on TBN.

The thing is, if one of them actually made it to Terry and poured water down her throat, she would die instantly.

And you know this...how?

-=Mike

She can't swallow.........

[Guest MikeSC]

I believe today a patient at the hospice died, and because of all the coverage, security, and protestors, his next of kin could not make it be with him as he passed. THAT is shameful.

 

That is just god damn disgusting.

You know what? Let the stupid right for life people take her if they want her so bad. Maybe they'll dress her up and parade her out on TBN.

The thing is, if one of them actually made it to Terry and poured water down her throat, she would die instantly.

And you know this...how?

-=Mike

She can't swallow.........

And, again, you know this...how?

 

Nobody has been ALLOWED by Schiavo to try for years.

-=Mike