This week in the NBA

[Guest Vitamin X]

It's hard to fathom the Raptors or Bucks nowadays being championship contenders at that point.

 

Then again, it IS the Eastern Conference..

[The Czech Republic 0]

The Bulls are seeded 6th, half a game back of the Cavaliers, last I checked. Who saw THAT coming>

[Guest Vitamin X]

The hell happened to the Bulls? Weren't they supposed to be the #3-4 team in the East behind Miami, Detroit, and possibly Cleveland?

 

EDIT: Ah, it's those crafty Celtics and Wizards at the number 3 and 4 spots.

[The Czech Republic 0]

They were never THAT good, because of their abysmal start in November. Washington was always ahead of them, and I don't think they ever got to the 5th seed. They did have that ugly losing streak a few days ago but they beat Philadelphia and Atlanta in the last two games so maybe that should build some momentum to close out the season?

[smh810 0]

I won't even dignify the rest of your post with a response, since you're going beyond the limits of an intelligent discussion into vehement Kobe-bashing without any evidence other than "OMG HE'S AN EGOTISTICAL BITCH" (and no, Phil Jackson and Shaq's comments don't count since we know where their feelings lie.. and even then, Jackson still might come back to coach the Lakers. If he was really that spiteful of Kobe, it wouldn't be a possibility) as if you'd know because you've hung out or met the guy before or something. If you're going to say something that has any actual meaning behind it, go ahead and I'll gladly debate it with you. But if this is just going to continue into degenerating into a thread-long "KOBE SUX" deal, I can't take you seriously enough to respond.

 

Okay you wanted a serious reply, here's a serious reply. I dont think a tandem of Bryant and Odom is better than the Wallace Bros. or the trio in Phoenix. Odom is only a decent player and Bryant while very good needs help to carry his team to a title. Keep in mind here I'm not talking about just making the playoffs, I'm talking titles and it will take a lot more than Kobe and Lamar to get the Lakers back into the promised land. Ben is a great defensive player while Rasheed is great on both ends of the floor. Nash is a difference maker, Marion is very solid all-around and Amare is borderline dominant. As far as Phil Jackson goes in my opibnion based on the stuff he's said about Kobe in his book and elsewhere it would be extremely hyporcitical for him to come back. I dont know Kobe and you dont know him either. All I know is this for five years the Lakers went to 4 NBA Finals, winning three. Shaq, Kobe and Phil were the main triumvirate in that run. Shaq and Phil are gone and Kobe is still there and while he is still putting up the numbers what good are stats if you dont make the playoffs this year or win the title in the coming years?

[Sass 0]

Why, thank you Captain Obvious.

 

Of course a Kobe Bryant and Lamar Odom tandem isn't going to be good enough to carry the Lakers into the playoffs. Not when the other 3 guys playing with those two put up a combined 10 - 15 points a night while the other guys score 30 and 18 respectively. They need *help* and all the high stats in the world aren't going to help Kobe *and* his *team* if they don't make it into playoffs. Look at the 76ers for the past couple of seasons. AI should league MVP every year for the way he has carried that team on his back. As far as I'm concerned he's the fuckin main man in the NBA and it's a damn shame he doesn't have another 20 + PPG game guy on his team because the Sixers would be going places if he had that kind of help.

 

Kobe Bryant and Lamar Odom are *maybe* like the 4th or 5th best tandem in the West. Maybe. The Suns, the Sonics, the Rockets, and even the Clippers have tandem's on their team that have nights where they just out score and out rebound the KB/LO tandem. Maggette and Simmons have got something going on with the Clips and add a healthy Elton Brand to the mix and it's a damn head shame that the Clips aren't in the 8th or 7th seed in the Western playoffs. This season should have been a winner for them. They're a really good team and if Kobe had switched LA teams and joined up with the Clippers when he offered them a deal then they'd be like 4th or 5th in the West at least. The Clips have got a *better* and *stronger* nucleus of starting players on their team then the Lakers have. Chris Mihm and Kaman are interchangable at C but the Clips have the better team and it's why they've managed to pound on the Lakers this season.

 

Kobe Bryant on the Clippers this season would be *sick* and I'd say it's about time the Clippers fans have something to cheer about. Any championship won by an LA team, whether it's the Lakers or the Clippers, is cool with me. That's one of the reasons why I was happy for the Angels when they won their first World Series. It was about time Angel fans had something to cheer about after all the losing seasons and heart breaking post season appearances.

 

I liked Shaq. But when he got into shape after leaving the Lakers and making demands for a contract extension before, that's when I lost all the respect I had for him as a person. He was a *huge* contributor to the community in LA and he seemed like a stand up guy. The guy never got into any trouble with the law around here and he looked like he was having fun whenever he dressed up as Santa Shaq.

 

Shaq was good people but *way* too insecure about himself. His antics were sometimes just flat out juvenile, especially when he would slag Phil Jackson for daring to ask him to improve his subpar free throw shot. Shaq making at least 2/3's of his free throws could have turned the tide for a lot of games where the team only lost by a handful of points that could have been made up by Shaq's free throws. I never cared for the way Shaq stuck his nose up in the air about that deal and it's why I thought Shaq maybe was a two-faced guy after singing Phil's praises, post Lakers, after the verbal spats they had about Shaq's diminishing playing ability. Two-faced indeed. Speaking of...

 

On the otherhand, Kobe Bryant has what appears to be a *very* questionable character. Kobe Bryant the player is cool with me. Kobe Bryant the person on the otherhand sounds like a spoiled prima donna along with a questionable character who got charged with raping a girl. That mess is always going to haunt him until the day he dies. It's a shame the case never had a final verdict because that did no one involved any favors.

[smh810 0]

The point that I was making was that VX seemed to think a tandem of Bryant and Odom with good coaching could eventually take them far and they simply cant. They need A LOT of help on that team to get back to the top of the conference. I mean CHRIS MIHM is your starting Center for crissakes. As far as Shaq goes I never said he was the most coachable in the league, he's a pain in the ass but I do think its petty to complain about him when he did so much for the Laker Organization and was always there in big games.

[Sass 0]

Shaq acted like an ass. Kobe acted like an ass. Win or lose, they acted like ass's and no matter how many championships they helped the team win, that does not give them a free ride for acting like jerks. If it was off-court stuff, that's their business. But when Shaq makes less than 50% of his free throws in a game and the team loses by 3 whole points, then that is enough reason for concern from the front office and fans like myself.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

Magic Johnson helped the Lakers win 5 championships but after he came out and admitted he cheated on his wife Cookie and contracted AIDS in the process, I thought he was a slimey guy from that day on. That's the opinion I still hold about him today. He has done a *ton* of stuff for community's but he still cheated on his wife and left the Lakers in a tough spot after it looked as though he had another 10 years left in him. His off-court shennanagins disrupted the Lakers on-court activities and they did not recover until they, ironically, picked up Shaq from the Orlando Magic and got Phil Jackson to come out of retirement.

 

You make it sound as if fans should exonerate players for their dickweed actions if they help a team win a couple championships. That should *never* be allowed to pass because if a player thinks that their fans will turn a blind eye to their one or two fuck-ups then the "I play SPORTS, do you know who I am?" mentality sets in and that's when little headaches can become big headaches in the future. Why should they stop? This is why I wouldn't be surprised to hear, if it's true, that Magic Johnson continues to cheat on Cookie because many Laker fans were all "awwww, we still love you for coming clean Magic."

 

That's some bullshit right there I'll say.

[alfdogg 0]

Dermarr Johnson is looking good in highlights against Washington. It'd be a great story to see him catch on as a go-to-guy or second option somewhere after the broken neck, unfortunately he's stuck in Denver right now. I have to wonder what if Phoenix didn't let him walk in training camp last year.

 

Pacers are about to lose to the Nets for the second time in a week. Watching Vince Carter in this game makes it obvious he was being a big baby about getting a trade and dogging it on the court.

[bob_barron 0]

Can't say I'm going to complain about that

[alfdogg 0]

Nice to know that a 7-point lead with 23 seconds left still doesn't prevent Carter from crying like a bitch about his 6th foul.

[bob_barron 0]

Nice to know that a 7-point lead with 23 seconds left still doesn't prevent Carter from crying like a bitch about his 6th foul.

He was probably just frustrated about getting DQed. The game was far from over- so of course he's going to be a bit upset.

[The Electrifyer 0]

Anyone see what George Karl was wearing for the Denver game? Him wearing the Denver throwback remind me of the thread here discussing whether coaches should wear attire that had to do more with the team or not. I thought he looked alright in it, but still should stick with the suits.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Heh heh.

 

Oh man I wish Rudy T. would have gotten fired or something before Karl signed with the Nuggets. They've had a hell of a turnaround.

 

Sass pretty much summed up all my feelings on the matter, although for one reason or another I'm much more rabidly pro-Laker than pro-Clipper any day. But, I'd be happy with them winning a championship. Hell would be a very nice place to go snowboarding when that happens.

[MrRant 0]

Wade blew the game for them by clanking that first free throw.

[smh810 0]

. If it was off-court stuff, that's their business. But when Shaq makes less than 50% of his free throws in a game and the team loses by 3 whole points, then that is enough reason for concern from the front office and fans like myself.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

Magic Johnson helped the Lakers win 5 championships but after he came out and admitted he cheated on his wife Cookie and contracted AIDS in the process, I thought he was a slimey guy from that day on. That's the opinion I still hold about him today. He has done a *ton* of stuff for community's but he still cheated on his wife and left the Lakers in a tough spot after it looked as though he had another 10 years left in him. His off-court shennanagins disrupted the Lakers on-court activities and they did not recover until they, ironically, picked up Shaq from the Orlando Magic and got Phil Jackson to come out of retirement.

 

You make it sound as if fans should exonerate players for their dickweed actions if they help a team win a couple championships. That should *never* be allowed to pass because if a player thinks that their fans will turn a blind eye to their one or two fuck-ups then the "I play SPORTS, do you know who I am?" mentality sets in and that's when little headaches can become big headaches in the future. Why should they stop? This is why I wouldn't be surprised to hear, if it's true, that Magic Johnson continues to cheat on Cookie because many Laker fans were all "awwww, we still love you for coming clean Magic."

 

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!!!!!!!! How is Shaq occasionally getting fat and missing free throws even in the same ball park as Magic being an irresponsible jackass and getting HIV??? While I disagree with you even in Magic's case (you even say what happens off the court is their buisness) Are you saying their equal slime cause Shaq was in shape for Miami training camp? That is incredibly ludicrous. What buisness is it of yours anyway? Did Magic somehow ruin your childhood when he got AIDS and you found out he was a flawed individual? On the court the lakers werent that bad I mean they had a couple of off years until Del Harris ledthem back to respectability in 94. Back to the larger point at hand though instead of being on a high horse and demanding athletes have a high moral code be more appreciative of the good times they give you a sports fan. You dont have to like them as people you should like them as players moreso than you do.

[Precious Roy 0]

Dermarr Johnson is looking good in highlights against Washington. It'd be a great story to see him catch on as a go-to-guy or second option somewhere after the broken neck, unfortunately he's stuck in Denver right now.

 

I'd say he's pretty fortunate to be in Denver, it's the perfect situation for him.

[Sass 0]

. If it was off-court stuff, that's their business. But when Shaq makes less than 50% of his free throws in a game and the team loses by 3 whole points, then that is enough reason for concern from the front office and fans like myself.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

Magic Johnson helped the Lakers win 5 championships but after he came out and admitted he cheated on his wife Cookie and contracted AIDS in the process, I thought he was a slimey guy from that day on. That's the opinion I still hold about him today. He has done a *ton* of stuff for community's but he still cheated on his wife and left the Lakers in a tough spot after it looked as though he had another 10 years left in him. His off-court shennanagins disrupted the Lakers on-court activities and they did not recover until they, ironically, picked up Shaq from the Orlando Magic and got Phil Jackson to come out of retirement.

 

You make it sound as if fans should exonerate players for their dickweed actions if they help a team win a couple championships. That should *never* be allowed to pass because if a player thinks that their fans will turn a blind eye to their one or two fuck-ups then the "I play SPORTS, do you know who I am?" mentality sets in and that's when little headaches can become big headaches in the future. Why should they stop? This is why I wouldn't be surprised to hear, if it's true, that Magic Johnson continues to cheat on Cookie because many Laker fans were all "awwww, we still love you for coming clean Magic."

 

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!!!!!!!! How is Shaq occasionally getting fat and missing free throws even in the same ball park as Magic being an irresponsible jackass and getting HIV??? While I disagree with you even in Magic's case (you even say what happens off the court is their buisness) Are you saying their equal slime cause Shaq was in shape for Miami training camp? That is incredibly ludicrous. What buisness is it of yours anyway? Did Magic somehow ruin your childhood when he got AIDS and you found out he was a flawed individual? On the court the lakers werent that bad I mean they had a couple of off years until Del Harris ledthem back to respectability in 94. Back to the larger point at hand though instead of being on a high horse and demanding athletes have a high moral code be more appreciative of the good times they give you a sports fan. You dont have to like them as people you should like them as players moreso than you do.

...

 

Right.

 

Okay, I see that this is becoming complicated for you to understand.

 

When I brought up Magic Johnson, I was responding to your asinine comment here, not comparing him to Shaq:

 

As far as Shaq goes I never said he was the most coachable in the league, he's a pain in the ass but I do think its petty to complain about him when he did so much for the Laker Organization and was always there in big games.

 

Emphasized asinine point in bold. Sorry, I guess I'm just pointing out the obvious here.

 

Unless I read this wrong, you are saying fans should exonerate players for their mistakes or problems if they win a lot of games. Check.

 

But not entirely.

 

Magic was the big force on the Lakers. But he was forced to leave the team because his off-court shenanigans finally caught up to him and it left the Lakers in a bad spot.

 

It *is* none of my business to know about the questionable off-court activities of players. It was none of my business when the Magic scandal initially broke. I could not care if Kobe Bryant slept around on his wife. Same deal with Magic. That's their business. But when Kobe is charged with rape and facing possible jail time, that could have a potentially negative and *harmful* effect on his teammates and the fans that adore him as a player. Like me. I'm a fan and it's none of my business to know who's cheating on their wife in the NBA. But if the dude does get caught red handed and goes through divorce court hell and his game drops off the next season, then it becomes my business as a fan to know and *understand* why this nonsense is messing up the dude's game.

 

Yeah, I'm really on my high horse here.

 

Kobe can fuck around all he wants to because as long as he comes to work and does his job well then everything is cool. But if that shit comes back to bite him in the ass and it causes his game to suffer, then I'm going to have a problem with him.

 

This last point you made also goes back to the, what I assume, was the asinine line I quoted above from an earlier post:

 

You dont have to like them as people you should like them as players moreso than you do.

 

Again, THANK YOU Captain Obvious.

 

No shit Sherlock.

 

I have all of the respect in the world for Kobe as a player because he busts his *ass* to improve his game.

 

Did you know he never took the summer off like everyone else did after the Lakers won their championships?

 

He took a week off after every time the Lakers won a championship and by the next week he was in the gym playing ball. By himself. No one else was there. Everyone else was still enjoying their leisure time off and rightfully so. But Kobe, he got back onto the court and worked on everything in his game that he thought could see some room for improvement. It's why Kobe isn't going to regress as a player anytime soon. If anything, he's only going to get better as the years go on. It's why Dr. Buss took a chance with Kobe over Shaq. Kobe tries to improve while Shaq was content with the way he was and it's why he never did try to improve on his weight issues. He didn't see it or else he didn't care. It's one or the other. For *that* tidbit, I will never ever call Kobe a slacker. If anything, he's an overachiever who wants to win.

 

I still, still, still, can't believe how dense you are though. Shaq's weight issues aren't even in the same galaxy as Magic's infidelity and HIV problems. Not even by a damn *sight* are they close. I mean, wow.

[Guest]

I agree, Magic left the team for shit, there was no Caron Butler or Lamar Odom, it was nothing. Shaq and Magic are totally uncomparable situations.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well done, Sass. Seriously, I think it's ridiculous when people say Kobe doesn't want to win; EVERY professional athlete wants to win, you have to be competitive to get to that level to begin with.

 

He leads the Lakers in both points scored AND assists per game. The problem on the Lakers isn't Kobe or Odom, it's the rest of the team and the coaching staff. Which is the point I made originally in this thread. Atkins is a good role player and has done better as the season has gone on, while Mihm is too weak to play inside, but is solid. I'm still wishing they would have kept Fisher over Medvedenko, and got stronger in the PF position. Brian Grant doesn't cut it, and Brian Cook's relegated to just sitting back and shooting 3's. Maybe daddy can teach Luke Walton how to bang around inside a bit and play PF? I don't know. They desperately need an upgrade there and at the PG position, and, if possible, a stronger center.

 

Remember folks, this is probably going to be only the 2nd time in the past 29 years that the Lakers won't make the playoffs. I say these guys know what they're doing (although a lot of that credit goes to Jerry West who's reviving the Grizzlies at this point).

[Sass 0]

The Lakers were unable to re-sign Derek Fisher because the money they would have used to sign him went to Gary Payton who resigned with the team for a second year when he was (supposed to be anyways) with the team for one season. Had the Lakers traded GP sooner, Fish would still be around. The deal was an automatic $5 + mil that would have been enough to keep Fisher around. But instead, he signed with the Warriors for a ridiculous amount, like $36 mil for like 4 years or something.

 

The team had no choice. Mitch Kupchak, who got supposedly cussed out after a game or two by GP, would have probably pulled the trigger on a GP dismissal in a heartbeat.

 

I *really* wish Fish was still with the Lakers too VX. He'd be a welcomed improvement over Atkins who is just too inconsistent as a gunner.

[Precious Roy 0]

Atkins is shooting .432 this season compared to .397 from Fisher. Fisher shot a HORRIBLE .352 last season.

 

And BTW, before you call Atkins an "inconsistent gunner," realize that Fisher is a career sub .40% shooter. Atkins is a better shooter.

 

Why anyone would want Fisher over Atkins is beyond me.

[Sass 0]

They're each interchangeable. I'm just being a homer about Fish. Chucky's a good guard who I hope becomes a stronger force with the Lakers next season. Kobe can't do everything by himself.

[MrRant 0]

He certainly tries to.

 

Personally I think he has the wrong type of competitiveness. To have to FORCE yourself to pass the ball means he isn't a team player in my eyes.

[Guest Vitamin X]

You know, there are FAR worse ballhogs than Kobe. From what I've seen this season, he's spread the ball around a lot more, but of course when the offense flows through you and Odom isn't always open inside, he's gonna take a lot of shots. He's leading the Lakers in both PPG AND APG this season. You could even tell from the All-Star game he wasn't really trying to steal the show on offense like Vince Carter and McGrady were. Now THERE'S a ballhog.

[MrRant 0]

OMG. He didn't try and steal the show in the ALL STAR game. Well then... shut my mouth.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

You could even tell from the All-Star game he wasn't really trying to steal the show on offense like Vince Carter and McGrady were. Now THERE'S a ballhog.

Tracy McGrady - 5.9 Assists per game

Kobe Bryant - 6.1 Assists per game

 

Yeah I can see how McGrady's such a huge ballhog compared to Kobe. And by the way, you say Kobe shares the ball a lot more than stats show because the offense goes through him. Next time you see a Rockets game, see how often Tracy gets the ball. Unless they're playing a total donut of a team, Yao is the 2nd option behind Tracy.

[alfdogg 0]

Plus, that is an extremely overrated stat. Just because you average so many assists doesn't necessarily make you more of a team player. For all we know, you could only be passing the ball those six times per game. Steve Francis averages more assists than Doug Christie does, but which one would you rather have as a teammate?

[Guest Vitamin X]

OMG. He didn't try and steal the show in the ALL STAR game. Well then... shut my mouth.

All sarcasm aside, it's true. What better way to placate one's ego than showing up the supposed best of the best?

 

Yeah I can see how McGrady's such a huge ballhog compared to Kobe. And by the way, you say Kobe shares the ball a lot more than stats show because the offense goes through him. Next time you see a Rockets game, see how often Tracy gets the ball. Unless they're playing a total donut of a team, Yao is the 2nd option behind Tracy.

But even when that's not the case, McGrady takes bad shots when he has another viable option. The Rockets have a better team around T-Mac and Yao than the Lakers do around Odom and Bryant at this point in the season, it's rather evident. Depth has been the Lakers' problem dating back to last year.

 

Plus, that is an extremely overrated stat. Just because you average so many assists doesn't necessarily make you more of a team player. For all we know, you could only be passing the ball those six times per game. Steve Francis averages more assists than Doug Christie does, but which one would you rather have as a teammate?

Then let's see a stat that would show it.

[Ripper 0]

I think that Kobe Bryant is the problem. You can't say that the bench and Caron and all those guys just aren't getting it done when they were obviously getting it done with Odom as the center of the offense. Kobe is has more assist, but Odem is the better team player. He is the better playmaker. You saw his numbers jump and the rest of the players numbers jump when bryant went down AND you saw a smoother running offense. Kobe passes when a player is completely open or he is triple teamed(sometimes) and thats about it. Being a playmaker is seeing the pass after your pass. Realizing that the offense has come to a stand still and getting it moving again. If they give Odem the ball 90% of the time and run the offense through him, the Lakers will win more, the role players will play their role, and they will win more. Bryant will have a dip in numbers all around(although his field goal percentage would probably jump). Its all if he is willing to do it.

 

Kobe is the problem here. Not saying he is a bad player, just saying that his presence in the offense as it is will hurt the lakers in the present and future.