I need an RPG........

[AndrewTS 0]

OSIcon: That pretty much sums up why I had enjoyed FF6 so much. WoR I liked a lot, because of the vast amount of freedom to complete all the various sidequests in any order you wanted.

 

The only thing I disliked about the setup was that there were a few items you couldn't get in the WoR, but that's a minor quibble.

 

I immensely enjoyed playing it waaay back then without any hint books, guides, or anything--then playing it later and using the 'net to track down nearly every hidden thing.

 

Chrono Trigger's similar approach was also a very enjoyable part of it to me.

 

Final Fantasy VII, when taken with knowing everything and excusing the horrid translation process is a fairly good game. Its considered one of the top 3 of the Final Fantasys simply because it brought the genre full blown mainstream.

 

When you compare it to most of the 16-bit RPGs that came before it, the translation isn't too bad. But the praise for it is so blind that many of its fans are the direct cause of many other people responding in kind with venomous hatred.

 

For me, I find that it suffers from much of the gameplay being a dumbed-down rehash of the previous games, the aforementioned translation (although it isn't as bad as most of the 16-bit RPGs), the "meh" materia system, and bizaarely having fewer characters who are simultaneously a hell of a lot less interesting than their ancestors.

 

Theoretically--if FFVII were retrofitted as an SNES game (and you could do so with no gameplay sacrifices whatsover, although the graphics and sound would suffer), or if FFVI were remade with FFVII's production values--which would be the better game?

 

Geezus Andrew, we were just making a joke about the last time you went on a rant. Lighten up. No baiting or anything, just having some fun.

 

I know--but Damu isn't a guy I can easily picture saying something jokingly.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Suikoden III is probably the worst of the entire series and should burn in hell for being such a brutally designed (gameplay wise) game.

 

Why the Suikoden III hate, Flik? I found it to be rather average. It was certainly nowhere near as good as the original or Suikoden II, but I wouldn't call it horrible or anything. Just curious...

Music: Non-existant during the game. Sure, they did it to make it like a Japanese movie, but it was really bad and just made the game feel awfully empty. I'm going through an area and I'd seriously have to put some type of music on because the lack of music drove me up the wall. And even when there was music it was quite mediocre compared to the old Suikodens.

 

Gameplay: Stupid magic nearly kills me all the time to the point that I avoided it. The battle system with its "buddy-assistance" leaves something to be desired as you could only work with 3 characters a round and left you open quite often to getting smacked around like a little bitch.

 

Story: One of the heroes of the game "Flame Champion" (ie: Guy who ends up amounting to NOTHING) doesn't show up till you nearly complete the game and by then is replaced by someone else. I didn't care for having him pimped up to be something for this game (which is what was the MO for the guy) and nothing happens for him.

 

Lack of Oldness: No Lightning Flik (my namesake) or Viktor hurt this game as well (Star Dragon Sword anyone?!). Hell, practically no one that I knew from the old game showed up (if they did, God help me if I could find them). That alone drove me up the wall. I mean, you've got many loose ends from the last two games that don't get resolved in this one that should've been at least ALLUDED TO. Maybe I just never found them. What was the point of the bringing in old data when it did practically nothing?

 

Final Fantasy VII, when taken with knowing everything and excusing the horrid translation process is a fairly good game. Its considered one of the top 3 of the Final Fantasys simply because it brought the genre full blown mainstream.

 

When you compare it to most of the 16-bit RPGs that came before it, the translation isn't too bad. But the praise for it is so blind that many of its fans are the direct cause of many other people responding in kind with venomous hatred.

 

Yup. Nice call there.

 

For me, I find that it suffers from much of the gameplay being a dumbed-down rehash of the previous games, the aforementioned translation (although it isn't as bad as most of the 16-bit RPGs), the "meh" materia system, and bizaarely having fewer characters who are simultaneously a hell of a lot less interesting than their ancestors.

 

That's pretty much why I'll never call it Top 3 of Final Fantasy Series.

 

Theoretically--if FFVII were retrofitted as an SNES game (and you could do so with no gameplay sacrifices whatsover, although the graphics and sound would suffer), or if FFVI were remade with FFVII's production values--which would be the better game?

 

That's unfair to compare really. Because Final Fantasy VI had a good script because it had graphical limitations on it. To switch the two around might cause the same effect just reverse the problem. We'd probably get a really bad translation and script for Final Fantasy VI, but get an awesome one for Final Fantasy VII.

 

That's why I never compare the games in such a fashion. Hell, one could make a case that if Final Fantasy IV got the upgrade it could be the best of the Final Fantasy series.

 

BTW: My Top 3 In Order - IV, VI, IX.

 

Geezus Andrew, we were just making a joke about the last time you went on a rant. Lighten up. No baiting or anything, just having some fun.

 

I know--but Damu isn't a guy I can easily picture saying something jokingly.

 

Ah... I see. My bad.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Music: Non-existant during the game. Sure, they did it to make it like a Japanese movie, but it was really bad and just made the game feel awfully empty. I'm going through an area and I'd seriously have to put some type of music on because the lack of music drove me up the wall. And even when there was music it was quite mediocre compared to the old Suikodens.

 

Agreed. This is a problem in IV as well, and hell, probably most RPGs of this generation. The exception being Xenosaga I, and that was only in the cut scenes. Music in video games in general has gone way downhill in the past few years.

 

Gameplay: Stupid magic nearly kills me all the time to the point that I avoided it. The battle system with its "buddy-assistance" leaves something to be desired as you could only work with 3 characters a round and left you open quite often to getting smacked around like a little bitch.

 

I actually liked it better than the four-man parties in IV. It isn't as good as in I or II (although the big battles are better than in I). I never had any problem with magic after my characters were strong enough to use it, and I used fire magic all the time. None of the Suikoden games are terribly difficult. The hardest part of the game I thought was when you were playing as Thomas and didn't have access to powerful magic.

 

Story: One of the heroes of the game "Flame Champion" (ie: Guy who ends up amounting to NOTHING) doesn't show up till you nearly complete the game and by then is replaced by someone else. I didn't care for having him pimped up to be something for this game (which is what was the MO for the guy) and nothing happens for him.

 

He's dead. He fell in love with Sana and gave up the True Fire Rune so that he could grow old with her. Geddoe thinks he is a coward for doing so which is why they had a falling out. I actually thought this was a pretty good plot twist.

 

Lack of Oldness: No Lightning Flik (my namesake) or Viktor hurt this game as well (Star Dragon Sword anyone?!). Hell, practically no one that I knew from the old game showed up (if they did, God help me if I could find them). That alone drove me up the wall. I mean, you've got many loose ends from the last two games that don't get resolved in this one that should've been at least ALLUDED TO. Maybe I just never found them. What was the point of the bringing in old data when it did practically nothing?

 

The Star Dragon Sword is there. Viktor gave it to Edge so that he could get rid of it. More characters from I & II show up in this game than they do in IV. Lucia, Sasarai, Futch, Bright, Nash, Beechem, Joker, Apple, Jeane, Viki, Little Viki, Tuta, Lilly, Leknaat, Yuber & Luc were all in previous games and show up again here. There are a lot of relatives to characters in the first two games that show up here too (such as the Silverbergs). I do agree that Viktor & Flik could have easily been here, as well as Matilda Knights (who are allied with the Harmonians in III). There are numerous references to the first two games in the dialogue.

 

You have to remember that III takes place in entirely different country, 15 years after II. You can't expect all of the same guys to show up.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Agreed.  This is a problem in IV as well, and hell, probably most RPGs of this generation.  The exception being Xenosaga I, and that was only in the cut scenes.  Music in video games in general has gone way downhill in the past few years.

 

You mean its that bad in IV? Oh lordy.... But yeah, music in RPGs has dropped significantly.

 

I actually liked it better than the four-man parties in IV.  It isn't as good as in I or II (although the big battles are better than in I).  I never had any problem with magic after my characters were strong enough to use it, and I used fire magic all the time.    None of the Suikoden games are terribly difficult.  The hardest part of the game I thought was when you were playing as Thomas and didn't have access to powerful magic.

 

I didn't mind the system, but magic (besides Fire I should say) was absolutely rediculous to use.

 

And this game was brutal not in difficulty, but in the way you have to play with the 2 tier 3 part system. I didn't like having 6 people in my main party and not having access to them. If they are going to play that, do it like how Breath of Fire 4 and Final Fantasy X had it where you could switch in and out members (except make it only THAT character). Don't give me 6 guys and leave me hanging. That only pisses me off.

 

Story: One of the heroes of the game "Flame Champion" (ie: Guy who ends up amounting to NOTHING) doesn't show up till you nearly complete the game and by then is replaced by someone else. I didn't care for having him pimped up to be something for this game (which is what was the MO for the guy) and nothing happens for him.

 

He's dead. He fell in love with Sana and gave up the True Fire Rune so that he could grow old with her. Geddoe thinks he is a coward for doing so which is why they had a falling out. I actually thought this was a pretty good plot twist.

 

You can tell how far I got in the game as I didn't get that far, thanks though because knowing this I can safely now go "I ain't playing this again". However, my main grief is that the Suikoden creators specifically said "The Flame Champion is the main hero of this game". ...um, excuse me. No, he's not. He's apart of the supporting cast.

 

The Star Dragon Sword is there.  Viktor gave it to Edge so that he could get rid of it.    More characters from I & II show up in this game than they do in IV.  Lucia, Sasarai, Futch, Bright, Nash, Beechem, Bright, Joker, Apple, Jeane, Viki, Little Viki, Tuta, Lilly, Leknaat, Yuber & Luc were all in previous games and show up again here.  There are a lot of relatives to characters in the first two games that show up here too (such as the Silverbergs).  I do agree that Viktor & Flik could have easily been here, as well as Matilda Knights (who are allied with the Harmonians in III).  There are numerous references to the first two games in the dialogue.

 

I know, but Viktor was declared in Suikoden II as Star Dragon Sword's true master. Why would the sword let him give it up? That makes no sense considering how much the Sword bitched about him being the right guy.

 

As for the rest, guess I either forget how far I got and who joined (since some seem familiar), or at that point just didn't care anymore. And hey, why do you have Bright (Blight) twice? There's only Jowy.

 

I expected Flik because there has to be some closure to him moving on from Odessa's death. That's why I expected him there. That and he was supposed to be adventuring still if I remember correctly. Him not being there is like saying "oh he's still trying to get over it, but to you finding out if he has"

 

You have to remember that III takes place in entirely different country, 15 years after II.  You can't expect all of the same guys to show up.

II was in a different country than I. II was also 5 years removed from I. Sure, its now 20 years, but dammit. Its like a must that half the gang shows up.

[Highland 0]

Final Fantasy VII through X are pretty good.

Xenogears is awesome. (Suck it, AndrewTS!)

Chrono Cross, the Suikoden games, Star Ocean 2 (not turn based, but well worth your time) and some games on the SNES like Chrono Trigger.

[Guest Skironox]

Dragon Warrior I-III are all in one package on Game Boy Color? Man, gotta get me that one.

 

I Know about the Phantasy Star Collection but I'm still up in the air about that one.

 

I can't suggest any other RPG's for Dama because he's played pretty much every single one I've played. Except for the Fallout series, Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment. Those are worth checking out.

 

If you haven't played Tales of Phantasia, it's definitely worth checking out. It's emulator only though.

[Matt Young 0]

If you haven't played Tales of Phantasia, it's definitely worth checking out. It's emulator only though.

I've heard of this, but I know very little about it. I'll go research the game on GameFAQs now, but please tell me more.

 

I've just finished the first disc of Tales of Symphonia and should be done with the game soon (the second disc is a lot shorter) and it's one of my favorite games. I'd love to play something else in the series during the 10 months I have until Tales of Legendia is released over here.

[AndrewTS 0]

Dragon Warrior I-III are all in one package on Game Boy Color? Man, gotta get me that one.

No--Dragon Warrior I & II are on one black GBC cartridge.

Dragon Warrior III was released separately. That auction has both cartridges, so it would be convenient.

 

Although I'm sure a pirate could whip up a multi-cart easily.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

Only a really devoted collector would go for the NES version of DW3, which is inferior overall. DW3 is one of the rarely/higher-priced NES games ont he secondary market despite that.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

The Grandia series has the best turn-based battle system in existence.

[Matt Young 0]

Dama- It's hard to recommend games when I don't know what systems you have. Obviously, you have a PS2, and I believe you've stated taht you own an Xbox, but that's all I know of at this point.

[Damaramu 0]

Dama- It's hard to recommend games when I don't know what systems you have. Obviously, you have a PS2, and I believe you've stated taht you own an Xbox, but that's all I know of at this point.

I have every system.

[Guest OSIcon]

Only things about WOR that I don't care for are all the unexplained disappearances (I assume Banon died?)

 

No explanation of what happened to Bannon has always bothered me. Especially because he disappears before the WOR. Had he been around right before the Floating Continent and then just not showed up in the second half of the game, it at least would have been reasonable to assume that he died when the apocalypse happened. The way it is though, he just disapperars without anyone mentioning whether he was killed in Vector, when the world changed, or still alive somewhere.

 

OSIcon: That pretty much sums up why I had enjoyed FF6 so much. WoR I liked a lot, because of the vast amount of freedom to complete all the various sidequests in any order you wanted.

 

The only thing I disliked about the setup was that there were a few items you couldn't get in the WoR, but that's a minor quibble.

 

I immensely enjoyed playing it waaay back then without any hint books, guides, or anything--then playing it later and using the 'net to track down nearly every hidden thing.

 

Chrono Trigger's similar approach was also a very enjoyable part of it to me.

 

Yea, they kind of took the "try and please everyone stance" by having a linear portion and a non-linear one. It's great for people that enjoy both (myself included) but I can see why someone who likes very linear gameplay would be completely disappointed when they reach the WOR.

 

Agreed on Chrono Trigger also.

 

FFVII is overrated mainly because it was the first RPG a lot of people played OR long time RPG players that played it loved seeing that genre being taken to the next levl presentation wise (3-D, longer, ect). It isn't a bad game, but so many people loved it for reasons other than it's gameplay and that's clouded their judgment of the gameplay. Like Special K said, it also started a the bad trend of "style over substance" for RPG's because the people that started playing RPG's with VII felt that is the way they should ne.

 

That's unfair to compare really. Because Final Fantasy VI had a good script because it had graphical limitations on it. To switch the two around might cause the same effect just reverse the problem. We'd probably get a really bad translation and script for Final Fantasy VI, but get an awesome one for Final Fantasy VII.

 

I don't buy that.

 

For starters, VI had good graphics for the time. So the notion that the script was weak to compensate for the lack of graphics doesn't hold up. For the time is was made, it had good graphics AND a good script. VII had the graphics (again, for the time it was released) but the script wasn't as good as VI. Both had good graphics given their time period and system but only VI had a good story and translation.

[Matt Young 0]

*Goes to find RPGs to recommend for the Turbo Duo*

 

Seriously though, you emntioned older systems as well... but oh well.

 

Most others have covered the PS2 side of things, and the good Xbox RPGs aren't turn based.

 

For GameCube, Paper Mario 2 is one of the greatest games ever and it has that distinctive Mario/Nintendo charm.

 

Skies of Arcadia: Legends is a fantastic roleplaying game, but the random battles that occur far too frequently are a downer.

 

The best RPG ever in my opinion (well, except for maybe Chrono Trigger) is Tales of Symphonia for the GameCube. Great story, great graphics, great gameplay, great characters... great everything. It's not turn-based, but I loved the real time battles, and that's coming from someone who enjoys turn-based combat to the point that I've insisted it be used in real life battles.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I didn't mind the system, but magic (besides Fire I should say) was absolutely rediculous to use.

 

But fire is the main one that kills your own party members. With lightning, wind & earth you don't have to worry about that, and water should only be used for healing.

 

You can tell how far I got in the game as I didn't get that far, thanks though because knowing this I can safely now go "I ain't playing this again". However, my main grief is that the Suikoden creators specifically said "The Flame Champion is the main hero of this game". ...um, excuse me. No, he's not. He's apart of the supporting cast.

 

Not that Flame Champion. Whatever of the three main guys you choose becomes the new Flame Champion.

 

I know, but Viktor was declared in Suikoden II as Star Dragon Sword's true master. Why would the sword let him give it up? That makes no sense considering how much the Sword bitched about him being the right guy.

 

As for the rest, guess I either forget how far I got and who joined (since some seem familiar), or at that point just didn't care anymore. And hey, why do you have Bright (Blight) twice? There's only Jowy.

 

I expected Flik because there has to be some closure to him moving on from Odessa's death. That's why I expected him there. That and he was supposed to be adventuring still if I remember correctly. Him not being there is like saying "oh he's still trying to get over it, but to you finding out if he has"

 

Edge's village was attacked by vampires, so he 'lent' him the Star Dragon Sword to fight them off. Edge is looking for Viktor so that he can give it back.

 

That was a mistake. I don't mean either Blight. I mean Bright, the white dragon that Futch has.

 

Flik & Viktor went to join in with the Higheast Rebellion. Harmonia invaded the former Kingdom of Highland (now apart of Dunan) a couple of years previous to the events of Suikoden III, and Shu sent them there to fight off the Harmonians. Afterwards they went to the Island Nations, I believe. It was somewhere to the south anyways.

 

II was in a different country than I. II was also 5 years removed from I. Sure, its now 20 years, but dammit. Its like a must that half the gang shows up.

 

II is only three years after I, and it occurs in a neighbouring country, which in the course of the game becomes an ally of the Toran Republic. You even go back to the Toran Republic for a little while, which is where many of the returning characters from I show up (Gremio, Cleo, Pahn, Lepant, Alen, Grenseal, Valeria, Tir, Kasumi, etc. all show up in or near Toran territory).

 

The Grasslands are closest to the Tinto Republic and Harmonia, which is why you see returning characters from both of those places in III.

[Damaramu 0]

Are the more recent Breath of Fire games really good? Like 4 and Dragon Quarter(is that what it's called?)

[Lightning Flik 0]

No explanation of what happened to Bannon has always bothered me.  Especially because he disappears before the WOR.  Had he been around right before the Floating Continent and then just not showed up in the second half of the game, it at least would have been reasonable to assume that he died when the apocalypse happened.  The way it is though, he just disapperars without anyone mentioning whether he was killed in Vector, when the world changed, or still alive somewhere.

Blink and you miss him in Vector. Yeah, he DOES die. Or at least was in Vector.

 

Although, you could make the case that Duncan and Bannon are the same guy (hey, why use that EXACT sprite for Duncan).

 

Yea, they kind of took the "try and please everyone stance" by having a linear portion and a non-linear one.  It's great for people that enjoy both (myself included) but I can see why someone who likes very linear gameplay would be completely disappointed when they reach the WOR.

 

The problem with the WOR is that it pretty much was in ruins and yet everyone who had been a hero from the year previous actually got on with their lives.

 

Um... Excuse me? Hello. I wouldn't be just wasting my damn time for a year and living a shallow existance. I would be trying to find a way to get rid of Kefka. I think that's everyone's problem.

 

Like Locke decided to drop everything to say Rachel, while I think that's quite noble, how about you save the world first THEN try bringing her back. Why bring her back into this world when Kefka could wipe her out just like that? Yeah it was entertaining seeing the storyline between the two, but after I went through it a second time (cause I always play an RPG at least twice through-wait, that means I will touch Suikoden III again, aw fuck no) I looked back and wasn't overly impressed with this. You could've made it so dramatic in that Locke was trying to save the world to save her, but she still dies/commits sacrifice. Would've been far better. Hell, it would've been better if Rachel actually told Locke to move on in his life and to his new found love.

 

Its things like that that just irked me about WoR myself and why I think its second best of the Final Fantasy. WoR was a great concept that was flawed in execution of story-telling.

 

FFVII is overrated mainly because it was the first RPG a lot of people played OR long time RPG players that played it loved seeing that genre being taken to the next levl presentation wise (3-D, longer, ect).  It isn't a bad game, but so many people loved it for reasons other than it's gameplay and that's clouded their judgment of the gameplay.

 

Cinematics over anything else. Its a bad trend that is getting to the point that some games *coughxenocoughsagacough* are just blantantly being a movie with game filled in. To RPG companies these days, it seems like they don't want to actually make a game.

 

Like Special K said, it also started a the bad trend of "style over substance" for RPG's because the people that started playing RPG's with VII felt that is the way they should ne.

This is why I'll tout Tales of Symphonia as the best RPG since the new school ones started. Its about style. The FMVs aren't meaningless yet not long to bore you to death, the game still ranks in as a long game (assuming you DO more than just blitz through), the battles are fun, the characters are well-built and there is plenty of reasons to play and play again. Its pretty much this generations Chrono Trigger.

 

...oh and yes, I meant to open that can o'worms.

 

For starters, VI had good graphics for the time.  So the notion that the script was weak to compensate for the lack of graphics doesn't hold up.  For the time is was made, it had good graphics AND a good script.  VII had the graphics (again, for the time it was released) but the script wasn't as good as VI.  Both had good graphics given their time period and system but only VI had a good story and translation.

Ok, how about I put, "limitations in what FFVI's system could do"? Geezus. Did I say it didn't have good graphics? No. Did I say it had a weak script? No. There's just a limit to what you can do on a SNES.

 

...you know what, I'm just going programmer mode. Fuck it.

 

I'm saying that when you know the full capabilities of the hardware, you don't need to pressure yourself into going beyond those capabilities, therefore you have extra time to build on the other things. Remember that Final Fantasy VI was the third of the 3 games for the SNES. They had time to master the details to making games on the SNES.

 

Final Fantasy VII was the first RPG ( ok, by Squaresoft) built for the PlayStation. Its a new system, a new design. Everything that was used for Final Fantasy I - VI goes out the window because they aren't even designing for Nintendo now but Sony. You have to build your code different under a different operating system, you have to adhere to a different set of business code ethics when building under a new system, and most importantly you don't know any little "cheats" to make things go faster or better.

 

Hence you don't get the extra luxury to make sure that every detail on that script is right. You've got a deadline to meet and getting that game out the door is more important financially than making sure its like 50 times better than Final Fantasy VI in terms of script. You've got more people trying to digest and maintain lines of code than you do making sure you've got enough people to make sure everything else gets done combined.

 

Add in the factor of everyone expecting this RPG to usher in a new age to gaming and you want to make this game as graphically best as you possibily can (and that's quite debatable). If that's going to cost you a few plot holes and making the deadline it will be taken.

 

Toss the two around and you'd still run up the same problem with Final Fantasy VI and why Final Fantasy VII could be just as damn good as VI.

 

...and considering I'm a programmer, I know what I'm talking about.

 

The best RPG ever in my opinion (well, except for maybe Chrono Trigger) is Tales of Symphonia for the GameCube.  Great story, great graphics, great gameplay, great characters... great everything.  It's not turn-based, but I loved the real time battles, and that's coming from someone who enjoys turn-based combat to the point that I've insisted it be used in real life battles.

BTW, you can get Tales of Symponia for PS2. Don't. Get the Gamecube version as it is highly superior in terms of framerate, sound quality, and overall appearance.

 

Even if there's a few bonus stuff on the PS2 version, seriously don't. Not worth it at all.

 

And glad I'm not the only one who thinks that it rivals Chrono Trigger. Thought I might be going insane.

 

I didn't mind the system, but magic (besides Fire I should say) was absolutely rediculous to use.

 

But fire is the main one that kills your own party members. With lightning, wind & earth you don't have to worry about that, and water should only be used for healing.

 

Dammit, I meant Lightning. God dammit, stupid, stupid. Meant to put Fire was absolutely freaking rediculous to use. Lightning was the only good spell.

 

You can tell how far I got in the game as I didn't get that far, thanks though because knowing this I can safely now go "I ain't playing this again". However, my main grief is that the Suikoden creators specifically said "The Flame Champion is the main hero of this game". ...um, excuse me. No, he's not. He's apart of the supporting cast.

 

Not that Flame Champion. Whatever of the three main guys you choose becomes the new Flame Champion.

 

...ok, seriously, they touted the Flame Champion and him alone as the main guy and the other guys stories revolve around his who eventually take precendence.

 

Edge's village was attacked by vampires, so he 'lent' him the Star Dragon Sword to fight them off.  Edge is looking for Viktor so that he can give it back.

 

That was a mistake.  I don't mean either Blight.  I mean Bright, the white dragon that Futch has.

 

Flik & Viktor went to join in with the Higheast Rebellion.  Harmonia invaded the former Kingdom of Highland (now apart of Dunan) a couple of years previous to the events of Suikoden III, and Shu sent them there to fight off the Harmonians.  Afterwards they went to the Island Nations, I believe.  It was somewhere to the south anyways.

 

Oh now I remember Edge and SDS. I was laughing so fucking hard when I heard that cause it was like "only Viktor could pull something like that on someone".

 

Ah, ok. I thought you had meant Bright, but when I saw it twice I'm like "no person with that name." Must've meant Blight, but um... Jowy's gone with Riou to God knows where and Jowy's wife wasn't around last I checked.

 

Oh, but still. A Suikoden without Flik just feels so empty... Ok, I just really liked my namesake dammit. I want more of his story cause he needs to finally obtain peace and I'd like to see it.

 

II is only three years after I, and it occurs in a neighbouring country, which in the course of the game becomes an ally of the Toran Republic.  You even go back to the Toran Republic for a little while, which is where many of the returning characters from I show up (Gremio, Cleo, Pahn, Lepant, Alen, Grenseal, Valeria, Tir, Kasumi, etc. all show up in or near Toran territory).

 

The Grasslands are closest to the Tinto Republic and Harmonia, which is why you see returning characters from both of those places in III.

Ah, ok... ...dammit, I seriously need to replay the other two games and then this one cause I forgot how the geography went.

 

Are the more recent Breath of Fire games really good? Like 4 and Dragon Quarter(is that what it's called?)

Breath of Fire 4 is pretty good, however I consider it the worst of the series. Its still good but I didn't care for it.

 

Dragon Quarter is an interesting, unique and quite possibly most frustrating game that you'll play in a long time. The story is great though, and once you get the hang of it its worthwhile. v_v Sadly its one of the games on my too finish list.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Dammit, I meant Lightning. God dammit, stupid, stupid. Meant to put Fire was absolutely freaking rediculous to use. Lightning was the only good spell.

 

Fire is a minor nuisance early on, but once you get your skills worked up, your guys are fast enough that they can hit the guy and then move out of the way for the fire spell. The key is to making sure your other party members have enough movement points to move out of the way. The scale at the bottom of the screen should help you with that. Besides, if it is just the gameplay you hate, why don't you try reading the manga?

 

...ok, seriously, they touted the Flame Champion and him alone as the main guy and the other guys stories revolve around his who eventually take precendence.

 

I didn't read much in terms of advertisment for the game, so I will take you at your world.

 

Its just a plot twist. And the Flame Champion is a title, not just a person. He is just called the Flame Champion because he has no official name.

 

Oh now I remember Edge and SDS. I was laughing so fucking hard when I heard that cause it was like "only Viktor could pull something like that on someone".

 

Ah, ok. I thought you had meant Bright, but when I saw it twice I'm like "no person with that name." Must've meant Blight, but um... Jowy's gone with Riou to God knows where and Jowy's wife wasn't around last I checked.

 

Jowy may or may not be dead. He is in Suikogaiden afterwards, but the official company line is that his fate is up to the player. Therefore neither he, Riou or Nanami were allowed to show up in III, unless they did something similar to what they did with Gremio in II.

 

Jillia Blight was living in Harmonia last we saw. But there is another potential member of the Blight family hanging around. Hugo's father is someone from Highland during the Dunan Unification Wars, and Konami has said that we have seen him. Now this could be any of the generals from Highland in II, but the favourites seem to be either Luca or Jowy. Probably Jowy, since he was the one that had the most interaction with Lucia in II. We never see Lucia & Luca together in II, which led some people to think that she showed up later, but she also mentions that she fought along side Sasarai there in III, and he fled before Luca died, so she was definitely in Highland by the time he was killed. Still, I think Jowy is probably the most likely.

 

Oh, but still. A Suikoden without Flik just feels so empty... Ok, I just really liked my namesake dammit. I want more of his story cause he needs to finally obtain peace and I'd like to see it.

 

I wish he'd show up too. They were two of the most popular characters in the franchise.

[Matt Young 0]

Tales of Symphonia is only out for PS2 in Japan. Unless it has English subtitles or you know Japanese, it's pretty pointless to play that version considering RPGs are so dependent on text and/or dialogue.

[chaosrage 0]

What I have played(off the top of my head):

-Every Final Fantasy on the market

-Xenogears

-Wild Arms 3

-Breath of Fire 3

-Both Legaia games

-Both Chrono games

-Both KOTOR games

-The Baldur's Gate series

-Saga Frontier

-The Mana games

 

That's all i can think of off the top of my head. I probably should've mentioned that in the first post.

Get a SNES emulator and download Lufia 1, Lufia 2, and Earthbound.

[Dimensions 0]

Hey, did any of you enjoy playing Legend of Dragoon? I thought that was a pretty good game...

[Special K 0]

Oh, yeah, good call on Lufia 2, which is VERY fun. Good puzzles, good combat, decent story.

 

Legend of Dragoon is poopy.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Dammit, I meant Lightning. God dammit, stupid, stupid. Meant to put Fire was absolutely freaking rediculous to use. Lightning was the only good spell.

 

Fire is a minor nuisance early on, but once you get your skills worked up, your guys are fast enough that they can hit the guy and then move out of the way for the fire spell. The key is to making sure your other party members have enough movement points to move out of the way. The scale at the bottom of the screen should help you with that. Besides, if it is just the gameplay you hate, why don't you try reading the manga?

 

Ah, I see... I didn't realize you could get them fast enought o actually dodge the damn thing.

 

There's a manga for it? Ooo... GIMME. NOW.

 

...ok, seriously, they touted the Flame Champion and him alone as the main guy and the other guys stories revolve around his who eventually take precendence.

 

I didn't read much in terms of advertisment for the game, so I will take you at your world.

 

Its just a plot twist. And the Flame Champion is a title, not just a person. He is just called the Flame Champion because he has no official name.

 

Well, then I guess they were doing the bait and switch then with it, since technically they weren't lying with what they said if the spoiler is true, but still just doesn't sit right with me.

 

Jowy may or may not be dead.  He is in Suikogaiden afterwards, but the official company line is that his fate is up to the player.  Therefore neither he, Riou or Nanami were allowed to show up in III, unless they did something similar to what they did with Gremio in II.

 

Though the official company line is it was up to the player, I'm leaning towards we'll be seeing Jowy and Riou again. If I remember the lore of the True Runes correctly, all the True Runes holders (the final ones) would be there when the final battle happens. Besides, those who hold the True Runes life spans increase dramatically, so Jowy and Riou will probably be kicking for Suikoden V (assuming V will be apart of the Nation Islands).

 

Jillia Blight was living in Harmonia last we saw.  But there is another potential member of the Blight family hanging around.  Hugo's father is someone from Highland during the Dunan Unification Wars, and Konami has said that we have seen him.  Now this could be any of the generals from Highland in II, but the favourites seem to be either Luca or Jowy.  Probably Jowy, since he was the one that had the most interaction with Lucia in II.  We never see Lucia & Luca together in II, which led some people to think that she showed up later, but she also mentions that she fought along side Sasarai there in III, and he fled before Luca died, so she was definitely in Highland by the time he was killed.  Still, I think Jowy is probably the most likely.

 

Hm... Didn't think about Hugo's father. I wonder who exactly he is, because he's supposed to be a prominant character and actually if I'm not mistaken, many people guess that's who was being talked about and not Jowy.

 

I still think its Jowy though.

 

Oh, but still. A Suikoden without Flik just feels so empty... Ok, I just really liked my namesake dammit. I want more of his story cause he needs to finally obtain peace and I'd like to see it.

 

I wish he'd show up too. They were two of the most popular characters in the franchise.

It felt wrong not having Flik there. I mean, with the SDS being given to Edge I could see Viktor doing that and leaving, but Flik needed to stick around dammit.

 

Oh well... At least means the confrontation between Edge and Viktor will be humorous.

 

Tales of Symphonia is only out for PS2 in Japan.  Unless it has English subtitles or you know Japanese, it's pretty pointless to play that version considering RPGs are so dependent on text and/or dialogue.

You mean it isn't coming stateside? I thought it was.

 

Hey, did any of you enjoy playing Legend of Dragoon? I thought that was a pretty good game...

I did enjoy Legend of Dragoon. My problem was that it had nearly every cliche you could pull, the gameplay was a hack job (20 pitiful healing items when spells were hard as bloody hadian didn't help at all), and graphically it was quite bland.

 

For a game that was five years in the making, it was utterly bad.

 

Oh, yeah, good call on Lufia 2, which is VERY fun. Good puzzles, good combat, decent story.

Too bad that everyone who tried to make a sequel to Lufia 1 and 2 basically hack jobbed it and blew up a very good and easy way to do it, in Sir Arek. Hell, the rest of the Lufia games have little to no connection to Lufia 1 and 2. Well, 3 does, but its a flipping hack job.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I've never even heard of a Lufia 3. Lufia 1 was the first RPG I ever played, fun times. Lufia 2 was also enjoyable, I wasted a lot of time at the Casino in it.

 

And Flik, it's not like you have the same guys working on script as you do on textures or backend coding or whatever. They're different departments, and in a large successful company like Square, they wouldn't have to fire script writers to bring on more programmers. If anything, they would just hire more coders based on anticipated sales of VII (which would have been plenty in Japan alone).

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

If you're downloading Lufia 2 and Earthbound make sure to get Super Mario RPG. I'd also recommend picking up Final Fantasy Origins for PSX for some really old school fun.

[Lightning Flik 0]

I've never even heard of a Lufia 3. Lufia 1 was the first RPG I ever played, fun times. Lufia 2 was also enjoyable, I wasted a lot of time at the Casino in it.

 

And Flik, it's not like you have the same guys working on script as you do on textures or backend coding or whatever. They're different departments, and in a large successful company like Square, they wouldn't have to fire script writers to bring on more programmers. If anything, they would just hire more coders based on anticipated sales of VII (which would have been plenty in Japan alone).

III was the on the GB and an absolute disaster.

 

Now then, onto your comment about the different departments:

 

This is true. They are different departments, but the programmers need to make the programming codes and textures work with the game. When you have a script and you've done six months of coding, but you need to make a revision to a script its very hard to do because you might have to totally replan and recode how a whole entire scene went. Totally recoding and replaning of a single scene can cost you anywhere from a week to a whole month depending on the changes. By changing a script, you change the feel of the scene, you change the necessary reactions by certain characters and most of all you have to go through a huge amountage of codes. Easy example of how much code is that over 300,000 lines of code just for the menus for RPGs.

 

Hire more coders based on anticipated sales? Heh... Sorry, that isn't how it works. You can only put as many coders on a product as the originally anticipated sales. Did they expect the numbers Final Fantasy VII? I doubt it. They were probably just thinking double of Final Fantasy VI.

 

Besides you can't just whip up coders who have no idea what's involved with the project to just jump into something that's six months to go. They have no idea why certain things are a certain why, they wouldn't be able to know all the little meanings or why someone did such and such a thing unless they've been sitting in front of that computer for a whole night and day.

Edited April 15, 2005 by Lightning Flik

[Highland 0]

There was a Lufia III? I have and like the first two. I also have LoD, it's not that bad but every review I've read shits on it.

[Highland 0]

Treasure of Rudra and Seiken Densetsu are must haves.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Oh and don't bother getting the third Lufia. It sucked really bad. All dungeons were randomly generated. That's how bad it was.

 

Seiken Densetsu was Final Fantasy Adventure. Seiken Densetsu 2 was Secret of Mana.

 

Unless you meant Seiken Densetsu 3 which never did get over here and never will because the creator of Seiken Densetsu hated it.

 

And Treasure of Rudra, was actually quite awesome. I'm amazed the game never game our side. Especially considering you could make up spells as you wanted (well, there was a trick to it but it was still cool).

Edited April 15, 2005 by Lightning Flik

[Highland 0]

I meant SD 3

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah why does Blockbuster suck so hard?

 

I used to be able to get any game I want there but these days they don't have shit. The only RPG you guys mentinoned that's there is Dragon Quarter.