The Slowly-Dying Death of RPG's.

[AndrewTS 0]

Yasunori Mitsuda did the soundtrack for Chrono Trigger.

 

Nobuo worked on it as well, though.

Actually only on Chrono Trigger's main theme and the "Sad" Theme (also Marle's theme, I think) did Nobuo help Mistuda. Otherwise, it was all Mitsuda.

Yeah, what I meant.

 

RPGs are, were, and will be a niche, albeit one that's grown quite a bit in popularity. Square's the only one so far to really make it their bread and butter in the U.S., but in Japan it happens a little more often.

 

At the same time, a high quality RPG has a pretty stable, if somewhat stagnant, possible market out there. Considering how games have grown more and more cinematic, the traditional RPG is either going to stick around, or be replaced with something better.

 

Considering that MK: Shaolin Monks, Beatdown: Fists of Vengeance, and the biggie--Rockstar's The Warriors are on their way, it seems that the industry is trying to revive the glory days of the beat 'em up genre. Now *that* was a genre overwhelmed with mediocrity and cheap cash-ins.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I actually liked X-2 than X.  X-2 gives you more freedom to actually play the game, rather than the extremely linear hold-you-by-the-hand approach of X.

You must really hate Xenogears and FF6 WOB then.

At least FFVI WOB has the split parties early on. And while the story in Xenogears you get more freedom to your own thing between main plot issues, and once you get to the world map on the second disk there is alot of extra stuff to do.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

FFX-2 is pretty empowering. The girls are really awesome in that. I love Yuna and Paine. (...) Some hardcore army chick with huge guns that blows stuff up doesn't do much for me. That's just lame. Square makes the best girls. Yuna & Rinoa are the best.

Goddamnit, at least Celes and Garnet actually fucking DID something risky to help save the world. Rinoa and Yuna were more or less interested in getting their man, and saving the world was a secondary objective.

 

I can't stand FF8/10 because they read like a girl's diary.

[Anya 0]

You could maybe say that about Rinoa, but Yuna? Yuna is probably the most selfless and heroric of them all. She was willing to give up her life to save the world, even after meeting Tidus.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Anya, its been like 3 years since the game came out. Its not classified as a spoiler anymore.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Nobuo's music is the best thing to come out of Japan, music-wise. Sure as hell isn't J-Pop, you stinkin' creeps.

hahahahaha

Okay you're on the clock. Defend J-Pop without being creepy.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Anyanka has a point about Yuna, her whole character is all about helping others. It even becomes an in-joke in X-2, with Shinra's amusing "Hero, Summoner...Doormat" line.

 

Rinoa though, she was useless. I have no idea why anyone would like her.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

Nobuo's music is the best thing to come out of Japan, music-wise. Sure as hell isn't J-Pop, you stinkin' creeps.

hahahahaha

Okay you're on the clock. Defend J-Pop without being creepy.

Didn't say I like Jpop. It's that there are better composers than Uematsu. Not that that stops me from going to his concerts like a dork...

[Damaramu 0]

I mean I agree I can't find an RPG I like these days like I did in the old days. But I think that was more because RPG's were like a new experience and I was like a wide eyed kid finding this new world. I'm jaded and so are you Crono.

[Special K 0]

Nobuo Uematsu

Yoko Kanno

Guitar Wolf

Cibo Matto

 

That's pretty much my knowledge of Japanese music.

[Jingus 0]

I for one didn't really mind any of the characters or voice actors in FFX. Hell, the first time Yuna used her powers to send the souls of all the disaster victims on to the afterlife was possibly the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in a videogame. Yeah, the voice acting wasn't as good as Metal Gear Solid, but shit, whose is? Voice acting over an animated character is HARD. For a great example, just check out Princess Mononoke, where despite a script by Neil Gaiman and voicing from some really good actors it still fell victim to the occasional Standard Japanese-To-Engrish Mistranslation Which Makes The Whole Audience Groan.

 

I didn't like FFX-2 much. I thought it was an unnecessary sequel and lacked any real plot reason for me to care about any of it, aside from the quest to find Tidus. I got almost halfway through the game, and instead of trying to save the world we're still fighting various flunkies in order to save some village.

 

And the MOST annoying thing, the thing that pissed me off to no end, was how lightly all the villains took the heroes. "Well, you girls almost single-handedly defeated Sin and saved the entire world a few years ago, well then HAHAHA of course my array of kung-fu chopsticks and my two idiot henchmen will easily take care of you, you pathetic scum!" And yet the heroes never call them on it. That just pisses me off every time I see it in any RPG, which is unfortunately way too often. I long for moments for moments like when the party fucking kills Seymour early on in FFX, because way too many of the heroes act like pantywastes who just sit there frozen while the villains taunt them and then escape after having stolen the Hyper Death Armageddon Thingie.

[Lightning Flik 0]

You see what's supposed to happen is if some villian does the taunting (usually), the case is that someone dies from the party to prove the point. Like Tellah (I'd add Polom, Porom, Yang and Edward but they all fucking came back), Aeris, Leene (yes, she came back, but she should've stayed dead), etc. Someone you get attatched too that just croaks it so as to prove the villian right that, yes, in fact he can kick the everloving shit out of the heroes and is a Godly main villian.

 

The only other way to do it is the Lucas Blight way. You know, insane asshole that takes a forest fire, three unsuccessful ambushes (think it was three), a duel, and then a ton of arrows (not positive on this last one). Now that's a baddie.

[Guest CronoT]

What it all ultimately boils down to is, a preference now of style over substance. Style and glitz can only cover the lack of substance for so long. Once that's gone, there's pretty much nothing left.

[Guest MikeSC]

I didn't like FFX-2 much. I thought it was an unnecessary sequel and lacked any real plot reason for me to care about any of it, aside from the quest to find Tidus. I got almost halfway through the game, and instead of trying to save the world we're still fighting various flunkies in order to save some village.

 

And the MOST annoying thing, the thing that pissed me off to no end, was how lightly all the villains took the heroes. "Well, you girls almost single-handedly defeated Sin and saved the entire world a few years ago, well then HAHAHA of course my array of kung-fu chopsticks and my two idiot henchmen will easily take care of you, you pathetic scum!" And yet the heroes never call them on it. That just pisses me off every time I see it in any RPG, which is unfortunately way too often. I long for moments for moments like when the party fucking kills Seymour early on in FFX, because way too many of the heroes act like pantywastes who just sit there frozen while the villains taunt them and then escape after having stolen the Hyper Death Armageddon Thingie.

My biggest beef was that the show had a horrible deja vu quality. I don't think multiple RPG's should use the exact same environments because it tends to reek of being similar to backtracking.

-=Mike

[LaParkaMarka 0]

What it all ultimately boils down to is, a preference now of style over substance. Style and glitz can only cover the lack of substance for so long. Once that's gone, there's pretty much nothing left.

X-2 had an excellent battle system, but you can't get over it's style. There was plenty of substance.

[Guest CronoT]

What it all ultimately boils down to is, a preference now of style over substance. Style and glitz can only cover the lack of substance for so long. Once that's gone, there's pretty much nothing left.

X-2 had an excellent battle system, but you can't get over it's style. There was plenty of substance.

Did I ever say I played X-2? It was an insult to RPG's, and I wasn't going to spend my hard-earned money on a sub-standard game. If you pay for crap, all you'll get is more of the same.

[Special K 0]

I think the above post pretty much proves you're a troll, Crono. You started a thread with a long, whining post about a video game you had never played, and how it's very existence hurt your feelings. Bravo.

Actually, the Grand Theft Auto Walkthrough thread proved you were a troll or a moron, so I can't say I'm surprised.

 

And, yes, you git, FFX-2 DID actually have a good battle system, and none of the spells were very flashy and time-consuming.

 

I fail to see how RPGs like Dragon Quest the first and the SNES Breath of Fires are chock full of substance. Breath of Fire's combat and story are dull as dirt. Dragon Quest gets a pass for being a trailblazer, but come on!

[tekcop 0]

Actually, the Grand Theft Auto Walkthrough thread proved you were a troll or a moron, so I can't say I'm surprised.

That and another thread he started in HD sometime before that are two of my favourite threads in the history of my tsm-ness. Just great, great comedy.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Well, I just thought I'd say that I've been playing video games since back in the old SNES days and I loved Dragon Warrior when it came out. Played it constantly. As the RPG progressed, I've tried to play a few here and there. Now, with this generation of consoles, I've tried to play mostly RPGs since I always feel cheated if I don't get a ton of play out of a game. Among the RPGs I've played this generation are:

 

Both Summoners

Both KOTORs

FF X and X-2

Kingdom Hearts

A Bard's Tale

Xenosaga

Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits

Dark Cloud 2

all 4 games of the .hack series

 

That's what I can remember off hand at 5 in the morning. I enjoyed all those games. Some, even most, of them would not be considered "classics" or even "very very good", but I saw nothing that would indicate the "death" of the genre. Sure some of them may not have been great, but most offered something different from the others.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't kiss off RPGs just yet. I'll be expecting them when the XBox 360, PS3, and Gamecube 2 come out.

 

P.S. to add to the "Tidus: dick or OK?" I'm on the fence, but leaning towards the "OK" side. Yes he did whine, but I figured he had some reason to (father disappears, left to fend for himself, watches his city destroyed, gets sucked into a foreign land, his girlfriend is about to sacrifice herself, then he finds out HE DOESN'T FREAKIN' EXIST!) He's nowhere near as cool as Auron (which may be almost impossible in the video game world) but at least he wasn't the typical angsty antihero hero like Squall.

 

BTW the fact that you're willing to bitch about a game that you've never played but are willing to deem "substandard" simply because...uhh... you didn't like the commercials? Didn't like Yuna? I don't know why for sure, but it says something. I'm not sure what, but it says something.

[Damaramu 0]

Actually, the Grand Theft Auto Walkthrough thread proved you were a troll or a moron, so I can't say I'm surprised.

That and another thread he started in HD sometime before that are two of my favourite threads in the history of my tsm-ness. Just great, great comedy.

I can understand the GTA walkthrough mistake.....I mean you never know when some religous nut will do something like that! Remember Chict Tracks?

Ok......maybe he doesn't know sarcasm.

[AndrewTS 0]

The only other way to do it is the Lucas Blight way. You know, insane asshole that takes a forest fire, three unsuccessful ambushes (think it was three), a duel, and then a ton of arrows (not positive on this last one). Now that's a baddie.

While I think it shouldn't be used by itself, a very effective way to build up the villain is to have him absolutely tear up the countryside, leaving only death and destruction in his path.

 

See: Zio, Sephiroth.

 

I thought the effect of seeing what Seph did to that giant worm (well, you just see its disemboweled carcass) when (at that point) your whole party had a bitch of a time being one was extremely effective. That and his theme music were very well done.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Oh Zio... I totally forgot about his badness.

 

Acutally yeah countryside taking out like Sephy, Kefka (Doma), and Lucas (uh... forgot which place it was) definitely brings out how bad they are.

 

Music is also part and parcel as well, because without the right theme, the baddie just doesn't seem to live up to the expectations.

 

Kefka's theme only worked for Kefka because he was loony, far more so than Sephy (who at least had some disturbed purpose) and Lucas (he at least had semi-rational thought).

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Luca took out Muse, but his armies also caused a lot of damage to other areas of the Dunan region, specifically Greenhill (where Jowy starved the place during a long seige) & South Window (their mayor surrenders and Solon Jhee responds by cutting off his head). He also butchers his own troops at the beginning of the game and makes it look like the State did it so that he can drum up support to continue the war. I was amazed at how strong they wrote Highland to be. For the first third of the game, the good guys are pretty consistantly getting their asses kicked by Highland, until Shu shows up and turns the war around.

 

I don't think Luca kills anyone major, but he does wipe out a bunch of lesser named characters and no-name scrubs.

[Hoff 0]

Crono's refusal to coexist with the new breed of RPGs is a tremendous allegory for society as a whole. The world changes, and those who don't like it won't let go.

 

I say we ban him.

 

Seriously, stud, just go get a Super NES (yeah~!) and try to understand you'll have to be content with ONE library full of great RPGs. That's what I've never understood about this line of thinking -- it's not like they're taking your old games away. As for new stuff, you're just gonna have to deal.

[Hoff 0]

Kefka's theme only worked for Kefka because he was loony, far more so than Sephy (who at least had some disturbed purpose) and Lucas (he at least had semi-rational thought).

He was so great. If I ever go bat-shit loony and become a genocidal dictator, Kefka will be my model. That punk Leo had NO IDEA what he was getting his buzzcut ass into.

[Special K 0]

That's one of the great fake-outs in game history. "Cool! I just got this badass new character with a neato special ability!" (though he's ugly as sin in the status screen.)

And then he just gets SAVAGED by Kefka.

[muzz 0]

I liked FF8 and 9.

 

John Dimaggio was X so it automatically rules.

 

Yay.

[Special K 0]

Did anyone else completely breeze through FF8 and then think the last boss was hard as FUCK?

[LaParkaMarka 0]

That's one of the great fake-outs in game history. "Cool! I just got this badass new character with a neato special ability!" (though he's ugly as sin in the status screen.)

And then he just gets SAVAGED by Kefka.

It was great, because you actually save the Espers and ally with Leo and it seems like the game will end happily. Then Kefka slaughters everything. Wonderful swerve.

 

I honestly don't remember the end of FFVIII. The game had a lot of potential up until it imploded during the garden battle.

[Jingus 0]

Wouldn't know. Except for Gameboy & Tactics and other crap like that, FFVIII is the only Final Fantasy I've never played. The word I heard from everyone was SO bad that I steered clear of it.