One and Only Star Wars Geekiness Thread

[SuperJerk 0]

In their primes Obi Wan vs Darth Vader.

May 19th.

 

Anakin's already taken the name Vader before he gets the suit. According to Lucas, he was less powerful after the lava injuries because he was half machine, and thus less connected to the Force.

[CBright7831 0]

Since I guess this is the OAO Star Wars Episode III thread, I will post this:

 

 

That's right. It gets it's own Tamatometer Watch on the main page of the RT. It's currently at 90% with two negative reviews.

 

"I imagine that Revenge of the Sith is very much the film Lucas's fans want to see, but are some of them ready for an anti-Bush diatribe?" -- Ed Gonzalez, SLANT MAGAZINE

 

This is one of them, and it had me thinking "WTF?!?!?"

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Since I guess this is the OAO Star Wars Episode III thread, I will post this:

 

 

That's right. It gets it's own Tamatometer Watch on the main page of the RT. It's currently at 90% with two negative reviews.

 

"I imagine that Revenge of the Sith is very much the film Lucas's fans want to see, but are some of them ready for an anti-Bush diatribe?" -- Ed Gonzalez, SLANT MAGAZINE

 

This is one of them, and it had me thinking "WTF?!?!?"

Reading the book, I actually got a hint of it myself.

 

The thing is, Palpatine uses war and the threat of war to grant himself more power. He makes the Senate and people so scared of war and the Separatists that they think nothing of having planetary governors and large forces of clone troops stationed on their planets for "peacekeeping reasons".

 

In the book, there's even a scene where Palpatine is declaring the beginning of the Empire and he says it's in the interests of "safety, security, justice, and peace". He even gets the Senate to voluntarily give over absolute power to him. Gee, kinda sounds like a worst case scenario of Bush and the Homeland Defense Act, doesn't it?

 

If this carries over to the movie, and it sounds like it does in some way, I won't be too thrilled. I've grown used to it though, since seemingly everything coming out of Hollywood has to go on about how evil Bush and Republicans are.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Sounds like, um, pretty much any dictator ever. Besides, the Clone Wars were already alluded to in ANH anyway. The New Order of Palpatine that was referenced so many times in EU stuff and whatnot has been semi-canon for ten years plus. Star Wars has a lot of themes and subtexts in it, but that's not really one of them.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I agree with Kotz on this one, and I can usually pick out any liberal bias in a movie. Although, I heard Lucas named that one bad guy "Newt" for Mr. Gingrich.

 

Although perhaps the case can be made Mr. Lucas was bashing Reagan back in the day...

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

I agree with Kotz on this one, and I can usually pick out any liberal bias in a movie. Although, I heard Lucas named that one bad guy "Newt" for Mr. Gingrich.

 

Although perhaps the case can be made Mr. Lucas was bashing Reagan back in the day...

Oh the irony! I'll just leave it at that, if you need to know the reference, just go to any site dealing with 80's political history and/or Regan sites

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Well, the leader of the Trade Federation is Nute Gunray.

 

I'm not saying Lucas intended ROS to be anti-Bush. I'm just saying that you could make the case for that if you wanted to push it.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Well, the leader of the Trade Federation is Nute Gunray.

 

I'm not saying Lucas intended ROS to be anti-Bush.  I'm just saying that you could make the case for that if you wanted to push it.

What about REAL dictators, not perceived ones? Why do liberals draw a parallel to Bush when it comes to dictatorship when there are real, brutal dictators out there?

 

I posted this in another SW thread, but I will post it here again. It's about Palpy's rise from the Imperial Sourcebook (West End Games, 1989):

 

"The Old Republic Wanes

 

The galaxy was once a great Republic of stars. The thousand-thousand member worlds were governed fairly and efficiently by the Senate, and cared for and protected by the Jedi Knights. Inevitably, as the number of worlds increased, the Republic found itself saddled with too massive a bureaucracy. It had grown too large, gotten too old, and corruption had set in.

 

A few greedy, unscrupulous senators had started the destructive chain reaction of malaise. They saw the first lingering problems as cracks in the system of government which could be exploited for personal gain. These beings found that their colleagues were far too occupied by the day-to-day running of the Republic to monitor their activities adequately.

 

The corruption was too small to be noticed at first. But as the opportunities grew, so did the number of senators who were seduced by the lure of illegitimate power and wealth. These senators found an easy alliance with some of the mammoth corporate interests which constantly were on the lookout for easy ways to make a profit. A few arrogant, self-serving bureaucrats fell to seduction, and suddenly a virus was in the stars.

 

Every instance of instability, each uncertainty in government action, every wrinkle in senatorial policy and procedure became a means to foster larger opportunities. Senator turned on senator, values eroded, trusts were broken, and fear gripped the Republic. What was once thought to he immortal suddenly saw the approach of its own destruction, and the Old Republic was afraid.

 

Corruption and fear spread like a mutant disease, quickly reaching epidemic proportions without any visible cause. The Old Republic’s trouble multiplied, and no one seemed to know what was happening-or why.

 

At last the Senate could no longer blind itself to the fact that the Old Republic was being devoured from within by those who had been entrusted with its care. During this time, the legitimate business of the Republic was neglected. Small, previously routine matters became insurmountable difficulties. The government became remote, unfathomable, often a useless burden to tens of thousands of governed races. The Republic was disintegrating, and it appeared that no one could it together.

 

The Rise of Senator Palpatine

 

Palpatine, an unassuming senator, began his road to power during this time of social injustice and rampant corruption. Palpatine was self-effacing and, despite a record of showing promise, was mostly ineffective in the Senate. His plodding, methodical way seemed at odds with the mercurial shifts of power and agendas which were the reality of the collapsing senate.

 

Palpatine failed to take advantage of opportunities for placement on important advisory boards and powerful committees. He was noted as keen observer, but he was reluctant to present his observations unless pressed by his colleagues. The senator rose slowly, hampered by an apparent lack of ambition. His only notable achievement was a remarkable absence of enemies, attributed as much to his weakness within the Senate as to his unimposing personality.

 

But this was all a ruse, for Palpatine was more than he appeared to be. Much more.

 

The disintegration of the Senate continued, exhausting the entire Republic. On the constituent worlds civil unrest was now commonplace and crime blossomed. Some worlds threatened secession. Others pledged their loyalty over the hypermedia while doing what they pleased. The uncorrupt senators realized the danger to the Republic and all it stood for. The corrupt senators could see the need for stability, if only to preserve as much of the Republic as possible for future plundering. A void existed, and it demanded to be filled.

 

Senator Palpatine seized the moment. Through fraud, clever promises, and astute political maneuvering, Palpatine had himself elected head of the Senatorial Council – President of the Republic.

 

The loyalists were encouraged that Palpatine had not fallen in with the corrupt senators during his tenure, while the fallen senators took heart from Palpatine’s apparent docility. Each side believed Palpatine would serve their needs. Each side could not have been more wrong.

 

The New Order

 

The new President exceeded everyone’s expectations. In the midst of chaos, the previously underrated senator began the wheels of government turning again after too long a delay. He proved to be an efficient leader, restoring many of the policies which had lapsed during the waning years. His power supplanted that of the Senate-in these policies only. But as the Senate turned a greater portion of its attention to its internecine struggle, more and more government functions were given over to Palpatine.

 

The senators of each faction found themselves establishing political debts to Palpatine. The President was the only being in the Republic who seemed capable of getting anything done. Palpatine’s power grew. An ever greater number of worlds accepted the President as the voice of the Republic.

 

It was in this climate of trust that that Palpatine declared his New Order and named himself Emperor. Skillfully evoking images of the glories of empires past, as well as promising to lead the Republic to a height unparalleled in galactic history, Palpatine gained ultimate power without any real opposition. When the senators realized what had transpired, they were too weak from their own in-fighting to mount an effective challenge. Those too vocal were silenced. Those considered dangerous were rendered harmless by whatever means were convenient. Darkness and tyranny spread slowly but continuously, entrenching itself across more and more worlds before anyone realized the danger.

 

The Empire was born.

 

Palpatine promised to eradicate the corruption and social injustice of the previous galactic government. Instead, he gave people a program that’s main goal was to subjugate as many planetary governments in the galaxy as possible for the personal benefit and glory of the Emperor. He reneged on his promises to the people and instituted a reign of terror and even greater social injustice.

 

The Old Republic was consumed and out of that rotted body rose the New Order."

[LessonInMachismo 0]

I agree with Kotz on this one, and I can usually pick out any liberal bias in a movie. Although, I heard Lucas named that one bad guy "Newt" for Mr. Gingrich.

 

Although perhaps the case can be made Mr. Lucas was bashing Reagan back in the day...

Nute Gunray = Newt + Reagan (Gunray = Ray-gun)

[Art Sandusky 0]

I was hoping LIM would re-post that, since I forgot where he initially posted it.

[Vern Gagne 0]

At their peak. Rank the best Jedi and Siths, in terms of fighting, use of the force, etc.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Today at work, I was browsing through a book called something like...A Photographic Dictionary of Star Wars III or something along those lines. You know those books where it'll have mostly pictures, with notes about specific details of the pictures? It was like that, like, they'd have a picture of Grevious and little captions that said like "Grevious has six fingers on each hand, with two opposable thumbs" or "this part of Grevious' armour keeps his remaining organs from falling out."

 

Anyway, I thought it was interesting until I came across a picture of Anakin Skywalker, looking an awful lot like he does in Kotz's sig. There was one caption that said "Hood raised for stealth".

 

I couldn't look at the book anymore.

[Carnival 0]

who is this Grevious you speak of?

 

There is no way he can be as cool as boba fett.

[Art Sandusky 0]

He ranks kinda high in all the categories, but I've come to the conclusion that Obi-Wan is the shit and OWNS the saga. I guess someone who learned for muthafuckin' Qui-Gon Jinn would have to be pretty damn awesome.

[Art Sandusky 0]

who is this Grevious you speak of?

 

There is no way he can be as cool as boba fett.

He's cooler, because Boba Fett is overrated poop.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

There is no way he can be as cool as boba fett.

 

There's a scene in one of the cartoons where Grevious is being attacked by a Jedi on both sides, but since he's weilding a lightsaber in each hand, he's able to block both of their strikes.

 

Then, while keeping their lightsabers blocked, his arms seperate in half, and his 3rd and 4th hands each grab a lightsaber of their own from his belt.

 

That's right.

 

THE GUY FIGHTS WITH FOUR FUCKING LIGHTSABERS AT ONCE.

 

So, he's *almost* as cool as Fett.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

I was hoping LIM would re-post that, since I forgot where he initially posted it.

The author, Greg Gordon, either had some kind of notes from Lucasfilm or he is a really good guesser...or Lucas or one of his advisors checked out the book and used the info.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

Anyway, I thought it was interesting until I came across a picture of Anakin Skywalker, looking an awful lot like he does in Kotz's sig. There was one caption that said "Hood raised for stealth".

 

I couldn't look at the book anymore.

Those books are awful.

 

The original trilogy one has such captions as "Winning smile" pointing to Lando's mouth and "On-duty braids" pointing to Leia's hair in her Hoth outfit.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Do you deny Lando has a winning smile?

[Vern Gagne 0]

Fett's still better because he's badass on his own merits. Greivous like half-robot.

[Carnival 0]

I'll have to go to the starwars website to see what he looks like.

 

I only know of star wars from the movies, never books.

 

But I always thought Jinn was a pussy. Obi was better. Anakin was better than Obi. Then comes Luke who i think was weaker than Anakin in his prime.

 

So for me it goes to Anakin/Vader.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Fett's still better because he's badass on his own merits. Greivous like half-robot.

 

More like 7/8ths.

 

He has his own eyes, spine, brain and some organs. I think that's it.

 

Actually, speaking of how bad that book was, it points out Grevious' eyes, which are described as sullen and reptilian, but on the same page claims that only his brain, spine, and some other organs are still in there somewhere.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Here's a question...

 

Had Anakin not turned into the mechanical Vader, and had to fight Luke, would the battle have been tougher for Luke?

[Use Your Illusion 0]

Grievous is the evil looking bastard to the right in my sig

[Highland 0]

Here's a question...

 

Had Anakin not turned into the mechanical Vader, and had to fight Luke, would the battle have been tougher for Luke?

Without the suit, Vader would have destroyed Luke, and probably Palpatine as well, since the suit actually reduced Anakin's power with the Force.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I imagine it'd fuck with Luke's head a lot more if he actually had to look in his father's eyes as he fought, also.

[SuperJerk 0]

Since I guess this is the OAO Star Wars Episode III thread, I will post this:

 

 

That's right. It gets it's own Tamatometer Watch on the main page of the RT. It's currently at 90% with two negative reviews.

 

"I imagine that Revenge of the Sith is very much the film Lucas's fans want to see, but are some of them ready for an anti-Bush diatribe?" -- Ed Gonzalez, SLANT MAGAZINE

 

This is one of them, and it had me thinking "WTF?!?!?"

WTF indeed. This comment is stupid on multiple levels. George Lucas came up with the plot and characters for this movie years before Bush was even President.

 

The title scrolls that open each and every Star Wars film have always brought to mind the visual outline of the monoliths in 2001: A Space Odyssey, which, in the way they point toward the sun and the moon and the mysteries that lie therein, have come to represent avatars of human progress. Though George Lucas's scrolls may follow in the monoliths' aesthetic and spiritual footsteps, they don't point to anything in particular—they simply spill into a black hole. It's like R2D2 spitting and burping behind Luke Skywalker with no real sense of direction: however iconic, these scrolls represent nothing but shallow exposition. But Star Wars fans still choose to cheer and follow the scroll's path, perhaps because a Star Wars film is, like 2001, an effigy of sorts: Kubrick's masterpiece canonizes evolution in the same way Lucas's films enshrine juvenilia.

 

The old Toys "R" Us motto ("I don't want to grow up") could apply to every Star Wars film that has come out since 1999. It's why we root for Yoda in Attack of the Clones and, now, Revenge of the Sith: the little green dude is like some childhood pet or stuffed animal coming to life and kicking some major ass, using a light saber that, face it, no human penis could ever hold a candle to. Lucas understands his audience's thirst for fantasy and hunger for nostalgic relief, but this is precisely why I'm hesitant to call him a filmmaker. He's more of a savvy businessman: he knows how to pick good collaborators (in Tell Them Who You Are, he all but credits Haskell Wexler for the success of his one good film, American Graffiti) and he uses the release of each new Star Wars film not so much to expand our minds but to roll out a new line of merchandising, like the cute lil' buzz droids that latch on to Obi-Wan's ship in the first few minutes of Revenge of the Sith.

 

Though Revenge of the Sith is single-mindedly obsessed with setting up the mystique of the first Star Wars film, the two films still look and feel completely unrelated. That's because these new Star Wars films, with their maddening obsession with digital photography, aren't very film-like and don't feel like they're challenging or responding to the mythology of the first three films, simply setting them up. Like Attack of the Clones before it, Revenge of the Sith is just another Reloaded-style mock-up of A New Hope, a faster, longer, taller Six Flags ride trying to outperform some dinky old thing from Coney Island. Gene Shalit might call Revenge of the Sith—which begins with an exciting space battle between Republic attack cruisers, Jedi fighters, and enemy battle cruisers—a "roller coaster thrill ride," and he'd be right, seeing as the battle's pleasures are more adrenal than aesthetic or emotional.

 

The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones were deadly bores, mostly because Lucas was staving off the inevitable, and if there's one thing that's good about Revenge of the Sith, it's that it knows how to keep things moving. It's not a great film, but it's better than its prequels and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't without its pleasures: the film's emotional center is both childish and childishly developed but the presentation is more elegant (a creepy, synchronized light show in the Senate hall may be Lucas's version of Eyes Wide Shut's masquerade ball), the music and villains (namely the spidery General Grievous) are compellingly insidious, and the light saber fights are awesome (four penises are better than one, right?). The sets still look like Oscar stages made from leftover materials used to build jungle gyms (Princess Amidala and Anakin Skywalker's first scene together appears to take place in the Egyptian temple from that Dolby Digital logo that kick-starts so many movies on DVD), but it's obvious that Lucas has learned from his more egregious mistakes: In spite of all the embarrassing digital fakery (like the 83-year-old Christopher Lee's face clearly having been plastered onto his stunt double's body), I can happily confirm that audiences won't have to sit through another piss-long senatorial meeting.

 

During the film's epic-length last stretch (minor spoilers lie herein), Lucas excitingly contrasts the death of Amidala (Natalie Portman) with the birth of Darth Vadar (Hayden Christensen). We know how it all pans out but the moral uncertainty of these characters is palatable enough to suggest that they might be able to stave off the inevitable if they choose to make the right decision. When, in an earlier scene, Amidala looks into Anakin's eyes and declares that he's breaking her heart, this brief emotional interruption from the ruinous explosions of the film's second half is much appreciated. Though Lucas writes love scenes with the naiveté of a suicidal schoolgirl ("I love you"…"No, I love you more"…or something to that effect), the film's central Sirk-in-space romance is at least earnest and poignant. Better yet, Lucas is surprisingly interested in examining what constitutes right and wrong here, and while Anakin's trip to the dark side is hurried, incredulous, and somewhat tawdry (the sniveling Darth Sidious seduces the young man like some lascivious priest luring a choir boy into his chambers), Anakin's moral struggle reveals itself as a complicated fusion of frustrated romantic and familial duty and thwarted ego.

 

I imagine that Revenge of the Sith is very much the film Lucas's fans want to see, but are some of them ready for an anti-Bush diatribe? Though every Star Wars film until now has existed in an insular comic-book world, a lot has happened since 1999 and 2002 in the real world and Lucas dares, for the first time, to address how the hollow political conflict in his franchise correlates with the reality outside its panels. (It would have been stupid not to strike a parallel.) Revenge of the Sith's two greatest moments tap into the uncertainty of our own political climate: the dazzling battle between Yoda and Darth Sidious (an outstanding Ian McDiarmid) inside the beautifully spiraling Senate hall evokes Democrats and Republicans scrambling for power and the with-us-or-against-us Anakin's obscenely over-the-top final duel with Obi-Wan (Ewan McGregor) is prefaced none-to-subtly with the Jedi master declaring, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Lucas's political gestures would be easier to appreciate if he himself didn't trade in absolutes and generalities (you know the drill: the darker the couture, the closer you are to the dark side), but it's still a welcome step forward. Pity we had to wait so long for it, but, as they say, better late than never.

 

Ed Gonzalez

© slant magazine, 2005.

 

credit: http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=1587

 

Someone forgot to tell this guy the movie was filmed 2 years ago.

 

On a side note, the head of the Trade Federation was named after 2 famous Republicans, the Trade Federation's senator, Lott Dodd, was named after both Trent Lott and Christopher Dodd, a very liberal northeastern Democrat Senator. Lucas was just looking for political sounding names, not trying to make comments.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I'm really not a big Star Wars fan, but these commercials are making me want to see this movie. If I get my expectations up like I did with the last one though...

[Vern Gagne 0]

Same with me. I'm not even remotley a Star Wars Geek. They do such a masterful job of selling the movie.

[LessonInMachismo 0]

WTF indeed. This comment is stupid on multiple levels. George Lucas came up with the plot and characters for this movie years before Bush was even President.

Years before Bush was governor?