What constitutes a great finisher?

[Guest RadioBurning]

I'm very interested in people's ideas on this sort of topic.

What elements do you think are needed to make a great finisher? Should it be unpredictable, technically sound, does it vary from performer to performer, does it need a catchy or gimmicky name, etc. How much can it affect a wrestlers success? Also feel free to provide examples or discuss maneuvers you dislike.

[KingPK 0]

It varies, obviously it should be the last move of a match 99.999% of the time (case in point: Hogan's leg drop and the Pedigree) and should be sold like the opponent is being put in extreme pain (like the Sharpshooter), or puts them flat on their back (The Stunner). Unpredictability helps with some, but in the case of moves like the 619, or the People's Elbow, it's mostly about the setup (ESPECIALLY in the case of the Elbow) and who's doing it. A guy like HHH would be laughed out of the building if he tried to put that much into a simple elbow drop.

 

One finisher I don't like is Jericho's current version of the Walls of Jericho, which is essentially a crappy Boston Crab. When he first came into the WWF, he used the Liontamer, which actually looks like it hurts with Jericho's knee in the guy's back bending him more on an upward angle.

[haws bah gawd 0]

I think it all depends on how the crowd reacts to a move. Personally, I have always been a fan of the "it can be hit from practically any position at any time" finisher. One of the most sucessful wrestlers to pull this off was Diamond Dallas Page with the Diamond Cutter. Though sometimes, it ended a match rather anti-clamatically, it always popped the crowd when he would hit it out of nowhere.

 

I've always wanted a wrestler to use the Flatliner in a "come out of nowhere" fashion. This is another move that uses that certain positioning, and could be made to be thought of as a death-move. I'm not talking about whatever Hassan is trying to pass off as a Flatliner now, but the move that Kanyon used to use.

 

On the other hand, a finisher could be all about presentation. Sure it isn't necessarily a believable finisher but the People's Elbow is over something awful with WWE crowds, as well as the WORM. Sure it doesn't look like it's death itself, but the crowds always expect these moves to lead to a pinfall.

 

Not to be left out, you have your death moves. Your F-5's, Tombstones, and Pedigrees. These are the moves that you hardly ever see anyone kick out of. I could be wrong but aside from Kane, I can't think of another wrestler I ever saw kick out after the Undertaker's Tombstone.

 

Of course, what makes a great finisher is all in the eyes of the beholder, and could be endlessly debated for a long time.

[iliketurtles 0]

The Pedigree is probably the best finisher today.

 

Why? Cause you know when someone gets hit with it, the match is over. Now a days, you get the Angle Slam and you don't know if the person is going to kick out before 2 or after 2. When someone gets hit with the Pedigree, you go "Oh shit." When someone kicks out of the Pedigree, you go "Holy shit."

 

That's what a finisher should do. When it happens, you immediately think the match is over.

[The Tino Standard 0]

I don't think there's any one set way to have a finisher. You've got your overly dramatic, over-the-top productions (People's Elbow) to the swift (Stunner) to the coma-inducers (Tombstone). That's OK. We always preach that we want variety from our wrestlers, so having all sorts of types of finishers is a good thing.

 

My only criteria for a finisher is that it should FINISH the match. If it's one of the latter two that I mentioned above, it should be devastating enough to end things on the spot. If it's one of those ridiculous, goofy moves, that can even work too on the premise that the guy has already been beaten so severely, you have time to showboat to finish him off.

[Guest RadioBurning]

What is the difference between Kanyon and Hassan style flatliners?

[Guest Fook]

A finisher should look like it legitimatly hurts, could realistically be done to any opponent at any time, and it is recognized that when the move is hit the match is over 99% of the time.

 

Using that criteria, the Stone Cold Stunner and Crippler Crossface would be my top picks for best finisher.

[Just John 0]

I agree that the most important thing is that it has credibility. Even something like the FU or Hogan's leg drop can add a ton of drama to the match just because the fans buy it, not because it looks particularly devastating.

 

Though personally, I like the devastaing looking finishers that clearly look more painful than mid-match moves and look like they could really put someone out.

 

Another important aspect is the sell. The sell is what separates a clothesline from the "clothesline from hell." Wrestling's a two-man job and if the victim sells a move like death, the opponent's finisher will look a lot better to the fans.

[haws bah gawd 0]

What is the difference between Kanyon and Hassan style flatliners?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hassan puts one arm under his opponents arm, and the other around the opponents head, locks his hands, and falls backwards.

 

Kanyon held his opponents arm, by the wrist, across his (Kanyon's) chest, then took his free arm and put it around his opponents head, then jumped backwards. This move looked like death when it was sold properly. Think of a reverse Russian Legsweep, with a bit more jump instead of a backwards fall.

[iliketurtles 0]

Wrestling's a two-man job and if the victim sells a move like death, the opponent's finisher will look a lot better to the fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When Rock takes the stunner, it looks like he's trying to defy the laws of gravity. When Angle takes the stunner, it looks like he literally got...stunned.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

What is the difference between Kanyon and Hassan style flatliners?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They're essentially the same, except Kanyon's looked a lot more crisp. It looked more like an inverted Russian Leg Sweep and got a little air, whereas Hassan's is just Hassan falling back, and the other guy falling almost straight dow.

[Just John 0]

Wrestling's a two-man job and if the victim sells a move like death, the opponent's finisher will look a lot better to the fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When Rock takes the stunner, it looks like he's trying to defy the laws of gravity. When Angle takes the stunner, it looks like he literally got...stunned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. An oversell can be just as bad for a move's credibility as an undersell.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

You should be able to hit it from anywhere, IMO. That's not to take away from a move like the Tombstone or the People's Elbow, and the anticipation makes for great theatre.

 

But I prefer a move like RKO or the Mandible Claw that can turn the match in a second.

 

To illustrate my point, the RKO on Taker at WM XXI.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I personally always look for the finisher to look like it hurts. Hogan's Leg Drop can be explained by the fact that you have a 300 lb or so man dropping a tree trunk of a leg across your throat, that should knock the air out of you, and remember, a finisher doesn't have to be death, it only has to keep them from getting up before a 3 count. With the People's Elbow, Rock has planted you with either the spinebuster or the Rock Bottom, both good finishers in their own right, and now he's putting the edge of his elbow into your chest, again, the breath should be knocked out of you. The Worm just doesn't have the same effect, nor does the FU, thus I dislike them. AT least the standard FU he usually uses, his sitout variation is much better, as is the Samoan Powerbomb version. Submission holds where the opponent can't easily counter are also good. Examples are the Sharpshooter, the Crossface, and the Figure 4 once it gets locked in. The Ankle Lock is sold all wrong, because that should be, especially with boots, a tap out quick move, because otherwise Angle should be able to break your ankle with it, it's that sort of move. He'd be much better off going back to using the Olympic Slam, which is just a setup now and he uses what could be a perfect opportunity to pin to pull off the straps, which is plain out dumb

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Also, finishing moves, within the promotion, at least, should be semi protected in that if someone else wants to use it from time to time(ie in WWF Paul London and Billy Kidman both use the SHooting Star Press, as long as it's used as a finisher by both, I don't see the problem, same with Lesnar at Wrestlemania 19, if he hit that, it finished the match. Things like that can also lead to nice, basic, old school feuds over who is the "master" of the move which make perfect sense and don't involve raping fake corpses, overt racism, or voodoo

[zyn081 0]

The Pedigree is probably the best finisher today.

 

Why? Cause you know when someone gets hit with it, the match is over. Now a days, you get the Angle Slam and you don't know if the person is going to kick out before 2 or after 2. When someone gets hit with the Pedigree, you go "Oh shit." When someone kicks out of the Pedigree, you go "Holy shit."

 

That's what a finisher should do. When it happens, you immediately think the match is over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Angle Slam has never really impressed me that much. I prefer tight submission holds and moves which throw somebody around the ring with a crash landing, and slightly weaker is they have a bridge to a pin.

 

I prefer those with the set-ups, cause they can be reveresed, although we have seen the RKO reveresed. I think Austin sold the stunner best. I think the Tista bomb is more death than the Tombstone and the Pedigree is.

[zyn081 0]

I actually think that the 1st version of the Pedigree was ruthless. It would actually be my finisher, but Id go for the underhook, lift and then the drill aspect.

 

Sorry for not asking for you permission, but jm29195 avatar is it. I think a lift would make it THE killer move.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I always liked the Perfectplex, because, while it didn't actually look much more devastating than a normal vertical suplex, you knew the guy wasn't going to kick out...it was basically inescapable. I guess I really like pinning finishers in general, though not a lot of guys use them anymore.

 

The only guy I can think of off the top of my head is Batista...at least he used to just do the pin after hitting the Batistabomb...now he sometimes rolls backwards and then covers, which is dumb, IMO.

 

I'm also glad the "hit them from anywhere" neck-grab finisher fad has kind of subsided...for a while it seemed like everyone had a finisher of some kind where they'd grab the opponent by the neck, somehow, and simply fall, either forward or backwards. I mean, I can only watch so many stunner and neckbreaker variations before getting bored.

[Dangerous A 0]

Also, crowds were starting to get conditioned by the "hit the finisher out of nowhere" bit to where everyone kind of just sits on their hands not buying any of the lead up moves as the finish which lead to a lack of hot near falls. They'd just wait until the said finisher was executed before showing any signs of life.

 

At least with a submission finisher, you have the possibility of a guy making the ropes for a break in the hold and with moves like the pedigree or Tista bomb, there is a long enough set up time or posturing that it can be countered to allow more time to build up to the finish.

[Dandy 0]

When Kanyon came to the WWE, he modified his Flatliner to provide a little more impact. The setup was the same, but he would lift the opponent into the air before diving backwards. He used it when he was "Invasion MVP" and carried the US Title. Sadly, he didn't get to showcase it much after that.

[Jericholic82 0]

Taker still users a flatliner variation (more like hassans) and orlando jordans finisher is a flatliner (also more like hassans), used to be called "Black Ice" when he was ajobber on velocity but lately has no name. Edge of course calls it the downward spiral. and scott steiner was using it as well in his wwe run. Seems to be the "new stunner/diamond cutter" where everyone copies it. at leats orton changed the rko to be different than the cutter or stunner (he basically uses one hand most of the time) Actually a fun fact is that the original Flatliner, back when Kanyon was Mortis, was a samoan drop off the second rope, but change dit to the new move when he became just simply Kanyon.

 

My opinion on finshers is this. Every wrestler who isn't an actual total jobber needs one. and they need to be ones that aren't so commonly used, cuz I hate when one guy uses a move its a match ender, and when other guys do it, it's a transistion move (like the DDT).

And they should all have a name (no not all should have overly dumb pun names but n ames nonetheless) and the announcers need to remember the names of said moves (Im looking at you JR). and the best ones are the ones that can be hit quickly, with a good setup to get the crowd pumped (sure an out of nowhere move can be fun, but when they see it coming the crowd can brace for it and thus get morte excited and pop even louder). and there should not be so many matches where guys are kicking out of finishers left and right.

 

I hope that made sense.

[zyn081 0]

I think that is 1 of the reasons Bret is so well loved. He had a string of moves that he used to run through, so the fans knew what to expect, but there were enough points in the chain to reverse the tide.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Credibility is the most important factor. If it doesn't finish people off, it's not a finisher.

 

Which is why Shamrock's Ankle Lock > Angle's Ankle Lock > Raven's Ankle Lock. Shamrock's Ankle Lock was a great finisher. As soon as he locked it in, you knew there was no escape for the guy. It was protected, because hell, even Michaels tapped to it (albeit outside of a match). Bret tapped to it. Vader tapped to it. I can't remember if Taker ever tapped, probably not. But 9/10 times, Shamrock applied the Ankle Lock and it was over. Plus it was a pretty 'swift' move, especially with the armbar takedown set-up. Where-as Angle telegraphs the move every time. Plus, it popped the crowd (important). And he could apply it from out of nowhere.

 

I'd take the Shamrock Ankle Lock and the Stunner as top finishers.

[Adam 0]

Jerichoholic, I disagree about your DDT comment, but I agree that at this point in time it is a transition move. Look back to Jake Roberts' and Ravens runs in WWF and ECW respectively, and the DDT was death. But I agree that now it is nothing more than a transition move, which kinda sucks, as Im a mark for the Evenflow.

[jwpeer 0]

I know it's not a finisher, but I think Batista does the best spinebuster I've ever seen. The way he sets it up it looks like death, that's probably the most brutal impact move based on looks alone. I mark out every time he nails a spinebuster.

I'm not a fan of powerbombs though, I just don't like the setup on them.

[DangerousDamon 0]

I've never really been big on someone having just ONE finisher that is just the end all and be all of a match. I think someone could have 2-3 moves that they could use to finish off an opponent, but when those moves don't work during a match, they could use a "Super" finisher that would end the match(sort of like the Burning Hammer).

[Epic Reine 0]

I like finishers that are devastating and can be hit with ease. I hate finishers that take too long to set up. I also hate when more than 2 wrestlers use the same finishers (Flatliner/Downward Spiral for instance) because it just takes away from a wrestler's personality. I like the RKO because now that Stone Cold and DDP are gone now, the move is protected and he uses a one armed variation of it.

[Jericholic82 0]

Jerichoholic, I disagree about your DDT comment, but I agree that at this point in time it is a transition move.  Look back to Jake Roberts' and Ravens runs in WWF and ECW respectively, and the DDT was death.  But I agree that now it is nothing more than a transition move, which kinda sucks, as Im a mark for the Evenflow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I do think the DDT is a great finisher, especially if its done well. It should be death, especially when they are dropped staright on their head liek Raven does it now.

 

right now the only death moves are really takers tombstone and trips pedigree (though I have seen more people kick out of the pedigree than takers tombstone) The RKO is close, but it couldnt beat Taker at Mania (but it was enough for JBL to beat Taker last week go figure)

[ChrisMWaters 0]

One finisher that I like nowadays, even though I don't get to see it much anymore due to the problems with TNA, is Abyss' Black Hole Slam.

 

The way he just lifts the guy up and drives him down LOOKS like it hurts.

 

Plus, for some sick reason, I like the way Don West would call it. "BLACK...HOLE...SLAM!"

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

The Western Lariat is the best finisher ever. It's so simple and easy to hit but looks absolutely DEADLY because of Hansen's size and the force he puts into it, not to mention the fact that almost no one ever kicks out of it. No other move is so closely identified with the wrestler who uses it; the whole time you're watching a Hansen match, you can't help but think "When will he hit the lariat?" It adds automatic suspense to every match he's in.

 

Plus, it's just a great looking move and can be hit from any position imaginable (check out his matches with Kobashi in 1993 to see what I mean.)