These sick motherfuckers

[Guest Fishyswa]

Why should anyone be "blamed" for airing this?

 

"Ever saw the movie Salo? Were you offended by it? See it and tell me it had no effect on you. Believe it or not but fantasy do create emotions in people. Shocker..."

 

So what? So because fantasy can invoke emotion, it has to be regulated by what's happening currently? That's bullshit.

 

"I dont know about you but to first sacrifice a man (Daivari) and celebrate him for it (thus making him a martyr - even Tazz called him that) and then have masked men choking Taker (as I see it a blatant try to build on IRL happenings as I've said before)."

 

Exactly, all they do is put out the peices and you connect the dots. To YOU it's a terrorist thing. To YOU it was a play off beheadings. To anyone not jumping to conclusions, it's an arab having his friends beat up his enemy.

 

"And they do it in the name os Islam (seeing as Hassan praised Allah in the end)"

 

So now because of his religion he's a terrorist? Do you not see what your saying?

 

"just like how people do percieve the 9/11 attacks for example (as a way of "promoting" extreme islam). Hassans gimmick is built on stereotypes, thats no secret."

 

Yes, and it's up to you to take those stereotypes to the next level. They haven't.

 

"That is the point of it as well. He is the stereotyped muslim. Therefore people will see him as an enemy of the USA and as a terrorist linked person."

 

Therefore YOU see him as an enemy of the USA. What the WWE puts out and how it's received are two different things.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

oh give up with that shit. People have been saying that bullcrap since it started.

 

Hassan is a heel. A stereotype, a muslim terrorist, used to capitalize on real life terrorists to build heat. That's what his character is, and has ALWAYS been presented, for the sole explicit purpose of getting the audience to boo.

 

The WWE didn't "present the character and let the audience decide" or "give him logical points", they're not "Making a statement about prejudice" or whatever other BULLSHIT JUSTIFICATION people spew out. If you can't see that, you are a fucking idiot who is defending "writers" that comic book writers and porn scripters laugh at.

 

Hey why don't you same folks enlighten us on the incredible depth and subtext of a Pokemon episode while you're at it.

[Black Lushus 0]

okay...now we're getting silly...at what point was Hassan displayed as being a terrorist? not in any segments I've seen...he's an arab america who hates other americans because they treat him and other arabs as the enemy simply because they're arab...and you know what, he's right, that shit happens a lot...he's a civil rights figure, not a goddamn terrorist...his fueds don't even involve terrorism, they involves a man trying to get respect, the respect he feels is not given to him because of his race...

[Guest Fishyswa]

Explain to me how they've made him into a terrorist?

 

This is like saying they're making Cena black by having him rap and wear throw back jersey's. They're doing nothing but playing off stereotypes.

 

If you can't explain otherwise, than you, are the fucking idiot.

[Guest Brian]

WWE is way too stupid to be offensive.

[cabbageboy 0]

Here's one question: Where exactly are they supposed to go with Hassan's character? His whole whiny gimmick of saying how oppressed he is is getting really tired. Look, he can't ever really be turned face...I mean who has ever heard of an Arab face? Fact is, a vaguely terrorist character will be a better heel than a whiny bitch heel who complains about being oppressed.

 

Wrestling has always done this stuff. In the late 40s and 50s you had the stereotypical German and Japanese heels, then later the Russian and Iranian heels. Hell during the Gulf War I remember on USWA they had a guy called Saddam Hussein. If it's that offensive, just turn the channel when the guy shows up.

[Black Lushus 0]

I don't think terrorism is the way to go...what they should be doing is, you know, LETTING the guy back up his words...he says he deserves all the shots a wrestler of any other race would get...give him those shots, let him win those shots, then let him brag about it...so far, all they've done is have him come out, brag and then eventually get his ass handed to him...blame WWE booking for painting themselves into a corner...

[Special K 0]

People wearing masks essentially cutting someone's throat? Anyone? At this point Vince could sponsor a show called 'The Sand People Suck *gookdarkypollack* hour' and everyone would defend it.

 

If you can't explain otherwise, than you, are the fucking idiot.

Dumbass.

[Guest Fishyswa]

He didn't cut his throat you fucking tool, he CHOKED HIM OUT.

 

You guys act like this is so clear cut, yet your bringing up shit that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Wake up.

[Special K 0]

With piano wire. Piano wire cuts your throat if you don't have magical zombie powers.

[Exslade ZX 0]

People wearing masks essentially cutting someone's throat? Anyone? At this point Vince could sponsor a show called 'The Sand People Suck *gookdarkypollack* hour' and everyone would defend it.

 

If you can't explain otherwise, than you, are the fucking idiot.

Dumbass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Essentially cutting someone's throat? Seriously, he choked the guy. The same way HHH choked Vince with the wiring on the floor, the same way Austin choked..well pretty much everyone. It's been done before, and because the guys in a mask shouldnt' make any difference.

 

Hell..Kane has done it with a chain before...while wearing a mask, is he a terrorist? No.

 

There are two sides to every story (or more) so everyone is either going to like it or not really care..or be offended by it. Everyone should just agree to disagree. Fact is, everyone for instance calling these guys terrorists ARE in fact what the gimmicks says, racist against Arab-americans. They're stereotyping off things such as his religion. The same way people do them IRL. Who cares if it's "playing off stereotypes" as someone said, you're the one connecting the dots.

 

With piano wire. Piano wire cuts your throat if you don't have magical zombie powers.

Well maybe Hassan's smart, and knows that's one of the only things that can take out a guy with magical zombie powers.

 

>_> (Yea, that statement was just me being an ass )

[Guest Fishyswa]

Was his throat cut? NO. Was he choked out? YES.

 

So please do tell how this relates to a beheading.

[TheInsane 0]

"I dont know about you but to first sacrifice a man (Daivari) and celebrate him for it (thus making him a martyr - even Tazz called him that) and then have masked men choking Taker (as I see it a blatant try to build on IRL happenings as I've said before)."

 

Exactly, all they do is put out the peices and you connect the dots. To YOU it's a terrorist thing. To YOU it was a play off beheadings. To anyone not jumping to conclusions, it's an arab having his friends beat up his enemy.

 

"And they do it in the name os Islam (seeing as Hassan praised Allah in the end)"

 

So now because of his religion he's a terrorist? Do you not see what your saying?

 

"just like how people do percieve the 9/11 attacks for example (as a way of "promoting" extreme islam). Hassans gimmick is built on stereotypes, thats no secret."

 

Yes, and it's up to you to take those stereotypes to the next level. They haven't.

 

"That is the point of it as well. He is the stereotyped muslim. Therefore people will see him as an enemy of the USA and as a terrorist linked person."

 

Therefore YOU see him as an enemy of the USA. What the WWE puts out and how it's received are two different things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not American and I'm not particulary fond of the US (especially not the politics). As I said before I actually agree with Hwhat Hassan has sais in many of his segments.

 

I like what metr0man said on this:

 

"Hassan is a heel. A stereotype, a muslim terrorist, used to capitalize on real life terrorists to build heat. That's what his character is, and has ALWAYS been presented, for the sole explicit purpose of getting the audience to boo."

 

I dont think he has always been presented as a terrorist though. Only on the last episode of SmackDown.

 

Besides I never said I considered him a terrorist beause of his religion. It was a piece of the puzzle. Let me explain:

 

* The stereotype of a terrorist in these days: Arab descent, martyrs and extreme islamists. (If this had been in the 90's maybe The Arabs and islam points would have been replaced by North Irish descent (IRA) and extreme christianity).

* They way WWE portrayed Hassan on SmackDown: Arab descent, martyr (ok that was Daivari) and muslim.

 

I dont think every muslim is a terrorist. I know several muslims and I dont think I have any thoughts like that. I'm talking about how WWE portray a character based on the stereotypes that are around us all the time. I recognize the stereotypes (heck if I believed in the stereotypical terrorist I wouldnt even sit here and write the word stereotypical as it indicates that its a wrong standpoint).

 

I still laugh about your point on fantasy as well. Fantasy is meant to create feelings in us (reality based or not). What else would it be good for?

 

And yes I do think you have to reconsider what you air (and thats is the networks fault as well) in regards to major world happenings (recently London and 9/11). You have to show respect for people who have suffered from whatever bad things have happened to them in such a major event that have shocked a whole country (or even more).

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

You people are thinking about this way too much. It was a shitty squash match and a retarded attempt afterward to get talk going. Once I saw the whole thing I realized it bored me like everything else they do. I'm moving on to piss on the next thing the WWE does, because at this point I'm as adept at riffing their shows as Michael J. Nelson.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

So the warning labels meant nothing?

[TheInsane 0]

Was his throat cut? NO. Was he choked out? YES.

 

So please do tell how this relates to a beheading.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Easy:

 

The circumstances of the whole segment (as mentioned before) as well as the fact that Vince couldnt ever air a beheading of a wrestler. It wouldnt be aired because its repulsive as people see wrestling as more real than a horror movie (which is also why people think its stupid to watch because it has a script). And he couldnt do a believable beheading anyway in a live setting such as a wrestling ring. And piano wire would actually behaed a person if used with actual force.

[Guest Fishyswa]

So by that logic guns should never appear in fantasy ever, because of all the people that have died or been horribly injured.

 

And no stories about infidelity either, many families who've been broken up because of it that would be reminded of the tragedy.

 

"I dont think he has always been presented as a terrorist though. Only on the last episode of SmackDown."

 

He wasn't presented as a terrorist on Smackdown. He was presented as an arab american who had masked allies attack his opponent. Where you take it from there is ON YOU, not the WWE.

[Angelus 0]

I can admit that the timing was absolutely awful .... But come on, this is just television, i guess people can make the difference between reality or a wrestling TV show

[Guest Fishyswa]

"The circumstances of the whole segment (as mentioned before) as well as the fact that Vince couldnt ever air a beheading of a wrestler. It wouldnt be aired because its repulsive as people see wrestling as more real than a horror movie (which is also why people think its stupid to watch because it has a script). And he couldnt do a believable beheading anyway in a live setting such as a wrestling ring. And piano wire would actually behaed a person if used with actual force."

 

So because he couldn't do a real beheading, and because something that could take a head off was used, it was meant to symbolize a beheading?! Are you serious?

[what 0]

A friend of mine is in hospital right now due to the terrorist attack, that's not fucking television. I don't find it funny when what she experienced is being made light of for entertainment purposes. It's not just television, it's real life being trivialised on television by insensitive pricks for jaded apologists like yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hahaahaha, you fucking guys are too much.

 

I'm sorry about what happened in London, it was very unfortunate. The terrorists isn't being portrayed as a hero on television. It's not being trivialized. They don't have any bombs but even if they did, so the fuck what? It's not like they're real terrorists. It's just a TV show, man.

[Darthtiki 0]

Why do you think Kurt Angle turned face in 2001?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude, check your history Angle was face well before 9/11. I know this because I was at the Raw w/ Austin Appreciation Night/Milk Bath which was the day after Summerslam '01 (Coincidentally, taped in the same venue where said bit in question occured).

 

The bottom line is no one saw these attacks coming on Monday except for the Islamofascist Fundamentalists who claimed responsibility for the attacks. I actually will commend the WWE and UPN for taking the time to at least run a scroll advising viewers of the situation.

 

In truth, I thought that the Hassan gimmick was bad from the first promo vignette. We all saw this coming. Until ratings, buyrates, and attendence is down to local public access, closed circuit, and indie show bingo hall levels respectively then the race bait gimmicks and horrendously crappy angles will still go on.

[TheInsane 0]

So by that logic guns should never appear in fantasy ever, because of all the people that have died or been horribly injured.

 

And no stories about infidelity either, many families who've been broken up because of it that would be reminded of the tragedy.

 

"I dont think he has always been presented as a terrorist though. Only on the last episode of SmackDown."

 

He wasn't presented as a terrorist on Smackdown. He was presented as an arab american who had masked allies attack his opponent. Where you take it from there is ON YOU, not the WWE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You always miss the point that it about how everything was presented. That is a big thing. If JBL had choked Meanie with wire it wouldnt have been the same thing. Its all about how everything was presented. Can you see the difference between what happened on SD and my scenario with JBL and the Blue Meanie?

 

No guns shouldnt be banned in movies (or fantasies) and cheating could be part of a WWE storyline even though it has destroyed many families. This is what I wrote (try to READ it sometime):

 

"And yes I do think you have to reconsider what you air (and thats is the networks fault as well) in regards to major world happenings (recently London and 9/11). You have to show respect for people who have suffered from whatever bad things have happened to them in such a major event that have shocked a whole country (or even more)."

 

 

So because he couldn't do a real beheading, and because something that could take a head off was used, it was meant to symbolize a beheading?! Are you serious?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dont mean that it was a symbol that was meant as a beheading only that it was obvious that the inspiration came from that disgusting footage of masked extremists beheading a soldier with a saw. Together with every other reference to terrorism (without actually mention the word "terror") it made for a sick and repulsive image.

[TheInsane 0]

Why do you think Kurt Angle turned face in 2001?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude, check your history Angle was face well before 9/11. I know this because I was at the Raw w/ Austin Appreciation Night/Milk Bath which was the day after Summerslam '01 (Coincidentally, taped in the same venue where said bit in question occured).

 

My bad then. Sorry about that. I think I proved my point with the other examples though.

[Guest Fishyswa]

So you don't care about individuals, just groups. If one person dies by a terrorist then it's fair game, but a lot of people, than it's not ok anymore. How does that make ANY sense?

 

"I dont mean that it was a symbol that was meant as a beheading only that it was obvious that the inspiration came from that disgusting footage of masked extremists beheading a soldier with a saw. Together with every other reference to terrorism (without actually mention the word "terror") it made for a sick and repulsive image."

 

There was no mention of any footage or any happening, YOU made the connection, without a real reason too. There was no saw, there was no attempted beheading, the word beheading wasn't even brought up. You saw a masked guy choking someone with a wire and jumped RIGHT to terrorism. Why? Because the guy orchestrating was muslim? Because he said something about Allah? Because they took diavari out in a traditional style? You do realize the whole connection comes down to race and ethnicity. You should really sit back and re-evaluate your thought process, it's kind of scary.

[bob_barron 0]

Hassan was supposed to be an American just like us, but he had a big mouth and was a whiny bitch.

 

Now he's acting like everything he said he wasn't- I don't like that part of the angle.

 

I have a problem with how they carried Daivari out like he was a martyr and how he was a "sacrafice." It was a stupid angle to begin with, and now they look even worse now.

[bob_barron 0]

There was no mention of any footage or any happening, YOU made the connection, without a real reason too. There was no saw, there was no attempted beheading, the word beheading wasn't even brought up. You saw a masked guy choking someone with a wire and jumped RIGHT to terrorism. Why? Because the guy orchestrating was muslim? Because he said something about Allah? Because they took diavari out in a traditional style? You do realize the whole connection comes down to race and ethnicity. You should really sit back and re-evaluate your thought process, it's kind of scary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what they were heavily implying and is what they wanted their audience to think. They know what people think when they see those images. WWE isn't totally innocent here.

[Dangerous A 0]

I've read all the posts here, and I think everything can be point-counter pointed. Yes, perhaps some people (including myself) are taking things too seriously. And yes, some people just chalk it up to just being TV. However, the one sentence that really stood out to me out of all the posts was...

 

 

One minute their supporting the troops, next they are trivialising terrorism for cheap heat.

 

 

No matter what side of the fence you are on, I am not sure you can dispute this statement. They have done 2 shows in Iraq to support the troops, yet have a character like Hassan out here doing what he does. We have real men and women from around the world fighting a war in Iraq and Afghanistan against a real threat. You can say they look at the masked men and just think, well, they are just masked men. But you've got blinders on if you don't think they are meant to symbolize terrorists. Plus, those masked men were on their knees in prayer mode with Hassan after the chokeout. Again, if they were meant to be just anonymous masked thugs, why are they on their knees praying? I had no choice but to watch it because I was there live and I had no warning.

 

Then again, it goes back to the snake biting the person who aids them story, cause this is what WWE is. A bunch of people who live in a bubble who will go to whatever lengths to appease the "Springer" demographic of their audience. Which is fine, I still begrudgingly watch. I just laugh when threads and such start to pop up about how wrestling doesn't get the "respect" it supposedly deserves in the mainstream.

[Toxxic 0]

Personally, as a 23 year-old the terrorists I grew up with in mainland Britain WERE the IRA, not Arabs. Terrorism is terrorism, it has no defining features beyond a crass disregard for human life.

 

On the other hand, you cannot watch TV without an understanding of social context unless you've been locked in a box for years. Hassan's first EVER words in the WWE were 'Since the attacks of 9/11...', showing that the biggest event of terrorism ever to occur in America was to be at least vaguely related to his character in some way. The character is clearly Islamic, like Al-Quaeda (and like millions of non-terrorists as well of course). The character also disapproves of American values. The character has stated that he will 'fight against' what he perceives as racism.

 

All well and good. Now; that fact that Hassan is portrayed as a heel (badmouths the popular wrestlers, cheats and whines quite apart from any political statements he might make) automatically suggests that his viewpoint is wrong. Therefore, his allegations of racism are, in the WWE's world, wrong. So, this bad guy wrestler will be 'fighting against' the values of an America that he wrongly believes is racist, and he is doing so from an Arab and Islamic background.

 

What method of fighting (and since his actions are perceived to be 'wrong', we're talking actual fighting rather than just political discussion) against American values that they believe to be evil is used by Islamic people of Arab descent? Well, since the attacks of 9/11 (and again, HE mentioned it first so it's obviously meant to be related to the character) the word 'terrorism' DOES spring to mind. OBVIOUSLY not every Arab-American is a terrorist. OBVIOUSLY every not every Muslim is a terrorist. But in this situation, it's what we might call circumstantial evidence that the Hassan character is meant to be at least loosely associated with terrorism.

 

Now, he comes out with a gang of men on Smackdown to attack his enemy. Fair enough, could just be some mates who don't want to be recognised. I haven't seen the segment, but I saw one fan pic and IIRC the men were in ski masks and camo gear. Camo gear is obviously of military derivation, no matter how often it's commonly used as casual wear these days. The fact that they were all dressed the same lends credence to the notion of a 'uniform', again of military origin. Ski masks... well, they COULD have just come in off the piste but this item of clothing also has a well-recognised connection to paramilitary groups. The piano-wire choking action... this is the point I'm least convinced on, but I can see how it COULD fit. Daivari carried out as a martyr certainly works, as it fits in the with the suicide bombers so well known in both the 9/11 attacks and every week in the Middle East.

 

Yes, normally it would be a jump to associate men in camo gear and ski masks, and one man being carried out as a martyr, with terrorism in the name of extreme Islam. HOWEVER, since Daivari is portrayed as sharing Hassan's religion, and most importantly of all they are BOTH associated with a man whom we have already established is meant to have at least a loose, subconcious connection with terrorism in the minds of the viewing public, I think it's a safe case to make that the men in ski masks and camo gear WERE meant to be portrayed as terrorists.

 

Given that Sky made 10 minutes of Raw disappear without trace (Diva Search 'cum-sucking gutter slut' incident), I'm surprised and a little offended that they didn't ditch this.

 

Also, for those who have talked about movies and how people don't get offended by them - YOU BET YOUR FUCKING LIFE that if a movie about terrorism had been scheduled on ANY British TV channel last night, it would have been axed and replaced with something else. The same goes for any drama featuring terrorism, it would have been postponed for AT LEAST a week, possibly more.

 

Thank you.

[Special K 0]

He HAS also made a throat slitting gesture before slapping on the clutch.

 

And before you say it, yes, that makes Benoit a terrorist too.

 

There was no mention of any footage or any happening, YOU made the connection, without a real reason too. There was no saw, there was no attempted beheading, the word beheading wasn't even brought up. You saw a masked guy choking someone with a wire and jumped RIGHT to terrorism. Why? Because the guy orchestrating was muslim? Because he said something about Allah? Because they took diavari out in a traditional style? You do realize the whole connection comes down to race and ethnicity. You should really sit back and re-evaluate your thought process, it's kind of scary.

 

Yeah, when I have a guy talking about terrorism, who comes out with people dressed as terrorists, who JUST HAPPEN to use a weapon evocative of throat-slitting, who uses a throat-slitting gesture, I think I know exactly what the fuck the WWE is going for. No one in this thread ACTUALLY thinks hassan is a terrorist (isn't he Italian?) but you've got to be kidding me that this is just a series of completely innocent coincedences on the WWE's part, and we're all racist for seeing what they're driving at.

[bob_barron 0]

Also, for those who have talked about movies and how people don't get offended by them - YOU BET YOUR FUCKING LIFE that if a movie about terrorism had been scheduled on ANY British TV channel last night, it would have been axed and replaced with something else. The same goes for any drama featuring terrorism, it would have been postponed for AT LEAST a week, possibly more.

 

ABC axed Reign of Fire, a movie about dragons terrorising London.