Band who reached their potential too early

[King Kamala 0]

Black Sabbath reached their peak with Paranoid (Although you could almost say any of their first four albums were their peaks.), the rest after their first four albums have been.........

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

One that hasn't been said before: METALLICA.

 

They reached their peak about 4 years into their career with Master of Puppets. Some could argue that Justice was better, or even Lightning, but they weren't even around for 5 years before reaching their peak, and everything since has just been redundant tripe (a few killer songs here and there, but not of the same calibre as their 80's material).

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

I think Tool might be a candidate, I quite like all their stuff but in focusing so much on moving forwards they often lose something.

 

PUSA (I still love the first two albums, maybe I'm just sentimental)

 

And on the Green Day front, my housemate had the new one on his computer, and it is the most okish stuff they've done in a fair few years. In places. All the singles they've released from it were crap, though.

 

The White Stripes' new album is utterly horrible, and Jack White sounds like a guy doing an impression of himself live these days, so they might qualify.

[cabbageboy 0]

The whole Sabbath argument is a misguided one. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage are both really awesome albums and showed the band going in some interesting directions. I'd take either of those over the muddy sounding Vol. 4, and I dare say I might take either over the debut (never cared for the 10 mins. of Iommi soloing, and the title track is a bit theatrical for my taste).

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

That's crazy talk. The debut Sabbath album contains the primordial soup of every genre of metal extant. The theatrical side, the grim nihilistic side, fast parts, slow parts, soloing, chugging, fantasy, satan..the list goes on. Perfect album, in my book. Its timing was also impeccable. Immediately after the lovefest of the late sixties and prior to the tackiness of the 70's and senseless excesses of the 80's pop music scenes.

 

Every successive album focused more on one thing or another. They completely blew their wad with Paranoid and the debut. Master of Reality through Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (on good days) are all landmark stuff. Sabotage has its moments, but it led to nothing else. Different directions, sure, but failed ones.

[snuffbox 0]

I think Tool might be a candidate, I quite like all their stuff but in focusing so much on moving forwards they often lose something.

 

 

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Lateralus, though the songs might have been just a shade below Aenima/Undertow, flowed better than anything theyve done so far.

 

Everybody has some really high expectations for the new record...and I dont think theyll dissapoint.

[Nighthawk 0]

Warning was's good as American Idiot. The two before that weren't great or terrible, but if they had a comeback album, that was it.

 

Throwing rap into the mix, LL Cool J. He fell apart in the 90s. Ice T as well.

[Gary Floyd 0]

My Bloody Valentine (there is no way they could have improved on "Lovelesss")

Portishead

Tricky

DJ Shadow

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm not saying Sabbath's debut album isn't a landmark milestone. It's just a difficult listen in some ways, especially the exhausting Warning with all the Iommi soloing. It's fun at first but in the end is FF material. The Satan stuff is hit or miss I think....NIB is still chilling and one of Sabbath's best songs, but the title song is campy.

 

Take a look at Sabotage: Hole in the Sky (awesome song), Symtom of the Universe (really awesome song), Megalomania (probably Sab's best prog type song), Thrill of It All (quite decent), Am I Going Insane (ok there's some synth here but it's catchy), The Writ (another awesome prog epic). It's just a matter of preference but I'll take this over the 1st album, though I do admit Sabbath got too into the prog stuff after Sabotage.

[Henry Spencer 0]

Which Sabbath album has Changes on it? Whichever one does is their worst, regardless of its other content.

[Guest Anticrombie]

That would be Vol. 4.

 

I guess Changes is kinda gay (especially Ozzy's duet with his daughter), but I enjoy it's place on the album. I like the contrast between Ozzy's sing-songy delivery and the eeriness of the mellotron in the background. I also like the way Changes drifts into FX, then jumps back with Supernaut. It's cool to listen to when I'm driving late at night.

 

Take a look at Sabotage

 

Supertzar is lame and overdone, and I don't like the strings in The Writ, but otherwise Sabotage is fine by me.

 

Also, The Thrill Of It All is much better than decent.

 

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On topic, I say Jane's Addiction; They release two awesome albums in Nothings Shocking and Ritual De Lo Habitual, disband at their height, and come back with the sub-par Strays.

[Adam 0]

I disagree about the Foos. The Color and the Shape had Everlong, My Hero, Monkey Wrench and Walking after You. The first record was Dave Grohl doing a bunch of little rocky energetic happy songs, it wasn't awesome, but it is still cool to listen to.

 

In Your Honor has some very good moments on both discs. I don't think the Foos have been up and down at all, they've been consistently good. Not great, but good.

 

As for RHCP, I watched all their old film clips today on the What Hits!? DVD, and I loved them, but not as much as Blood Sugar Sex Magik. That record just brought so much to the table. Of course it had Under the Bridge, but just about every other track was amazing. I don't think its right to say that they peaked early at all, they kinda peaked when they were supposed to, in the early nineties.

 

When John left they were just OK, then when he came back for Californication they were solid, but ever since Californication they've just been OK again. I think if they want to prove that they still have it, then this next record is going to have to be back to their old rap-rock style.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I'll admit that Supertzar is a silly theatrical song, it's probably the only thing on Sabotage I usually skip (that and the minor instrumental separating tracks 1 and 3). As far as The Writ goes, the strings and Ozzy's over the top delivery near the end is the sort of thing that's kept parodists happy for decades.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I think a lot of people miss the asides of sarcasm on Sabbath's self-titled. Listen to the delivery of "Please god help me" on the first track. The subject in that song doesn't want to be saved at all. That makes it ten times more evil than people assume. "NIB" has moments like that, too. "Your love for me has just got to be real.."

 

Every time I listen to that album I catch a new guitar line in "Warning," or notice the solidity of the rhythm section where I might not have before. In a genre it created, it's been mercilessly imitated and aped, yet nearly four decades after its release, still holds up as being fresh and creative. That's a motherfuckin' debut album.

[brighty 0]

Oasis.

 

GREAT first album, very good (and more commercial) second album - and then shit third album, shit fourth album, decent fifth and sixth albums.

[snuffbox 0]

Ill echo the Janes Addiction and Oasis mentions.

 

There seemed like a lot of promising 90s bands that fizzled out with the alt-movement after just one record or so(I am very partial to this era). Gin Blossoms, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Live, etc all dissapeared to the bar/club/fair circuit after recording some good tracks. Im sure Porno for Pyros could have made some more good music as well.

[King Kamala 0]

Michael Jackson reached his peak on Thriller, his second solo album ( I don't really count the solo albums he made while he was in the Jackson 5). Bad and Dangerous are both quite good albums though. History and Invincible on the other hand.....

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

When John left they were just OK, then when he came back for Californication they were solid, but ever since Californication they've just been OK again. 

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Am I the only person here that thought By the Way was a really good album both musically and vocally, with the exception of Keidas on "The Televison Song?"

[Slickster 0]

One that hasn't been said before: METALLICA.

 

They reached their peak about 4 years into their career with Master of Puppets. Some could argue that Justice was better, or even Lightning, but they weren't even around for 5 years before reaching their peak, and everything since has just been redundant tripe (a few killer songs here and there, but not of the same calibre as their 80's material).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'd say Metallica was just as good as Master of Puppets. Two entirely different-sounding albums, yes, but I really don't see where 'The Black Album' is weaker than Puppets. Both have their strengths and weaknesses; both have their anthems and their throwaway songs.

[snuffbox 0]

When John left they were just OK, then when he came back for Californication they were solid, but ever since Californication they've just been OK again. 

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Am I the only person here that thought By the Way was a really god album both musically and vocally, with the exception of Keidas on "The Televison Song?"

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No. By The Way is my favorite RHCP record.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Wire's first three albums are the best things ever, pretty much, so they've not come anywhere near them since. I like 2003's Send just fine, and admire their direction, keeping the simplicity of their soundscapes and structures but in a different medium. I've heard Colin Newman's new project, 'Githead' is shite, however.

[Annabelle 0]

Michael Jackson reached his peak on Thriller, his second solo album ( I don't really count the solo albums he made while he was in the Jackson 5). Bad and Dangerous are both quite good albums though.  History and Invincible on the other hand.....

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don't forget about OFF THE WALL MOTHERFUCKER

 

brilliance it is.

[Ravenbomb 0]

The Sex Pistols

[Guest Anticrombie]

Well they only released like one real album... which I do enjoy actually

 

How about Diamond Head, that was one hell of a band, but they turned to shit after their classic first album. Really tragic since they showed so much potential.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

One that hasn't been said before: METALLICA.

 

They reached their peak about 4 years into their career with Master of Puppets. Some could argue that Justice was better, or even Lightning, but they weren't even around for 5 years before reaching their peak, and everything since has just been redundant tripe (a few killer songs here and there, but not of the same calibre as their 80's material).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'd say Metallica was just as good as Master of Puppets. Two entirely different-sounding albums, yes, but I really don't see where 'The Black Album' is weaker than Puppets. Both have their strengths and weaknesses; both have their anthems and their throwaway songs.

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I think the Black Album is eternally weaker than Puppets. Song complexity, length, and how well-written they were is how I'm judging this (and Agent, I know you hate all things Metallica, so piss off, duder). Length-wise, they're about the same, with The Black Album having 4 more tracks than Puppets does. Let's compare them:

 

ANTHEMS

Puppets has "Battery," "Master of Puppets," and "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" as its anthems. The Black Album has "Enter Sandman," "Sad But True," "The Unforgiven," and "Nothing Else Matters." Everything else, really, is filler, with "Wherever I May Roam" coming close to being an anthem (I think it, lyrically, is one of the highpoints of the album, but musically is pretty damn filler). I'd give the edge to Puppets here, since all three songs are played by Metallica live at every concert, whereas "Enter Sandman" and "Sad But True" are the only two Black Album tunes that are always played live. Puppets 1, Black Album 0.

 

FILLER

Puppets has "The Thing That Should Not Be," "Disposeable Heroes," "Leper Messiah," "Orion," and "Damage, Inc." The only one song on the album that really doesn't fit is "The Thing That Should Not Be," as it's structure is awkward (an early sign of Metallica calming down after being the band that had something to prove), lyrics dull, and length too long (it's nearly 7 minutes long, IIRC, and should have been, realistically, only 4 or 5). The others are considered anthems by the Metallica die-hards, and "Damage, Inc." especially is a sing-along live. The Black Album has "Holier Than Thou," "Don't Tread On Me," "Through The Never," "Of Wolf And Man," "The God That Failed," "My Friend Of Misery," and "The Struggle Within." "Holier Than Thou" is a good song that just never got enough credit, and I'd honestly say that "My Friend Of Misery" is the best song on the whole album, but the others are just filler. "The Struggle Within" sounds like a b-side that was recorded during the Justice sessions and was never used, which in all likelihood it was, but the production of The Black Album took away the edge that could have been there, and it sticks out like a sore thumb (and definitely should not have closed the album). "Don't Tread On Me" has a good intro, but that's about it, "Through The Never" suffers the same fault, "Of Wolf And Man" has a nice feel during the chorus, "The God That Failed" isn't that bad (and probably another song that should have been a single but wasn't), and I've talked about the other two. 5/8 of Puppets could be considered filler, and 7/12 of The Black Album can be considered filler. The filler on Puppets, though, is of higher quality than the filler on The Black Album, so that gives us Puppets 2, Black Album 0.

 

RIFFING

I don't even really need to explain myself here. The Black Album is a collection of PERFECT riffs just structured wrong in the songs and, IMO, overproduced. Puppets has some good riffs of its own, notably in the anthems, but the other riffs are sorta generic metal of the time period. Puppets 2, Black Album 1.

 

SOLO'S

Ha. Puppets 3, Black Album 1.

 

DRUMS

Lars was banging on the skins like a man possessed for much of Puppets, even kicking out double-bass on quite a few songs, and actually showed some potential to become a GREAT drummer. On The Black Album he just slowed everything down, with his only stand out drumming on the intro to "The Struggle Within" (which is just marching drums). Puppets 4, Black Album 1.

 

BASS

Cliff was a God, and Jason was just very good but underutilized. Benoit to Lance Storm. Puppets 5, Black Album 1.

 

VOCALS

James' voice got better as he got older, as he started to learn how to actually sing as opposed to just let out a pretty girly scream. Puppets 5, Black Album 2.

 

LYRICS

Now, this is odd...because, in my eyes, James got better with lyrics as he matured. He's still not that great, but he does capture some raw emotion and DOES connect with Metallica's fanbase. "Sad But True" beats the shit out of everything on Puppets lyrically, save for maybe "Battery," but "The Unforgiven" and "Wherever I May Roam" help give the edge to the 1991 recording. Puppets 5, Black Album 3.

 

PRODUCTION

I don't like the production on The Black Album one bit. It seems TOO well-produced to really be as tremendous an album as it is, as I feel there needs to be a lot of raw sounds on any rock, metal, punk, etc. record. Puppets 6, Black Album 3.

 

IMPACT ON THE BAND'S CAREER

Puppets came out and went platinum (maybe even double-platinum, I forget) without Metallica having radio or MTV exposure. The Black Album was sold almost solely on Metallica's reputation of putting out good-great records in the 80's, the popularity of "One" in the late 80's, and the popularity of the "Enter Sandman" video in the weeks leading up to the album's release. Were it not for Puppets, Metallica would still have been supporting larger bands well into the release of The Black Album. Most metal critics and listeners will point to Puppets as the defining point of Metallica's career, whereas The Black Album alienated much of their original fanbase. Puppets 7, Black Album 3.

 

Now, I do like The Black Album quite a bit, but I don't think it's even close to any of the first four albums in quality or replay value.

[Red Baron 0]

Load is Metallica's best album.

 

As for bands reaching their peek too early, Creed. My Own Prision was a good album to listen to at times to times but Human Clay sucked the hard one.

[Epic Reine 0]

Load is Metallica's best album.

 

Uh, No.

[Red Baron 0]

Load compiled of some of Metallica's best work, whether they sold out. Sure its not fast but who's to say that Master of Puppets is their best album. AJFA is probably the worst production on an album IMO until St. Anger.

 

Musically Load has a lot of great riffs and hooks. Is it as complexed as Lightning or Puppets. No, but it was well structured and you can tell this album made the band matured sonically. Each song is played out to their length as a problem with most of their songs on every album previously.

 

While there are flaws in the album it self (Cure, Poor Twisted Me and Wasting My Hate) the album contains hidden gems such as The Outlaw Torn, Bleeding Me, Aint My Bitch that makes the album more enjoyable listening to it.

 

The only album that had this much replay value was Kill Em All basically Dave Mustaine wrote half of the shit on the album. Ride the Lightning had some decent songs on there, but half of it was filler, and Master of Puppets have some great songs as well, but it would be better if both albums were combined into one.

[Guest Anticrombie]

When I first started listening to Metallica in 1998 (yeah late bloomer), I didn't care much for their thrash roots. I liked Load and Black, and owned both albums alongside Reload. As time has passed, I've grown to despise both Load albums and Garage Inc. However, I have grown to greatly appreciate their 80's output alongside most of Black. Black at it's best is poetic and touching, and at its worst can be melodramatic and/or generic. But at it's worst, the Black album beats the rest of Metallica's 90's output into the ground. Load is full of boring country/dum dum rock. I don't care for fans who accuse bands of selling out, but Metallica's output after Black is just uninspiring.

 

But I find a lot of 90's hard rock/country rock/country to be boring as shit, so I guess it's not surprising I feel the way I do about Metallica's 90's output.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Load is Metallica's best album.

Man, I'm the least metal person on this board and even I know you're wrong.