Why is Cena.....

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I didn't know you needed to live the gimmick to use it.

 

Also, you'd have an argument here, except he's over. He's more over than anyone else right now. So all your points are moot, till the rest of the millions of people don't give a damn about him anymore. Till then, suck it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He is very over and does sell a ton of merchandise. For those reasons, I can't fault the WWE for taking the chance at making him the guy.

 

However, you know who else was way over and sold a ton of merchandise, but had a ridiculous gimmick and couldn't work.... the Ultimate Warrior, who bombed big time as champ. If you ever have time, check out the message boards at Wrestling Classics and see how many long time fans tuned out for good because of his run.

 

Overall, they just need to be careful with a champion like this who can be so polarizing. Remember the pop Christian got when he called Cena "Marky Mark"? That's not a good sign.

[CanadianChick 0]

Maybe the whole Y2Cheap thing was used so, during this feud at least, Jericho can have a heel chant going for him? Because "Jericho Sucks" is a whole *4* syllabols, and we don't want to confuse anyone.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I just figured cheap was 'street' or whatever it is Johnny is for being a sellout. Jericho keeps talking up his success, mentioning fame and money, which makes him 'cheap'. Where as John is doing his thing (or thang, if you will) for his fans, which makes him 'real'.

 

That's what I took it as.

[Guest news_gimmick]

....

[Jericholic82 0]

Well the hilarious thing about Cena looking like a suburban wigger that isn't from the street is that, well, that's true.  I mean the guy is from a suburb of Boston, isn't he?  I'm not sure where W. Newbury is but it hardly sounds like the guy is from Compton or East St. Louis.  MA is associated with bluebloods, Irish drunks, and paranoid Red Sox fans.  It's not exactly a place to be from if you want thug street cred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was just telling my friend that while watching RAW, Hell I'm more street than Cena (I'm white, but am from the mean streets and ghettos of Yonkers, NY-and Cena has probably never even seen the projects excpet on TV-So I guess that gives me even more street cred than rich suburb guy Cena but I digress), despite the fact that I don't try to act like a "wigger" as you put it. In fact I am rather soft-spoken and I don't dress all hip-hopish. But at least I know the street. lol I'm rambling here I know.

 

Though I won't hate too much on Cena since he is over with the people and thats what matters,he sells merchandise and is as close to a draw as we have seen lately. Plus he's Italian so I have to give him a break

 

However since he's feuding with my guy, I will hate him, at least untill Summerslam, when he loses the title to THE PARAGON OF VIRTUE.

 

Yea right I must be delusional.

[iggymcfly 0]

Yeah, I think we all know that Jericho's been buried too much to have a legitimate shot at Summerslam, especially with the dearth of main event faces available on Raw right now.

 

At this point, I'll be perfectly happy to see Cena drop the belt to HBK at Unforgiven or Survivor Series. Then, maybe, Shawn could feud with a newly turned face Kurt Angle for a couple months before eventually having a title vs. title match at Wrestlemania with the real main event, Rob......Van.......Dam.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm actually kinda hoping they do a non finish to the inevitable Carlito/RVD match. As in RVD wins by DQ and Carlito retains, etc. There's a lot of potentially good matches for RVD and Carlito is NOT one of them. RVD/HBK could work now since HBK is a heel (before they tried it face/face). RVD/Angle is one of the better mini feuds that never quite became a major feud. RVD/Shelton is a good potential matchup too.

 

If RVD is booked to not be a total jobber he'll get more over with the crowd than Cena. Being from the mean streets of Battle Creek, RVD has that street cred, yo. :-P

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I ate at an IHOP in Battle Creek once. Delicious.

[humongous2002 0]

Yeah, I think we all know that Jericho's been buried too much to have a legitimate shot at Summerslam, especially with the dearth of main event faces available on Raw right now.

 

At this point, I'll be perfectly happy to see Cena drop the belt to HBK at Unforgiven or Survivor Series. Then, maybe, Shawn could feud with a newly turned face Kurt Angle for a couple months before eventually having a title vs. title match at Wrestlemania with the real main event, Rob......Van.......Dam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the real world choosing RVD as your main guy at this time would make a lot of sense, but in WWE's bizarro world they choose a stale green wrestler to be their flag bearer. Nothing against Cena since I do agree with the fact that he's over enough to be a short term champion, if he doesn't step it up to another level to be consider a long term champ then the fans will eventually turn on him .

[zyn081 0]

I just realized its been a while since we had a Cena-bashing thread.

 

If that means people have been storing up their Cena hated for a while, so this should get good....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You damn skippy. That white boy 50 cent jerry springer wannabee took the title off da man.

 

While it's not saying much, Cena could've done worse.

 

At least he hasn't called Jericho "Y-2-Gay" yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank god for cheap. Cena would have just sunk lowere even farther.

 

In 5 years, people are gonna go "why did I cheer Cena and boo Jericho again?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which is very sad.

 

(Angle=Hart Foundation, Benoit =Steiners).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didnt get what you meant by this.

 

Actually I disagrre with this. The titles should be used to a) move a person from one card to another (i.e. Christian gets the title and moves from Mid-Card to true Main Eventer) or b) to get somebody over. If a person is already over and in there card there is no reason they need the Title. And the ones that don't need itand continue to have it eventually turn to it like a crutch and actually come to depend on it. And when they finally lose it no longer know to stay over (Ala Orton) Or worse yet being the Title holder becomes your gimmick (Paging Mr. Lavesque McMahon)

 

I disagree, but I think our points are interrelated.

 

(A) First, I don't think titles should be used to make someone a main eventer. At least not the main titles. I think a person needs to have a feud that gets them over to the point where the fans want to see them win the tile, or for heels, makes it believeable that they could be a threat.

 

(B) The thing is, to get someone over, the title has to be on someone who is over. The feud is what gets people over, not the belt. If you feud with someone who's over, your crowd reaction is greater, fans pay attention to you, and you get more over. So as long as Cena jobs to someone other than HHH, there will probably be more interest in the new champ.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. A title should be used to intensfying a feud. You can have feuds just because you have the title and I want it and you can have feuds whereby its over some scrap and the title catches the eye as form of payback.

 

I'm actually kinda hoping they do a non finish to the inevitable Carlito/RVD match.  As in RVD wins by DQ and Carlito retains, etc.  There's a lot of potentially good matches for RVD and Carlito is NOT one of them.  RVD/HBK could work now since HBK is a heel (before they tried it face/face).  RVD/Angle is one of the better mini feuds that never quite became a major feud.  RVD/Shelton is a good potential matchup too.

 

If RVD is booked to not be a total jobber he'll get more over with the crowd than Cena.  Being from the mean streets of Battle Creek, RVD has that street cred, yo.  :-P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(1) Theyve used that tatic this week on RAW with the Countout.

 

(2) RVD/Angle was very mini, more of a sidestep look at me very quickly cause youll miss it feud.

[zyn081 0]

For all those fanbays of the non-ring talent crowd licker John Cena, basing your arguement on the fact that he deserves the title cause he gets massive pops is pretty redundant and I have a few words to deflate your ballon arguement:

 

(1) Matt FREAKIN Hardy

 

(2) The Immortal Hollywood Hulk Hogan

[Brett Favre 0]

1) Matt Hardy only got that pop now for the obvious

2) Even though those pops aren't even close to Cenas, he's too old.

[Guest Brian]

First off, neither of those guys have proven to hold onto those pops. Matt, they are currently testing in what should be a pretty high-profile angle with Edge, though we don't have any idea yet how much mileage they can get out of him or the angle. And that's only going to get tested with time. Hogan has some short-term drawing ability, but it is very limited and very circumstantial. Plus, he's old and far past his prime (both physically and money-wise).

[Just John 0]

For all those fanbays of the non-ring talent crowd licker John Cena, basing your arguement on the fact that he deserves the title cause he gets massive pops is pretty redundant and I have a few words to deflate your ballon arguement:

 

(1) Matt FREAKIN Hardy

 

(2) The Immortal Hollywood Hulk Hogan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How about Cena's over and is likely to stay over and can consistently wrestle a full schedule?

 

1. Matt wouldn't get the same pops if he came in and started attacking Kurt Angle or HHH. As much as the 'net hates him, Edge is just as responsible for getting this feud as over as it is (though maybe not in a good way).

 

2. Hogan will always be over, but there's no way he can wrestle enough to keep the title, nor would he help build for the future, what with being 52 and all. Remember Hogan's last title reign?

[Guest Brian]

I've actually been really surprised in the last few days by the amount of blind apologizing for a company that hates their fans and the amount of hate heaped on Cena.

[Angle-plex 0]

Well the hilarious thing about Cena looking like a suburban wigger that isn't from the street is that, well, that's true.  I mean the guy is from a suburb of Boston, isn't he?  I'm not sure where W. Newbury is but it hardly sounds like the guy is from Compton or East St. Louis.  MA is associated with bluebloods, Irish drunks, and paranoid Red Sox fans.  It's not exactly a place to be from if you want thug street cred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

West Newberry is actually a pretty nice area, something everyone I watch RAW with jokes about when Cena comes out. There are some shitty Boston suburbs though (I'm supposedly from the worst Boston suburb around, and even I wouldn't consider myself a "thug").

[cabbageboy 0]

The RVD/Angle pseudo feud was a bit more important than given credit. It was that little mini feud that to me seriously hurt Angle's chances at ever being a top level face. RVD at that point was a heel in the Alliance (albeit cheered like mad) and the crowd responded to Van Dam more than Angle whenever they had a match. It was also the zenith of the time when RVD was busting people open left and right. Who could forget Kurt being left in a bloody mess in the SMDN match that gave Austin his title shot by proxy? I guess quite a few people.

 

As far as Cena goes, he's like a more mainstream version of The Truth. Actually the Truth would have more street cred (he's actually black and doing the rapper thing, which helps). And frankly Cena's title run will likely end up similar.

[Brett Favre 0]

Well the hilarious thing about Cena looking like a suburban wigger that isn't from the street is that, well, that's true.  I mean the guy is from a suburb of Boston, isn't he?  I'm not sure where W. Newbury is but it hardly sounds like the guy is from Compton or East St. Louis.  MA is associated with bluebloods, Irish drunks, and paranoid Red Sox fans.  It's not exactly a place to be from if you want thug street cred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

West Newberry is actually a pretty nice area, something everyone I watch RAW with jokes about when Cena comes out. There are some shitty Boston suburbs though (I'm supposedly from the worst Boston suburb around, and even I wouldn't consider myself a "thug").

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't consider the suburbs dangerous. Even then, just because you live in the worst suburb, doesn't mean you're automatically a thug.

[Guest RadioBurning]

And the Road Dog entertaining??  When was this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To certain demographics, I believe he was, although not necessarily memorable. I must have been in 4th or 5th grade when he was around, and although I can't remember a single match of his, I always loved his promos and the "Oh you didn't know?" theme song (which my band actually uses to open our sets some of the time).

 

I don't know whether it's due to his bigger push or not, but Cena certainly has more appeal than Road Dogg, including a better physique and heavy poppin' signature spots.

 

Also, what exactly were Road Dogg matches like? I was too young at that point to remember now, although I believe he did Shake, Rattle & Roll and the Pumphandle Slam.

[slimm44 0]

There's people who talk about it, and people who be about it is Cena's motto and I think he's calling Jericho cheap because he brings up past title wins and accomplishments instead of being a champion.

[Guest FoodStampGuru]

I get the impression they were afraid the crowd would turn on Cena if it got to be a straight Jericho v Cena angle. Thats why they threw Bischoff into it and now have Jericho kissing Bischoff's ass. Cheap Heat. I'm actually looking forward to Triple H coming back and killing all of Cena's heat and sending him to the midcard where he belongs.

[Dangerous A 0]

Let me talk a little about all this pop business.

 

First off, Hogan is over, Hogan can pop a crowd, but he is not a draw. Cena is. Difference is Hogan gets the respect pop. He pops whoever is there. He knows how to work a crowd and get them to react to any little thing he does because he's a legend. Problem for Hogan is while people in the arena go nuts for him, it doesn't mean they want to spend money seeing him wrestle or go to shows because of him. Hogan pops the people who are there, whether it's 10 or 10,000 people in attendance.

 

Thing with Cena is, a lot of the people in attendance are there to see him in particular. And there are more of those people than there are for fans of, say, a midcard guy like Regal. You can tell not just by the reaction, but merchandise sold at shows. Cena shirts and blow up hands (sort of like the old Hogan foam fingers) are all over the place in the arenas. More people go to house shows Cena is advertised on because he is a decent draw. Cena's problem is his in ring. As I've heard, he recently came out to San Fran about a month, month and a half ago for a house show. The show drew something like 3-4 thousand more than the previous time WWE cam to SF. Thing is, Cena stunk up the joint really bad in the ring. The question is how many fans were let down by Cena having a shitty match to where he may have hurt the territory for next time he comes into SF? That is where bad in ring hurts a top guy.

 

On a personal note, I think they put Bischoff in the Cena-Jericho mix because they have zero faith in Jericho being able to be a credible heel on his own.

[zyn081 0]

The RVD/Angle pseudo feud was a bit more important than given credit.  It was that little mini feud that to me seriously hurt Angle's chances at ever being a top level face.  RVD at that point was a heel in the Alliance (albeit cheered like mad) and the crowd responded to Van Dam more than Angle whenever they had a match.  It was also the zenith of the time when RVD was busting people open left and right.  Who could forget Kurt being left in a bloody mess in the SMDN match that gave Austin his title shot by proxy?  I guess quite a few people.

 

As far as Cena goes, he's like a more mainstream version of The Truth.  Actually the Truth would have more street cred (he's actually black and doing the rapper thing, which helps).  And frankly Cena's title run will likely end up similar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IMHO RVD wasnt a heel at the time. He was avoiding fights and cheating to win for example. Angle lost his cred to doing and saying very stupid things. Angle is not supposed to be funny but a wrestling machine. Dont knock The Truth

 

I get the impression they were afraid the crowd would turn on Cena if it got to be a straight Jericho v Cena angle. Thats why they threw Bischoff into it and now have Jericho kissing Bischoff's ass. Cheap Heat. I'm actually looking forward to Triple H coming back and killing all of Cena's heat and sending him to the midcard where he belongs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL. That would be hillarious if the crowd were to shit on Cena. Its sad how they dont trust Jericho as a face with the title or as a credible heel.

 

My comment relating to Matt and Hogan got the expected response response to further my point. You dont just put the title on somebody cause they are over. It would be really bad to put it on Matt or Hogan just because of this.

 

Cena CANT work in the ring, Cena CANT tell a story in the ring, Cena HAS to be carried, Cena is currently VERY BORING on the mike. He is just plain vanilla. I just fast forward his matches or switch channels when hes on. He RUINED THE WWE Championship for fucks sake. He played a good heel but since he cant work or carry someone, he will never be a credible champion as a heel.

[Guest Brian]

If you thought you got the responses you expected, then you didn't read any of the responses.

[zyn081 0]

If you thought you got the responses you expected, then you didn't read any of the responses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes I did. You just dont put the belt on Matt or Hogan (or Bob Holly) cause they are over. And IMHO it shouldnt be any different with Cena.

[Brett Favre 0]

No you didn't. If you did, you'd see the difference in overness, and why it would be smart to put the belt on Cena than on either Hogan or Matt. Not to mention that you're just one fan compared to thousands of fans who will sit through a Cena promo because they don't find him boring or bland, like you do. You think your hate is viewed by most of the WWE's fans, but it's not, so quit it.

[Guest Ransome]

Yes I did. You just dont put the belt on Matt or Hogan (or Bob Holly) cause they are over. And IMHO it shouldnt be any different with Cena.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since you apparently haven't read it, I'll repeat Just John's point: Matt Hardy may be popular, but that popularity will only be applicable in a feud against Edge (and Lita, by extension) and will disappear once Matt Hardy feuds with anybody new. Hulk Hogan's pops are more of a 'respect' pop that one would expect for a legend, rather than a pop for anybody a crowd would pay to see wrestle on a consistent basis. In other words, neither of their pops, loud as they may be, indicate that Hardy or Hogan ought be winning world titles. If you can't see that these kinds of 'overness' are distinct from the pops that John Cena is receiving, then I'm not suprised that you've seemingly missed other people's posts in this thread outlining these points.

[zyn081 0]

Am I entitled to dislike John Cena? Yes I am. The fact that Cena is over cant hide the fact that he cant work and cant carry somebody. I personally prefer Cena as a heel, but a heel has to lead a match, something which Cena hasnt shown that he can do. You cant deny that he a very weak moveset. HBK gets loud pops which are not respect pops. Everybody shouts you suck at Angle. Jericho is over and is getting nothing of a push like Cena is. What do you watch wrestling for? The promos or the actual matches. I enjoy the soap opera part of it, but I watch it for the matches. And yes, he has got boring. He had like 3 months of promos which the climax of it was calling the other wreslter gay or making a reference to nuts. Getting over with the crowd does not justify you as being the WWE Champion.

[Just John 0]

Am I entitled to dislike John Cena? Yes I am. The fact that Cena is over cant hide the fact that he cant work and cant carry somebody. I personally prefer Cena as a heel, but a heel has to lead a match, something which Cena hasnt shown that he can do. You cant deny that he a very weak moveset. HBK gets loud pops which are not respect pops. Everybody shouts you suck at Angle. Jericho is over and is getting nothing of a push like Cena is. What do you watch wrestling for? The promos or the actual matches. I enjoy the soap opera part of it, but I watch it for the matches. And yes, he has got boring. He had like 3 months of promos which the climax of it was calling the other wreslter gay or making a reference to nuts. Getting over with the crowd does not justify you as being the WWE Champion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think anyone here is saying Cena is the best choice, as I'm sure many here would like to see Jericho or Angle holding the belt. But the fact is having someone who is incredibly over holding the title is generally good business. It creates interest in the title, title feuds, and draws in the casual fan. I found this part of your post particularly interesting...

 

The fact that Cena is over cant hide the fact that he cant work and cant carry somebody.

 

There was a guy in the 80's like that... Hulk Hogan, I think. Good thing they never let that guy hold a title

 

You need to realize that the majority of the PAYING fanbase does like John Cena, and that in business terms, WWE is doing the right thing by keeping the belt on him. If the fans buy his merchandise or watch shows that he's on, Vince would be an idiot to NOT keep him in the spotlight.

[Angle-plex 0]

I don't like Cena at all, yet I am not opposed to him being champion. He's an over character, and by being an over characters it enhances his matches. It makes the matches more exciting and interesting. As over with the crowd as Cena is (or was, if he keeps doing these lame Y2Cheap promos), he should probably be champion.

 

And Hogan could work, brother. Especially next to a guy like Cena.