Campaign 2008

[The Niggardly King 0]

I know its used in a lot of food products, but somehow I think we'll manage if for some reason there's a corn shortage.

 

No, we ain't. We gonna be retarded 'bout this like da Irish and their potatoes all them years ago.

[EricMM 0]

I can't believe the guy from the party of Bush (son of a President) and McCain (son of an Admiral) get to call Obama (son of a money-pressed-at-times single mother) elitist.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

The Obama "general campaign" has a decidedly different aura/feel to it. During the primaries, I sorta bought the Hillary argument that he wasn't going to be a good general candidate because he's not tough enough at politics. I'm actually impressed with the campaign so far.

 

Ditching public funding (basically ignoring his earlier vow) was a great move, because it was a "flip flop" that nobody was going to care about but the extra money helps immensely, it was calculated for maximum benefit and limit harm. His poll ratings have gone up, even during this pretty blatant "hypocrisy". It's smart politics, I also thought the president seal thing was hilariously brazen and actually a little creative.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Obama thinks child rapists should get the death penalty. I don't know if I agree with that

 

Why? What is the benefit of letting someone like that live? I believe that if someone allows themselves to devolve to the level of an animal, they should very well be euthanized like a dangerous animal would be.

 

 

Personally, I think life in jail without possiblity of parole is a lot more of a punishment than a quick, painless death. To me, the arguement isn't whether or not child rapists deserve to die- they do- but whether or not its more of a punishment. Why should they get the easy way out? Life in jail for a child molestor is notoriously awful ( and it wouldn't shock me if this Patrick Kennedy has already had a taste of his own medicine). I'm willing to bet he would probably welcome death at this point.

 

Ian Huntely is actually a good example of this. The guy knows he's going to be in jail forever, and he's tried unsuccessfully to kill himself several times. But there's this feeling of satisfaction and national justice that the guy is rotting in a jail cell when all he wants to do is die.

[Jingus 0]

a quick, painless death.

It's sometimes not so quick or painless. The electric chair and gas chamber are both infamous for often, shall we say, not getting it right on the first try. Lethal injection is better, but even there the cocktail of chemicals they inject are designed more to paralyze the subject so that they don't upset the viewing audience, and less to actually kill them instantly.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

As far the the chair and gas chamber are concerned, in America at least, I think the prisoner gets a choice between that or lethal injection now. And I have to assume most of them go for the lethal injection. In this case, the man was facing lethal injection.

[NoCalMike 0]

*snickers* @ Karl Rove attempting to paint Obama as elitist......

[spiny norman 0]

Can I snigger at all the Obama supporters here trying to justify all of his policy stances, even when, such as now, he's completely wrong?

 

You can support somebody without still supporting them to the absolute, you know.

[At Home 0]

nigger

 

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Can I snigger at all the Obama supporters here trying to justify all of his policy stances, even when, such as now, he's completely wrong?

 

You can support somebody without still supporting them to the absolute, you know.

 

Which stances are you actually referring to here?

 

Personally, no, I don't agree with all his stances. I just figure he represents a better chance to actually make positive changes in this country after the last eight years, more so than John McCain.

[spiny norman 0]

Which stances are you actually referring to here?

 

Namely his favouring the death penalty for child rapists, which most of the people here seem to have tried to defend. However, given it's something that does seem an anomaly in his political beliefs, I don't find it particularly likely that it is likewise an anomaly in the political beliefs of those who support him.

 

Truthfully, such a suggestion is pretty fucked up, as far as I can see it.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I think you'd find that most people would wish bad things to happen to child rapists, I don't see how that makes anyone standing by Obama no matter what he says.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Obama sucks for voting for the FISA bill the other day.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Yeah, I was let down by that too. It's not something that's going to make me turn around and support McCain though.

[SuperJerk 0]

Can I snigger at all the Obama supporters here trying to justify all of his policy stances, even when, such as now, he's completely wrong?

 

You can support somebody without still supporting them to the absolute, you know.

Oh, there you had to go and drag common sense into this! Geez!

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm not the biggest Obama supporter in the world, but I'll vote for him in the fall. But for the McCain supporters out there I have to ask: Why vote for him? Just hate Democrats in general? Refuse to vote for the black guy? Seriously think McCain is going to do any sort of decent job if he's elected?

 

McCain being elected would be a fiasco for this country. Regardless of what he does the Democrats are going to squash the Republicans in the House and Senate races, so McCain would be facing the most hostile Congress in history and all the Democrats would view him as a joke and would refuse to work with him. There is zero chance of McCain being a decent president, even if he somehow stole this thing he'd just be a 4 year lame duck until Hillary squashed him in 2012. So why bother?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

 

This is the worst political ad I've ever seen (for Sen. John Cornyn, who's running for reelection in TX).

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

 

This is the worst political ad I've ever seen (for Sen. John Cornyn, who's running for reelection in TX).

Oh man.

 

That is awesome.

 

Thanks for the laughs and good times.

[spiny norman 0]

I think you'd find that most people would wish bad things to happen to child rapists, I don't see how that makes anyone standing by Obama no matter what he says.

 

No doubt it's a terrible crime.

 

However, John F. Kennedy (a liberal) began phasing out the death penalty for any non-murder crimes. The Supreme Court placed a ban on capital punishment for child rape, with the opposition in the Court coming from its four conservative Justices.

 

Now Obama (a liberal) is coming out on the side of those conservative Justices. It is a stance that is in opposition to the general liberal position.

 

Therefore, I find it a little hard to believe that so many people here who very vocally support Obama would also support his position on this. It comes across, to me, as though they are just going along with whatever he says and blindly agreeing with it.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Supporting the death penalty for child rapists isn't really a make-or-break election year issue. You're really reaching on this one.

[Jingus 0]

I'm not the biggest Obama supporter in the world, but I'll vote for him in the fall. But for the McCain supporters out there I have to ask: Why vote for him? Just hate Democrats in general? Refuse to vote for the black guy? Seriously think McCain is going to do any sort of decent job if he's elected?

WHY R PEOPLE REPPUBLIKKKANS? THAT'S SO ST00PID!

 

You could start by asking the 50 million people who voted for Bush in 2000, and the 62 million who did so in 2004. Lots of people agree with Republican policies, ya know.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Obama thinks child rapists should get the death penalty. I don't know if I agree with that

 

Why? What is the benefit of letting someone like that live? I believe that if someone allows themselves to devolve to the level of an animal, they should very well be euthanized like a dangerous animal would be.

 

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal yesterday signed the “Sex Offender Chemical Castration Bill” hours after the Supreme Court overturned that state’s law allowing capital punishment for child rapists. It “provides that on a first conviction of aggravated rape, forcible rape, second degree sexual battery, aggravated incest, molestation of a juvenile when the victim is under the age of 13, or an aggravated crime against nature, the court may sentence the offender to undergo chemical castration. On a second conviction of the above listed crimes, the court is required to sentence the offender to undergo chemical castration.”

 

L O haha L

 

I bet castration is cheaper than execution anyway. Probably will save the state some money and they wont have to worry about em being multi time repeat offenders.

 

[At Home 0]

There will be a sharp upturn in "creepy dry-humping" related offenses.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I think you'd find that most people would wish bad things to happen to child rapists, I don't see how that makes anyone standing by Obama no matter what he says.

 

No doubt it's a terrible crime.

 

However, John F. Kennedy (a liberal) began phasing out the death penalty for any non-murder crimes. The Supreme Court placed a ban on capital punishment for child rape, with the opposition in the Court coming from its four conservative Justices.

 

Now Obama (a liberal) is coming out on the side of those conservative Justices. It is a stance that is in opposition to the general liberal position.

 

Therefore, I find it a little hard to believe that so many people here who very vocally support Obama would also support his position on this. It comes across, to me, as though they are just going along with whatever he says and blindly agreeing with it.

 

I can't speak on behalf of all those who share the label of "liberal" but personally I don't just open a playbook of what every liberal position is or should be and strive to match it. I'm not opposed to the death penalty for child rapists, but if they spend their life in prison, that would be good enough for me too.

 

And it doesn't always work out that way. I have a former relative (married into the family) who kidnapped a six year old girl, raped her, taped it, tried to sell it on the internet, and got busted. He's getting out of prison after only ten years. What the fuck is up with that shit? Not even life in prison.

 

 

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

The Obama "general campaign" has a decidedly different aura/feel to it. During the primaries, I sorta bought the Hillary argument that he wasn't going to be a good general candidate because he's not tough enough at politics. I'm actually impressed with the campaign so far.

 

Ditching public funding (basically ignoring his earlier vow) was a great move, because it was a "flip flop" that nobody was going to care about but the extra money helps immensely, it was calculated for maximum benefit and limit harm. His poll ratings have gone up, even during this pretty blatant "hypocrisy". It's smart politics, I also thought the president seal thing was hilariously brazen and actually a little creative.

 

I dont get how people can just cast aside the flip flop on public financing. He's also flip flopping on the telecom immunity issue. Its been about a month since he got the nomination and he's flip flopped on two issues already. He's at least getting flack over the telecom issue which to me at least shows he's not got the party wrapped around his finger but the telecom immunity issue isn't a big enough issue to make that much of a difference in the end..but it is a start.

 

In fact, the article I linked to is pretty good..

 

From the beginning, Barack Obama's special appeal was his vow to remain an idealistic outsider, courageous and optimistic, and never to shift his positions for political expediency, or become captive of the Inside-the-Beltway intelligentsia, or kiss up to special interests and big money donors.

 

In recent weeks, though, Obama has done all those things.

 

He abandoned public campaign financing after years of championing it. Backed a compromise on wiretap legislation that gives telecom companies retroactive immunity for helping the government conduct spying without warrants. Dumped his controversial pastor of two decades — then his church — after saying he could no more abandon the pastor than abandon his own grandmother.

 

He said he wouldn't wear the U.S. flag pin because it had become a substitute for true patriotism, then started wearing it. Ramped up his courtship of unions. Shifted from a pledge to protect working-class families from tax increases to a far more expensive promise not to raise taxes on families that earn up to $250,000 a year. Turned to longtime D.C. Democratic wise men to run his vice-presidential search and staff his foreign-policy brain trust.

 

Presidential candidates often tack toward the center after securing their party's nominations. But all this tactical repositioning by Obama suggests that he's a more complex, pragmatic and arguably more opportunistic politician than the fresh face of "change we can believe in" that he presented during the primary season.

 

in other words, he's like every other politician known to man.

 

Also, the article states that Obama was for the death penalty if applied to child rapists but against it if applied to "gang offenses". Gee...

[spiny norman 0]

I can't speak on behalf of all those who share the label of "liberal" but personally I don't just open a playbook of what every liberal position is or should be and strive to match it.

 

No, I'm not saying you should adhere to a generalised concept of liberal policy. All I am saying is that I find it questionable that so many Obama supporters (who presumably are liberal themselves) ALL take a stance that is inconsistent with the "playbook".

 

Supporting the death penalty for child rapists isn't really a make-or-break election year issue. You're really reaching on this one.

 

I never said it was, I just questioned the defence of Obama's position on it from most people here. Given McCain said the same, obviously it will not be an election issue at all.

 

Though I must say, as an Australian observer, if a party here came out with such a position, I would find it very difficult to give them my vote.

[Jingus 0]

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal yesterday signed the “Sex Offender Chemical Castration Bill” hours after the Supreme Court overturned that state’s law allowing capital punishment for child rapists. It “provides that on a first conviction of aggravated rape, forcible rape, second degree sexual battery, aggravated incest, molestation of a juvenile when the victim is under the age of 13, or an aggravated crime against nature, the court may sentence the offender to undergo chemical castration. On a second conviction of the above listed crimes, the court is required to sentence the offender to undergo chemical castration.”

How is that not cruel and unusual punishment? Physical mutilation should never, ever, never be a part of the American justice system. Why not break the trigger fingers of bank robbers or glue shut the nostrils of coke addicts while we're at it?

 

And it doesn't always work out that way. I have a former relative (married into the family) who kidnapped a six year old girl, raped her, taped it, tried to sell it on the internet, and got busted. He's getting out of prison after only ten years. What the fuck is up with that shit? Not even life in prison.

Dude, that's a fairly ordinary sentence for any kind of violent felony. Or even longer than ordinary for violent physical assault. There were literally murderers who have been arrested, convicted, sent to that same jail, and paroled while that guy still sat in his cell. Hell, if he'd chopped off the girl's arm with a meat cleaver instead of raping her, he probably wouldn't have gotten half that much time.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

McCain being elected would be a fiasco for this country. Regardless of what he does the Democrats are going to squash the Republicans in the House and Senate races, so McCain would be facing the most hostile Congress in history and all the Democrats would view him as a joke and would refuse to work with him. There is zero chance of McCain being a decent president, even if he somehow stole this thing he'd just be a 4 year lame duck until Hillary squashed him in 2012. So why bother?

 

I don't agree with this logic. In fact, I think that due to the fact that the Dems are predicted do to well in Congressional races (which makes zilch sense when you consider that this Congress has such low approval ratings...but then again its hardly like the GOP is doing anything in terms of candidates/policies to justify getting elected in these races to begin with) its a bonus for a McCain presidency given that Americans have traditionally favored divided governments at some level of Congress & the presidency.

 

I would also argue that some of Bill Clinton's best presidential years from 1995-Lewinsky scandal were done in conjunction with a Republican dominated Congress thereby showing that divided government does not always produce gridlock (although when things turn ugly it can get UGLY). Furthermore, if the Democrats tried to block many of McCain's policy proposals, on the condition that they had no good ones to replace them with, you might see damage done to the Democrats in 2010 and 2012 elections helping McCain further. After all, a big bonus to Truman in 1948 was the "Do Nothing" Congress that was against him and his domestic policies. Divided government would be tricky to manage and to play it correctly in elections requires a lot of deft political maneuvering and skill, but to assume that McCain would be a 4-year lame duck in this thing is ridiculous.

 

Having a Democratic controlled Congress and presidency doesn't always = good times either. Considering that the "Blue Dog" coalition is a pretty big influence in the House and that many of the Dems gains are going to come in conservative districts there could be opposition to a future Obama administration on liberal policy issues. Keep in mind that Clinton failed to push through universal health care in a Democratic controlled Congress, although I'd blame his wife for alienating those Democrats from day 1.

 

Personally, I feel that whoever our next president is will lose in 2012 anyway. Oil prices won't be going down in the near future, I think we are on the verge of an Israeli-Iran war, and the economy will be tanking (and Nostrodamos/Mayans and those people think an asteroid will kill us on December 21st anyway). This is going to be an administration that will inherit problems of Carteresque proportions and unless the next president is a miracle worker (and I don't believe they will be) the 2012 election is going to be a landslide harking back to the days of Reagan.

 

On another note, I can't STAND to hear John McCain give speeches. Its so awkward. Bush may not be able to speak well in public, but he sure will be missed if there is a McCain presidency on the horizon.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'm not the biggest Obama supporter in the world, but I'll vote for him in the fall. But for the McCain supporters out there I have to ask: Why vote for him? Just hate Democrats in general? Refuse to vote for the black guy? Seriously think McCain is going to do any sort of decent job if he's elected?

You could start by asking the 50 million people who voted for Bush in 2000, and the 62 million who did so in 2004. Lots of people agree with Republican policies, ya know.

 

I'm sure if I asked most of the people who voted Republican in 2000 or 2004 why they did it, their answer would be along the lines of "I had no idea they were going to fuck up this badly."

 

I'm mean, how much evidence do you need that Republican policies don't work before you are ready to stop voting for them?

[RepoMan 0]

 

This is the worst political ad I've ever seen (for Sen. John Cornyn, who's running for reelection in TX).

 

Another ridiculous GOP ad from 2006:

Sign me up for having teenage girls to have their gentila connected with probes watching porn.

 

I have no illusions Obama is a perfect candidate for my viewpoints. I’m opposed to the death penalty in any case (It’s hypocritical to say it’s ok for the State to kill, and teaches a horrible lesson that it‘s ok for those in authority to kill). Plus you can never be 100% certain about person’s guilt. I just say let the convicted enjoy the rest of their lives in the general population of a pound me in the ass prison.

 

And Obama is being hypocritical about not accepting public financing. But he is really running a grassroots campaign. Most of his financing is coming from small donors, (I gave him $40). I’ll take a little hypocrisy to avoid McCain continuing Bush’s failed policies. I’ve volunteered for his campaign expecting to be joined by fellow leftwing Dems. I was surprised that most other volunteers were independents who have never been involved in a political campaign or activism .

 

I’m so disappointed in McCain. If just given an A or B choice in 2000, I would have voted for him over Gore. McCain used to be pragmatic, and Gore was just trying to win by whoring himself out to opinion polls.

 

McCain is now just whoring himself out to the most far right and xenophobic parts of the GOP base.