Hurricane Katrina

[snuffbox 0]

Brownie quit.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Feel that Katrina clap!

 

Edit: Link corrected, Bork had nothing to do with the Katrina clap

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I've been here longer than most of this board and I don't remember an FBP.

 

HOLY SHIT 4 YEAR ANNIVERSARY I SHOULD QUIT NOW

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I remember him playing the same "role" in a thread marney created about how "I don't want to be black anymore" or something, some stupid editorial.

 

I don't know if it's still around though.

[Boon 0]

Shit. Coming into the thread halfway through again.

 

Apologies- couldn't give up the chance to bash Al Gore.

[SuperJerk 0]

Yeah, how dare he actually do something productive to help the hurricane victims. What a jerk.

 

 

Gore may have earned my respect 5 years too late, but he still earned it. Lay off of him.

[Vampiro69 0]

I am not a Gore supporter, but I thought that it was a nice gesture that he did. When someone does something nice for people because they have the ability to do so then I offer a "kudos" to them.

 

The people that I have a problem with are the Michael Moores and Jesse Jackson who stick the heads into situations that really don't need them. Wasn't there a big issue to worry about in New Orleans and Mississippi then whether the term "refugees" was racist?

[SuperJerk 0]

The people that I have a problem with are the Michael Moores and Jesse Jackson who stick the heads into situations that really don't need them.  Wasn't there a big issue to worry about in New Orleans and Mississippi then whether the term "refugees" was racist?

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I think Jesse was just pissed he couldn't find an appropriate word to rhyme with it.

[Boon 0]

I was taking a shot at Gore's inability to win his home state, not his gestures to the Katrina victims.

[SuperJerk 0]

I was taking a shot at Gore's inability to win his home state, not his gestures to the Katrina victims.

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Fuck Tennessee. Gore's inability to win the popular vote of his home state is trumped by his ability to win the popular vote of the rest of the country.

[SuperJerk 0]

How can one man win president if he can't carry his own HOME state. I can't be bothered to remember to ran in 84 and 88 again Ron and George, but they atleast won their own home state. Not winning your own home state is the complete deathwish of any one trying to win president.

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"Blow me."

[2GOLD 0]

Making a joke about someone doesn't mean you don't respect the guy. So some people make fun of Al. Hell, AL makes fun of Al nowadays.

[snuffbox 0]

Didnt Bush lose his own county?

[Boon 0]

I was taking a shot at Gore's inability to win his home state, not his gestures to the Katrina victims.

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Fuck Tennessee. Gore's inability to win the popular vote of his home state is trumped by his ability to win the popular vote of the rest of the country.

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Uh, no, see, 'cause winning the popular vote doesn't mean winning the election. Winning his home state would have.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Does Tenn have enough electoral votes that if Bush still won Florida, Gore would have more electoral votes?

 

Anyway, moot point, after two terms as VP, the District is his home turf more than Tennessee, I feel.

[snuffbox 0]

Does Tenn have enough electoral votes that if Bush still won Florida, Gore would have more electoral votes?

 

Anyway, moot point, after two terms as VP, the District is his home turf more than Tennessee, I feel.

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Agreed. Between his time as VP and in Congress along with the Christian conservativism in Tennessee it makes good sense that Gore wouldnt carry it.

 

Keep tryin though boon....

[SuperJerk 0]

I was taking a shot at Gore's inability to win his home state, not his gestures to the Katrina victims.

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Fuck Tennessee. Gore's inability to win the popular vote of his home state is trumped by his ability to win the popular vote of the rest of the country.

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Uh, no, see, 'cause winning the popular vote doesn't mean winning the election. Winning his home state would have.

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I didn't say he won the election.

 

I said winning the popular vote of the entire nation, whether it wins you the presidential election or not, is a bigger accomplishment than winning your home state.

 

Congratulations on COMPLETELY missing the point of the discussion.

[Perfxion 0]

But if having the popular vote means NOTHING then he can pat himself on the back for winning a big cup of NOTHING. FL would have meant nothing if he won TN.

[SuperJerk 0]

But if having the popular vote means NOTHING then he can pat himself on the back for winning a big cup of NOTHING. FL would have meant nothing if he won TN.

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What were we talking about, though?

 

Were we talking about "Al Gore should have won the 2000 election"? Or were we talking about Al Gore's future political viability?

 

Hint: It was the second one.

 

You went off on a rant about how he was dead politically because he didn't win TN in 2000 ("How can one man win president if he can't carry his own HOME state," you said), which I've already proven is a total bullshit argument.

 

You don't need to win your home state to win a presidential election. It has been done before.

[Perfxion 0]

I was talking about 2000. I stated talking about 2000. And BTW, he doesn't have a hope in hell of winning in 08. He won't get the nod at the DNC. Chris Shayes has a better chance of winning the DNC nod in 08.

 

The way the country is now, its red vs blue. All blue states are in the north and west. If Gore couldn't win TN before, I doubt he will win again. Not winning one Southern state is what made him lose in 2000, and what made Kerry lose in 2004. And if the Dems can not get a person to connect to ONE state in the south, we will have another 4 years of red.

[Richard 0]

25 stupid quotes about Hurricane Katrina

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

And if the Dems can not get a person to connect to ONE state in the south, we will have another 4 years of red.

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You forget about the West, my friend.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Bill Richardson is overrated.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Oh yeah, (speaking of the West) also to add to my short list from the other thread...

 

Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer.

 

He has a Republican Lt. Gov.

[SuperJerk 0]

I was talking about 2000. I stated talking about 2000. And BTW, he doesn't have a hope in hell of winning in 08. He won't get the nod at the DNC. Chris Shayes has a better chance of winning the DNC nod in 08.

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Thank you for your opinion. Please post again when you actually have some facts or logic to back your argument up with.

 

Saying

 

Not winning your own home state is the complete deathwish of any one trying to win president.

 

implies he is still attempting to become president, since you used the present tense. Since there is no election currently going on, I assumed you meant he was making a future attempt. The confusion was probably mine, but when you abuse simple articles like "the" and "of" it is easy to get the incorrect meaning from your poorly worded sentence.

 

You should have said: Not winning your home state is a complete death wish for anyone who has tried to win the presidency. It would still be an ignorant comment, but at least your meaning would have been more clear. And for the last fucking time, you don't need to win your home state to win the election.

 

WE NOW RETURN TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED HURRICANE KATRINA DISCUSSION, ALREADY IN PROGRESS...

 

Amid Katrina Chaos, Congressman Used National Guard to Visit Home

Two Heavy Trucks, Helicopter Were Involved in Lawmaker's Trip at Height of Crisis

By JAKE TAPPER

 

Sep. 14, 2005 - Amid the chaos and confusion that engulfed New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina struck, a congressman used National Guard troops to check on his property and rescue his personal belongings -- even while New Orleans residents were trying to get rescued from rooftops, ABC News has learned.

 

On Sept. 2 -- five days after Katrina hit the Gulf Coast -- Rep. William Jefferson, D-La., who represents New Orleans and is a senior member of the powerful Ways and Means Committee, was allowed through the military blockades set up around the city to reach the Superdome, where thousands of evacuees had been taken.

 

Military sources tells ABC News that Jefferson, an eight-term Democratic congressman, asked the National Guard that night to take him on a tour of the flooded portions of his congressional district. A five-ton military truck and a half dozen military police were dispatched.

 

Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard tells ABC News that during the tour, Jefferson asked that the truck take him to his home on Marengo Street, in the affluent uptown neighborhood in his congressional district. According to Schneider, this was not part of Jefferson's initial request.

 

Jefferson defended the expedition, saying he set out to see how residents were coping at the Superdome and in his neighborhood. He also insisted that he did not ask the National Guard to transport him.

 

"I did not seek the use of military assets to help me get around my city," Jefferson told ABC News. "There was shooting going on. There was sniping going on. They thought I should be escorted by some military guards, both to the convention center, the Superdome and uptown."

 

The water reached to the third step of Jefferson's house, a military source familiar with the incident told ABC News, and the vehicle pulled up onto Jefferson's front lawn so he wouldn't have to walk in the water. Jefferson went into the house alone, the source says, while the soldiers waited on the porch for about an hour.

 

Finally, according to the source, Jefferson emerged with a laptop computer, three suitcases, and a box about the size of a small refrigerator, which the enlisted men loaded up into the truck.

 

"I don't think there is any explanation for an elected official using resources for their own personal use, when those resources should be doing search and rescue, or they should be helping with law enforcement in the city," said Jerry Hauer, a homeland security expert and ABC News consultant.

 

Jefferson said the trip was entirely appropriate. It took only a few minutes to retrieve his belongings, he said, and the truck stayed at his house for an hour in part to assist neighbors.

 

"This wasn't about me going to my house. It was about me going to my district," he said.

 

Two Heavy Trucks and Helicopter Involved

 

The Louisiana National Guard tells ABC News the truck became stuck as it waited for Jefferson to retrieve his belongings.

 

Two weeks later, the vehicle's tire tracks were still visible on the lawn.

 

The soldiers signaled to helicopters in the air for aid. Military sources say a Coast Guard helicopter pilot saw the signal and flew to Jefferson's home. The chopper was already carrying four rescued New Orleans residents at the time.

 

A rescue diver descended from the helicopter, but the congressman decided against going up in the helicopter, sources say. The pilot sent the diver down again, but Jefferson again declined to go up the helicopter.

 

After spending approximately 45 minutes with Jefferson, the helicopter went on to rescue three additional New Orleans residents before it ran low on fuel and was forced to end its mission.

 

"Forty-five minutes can be an eternity to somebody that is drowning, to somebody that is sitting in a roof, and it needs to be used its primary purpose during an emergency," said Hauer.

 

Coast Guard Cmdr. Brendan McPherson told ABC News, "We did have an aircraft that responded to a signal of distress where the congressman was located. The congressman did decline rescue at the time so the helicopter picked up three other people.

 

"I can't comment on why the congressman decided not to go in the aircraft," McPherson said. "Did it take a little more time to send the rescue swimmer back a second time? Yes … You'd have to ask the congressman if it was a waste of time or not."

 

The Louisiana National Guard then sent a second five-ton truck to rescue the first truck, and Jefferson and his personal items were returned to the Superdome.

 

Schneider said he could not comment on whether the excursion was appropriate. "We're in no position to comment on an order given to a soldier. You're not going to get a statement from the Louisiana National Guard saying whether it was right or wrong. That was the mission we were assigned."

 

Jefferson insisted the expedition did not distract from rescue efforts.

 

"They actually picked up a lot of people while we were there," he said. "The young soldier said, 'It's a good thing we came up here because a lot of people would not have been rescued had we not been in the neighborhood.'"

 

Jefferson's Homes Searched in Unrelated Investigation

 

In an unrelated matter, authorities recently searched Jefferson's property as part of a federal investigation into the finances of a high-tech firm. Last month FBI officials raided Jefferson's house as well as his home in Washington, D.C., his car and his accountant's house.

 

Jefferson has not commented on that matter, except to say he is cooperating with the investigation. But he has emerged as a major voice in the post-Katrina political debate.

 

"The levee system that had protected New Orleans for hundreds of years had failed," he said on the House floor on Sept. 7. "Our city was inundated, 80 percent of it, with deadly water. Thousands of lives were lost, many drowned, trapped in their homes. Others were lost trying to escape the fury."

 

Last week, Jefferson set up a special trust fund for contributions to his legal defense in light of the FBI investigation. A senior federal law enforcement source tells ABC News that investigators are interested in learning if Jefferson moved any materials relevant to the investigation. Jefferson says he did not.

 

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatr...=1123495&page=1

[Perfxion 0]

Um, since most people running for president these days from Congress or are governor, that is a very good sign. If you can't win your home state and you sat on congress, how fucking bad are you? That isn't opinion, that is fact. Him winning TN would made FL a moot point.

 

Wow, adding the content of people in power making sure they can get worthless shit while others need help. That never happens, thanks for the shocking info.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Guess who gave the easy thumbs up to Mike "What the hell am I doing here?" Brown as FEMA chief? Democrats!

 

This is an excerpt the transcript of tonight's episode of Lou Dobbs Tonight.

 

DOBBS: Deborah, thank you very much. Deborah Feyerick.

 

New controversy tonight surrounds the tenure of former FEMA director Mike Brown. It turns out many of the very people publicly blasting Brown's performance are the very same people who played a significant, critical role in his winning the job in the first place. Ed Henry has the story from Capitol Hill.

 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

 

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democrats have acted surprised and outraged that the president's FEMA director had next to no experience.

 

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA) MINORITY LEADER: He appointed a person to head FEMA who had absolutely no credentials.

 

HENRY: But Democrats were running the Senate when Brown was easily confirmed as FEMA's deputy director in June 2002. The Democrat in charge of the confirmation hearing, Joe Lieberman, declared he would support Brown because of his, quote, "extensive management experience."

 

Only four of 17 senators on the committee showed up for that hearing which lasted only 42 minutes. With no tough questions about Brown's nine years running an Arabian horse association.

 

When pressed by CNN about whether he did a tough enough job scrutinizing Brown, Lieberman put the onus on the president.

 

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN, (D) CONNECTICUT: The president has earned the right to make the choice of who he wants to serve him. Congress has to decide not whether I would have chosen the person, but whether the person is acceptable for the job. And at that point, he sure looked like it.

 

HENRY: Lieberman noted Brown's resume suggested back in the late 70s he was in charge of emergency services in a small Oklahoma town. A claim now in question.

 

LIEBERMAN: In the aftermath of the last week, I'd say information that it seems to either consciously or unconsciously, there was an element of his resume that was wrongly stated, that suggested he had more background in emergency management.

 

HENRY: Some senators acknowledged Democrats could have been tougher.

 

SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG, (D) NEW JERSEY: The majority did a bad job. That's what I think.

 

HENRY: Other Democrats defended their level of oversight.

 

SEN. DANIEL AKAKA, (D) HAWAII: But in retrospect, 42 minutes is an easy amount of scrutiny. That's for one person, that's an appropriate time.

 

HENRY: Senate Democrats also allowed the president to elevate Brown to director of FEMA without a second confirmation hearing when the agency was folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Lieberman is now vowing to be much tougher.

 

LIEBERMAN: Needless to say the replacement for Michael Brown will receive quite a hearing.

 

HENRY: But about an hour before Lieberman made that very promise, his Homeland Security Committee was considering four other nominees, including one who will be crafting labor policy for the Homeland Security Department. Most lawmakers only had staff at the hearing. Many senators themselves, including Lieberman, were absent.

 

Ed Henry, CNN, Capitol Hill.

 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

 

I am just blown away in admiration of these people's dedication to their work!

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Democrats!...Joe Lieberman

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Debatable.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Not nearly enough buses to make a big difference.

Again, the city of New Orleans had 350 schoolbuses 1 mile from the superdome that oculd have been used to evacuate people..

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Moreover, The New York Times noted that a number of New Orleans buses were in use as the hurricane approached: "But Chester Wilmot, an L.S.U. [Louisiana State University] civil engineering professor who studies evacuation plans, said the city successfully improvised. He said witnesses described seeing city buses shuttle residents to the Superdome before Hurricane Katrina struck."

 

Linkage.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I really can't blame the Federal government that much, because all they can really do is support the local and state governments when they ask for assistance. You know, that whole "State's rights" thing?

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"catastrophic events," such as what occurred in New Orleans, call for heightened and "proactive" federal involvement to manage the disaster. The response plan listed "guiding principles" to govern the response to these major events. The "Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response" make clear that, in these "catastrophic" cases, the federal government will operate independently to provide assistance, rather than simply supporting or cajoling state authorities:

 

-The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.

-Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.

-Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.

-Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

-State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of "steady-state" preparedness for catastrophic incidents."

 

A September 5 Los Angeles Times article quoted former FEMA chief of staff Jane Bullock saying that "[t]he moment the president declared a federal disaster [on Aug 29], it became a federal responsibility. ... The federal government took ownership over the response." Moreover, DHS' own website declares that DHS "will assume primary responsibility on March 1st [2005] for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort."

[SuperJerk 0]

Um, since most people running for president these days from Congress or are governor, that is a very good sign. If you can't win your home state and you sat on congress, how fucking bad are you?

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Is THAT what this is about? You're still wrong, but I think I can explain why and maybe persuade you why you're reasoning is flawed.

 

Here is what you are failing to consider: He wasn't being elected straight from the Congress to the Presidency.

 

He hadn't represented TN in the Senate for 8 years at that point. 8 years as a nationally elected figure did a lot to disconnect Gore from TN voters' concerns. He was no longer "one of them", he was a Washington insider, and had been the VP for a President who by 2000 had become EXTREMELY unpopular in TN (although Clinton did carry TN in both 1992 and 1996). This is similar to how Woodrow Wilson won the 1916 election without winning NJ because he had already been president for 4 years at that point.

 

So, to answer your question, how bad is someone who fails to win their home state? Not bad at all, if the reason is because the state's political make-up drastically changed since the last time you ran for statewide election.