Rock at WM question

[JoeDirt 0]

For someone who reads the observer, other than Sting, what other matches did Rock propose to do at WM last year when Vince wanted him to face Cena or JBL?

 

And is there any chance of Rock/HBK this year at WM?

[Dangerous A 0]

As far as Rock's proposed matches for WM this last year, you've got all of it in your post. That was pretty much it.

 

I think they will try to put Rock/HBK together if Hogan/Austin falls through, but I doubt if they'll put both of those dream matches on the same show. I could see Rock/HBK on a different show, but no reason to blow 2 huge potential money matches in one shot. I would love a Rock/HBK match only if HBK would go back to doing his heel work of this summer. However, HBK's behavior after the Hogan program may have Rock thinking twice, but Rock would not be opposed to doing a 2 match program trading wins and losses. While I know Rock and HHH are not on each other's Christmas lists, I don't think Rock has it out for Shawn as far as I've read.

[JoeDirt 0]

I swear I read Meltzer say that Rock gave Vince like 5 match suggestions other than JBL or Cena, with Sting being one of them. Meltzer said the Sting match would probably be the second best possible match quality wise too, but didn't say what #1 was. I'm guessing HBK, but I'm wondering who else he proposed to face.

 

I really can't see Hogan/Austin happening...I'd think Hogan/Cena is more likely, to be honest.

[Carnival 0]

The Rock would do a clean job to Chavo as Kerwin White.

 

The Rock has always been good about that kind of stuff.

[Angelus 0]

I think they will try to put Rock/HBK together if Hogan/Austin falls through, but I doubt if they'll put both of those dream matches on the same show. I could see Rock/HBK on a different show, but no reason to blow 2 huge potential money matches in one shot. I would love a Rock/HBK match only if HBK would go back to doing his heel work of this summer. However, HBK's behavior after the Hogan program may have Rock thinking twice, but Rock would not be opposed to doing a 2 match program trading wins and losses. While I know Rock and HHH are not on each other's Christmas lists, I don't think Rock has it out for Shawn as far as I've read

 

Rock will not wrestle HBK, he dosen't like him... That sad because i really want him to destroy Michaels on the mic

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

The Rock is everything Michaels wanted to be:

 

- Mainstream famous

- The carrier of "the ball"

- The top guy during a boom

- Great reputation

- Unselfish

- More title victories

- Solid worker (Michaels is a better worker of course, but Rock is eons above other "big super main eventers" that dominated like Hogan)

- Does a "handsome" gimmick that girls woo at and guys find funny and cheer for, instead of being repulsed

 

If Michaels had to job to Rock, he'd hang himself. Rock did more for the business in 2 years with a people's elbow on top then Michaels did in his career, despite being an insane bumper, carrier, and worker.

[Guest *KNK*]

The Rock is everything Michaels wanted to be:

 

- Mainstream famous

- The carrier of "the ball"

- The top guy during a boom

- Great reputation

- Unselfish

- More title victories

- Solid worker (Michaels is a better worker of course, but Rock is eons above other "big super main eventers" that dominated like Hogan)

- Does a "handsome" gimmick that girls woo at and guys find funny and cheer for, instead of being repulsed

 

If Michaels had to job to Rock, he'd hang himself.  Rock did more for the business in 2 years with a people's elbow on top then Michaels did in his career, despite being an insane bumper, carrier, and worker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Shawn wanted to be unselfish?

[nl5xsk1 0]

Shawn wanted to be unselfish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Shawn wanted to be known as being unselfish. He just wasn't willing to be unselfish enough to earn that reputation.

[cameron chaos 0]

I swear I read Meltzer say that Rock gave Vince like 5 match suggestions other than JBL or Cena, with Sting being one of them. Meltzer said the Sting match would probably be the second best possible match quality wise too, but didn't say what #1 was. I'm guessing HBK, but I'm wondering who else he proposed to face.

 

I really can't see Hogan/Austin happening...I'd think Hogan/Cena is more likely, to be honest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Considering Austin has often said he would never job to Hogan after Hogan pulled strings to make him job to Duggan in WCW and told Power Slam magazine "One day Hogan and I will meet and I will take his legend, his fame, his reputation and fold it up and put it in my back pocket" and the fact Hogan has a creative control clause that allows him to veto any match result he doesn't like ahead of time, I can't see the match coming to pass unless Austin is willing to lay down.

[Guest MrBriggs]

Shawn wanted to be unselfish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Shawn wanted to be known as being unselfish. He just wasn't willing to be unselfish enough to earn that reputation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's digging way too deep into HBK's psyche for somebody who I'm assuming has never met the guy.

 

No offense.

[Guest clockworkraven]

Shawn wanted to be unselfish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Shawn wanted to be known as being unselfish. He just wasn't willing to be unselfish enough to earn that reputation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He was selfish enough to have wanted to be known as unselfish, but he was too selfish to act unselfish for the sake of being selfish?

 

Goddamn. Overkill on the word 'selfish', at least.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Austin/Hogan and Rock/HBK double main event may get the biggest buyrate ever. I don't think the actual feuds would be 'that' interesting.

 

Austin/Hogan would be good but as someone said Hogan probably has the control to veto any possible job, and why should Austin have to lose to Hogan?

 

Rock would murder HBK on the mic. I'm an HBK fan but that feud would be totally lopsided. It would be the exact same thing as the Hogan situation where they suddenly have to turn HBK heel out of nowhere and probably have him use the same "Hollywood" argument. The only difference is the 'shoot' comments wouldn't work against the Rock who would probably start mocking HBK's poses and shoot on his past. I can just imagine the feud being predictable enough to start with HBK saying he respects Rock and thansuperkicking him.

 

I wouldn't mind Rock/Cena though. The current 'cool' character vs the 'cool' character of yesteryear.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

Why shouldn't Austin lose to Hogan? He doesn't have anymore of a future than Hulk does. If they want to have Austin save face, just put over how injured he is.

 

As for HBK/Rock, they should let each man go all out on the mic. Don't worry about who's the face or heel. The fans would pick their favourite and go with it, and both men are good enough on the stick and in the ring to adjust to that.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

As for HBK/Rock, they should let each man go all out on the mic. Don't worry about who's the face or heel. The fans would pick their favourite and go with it, and both men are good enough on the stick and in the ring to adjust to that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just don't think HBK has a shot if it's a mic war, its going to make him look way too ordinary.

[cabbageboy 0]

I want to see RVD/Shawn at WM next year. Look, they can't just keep bringing old retread guys back and giving them the biggest paydays. All it does is make your actual 365 days a year talent look bad. Rock/HBK accomplishes nothing and is just a wank fest. Jobbing Shawn out to the Rock makes no sense but I can't see the Rock jobbing to Shawn given his dislike of Michaels.

 

See if this makes any sense: Stuff like Hogan/Austin would draw a bigger buyrate than Hogan/Cena, but Hogan/Cena is more productive. If Hogan agreed to put over Cena that would really MAKE his career. But Hogan/Austin? Honestly, who gives a shit who wins that?

[Fökai 0]

If Hogan agreed to put over Cena that would really MAKE his career.  But Hogan/Austin?  Honestly, who gives a shit who wins that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know if Hogan has a "rub" to give anymore. The way he portrays himself now, the crowds look at his losses as flukes. Not to mention that even if he jobs clean to Cena, he find'll a way to upstage him (see Rock). Even then, if Cena wins cleanly with no screwiness, what good does it do for him? Struggling to beat a 50-year old man does more damage to his character than you would think.

 

Hogan's last leg is standing on a Olympic-sized swimming pool full of money, and the WWE should and will realize that. Hogan/Austin, being the ultimate money match, is the perfect table-setter for Mania.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Hogan vs. Austin.

 

The biggest match WWE could ever do.

 

Period.

 

And you know they want it...since ever single word that has come out of Hogans, Austins or McMahons mouth in the last 4 months has been a work towards this match.

 

I think it happens. I think Austin wins.

 

Steve Austin does not wrestle his first and maybe only match in years to lose to Hogan.

 

Hogan jobs because he can claim the huge buyrate that this Mania will do...and went over HBK clean.

 

I think what really needs to be taken from all of this is just how far out of the Hogan/Austin league Michaels really is.

 

...Rock, HHH and Bret freaking Hart aren't in there either...

[cabbageboy 0]

The Rock is certainly on Austin's level, maybe not in a markish perspective in that Austin beat him seemingly every time aside from WM 19, but in terms of being a draw he's certainly comparable. Hell in 2000 when the Rock and HHH were on top the WWF did its best business.

 

I personally dunno about Hogan's so called rub, but him going against Austin means very little to the every day grind of WWE. All it does is keeps the every day talent down and perceived as 2nd rate.

 

That said, if this does go down have a look at this possible WM card:

 

Hogan/Austin

Batista/Lesnar (if Brock is back)

Cena/HHH (you know it's happening)

RVD/HBK (I'd like to see this one, and RVD has given interviews saying he'd like to face Michaels).

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Hogan vs. Austin.

 

The biggest match WWE could ever do.

 

Period.

 

And you know they want it...since ever single word that has come out of Hogans, Austins or McMahons mouth in the last 4 months has been a work towards this match.

 

I think it happens.  I think Austin wins.

 

Steve Austin does not wrestle his first and maybe only match in years to lose to Hogan.

 

Hogan jobs because he can claim the huge buyrate that this Mania will do...and went over HBK clean.

 

I think what really needs to be taken from all of this is just how far out of the Hogan/Austin league Michaels really is. 

 

...Rock, HHH and Bret freaking Hart aren't in there either...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From what perspectice?

 

HBK and Bret are both better wrestlers than Hogan and in the same league with Austin.

 

Promowise, I take Rock over all of them.

 

Drawing wise, nobody is close but Rock is a bigger mainstream star than Austin has ever been. And from 99 on you have to give Rock tons of credit for WWE's continued success through 2000.

 

I guess I see what you mean. Austin and Hogan are the biggest 'wrestling' stars of all time.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I'm obviously not talking about workrate.

 

I'm talking about them being clearly the two biggest stars in the history of the company.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

Hogan/Austin would not be the biggest match of all time. Now, if it was 1987 Hogan vs. 1998 Austin, then it would be, but both guys are shells of their former selves, and the "Hulk Hogan Nostalgia Tour" has overstayed it's welcome. There's only so many times you can put Hogan out there in a "dream match" against Rock, HHH, Vince, HBK or whoever and expect people to care. Sure, it will pop a good buyrate, but we don't need Austin and his bad neck wrestling Hogan and his bad knee and artificial hip. It would be like putting Muhammad Ali out there against Mike Tyson. It was a good idea at one time, but not now.

 

Hogan has a "He's STILL wrestling? Isn't he 87 years old?" type of response to him now. It was cool in 1994 when he wrestled Flair, and it was still cool in 2002 when he wrestled the Rock, because he could still at least MOVE around the ring. Now he can't even bump properly. Does he still sell PPV's? Sure. But this isn't 1988 anymore.

 

Austin's act has gotten extremely stale. Like Hogan, but add a decade. This isn't 1998 anymore. Flipping off the boss and drinking 45 beers was cool 7 years ago, but not anymore.

 

Yes, I will admit that Hogan and Austin (along with Rock) are the biggest stars in the company's history. But their star power isn't as bright as it once was. If the WWE wants to do a Austin/Hogan match, then yes, it would be a big deal. But don't treat it like a main event like Hogan/Vince or Hogan/Rock was.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hogan/Austin would not be the biggest match of all time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The two biggest stars in the history of North American wrestling facing each other for the first time ever in a singles match, on the biggest stage of them all, and it wouldn't be the biggest match of all time?

 

[bob_barron 0]

I don't know HTQ, I would think Andre v. Hogan would have it beat.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't know HTQ, I would think Andre v. Hogan would have it beat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I think Austin v Hogan could be seen as this generations version of Andre v Hogan, I also think Austin v Hogan will be so much bigger. It'll draw a hell of lot more, that's for sure.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

Hogan/Austin would not be the biggest match of all time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The two biggest stars in the history of North American wrestling facing each other for the first time ever in a singles match, on the biggest stage of them all, and it wouldn't be the biggest match of all time?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The fans don't care about either guy as much as they did when they were in their primes. Like I said, you can't bring Austin back and have the fans care about him the same way they did in 98 and 99. Same with Hogan. Is he still popular? Of course. But he's nowhere near where he was at WM III. I'm not saying that no one would care about a match like this, but it wouldn't be the biggest match ever. Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Rock, and Hogan/Warrior are the 3 biggest WWE matches of all time, in my opinion. There's no way Hogan/Austin would sell 93,000 tickets and sell out the Pontiac Silverdome.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Neither did Hogan/Andre.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Hogan/Austin would not be the biggest match of all time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The two biggest stars in the history of North American wrestling facing each other for the first time ever in a singles match, on the biggest stage of them all, and it wouldn't be the biggest match of all time?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The fans don't care about either guy as much as they did when they were in their primes. Like I said, you can't bring Austin back and have the fans care about him the same way they did in 98 and 99. Same with Hogan. Is he still popular? Of course. But he's nowhere near where he was at WM III. I'm not saying that no one would care about a match like this, but it wouldn't be the biggest match ever. Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Rock, and Hogan/Warrior are the 3 biggest WWE matches of all time, in my opinion. There's no way Hogan/Austin would sell 93,000 tickets and sell out the Pontiac Silverdome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fans don't care about either guy as much as they did when they were in their primes.

 

If they were coming back as full time wrestlers, that argument would have merit. They would be brought back as a nostalgia deal, and nostalgia can draw some huge numbers. You think WM X8 drew so huge because of Hunter in the main event?

 

Like I said, you can't bring Austin back and have the fans care about him the same way they did in 98 and 99.  Same with Hogan.  Is he still popular?  Of course.  But he's nowhere near where he was at WM III.  I'm not saying that no one would care about a match like this, but it wouldn't be the biggest match ever.  Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Rock, and Hogan/Warrior are the 3 biggest WWE matches of all time, in my opinion.

 

If Austin and Hogan were treated as just two more wrestlers on the roster, I might agree, but it won't be treated like that. It will be treated as two iconic people meeting for the first time ever in a singles match, on the biggest stage of all. That will draw monster numbers.

 

There's no way Hogan/Austin would sell 93,000 tickets and sell out the Pontiac Silverdome.

 

The 93,000 number is a work.

[bob_barron 0]

Why do you think nWo v. Austin/Rock didn't do anything? Because Hogan is a heel?

 

I'm not a Hulkamaniac, and Austin does nothing for me, so I just can't remotely get excited about this match

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Why do you think nWo v. Austin/Rock didn't do anything? Because Hogan is a heel?

 

I'm not a Hulkamaniac, and Austin does nothing for me, so I just can't remotely get excited about this match

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do you think nWo v. Austin/Rock didn't do anything? Because Hogan is a heel?

People don't want to see a heel Hulk Hogan. They won't pay to see one, just like people didn't pay to see a heel Steve Austin. Both men could work at getting the crowd to eventually boo them, but they were booing because they were going along with the storyline, and not because they hated them. People don't want to pay to see a nostalgia act they are meant to boo. People pay to see a notalgia act they can cheer for and are meant to cheer for.

 

I'm not a Hulkamaniac, and Austin does nothing for me, so I just can't remotely get excited about this match

 

I'm not a fan of Hogan, and I don't care to see Austin either, but only a fool would dismiss out of hand the drawing power of such a match. I wouldn't pay to see it, but I would be in the minority on that one.

[Guest MrBriggs]

People don't want to see a heel Hulk Hogan. They won't pay to see one, just like people didn't pay to see a heel Steve Austin. Both men could work at getting the crowd to eventually boo them, but they were booing because they were going along with the storyline, and not because they hated them. People don't want to pay to see a nostalgia act they are meant to boo. People pay to see a notalgia act they can cheer for and are meant to cheer for.

 

 

Bullshit. People didn't boo nWo's "Hollywood" Hulk Hogan because they were just going along with the storyline. He was a cowardly, scumbag heel who the crowd wanted to see get his comeuppance.

 

If andybody disagrees with that, I'd be shocked.