HBK is a little unhappy

[Black Lushus 0]

I'll let the Hakushi comment go because I at least saw him vs. Bret in person and that match rocked.  For the most part though he didn't do a whole lot, so it's tough to say he's better than Shawn.  And The Rock circa 1997?  Dear God.  Green as grass.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay, you got me there, I may have been stoned when i typed that...BUT, the point is, whether you're looking at workrate or overall entertainment value, HBK has never been the best at any given time even during his hottest 3 years...

[KTID 0]

95-Bret/Hakushi were better workers, 96-Bret/Austin/Mankind overall were better, 97-Austin/Bret/Owen/Rock

Just die. Please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This used to be a banning offence. *hint**hint*

 

 

who is JoeJoe and why should I care about his opinion?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's an annoying troll and no you most certainly should not care about his opinion.

[Black Lushus 0]

Yeah I didn't think so...

[Perfxion 0]

Thing that is scary about Hakushi is that his WORST matches were in the WWF. He was leaps and bounds better than just about everyone on the roster who's last name didn't end with Hart.

 

Telling someone to die because they don't think that HBK is one of the best workers/wrestlers in the WWF durring the mid 90s is just sad. HBK was good, he wasn't great. Hell, he doesn't hit top 5 durring 95-97. He is top 5 in 1994, only because he was wrestling **** matches against the clique every month.

[Guest *KNK*]

Thing that is scary about Hakushi is that his WORST matches were in the WWF. He was leaps and bounds better than just about everyone on the roster who's last name didn't end with Hart.

 

Telling someone to die because they don't think that HBK is one of the best workers/wrestlers in the WWF durring the mid 90s is just sad. HBK was good, he wasn't great. Hell, he doesn't hit top 5 durring 95-97. He is top 5 in 1994, only because he was wrestling **** matches against the clique every month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's weird you acknowlege 1994, where he worked maybe a grand total of 4 months that year (he spent the rest managing and part time tagging with Diesel that year).

 

In fact, asides the obvious WMX match, what else of note did Shawn do in ring that year?

 

I would have to argue 1996 was Shawn's strongest year which goes without question since it was really his only full year as a singles worker.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Thing that is scary about Hakushi is that his WORST matches were in the WWF. He was leaps and bounds better than just about everyone on the roster who's last name didn't end with Hart.

 

Telling someone to die because they don't think that HBK is one of the best workers/wrestlers in the WWF durring the mid 90s is just sad. HBK was good, he wasn't great. Hell, he doesn't hit top 5 durring 95-97. He is top 5 in 1994, only because he was wrestling **** matches against the clique every month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In fact, asides the obvious WMX match, what else of note did Shawn do in ring that year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was that overrated Clique tag match from the Action Zone.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I must be the one of the only ones who doesn't think the WMX ladder match was anything to gush about over 10 years later. At the time, I thought it was really innovating because I had no idea the ladder match had been invented several years prior. A ladder match is going to be a spotfest by nature. Not many fans (especially casual ones) are looking for a whole lot of psychology going into one . . . other than 'don't let that other guy get up the ladder'. With that said, the original 4 TLC matches obviously smoked RR/HBK out of the water.

 

The odds of me sitting down to watch the WMX (EDIT: (ladder match)) again are slim and none . . . and slim is walking out the door.

[Black Lushus 0]

The odds of me sitting down to watch the WMX again are slim and none . . . and slim is walking out the door.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

anymore, I watch the first match on the tape and then move on...

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Whoops, meant to say WMX ladder match instead of just WMX.

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

The HBK hate on this board is IMO really saddening. He was, along with Bret Hart, one of the top two workers in the WWF during the 90's. Hell, he's still at the top of the list of workers in today's WWE.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

The HBK love on this board is IMO really saddening. He was, along with Kevin Nash, one of the top two assholes in the WWF during the 90's. Hell, he's still at the top of the list of assholes in today's WWE.

[Guest JoeJoe]

In fact, asides the obvious WMX match, what else of note did Shawn do in ring that year?

Shawn and Razor had an awesome houseshow series of ladder matches in early 94. I have watched atleast 2 of them on tape.

 

There was that overrated Clique tag match from the Action Zone.

OMZZZ IT DA KLIQZZZ EVERYTHING THEYZ DO IS OVERRATED!!!!!11!1

 

The HBK love on this board is IMO really saddening.  He was, along with Kevin Nash, one of the top two assholes in the WWF during the 90's. Hell, he's still at the top of the list of assholes in today's WWE.

Good point kid. Now lets all jump on the HBK hatin bandwagon and degrade him as a worker. Oh wait, he aint a worker, he's a performer. A PERFORMER. He's the popcorn flick Armageddon. And Meltzer is not wrestling's Ebert. He's a popcorn mark himself.

Hatin HBK is indeed cool, thanks for making me realize that.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

You're welcome.

[BruiserKC 0]

Just a quick mention on the RVD hate...if Vince let him be the RVD he was in ECW I think fans would see just what potential this guy has to be a main-eventer. But Vince's ego would never allow him to get to that point until he saw what he could do at One Night Stand. Previously, being a bondage bitch to Kane killed whatever rub he had with the WWE fans, and that's sad.

 

As for HBK...he hasn't had a relevant match with someone other than Hunter since he jobbed to Austin at WM 14. His match was OK at SS with Hogan but it wasn't all that. He's another example of a wrestler that hangs on too long and doesn't really fit in anymore. Yet, people treat him as a legend so he can just about do whatever even if he really doesn't fit in with the plans. This man would be a perfect opponent to build up Cena with. But since he'd rather whine and have his own ego stroked he's going to gum up the works.

 

Only other thing I can see though is a revival of DX coming with HHH, HBK, and Flair.

[Guest JoeJoe]

Only other thing I can see though is a revival of DX coming with HHH, HBK, and Flair.

If Steph wasn't harboring Nickelodeon writers, I would have crapped my pants laughing at this.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'd say RVD was as good or better during his early (2001-02) WWE run as he was in ECW. What's funny is that he's been dicking around in pointless tag teams the past 2 years, with Kane, Booker, and Rey Rey. The irony is that the only one of those teams that had any chemistry was the one with Rey because Rey took on the role of Sabu in several spots. So even his best tag stint in WWE was a watered down form of his ECW work.

 

The irony is now the Raw tag scene is so shitty that they really have to push RVD as a singles again. Raw's face side is the drizzling shits....it's just Cena and the old dudes. And let's just say a recently semi heel Shawn and Flair (where most people subconsciously await the heel turn) isn't a real long term solution on the face side.

[Black Lushus 0]

RVD will be dicking around with Carlito once he's back to fulltime...that can't go well for either man...neither one needs to be jobbing at this point...

[CanadianChick 0]

Yeah, anyone who doesn't think RVD will intially be feuding with Carlito over the, shock of all shocks, IC title, they're kidding themselves. Hell, only two more wins and he catches up with Jericho in title reigns!

 

And the idea of Shawn, HHH, and Flair reforming DX is great, especially thinking about Flair. By great, I mean me giggling for the next hour about Flair.

[WrestlingFan4Ever 0]

The HBK love on this board is IMO really saddening. He was, along with Kevin Nash, one of the top two assholes in the WWF during the 90's. Hell, he's still at the top of the list of assholes in today's WWE.

 

OK so I guess the fact that he was an asshole automatically degrades him as a worker? And HBK hasn't been an asshole in today's WWE. The only backstage and on air 'old HBK' politicking that we've seen has been against Hogan, and its been for good reason because Hogan was a prick right back. The man has done a massive number of jobs since he's been back including having a terrible PPV win/loss record.

 

And as for the Hogan-HBK match, I personally feel that he got the best match out of Hogan that is physically possible these days.

[Guest]

Only other thing I can see though is a revival of DX coming with HHH, HBK, and Flair.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because a group of men 35 and over being degenerates is SO FUN to watch.

[Black Lushus 0]

why do they have to bring back old groups...just come up with a new one...if it's Angle, HHH, HBK and Flair, so be it, but call them something new, let them have their own "legacy"...

[Guest JoeJoe]

Pfff, Flair could tach them Kliqsters a thing or two about being a Degenerate. He could bring in a stewardess and flash his robe.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

HHH would reveal the the crotch-chop was a tribute to Naitch and his love of flashing the wang.

[Perfxion 0]

Problem with DX, is that its saying D-Generation-X. Ric Flair is NOT in generation X, Ric Flair is a baby boomer. He is just too old. . .really. For everything, he is just too old.

 

Call the group of Angle, Flair, HBK, and HHH P.O.P(Past our Prime), because they only get pops, and nobody is a draw.

[Guest JoeJoe]

because they only get pops, and nobody is a draw.

 

Ahemm..you mean they aren't Hogan, Austin, Rock level draws. But then again, how many are.

[Perfxion 0]

Who is drawing right now? Ratings and buyrates are hitting alltime lows. And three of the 4 have been headlining for the most part for the last 3 years. Its a good sign that they aren't drawing.

 

Flair used to be a major headline and BIGTIME draw, but those days are long gone. Flair in the south is as much of a household name as Austin, and I heard many sports shows use his "To be the man..." line both in NC/VA as well as NYC. But we are going back 15+ years to talk about him drawing.

 

HBK has been proven NEVER to be a draw. His best year of drawing is in 1998. And then he wrestled 4 matches. But going against the super over Undertaker, and the even more over Austin, with Tyson in his corner it comes a loaded deck.

 

HHH has been on the top of the card for about the last 6 years except for this very moment and when he tore his quad. In 2000, ratings for raw were in the 6/7 range. Beating alot of primetime regular TV shows in top shows of the week. In 2004/5, ratings are hitting holiday lows on non holiday shows. Also, HHH was main eventing shows that had buyrates that keep dropping month after month after month. It seems the only PPVs he draws well on are WMs. But that isn't true because look at WM19

 

Angle is booked so poorly, he can only draw in Pittsburg these days. It is sad too because Angle is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE style. Too many times he is the goofy dumbass that when they make him serious, nobody buys him as a threat. Prime example is in 2001, he was wearing a cowboy hat with Austin and singing country songs with McMahon while trying to win love of the boss so he can suck up more. Then he and Austin are supposed to draw back to back PPVs well because of this shit? Then he wins the title (post 9-11) and they are forced to put the belt back on Austin because ratings quickly tanked.

[Guest JoeJoe]

Who is drawing right now? Ratings and buyrates are hitting alltime lows.

Uh, WretleMania just did the biggest number since VII. All PPV's except Rumble have seen good increases from last year. Business for Mcmahon is tremendous at this point.

 

Flair used to be a major headline and BIGTIME draw, but those days are long gone.

Thats because he is no longer 40. He's an old guy whose still contributing by whats left of him. And I don't see those people in the arena complaining about it.

Oh, btw, his DVD sold the most number of copies ANY WWE DVD has sold in history. His book did great as well. If you didn't know by now.

 

HBK has been proven NEVER to be a draw. His best year of drawing is in 1998. And then he wrestled 4 matches. But going against the super over Undertaker, and the even more over Austin, with Tyson in his corner it comes a loaded deck.

Duh, faces are supposed to be "over" Heels draw heat. DX was by far the most hated thing on the continent by late 97 and early 98. Michales not getting to enjoy the perks of the attitude era is solely due to his retirment. Even Taker became a mammoth draw post WM 14. Tyson brought the people, Austin made them stay. Simple as that.

And Michaels since coming back has contributed his draws. He's maineventd XX, been part of the marquee PPV matches with Angle, and his promo work in the last month resulted in the highest number Hogan has done since WM X8. Not a draw? I think not. In fact, I think if he lets himself ride as a heel, he could greatly contribute to the business. The fact that Michaels' stale babyface shtick draws is impressive.

So get rid of that prejudice, fast.

 

 

HHH has been on the top of the card for about the last 6 years except for this very moment and when he tore his quad. In 2000, ratings for raw were in the 6/7 range.

HHH/Foley did better buyrates than Rock in 2000.

 

Angle is booked so poorly, he can only draw in Pittsburg these days. It is sad too because Angle is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE style. Too many times he is the goofy dumbass that when they make him serious, nobody buys him as a threat.

I know. He was awesome in the Michaels feud. And the character he is potraying right now could easily have been saved for a bigger occasion than UFG. But if he is to win the title and go onto bigger, better things at bigger places, I wont complain about the setup.

[bob_barron 0]

Business for Mcmahon is tremendous at this point.

 

That's why they just cut tons of guys right?

[Guest JoeJoe]

Look at the numbers, thats all I say. Cutting guys can be for a variety of reasons. Like when the aren't getting over. Lets not get into WWE philosophy here...air time for Diva search, Masters, Snitsky, child custody and necrophilia angles isn't excatly great for business.

[bob_barron 0]

Look at the numbers, thats all I say. Cutting guys can be for a variety of reasons. Like when the aren't getting over. Lets not get into WWE philosophy here...air time for Diva search, Masters, Snitsky, child custody and necrophilia angles isn't excatly great for business.

 

You do the same. Leaving Spike TV is costing them lots of money and to save it, they are cutting a bunch of guys. They wouldn't be cutting people if they were making tons of money.

 

HHH/Foley did better buyrates than Rock in 2000.

 

No Way Out: 1.2

No Mercy: 1.32

 

Rock beat HHH/Foley there.