Raw rating

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I can only see Matt going as high as where Jericho occupied before his departure.

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The difference between the two is that the people could identify and relate to what Matt Hardy had gone through. That creates the kind of emotional connection that makes people stars. Could Matt have been a star? Maybe, maybe not. But we'll never know now.

[justcoz 0]

Matt Hardy? You're kidding, right?

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well considering that we watched video package highlights of Chris Masters' Master Lock Challenge.... no, I don't think he's kidding.... Hardy could have made them a lot of money and they were clueless as to how to capitalize on the anti-company, indie wrestling, disgruntled fired employee, loose-cannon part of his character... instead, they get their jollies every week jobbing him out repeatedly despite his pops...

 

yes, Hardy has flaws, a lot of those were made noticeable in this feud with Edge but there is more of an upside to pushing him as there is Snitsky or Chris Masters - just as there is for pushing Shelton Benjamin over Chris Masters or Kerwin White...

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Hardy could of been the next loose cannon but then they realized they he could'nt cut a promo so they made him a jobber?

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The angle was ruined before the bad promo from the moment Vince McMahon introduced him, Hardy exited a limo and shook Vince's hand. Hardy's delivery was very poor but the whole promo was bad and it wasn't the type of promo he should've cut. It should have been laced with references to internet smarks, indie promotions like ROH, his best friend, girlfriend and company wronging him.

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If Owen Hart went over HBK for the IC title, he'd be an instant main eventer!

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If only they would have played off of his "Black Heart" character more when he re-appeared after the Montreal screwjob, to a great pop and delivered a strong promo. The angle had people talking and then HBK refused to job and Owen's push was minimal from that point on. So minimal that he sadly had to bring back the Blue Blazer.

[CanadianChick 0]

Matt Hardy's perfect role was as Version 1. A funny heel who's a midcarder and has a bit of a cult following. Just had to throw a couple of one-liners, didn't have to do "intense" promos, and wrestled smaller guys so his bigger size style he has looked good.

 

I don't see how he could ever have been a number 1 face, ever. Even with this angle, I still don't see it. He would have lost a part of his cult following because he "sold out". He would have had younger males cheering for Edge because he banged Lita under Matt's nose, and that's funny. His promo skills just aren't good for a serious promo, and as a face? At least as a heel, he can fall back on being pompous.

 

The angle was ruined before the bad promo from the moment Vince McMahon introduced him, Hardy exited a limo and shook Vince's hand. Hardy's delivery was very poor but the whole promo was bad and it wasn't the type of promo he should've cut. It should have been laced with references to internet smarks, indie promotions like ROH, his best friend, girlfriend and company wronging him.

 

Okay, I think everyone agrees he should have not shook Vince's hand. That was stupid. But I'd like to focus on the bolded part.

 

Reference to internet smarks....why? The internet smarks KNOW the situation (well, Matt's POV, and that's all that counts). In this case, there is no reason to single them out. If he said something like his MFers supporting him on the internet, that's cool. But to be overly smarky? Sure, we'd smile because he's talking about us, but it would do nothing for the marks, and he wants them behind him.

 

Indy promotions? A quick reference maybe, to show he wasn't going to let Edge/Lita ruin his career, but again, catering to the indy fans is not need, because they know the situation.

 

They did say Edge, Lita and WWE screwed him. But he even screwed this up. He wanted for Edge (oh, I'm sorry, "Adam") to die in a car crash. That's just awkward., and no one is going to cheer for him with that line.

 

Bottom line is yes, they could have made this angle better. But being overly smarky and making references to things that a percentage of people know isn't a good idea. I actually liked how they left the really internet things on just that: the internet. The Byte This crap was good, because cyber geeks such as ourselves are watching that, and we get a kick out of it. If they aired those promos on TV, the crowd wouldn't be quite responsive because of confusion, in my opinion.

[Sass 0]

The WWE should have aired the Byte This interview on the air after Matt attacked Edge. That could have set up the feud better...except Matt still gets to talk and help ruin the one great push he'll ever have.

[CanadianChick 0]

Yeah, I'm not sure having Matt flustered and Edge not would be a good way to get him over.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The WWE should have aired the Byte This interview on the air after Matt attacked Edge.  That could have set up the feud better...except Matt still gets to talk and help ruin the one great push he'll ever have.

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You would think Matt would have delivered some incredibly heated promos given what went down between he, Lita and Edge. Either Matt got it all out of his system on his website, or he was intentionally given a shitty promo to give. I'm guessing it wasn't the first option, given how badly he's been buried.

[Guest rawmvp]

I was wondering: Was that promo that Matt gave after shaking Vince's hand from a script or was it ad-libbed?

[CanadianChick 0]

I don't think there is such a thing as a ad-libbed promo these days.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't think there is such a thing as a ad-libbed promo these days.

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There isn't. The top stars get to work on their own promos, while the rest of the roster has to make do with whatever crap the writers give them, but no promo is truly ad-libbed.

[Guest rawmvp]

Adlib means to improvise and deliver extemporaneously. Hardy or other wrestlers are capable of doing this, as long as they get across a certain message.

[genius33 0]

congratulations rawmvp... you own a dictionary!

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Did he miss the point again?

[Guest Y2DAYDAY]

Cena's a big star that will only get bigger, whether anyone here likes it or not. The big questions is if he can get Rock, Austin, Hogan big and honestly, since there are only 3 guys on that list, it will be hard.

 

Everyone knows Vince has been looking for the next Hogan, Austin, or Rock, the next megastar that booms the business into pop culture, the guy even non-wrestling fans would recognize if he walked down the street, etc.

 

Can anybody with a straight face say that that guy is Jericho, RVD, Christian, Matt Hardy, or Booker T.? Booker is a lifetime midcarder/tag wrestler that only got the big push because, honestly this is the truth, he is black(remember the lawsuit against WCW for not pushing African-American wrestlers). I'm talking WCW 2000 and that was the legit reason they put the belt on him. He's a decent worker with good charisma but he isn't even main event caliber, not to mention the next Rock. He only got pushed in WWF during the invasion because the real WCW stars waited to come to WWF and it was him or Page.

 

Christian and Matt Hardy don't have the look. Simple enough. Both don't have main event potential either. Some guys are main eventers, some are not and these 2 are not.

 

RVD could have been a monster of a star. He was different, marketable, cool, flashy, charismatic, and although he didn't fit the mold Vince was looking for, he would have been worth a shot.

 

Chris Jericho's flaws have been covered numerous times before. He's only looked like a top guy 3 times in his career, his first program with HHH, the Rock program, and the 2 matches with Cena. He made it as a top guy, not a full-time tippety top guy but a top guy but the next Rock he isn't.

 

Something about John Cena says that out of everybody in the past 5 years, he has the best chance of replacing the previously mentioned big 3 stars. He has it all except the work rate but for a sub-par worker, he's had a lot of great matches this year, mostly with very good workers but still, Jericho and Angle never had 4 star matches with kane before but they did with Cena. Hell, they never did with Booker either and everyone thinks Booker is a good worker. Honestly, the workrate isn't an issue because in big matches, he usually deilvers.

 

It is worth a shot going for years with this guy all of the way.

 

RVD is the only one of the previously mentioned that could have maybe reached that level and even he is questionable.

[Guest rawmvp]

I took it to mean that they know what they're going to say, but improvise or adlib a bit during the actual promo. Mick Foley said he used to do this all the time.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I don't ever see Cena reaching that level. Those guys were already on that "elite" level before they won the World Championship, and during their title runs it peaked. Cena's title chase and reign thus far has really not spiked business much at all, and I don't think his star is going to get any bigger than it is now.

 

I think RVD was their best chance because he was a star that just sort of happened.. he didn't need to be forcefed down our throats, the minute he got out there people liked him for just being him.

[CanadianChick 0]

I took it to mean that they know what they're going to say, but improvise or adlib a bit during the actual promo. Mick Foley said he used to do this all the time.

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Now they have pure Hollywood writers though. There aren't promos anymore. There are only scripts.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Whether or not Raw got a 3.0 or a 7.1 doesn't matter. What DOES matter is the content of the show. This show's content was AWFUL. The only time ratings SHOULD matter for a fan or a smark is when you're seeing if a product's great content is helping the show go up. Since Raw and Smackdown! both are horrible stale shows, who gives a fuck about the ratings until you care about the product?

 

If TNA puts on multiple great shows in a row, then watch. But for now, why bother watching the ratings when you can't even watch the product?

[King Cucaracha 0]

People were never going to accept Matt Hardy as #1 face when his gimmick was basically 'whiney dumped boyfriend'. Like CC says, most younger males would be cheering for Edge because he got laid and suddenly became cooler for it. The rest of the males are going to be begging for someone to kick Matt's ass because he's whining all the time. The only fans Matt really gained were the same fans who loved him because he was 'hawt' and took his shirt off when he was in The Hardys.

 

As for Cena, the big problem is the WWE's insistance on turning him into the next Rock or the next Austin by making him like Rock and Austin. They've slowly been cutting into whatever individuality Cena had and going for the quick fix, which hasn't worked as well as they hoped. He got over. But not mega over. The main chance of him freshening up his character is to do another face-heel-face switch. But that'd be going backwards 2 years on the Rock/Austin timeline, plus for merchandise sake it won't happen.

[Caliban 0]

So the rating drops 0.6 from last week.

 

The rating dropped exactly the same amount this time last year.

 

It's not exactly unheard of.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Cena's being killed as much by bad booking as he is by anything he's doing to himself. Making him Anti-Authority Austin, v. 2005 is a shitty way to handle him. (Him vs. Bischoff is never going to have the same effect as Austin vs. McMahon did.) Having him wrestle a never ending series of handicap matches is a shitty way to handle him. They've changed his character and it's hurt his overness as a result.

 

And count me as someone that sincerely doubts that Matt Hardy had any chance of being over beyond this 'shoot' feud with Edge & Lita. He was midcard at best, and that was lost when he switched from Smackdown to Raw and modified the V.1 gimmick.

[Black Lushus 0]

I'm on the same page with niskie about Matt hardy, have been since the hints of his return first popped up...they've booked this fued so horribly, there's no way either man can come out looking good after this is all over...they might as well blow Edge's mitb shot on a random Raw because it's certainly not going to headline any PPVs...

[Dobbs 3K 0]

What's more pathetic is how the Cena/Bischoff "feud" started. Anyone remember? It was that shot of the two out in the parking garage during a RAW, where we couldn't even hear what they were saying! Just pathetic booking.

[Black Lushus 0]

Well, on top of that, who really cares about a Cena/Angle match other than the fact that Angle can get a good match out of him...haven't we already seen this fued on the OTHER brand this year already?

[cabbageboy 0]

Oh, if you think about it this Matt/Edge thing has killed the careers of virtually everyone involved, even on a periphery level. Kane? Matt threw him under the bus by saying his whole marriage to Lita was fake...not sure what they can do with him once he gets back. Edge himself? Hot heel with a skank girlfriend, was getting serious heat and looked to cash in the MITB shot and possibly get the title. But now? He's got no momentum and nobody would give him a shot at winning the title. Matt is of course being buried. Hell, even Gene Snitsky had his whole baby killer "It's not my fault" gimmick killed by this angle.

 

As far as someone like RVD goes, I don't think he would have ever been as big as Hogan or Austin. Over enough to headline? Sure. But he's too much of a cult figure to be a massive mainstream celeb.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

The Rebel Face vs. Authority Figure storyline is dead. No storyline in wrestler has been overused more. They just need to drop it.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Oh, if you think about it this Matt/Edge thing has killed the careers of virtually everyone involved, even on a periphery level.  Kane?  Matt threw him under the bus by saying his whole marriage to Lita was fake...not sure what they can do with him once he gets back.  Edge himself?  Hot heel with a skank girlfriend, was getting serious heat and looked to cash in the MITB shot and possibly get the title.  But now?  He's got no momentum and nobody would give him a shot at winning the title.  Matt is of course being buried.  Hell, even Gene Snitsky had his whole baby killer "It's not my fault" gimmick killed by this angle.

 

So are you saying if Matt kept kayfabe and acted like the Lita/Kane marriage was real while engaging in a shoot angle, things would be better for everyone involved?

[Black Lushus 0]

Kane has survived far worse than this, he always remains over...Kane will be just fine...

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

He's on his last legs though. Its not like he has a mask around to do an unmasking angle. How can they explained a renewed motivation for a Kane push?

[Black Lushus 0]

He's on his last legs though. Its not like he has a mask around to do an unmasking angle. How can they explained a renewed motivation for a Kane push?

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Damn fine question, sir...to that I say: I have no freaking clue....uhhhhh move him to Smackdown and pretend nothing ever happened?

 

I never understood why they were never happy with just pushing him as an unstoppable monster like they did with Batista and Lesnar...I mean, he can be booked to squash jobbers/lower-carders and can wrestle well enough to make people be able to sit through a Kane/Angle, Kane/Benoit etc. etc. match without resorting to retard-ery...

[nl5xsk1 0]

He's on his last legs though. Its not like he has a mask around to do an unmasking angle. How can they explained a renewed motivation for a Kane push?

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Damn fine question, sir...to that I say: I have no freaking clue....uhhhhh move him to Smackdown and pretend nothing ever happened?

 

I never understood why they were never happy with just pushing him as an unstoppable monster like they did with Batista and Lesnar...I mean, he can be booked to squash jobbers/lower-carders and can wrestle well enough to make people be able to sit through a Kane/Angle, Kane/Benoit etc. etc. match without resorting to retard-ery...

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