WWE's Direction:

[Guest Coffey]

I thought that maybe we could talk about WWE, as a whole, as it pertains to their television recently. First of all, does anyone think that the Batista for Cena trade was good? It seems as if Cena would've benefitted more from the fact that Smackdown is taped than Batista would. Not only that but if WWE traded Batista to Smackdown to "get him away from Triple H" it didn't make a lot of sense to "send Triple H home" right afterwards.

 

I think that the trade has hurt both Cena and Batista. Cena needed the workers on Smackdown to make him look better (and more credible) in the ring. Granted we got Angle on Raw now but on Smackdown, he could've worked with Benoit, Guerrero, even Regal. Now that Jericho has taken a "hiatus" that doesn't leave a whole lot for Cena on Raw. The impending feud with Triple H is on the horizon. That is if he doesn't lose the title to Angle first.

 

I thought that Batista was just starting to get over on Raw before they shipped him off. Now that UPN has moved Smackdown to Friday nights, Batista (along with the rest of Smackdown) is dead in the water. Perhaps with WWE going back to USA it would entice them to consider more trades? What state in the brand split in?

 

I'm just curious what WWE is planning for the future. I've read rumors that Austin Vs. Hogan is going to happen at Wrestlemania. That doesn't help the future at all, although I guess it might get some more buys for the show. If we're leading up to Cena Vs. Hunter where does that leave Batista? How much longer are WWE going to push Masters, Conway & Carlito? What about MNM, what are they going to do? Cade/Murdoch? Where's Kane? Is Edge going to win a major belt this year? It just seems like there's a lot of questions as it pertains to what anyone is actually doing. Flair just won the IC title and people are talking that it was just to make him look more credible in a feud with a returning HHH. So, where does that leave the IC title? Is HHH going to win it? On Smackdown, we have Kennedy and Burchill to watch for but what about the people like Booker T., Rey Misterio, Nunzio & Christian? What about the Mexicools?

 

The "Raw Homecoming" is in two weeks and it's apparent that WWE doesn't really know what to do. They're just stacking the show with a bunch of "big names" and hoping that people will watch. Does anyone want to see Cena Vs. Bischoff? What about another Hogan pose-a-thon? When is enough enough?

 

It just seems like WWE is coasting along until they get off of Spike TV but when they do finally get to USA, their wheels are going to still be stuck in the mud. Their re-debut show is going to be a "blast from the past" and two steps back. Meanwhile, Spike will be moving on with TNA on Saturdays and TUF and UFC on Mondays. It'll be sad if the "best of Raw on USA" 1-hour special turns out to be better than a live 3-hour "special edition" of Raw.

 

A lot of people seem to be losing interest in the product. It's been going on for awhile. Die-hard fans are finally giving it up. Even the Smackdown and Raw threads here on TSM are multiple pages shorter than what they used to be. Instead of people in WWE trying to patch things up, they bring back older names looking for "miracle answers" all the while people like Jim Ross have the time to make a weekly "Ross Report" and take shots at us, the fans that are miraculously still watching. What's WWE doing?

 

It's to the point where even the most loyal fans are pessimistic about everything. Whenever "good" news comes out, instead of praise and "what if's" we get "WWE will fuck it up" or the like. They say wrestling is cyclical. If WWE started going downhill at the InVasion PPV, when the hell are things going to start heading up again?

[razazteca 0]

First of all, does anyone think that the Batista for Cena trade was good? It seems as if Cena would've benefitted more from the fact that Smackdown is taped than Batista would.

Let's see what has Raw done with Cena since the trade:

 

1) Cena vs Jericho which had the champ spit Y2Cheap a million times.

2) Cena vs Christian which had the champ get put down with Marky Mark comments that made him look weak in debates.

3) Cena vs Angle which had the champ look bad in the ring because it is appearent that the olympian with a broken freakin neck and a moveset that consists of anklelock reversals and suplexes is still better than the pretty boy with the fireman carry and goofy sitout signature moves.

 

As you can see WWE did nothing but stunt whatever potential growth Cena could of made on Raw by making him "pay his dues".

 

What state in the brand split in?

Its time to end the brand split now. There is no depth in the midcard or the tag team divisions. Now giving the midcard belts to fan favorite vets looks like it is an attempt to give the belts some crediblity before it is given back to the young up and comings.

 

How much longer are WWE going to push Masters, Conway & Carlito? What about MNM, what are they going to do? Cade/Murdoch?

Until the writers find something for them to do in a positive way instead of having them work stupid gimmicks there is no future for them. End the split would help them.

 

So, where does that leave the IC title?

Giving the belt to HHH is a good thing, really it is, it gains some credibility before of course he drops it to somebody he thinks is worthy like say CM Punk.

 

what about the people like Booker T., Rey Misterio, Nunzio & Christian? What about the Mexicools?

They get the honor of repeating angles that was used in 1996-2000 and maybe put over the young talent like Burchill or Kennedy.....Kennedy.

 

Does anyone want to see Cena Vs. Bischoff?

Only if there are some Ernest Miller Cat-bo workout sessions.

 

What about another Hogan pose-a-thon? When is enough enough?

You can never get enough of Hulkamania......brotha.

[cabbageboy 0]

Do you seriously think HHH is going to drop down to the IC division? Remember the hell that caused in 2002 when they DARED to suggest to HHH that he hold the IC on Raw as the main title?

 

I don't think you guys have to worry about the split for too much longer. It was never going to work permanently and the death knell in my view was how badly Smackdown came out in the draft last year. They are just playing out the string on UPN and then next year the show is going to be history unless a new network is found.

 

The biggest problem with Smackdown of late is that there is simply no credible heel on the roster:

 

--JBL. It's over for him, and it looks like he's being put in a midcard comedy role now.

 

--Orton. Zero heat whatsoever, and feuding with UT won't help him any.

 

--Eddie. Jobbed the entire year to Rey and now soon to be jobbing to Batista.

 

--Orlando Jordan. Nuff said.

 

--Christian. Been jobbed out so much and buried that he seeminly isn't allowed to get over.

 

Basically the only heel I think is showing signs of life on Smackdown is Ken Kennedy. He's the only heel on the roster who hasn't been jobbed out and embarrassed.

[haVoc 0]

They're too God damn stubborn to end Smackdown. Vince won't admit he failed. Vince and Linda won't want to lose money from advertisements and investors. Steph won't admit she can't handle two "major" TV shows and Triple H doesn't like to share.

 

The first obstacle is getting over themselves.

[notJames 0]

Which will never happen.

 

And SD! moving to Friday is bullshit. Already, I've yet to see the show on a Friday. It's always being pre-empted by baseball. As for RAW, it definitely took a backseat to the MNF doubleheader, even though they were two games that were pretty boring. When I'm willing to sit through a dog like Washington v. Dallas (two teams that I hate), that says a lot about the quality of WW_.

 

Can't wait for Oct. 3rd... to see what Spike TV has in store.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

If anybody can find some positives about WWE in 2005 I'd love to hear them.

[razazteca 0]

Do you seriously think HHH is going to drop down to the IC division? Remember the hell that caused in 2002 when they DARED to suggest to HHH that he hold the IC on Raw as the main title?

All I remember is HHH beating Ric Flair for a championship belt.

 

If anybody can find some positives about WWE in 2005 I'd love to hear them.

Ric Flair on Raw and HBK vs Angle matches were entertaining.

[JoeDirt 0]

I tend to think that WWE wanting Cena on their flagship show and USA wanting Cena on RAW are the main reasons why he was moved there. I doubt they thought at all about it being taped or live, how many good workers he had around him, etc.

 

I predict at Mania we see Hogan vs. Cena and Batista vs. Orton headline.

 

I guess we'll have to look to the undercard for the good matches, just like this year.

[BUTT 0]

They're too God damn stubborn to end Smackdown. Vince won't admit he failed. Vince and Linda won't want to lose money from advertisements and investors. Steph won't admit she can't handle two "major" TV shows and Triple H doesn't like to share. 

 

The first obstacle is getting over themselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thus explaining why getting rid of Smackdown would be a horrible idea.

[cabbageboy 0]

That isn't the point. My point is that next year they might not have to worry about Smackdown period. As in it'll get cancelled and won't exist unless they can find a new network. I know it'll of course be awful to lose the money the show brings.

 

I still say Cena/Hogan has no real ring to it, although I can't hate on it too much since I did say in another thread this idea makes more sense than Hogan/Austin. At least the idea here is to put Cena over (at least I would HOPE so), whereas Hogan/Austin would be two old guys jerking each other off.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

I would like them to end the split and make PPV's mean something again, reunite Tag Titles and at WrestleMania reunite the World and WWE Title in a Batista vs. Cena match where Batista turns monster Heel. It would be exciting again, now everything is just meh. I'm hoping they start doing some cool stuff on USA again.

[Guest Coffey]

There's a lot of things that I'd like to see, personally, but that doesn't mean that they'd ever happen or that they'd be good for business.

 

The brand split, obviously, being one of those things that would "be bad for business" that I'd like to see. I don't get UPN, so I can't watch Smackdown. So, I just can't even watch Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, etc. I can't watch the development of Ken Kennedy, Paul Burchill or MNM. I'm just left out in the cold unless I download the show.

 

I'd like to see WWE only have, like, four or so PPV's a year again. Obviously that's not going to happen. If it did happen though, the shows on TV would mean more. If, for no other reason, than because they'd have longer to build towards matches and shit. It'd give WWE more time to invest into storylines so that they can sell the PPV to people better. Once again, "bad for business."

 

I'd like to see Maria have a bigger role on Raw. I don't think that'd be a very popular opinion. She's attractive and does her role well, so I'd like to see her in a storyline. It doesn't have to be anything drawn out or in-depth. Just something simple, like, someone likes her but she's too dumb to notice. Maybe switch it around the other way. She likes someone but whenever she tries to send hints or let them know, she fucks up and does something stupid. Just simple things like that which stay true to characters but invest time into them so that the crowd and fans will give a shit.

 

I just want some new, different stuff. I'm currently downloading Smackdown because I saw that the main event was Batista/Eddie Vs. MNM. I haven't seen MNM in the main event before and I'm interested in how the Batista/Eddie feud/storyline is going to play out, so I'm going out of my way to actually watch the show.

 

EDIT:

Well, that was pretty much a waste of time. Eddie was "taken out" of the match because he was "sick." Then the whole show focused on generic comedy skits of him being sick. During the main event, Batista basically squashed both members of MNM and then Eddie hit a Frog Splash to "steal" the victory that Batista "earned." Meh, more of the same old shit, which is what the problem with the product continues to be.

 

I don't mind watching people like Chris Masters get a push. He's at least something new, too bad his character/gimmick isn't. He's not an amazing worker but I think he has enough tools to succeed. He's a decent talker and has a good look. He'll get better in the ring and is already a good enough seller. After he seemingly gets some monster push, how do I feel as a fan when his first PPV is a loss against Michaels? The same Michaels that just lost to Hogan the month before? It's all just unbelievable and hokey. Factor in the low points of his character and you find the "same old shit" phrase again. The Masterlock? A big guy that uses a Full Nelson that claims "it can't be broken." I've seen that with Billy Jack Hayes, Hercules & Warlord all in the WWF just off the top of my head.

 

If someone asked me why I watch wrestling, I don't know if I could give them a real answer. I watch WWE out of habit. I watch ROH, etc. because it's not WWE so it's an entirely different experience. I don't know why I got drawn into wrestling as a kid. I remember wanting to see Hogan but I don't know why. It had to have been his charisma and larger-than-life persona. That stuff doesn't interest me anymore I guess. Now I like to see innovative moves and storylines that make sense, I guess. I don't want to see a bunch of stars from yesteryear returning to pop a crowd, upstage an up-and-comer or shill a book. Sting Vs. the nWo drew me into WCW. So, in that case, it was a good storyline that brought me in. That doesn't mean that I want to see Sting show up now and take out people like Masters or Cena.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

[the pretty boy with the fireman carry and goofy sitout signature moves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what a fireman's carry is, but what is "goofy sitout signature moves" supposed to mean?

[Guest Coffey]

Well, I know he randomly does it with his arm drag move. It's annoying. He also has that powerbomb move that Val Venis used to use. Blue Thunder.

[Angle-plex 0]

I'd like to see WWE only have, like, four or so PPV's a year again. Obviously that's not going to happen. If it did happen though, the shows on TV would mean more. If, for no other reason, than because they'd have longer to build towards matches and shit. It'd give WWE more time to invest into storylines so that they can sell the PPV to people better.

 

Except that they can't even write storylines for four weeks without repeating them every other week. Remember the constant rematches during Cena/Jericho? Ugh.

[Guest Coffey]

Well, I think part of the reason it happens like that is because they have to build to a PPV match in three to four weeks instead of in three to four months. If they had to build longer, they could use storylines and shit that lasted longer than from one Monday to the next. Instead they try to slap some quick heat on some mother-fucker to "build him up" for a PPV match in, like, three weeks. So we get handicap matches that make Cena look like he doesn't have a chance and to put "this isn't fair" heat on the heels.

[Da Maintenance Man 0]

Well, I know he randomly does it with his arm drag move. It's annoying. He also has that powerbomb move that Val Venis used to use. Blue Thunder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow, I'm the only one here who marks for the sitout hiptoss...or even Cena himself for that matter...

[razazteca 0]

[the pretty boy with the fireman carry and goofy sitout signature moves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what a fireman's carry is, but what is "goofy sitout signature moves" supposed to mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The sitdown armdrag and the protoplex.

 

Wow, I'm the only one here who marks for the sitout hiptoss...or even Cena himself for that matter... unsure.gif

Cena needs a new finisher I would not mind if he did use the Val Venis Blue Thunder or Falcon Arrow as his regular finisher.

[Guest Coffey]

Well, if they're trying to take him the Steve Austin route, he'll need a finisher that he can hit quickly and a lot in a row like Austin had the Stunner. The F-U requires too much set-up. You can't really do drive-by F-U's.

 

I'd like to see him switch his gear up a little bit. He comes out with a visor and a team jersey then wrestles in blue jean shorts. Why can't he, for example, come out wearing a beanie and a tank top every now and then? Just little things.

[Black Lushus 0]

I predict at Mania we see Hogan vs. Cena and Batista vs. Orton headline.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Joe, I know you usually know your shit when it comes to wrestling, but if you don't think HHH isn't going to somehow be in the main event at WM, you're insane...

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Cena/HHH, Hogan/Austin, Batista/Orton will be the 3 matches.

[Promoter 0]

Those 3 matches actually COULD have potential, but with the way they have screwed up in the last year with things I'm not holding out hope. This is what I mean......JBL's long lasting reign ending in the fashion it did at Mania and crowning Cena with the belt didn't come off as it should have. They screwed that up and tried to make up for it in the following ppv, but it just didn't feel right.

 

Batista ending Evolution, but somehow it turned into the Triple H show anyways with his leave of absence. I think they have only NOW been doing Batista's character of cool, calm, and collected with Guerrero on smackdown. They killed off why people were liking him in the first place. They screwed up the heat Orton had from last year summer time obviously with the nonsense storyline that led to him winning the title and turning face.

 

I can understand them wanting the mother of all matches at Mania with Hogan/Austin and it CAN be built that way, but it won't. I'm sure a lot of fans out there have just given up with the wwe just not being consistent in delivering the goods. Hogan/Austin will suck in the ring too obviously. They don't have the storytelling of the attitude era to make the match be what it really is which is the biggest clash between the biggest stars of the WrestleMania era. It will be lame. They got away with the crappy stuff with Hogan/Rock because it was Hogan's return. I know a way they can do the angle to make the match seem like Hogan/Andre, but I'm positive they won't do it. They just need to follow Hogan/Andre's storyline and tweak it and I'll leave it at that, but it will be some nonsense like Hogan/Rock in 2002.

 

Cena should just run with the damn belt and have Triple H put him over the way JBL's monster reign was suppose to end to usher in Cena. However, I have my doubts seeing Triple H lose at 3 Mania shows in a row. He's most likely setting himself up to dethrone Cena at Mania which I just can't get excited over. Batista/Orton can actually be an extension of the Evolution story, but they'll do something completely opposite and make people not care. Look how quick the heat died for Orton and Taker since Mania 21. Even HBK/Angle they've messed up. They did the re-match out of nowhere when they could have done much better because there was anticipation to see a rematch between the two, but they rushed it for a minor ppv. Hell, HBK as a tweener was pretty entertaining when he was up against Hogan, but he's back to his boring HBK again because of his ego of not wanting to get any boos. Cena against heel HBK would be great to see right after this Angle feud.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Considering Hunter doesn't think much of Cena, I can see him going over Cena at Mania. The question is whether Vince is stupid enough to buy into Hunter's bullshit reasons for doing so.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

If anybody can find some positives about WWE in 2005 I'd love to hear them.

 

Batista and Cena being crowned world champions due to popular demand.

The HHHIAC Streak finally ending.

HHH off TV for a nice 3 months after jobbing 3 PPVs in a row.

The WWE Championship being the main focus of WWE Programming once again

Chris Jericho maineventing a PPV.

Angle Vs. Michaels and Orton Vs. The Undertaker at WM 21

Hogan Vs. Michaels

Ken Kennedy

Eddie Guerrero finally beating Rey Mysterio and ending easily the worst angle this year so far

Matt Hardy being rehired

Ric Flair winning the IC title (?)

[Black Lushus 0]

are they ever going to do a UT/Batista program? Not sure I want that, but I'm sure most of the fans out there do...

[Guest *KNK*]

are they ever going to do a UT/Batista program?  Not sure I want that, but I'm sure most of the fans out there do...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It'd be usuable place-holder feud in between Eddy and Orton for Batista but I really can't figure out how they world even set that program up and quite frankly, Im afraid to know what they will do judging from the Eddy/Batista program already.

[Black Lushus 0]

well, if they continue to have big plans for Batista for at least the next few years, ending UT's WM streak could be a decent way to go...maybe not? Whoever eventually does that will get the big time rub, of course the problem with doing that is that they would never have anyone that could believably beat Batista, since that would probably be the pinnacle of "unbeatable"...

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I am starting to think they will keep the Taker Mania streak intact. They had two straight years of perfect opportunities to do it.

 

2004- one of Taker's arguably biggest rivals, Kane, could have ended the streak, re-established himself as a badass main eventer and finally gets that important win over Taker. (Though I can see how they couldn't go with that result, since Taker had just returned that night and they wouldn't want him to job on his return match)

 

2005- Randy Orton....Legend Killer...enough said.

[Guest *KNK*]

well, if they continue to have big plans for Batista for at least the next few years, ending UT's WM streak could be a decent way to go...maybe not?  Whoever eventually does that will get the big time rub, of course the problem with doing that is that they would never have anyone that could believably beat Batista, since that would probably be the pinnacle of "unbeatable"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The window of opportunity to end The Undertaker's streak closed this year. Batistia already has the "rub" of winning the world title in the main event of WrestleMania; giving him the "rub" of defeating the Undertaker @ WrestleMania doesn't serve much good to anyone involved.

 

I'd rather and I can't believe I am saying this; see Batista/Orton over Batista/UT @ WrestleMania 22.

 

Smackdown has no other faces they could really push into it's main event besides Batista, with a small case to be considered with Chris Benoit. The Undertaker shouldn't be "main eventing" WM and rather be used as a special attraction.

 

Randy Orton, by all purposes is Smackdown's "top" heel and there's already the long backstory for that match-up as opposed to Undertaker/Batista.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

If anybody can find some positives about WWE in 2005 I'd love to hear them.

 

Batista and Cena being crowned world champions due to popular demand.

The HHHIAC Streak finally ending.

HHH off TV for a nice 3 months after jobbing 3 PPVs in a row.

The WWE Championship being the main focus of WWE Programming once again

Chris Jericho maineventing a PPV.

Angle Vs. Michaels and Orton Vs. The Undertaker at WM 21

Hogan Vs. Michaels

Ken Kennedy

Eddie Guerrero finally beating Rey Mysterio and ending easily the worst angle this year so far

Matt Hardy being rehired

Ric Flair winning the IC title (?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ya know, HHH once jobbed on PPV three times in a row a long time ago to a lil Canadian fella they called Chris Benoit.

 

Jericho ME'ing a PPV means dick-all and didn't help Jericho.

 

Kennedy is the most overrated thing to hit the 'net since God knows when.

 

Eddy beat Rey. Holy shit, that's never happened before.

 

Hogan vs Michaels was good for what it was but lost 90% of it's heat when they shook hands at the end. Proof is in the crowd reaction.

 

Yeah! They rehired Matt! Yeah! And now he's going to be banished to Smackdown to job to Ken Kennedy and Bobby Lashley! Whoooooo!

 

And the supposed "wrestling title" is around the waist of one of the worst workers on their rosters and easily the worst champion they have right now. Cena, Batista, Benoit, Nunzio and yes even the fucking Road Warriors are better then this old horse. Time for the glue factory, Ric. I can only pray that the reformation of Evolution happens and he sticks to managing.