The OAO RAW thread - 11/07/05

[geniusMoment 0]

Basically, to save him they need to redo his entire character. He needs to come out one night, rip on the male fans for booing, calling them out on their jealousy. He then needs to give a heart felt, long promo where he shows the bitterness built up inside him because of the boos. He then needs to get an extreme edge, where he massacres people for no good reason. After a few months men will begin to respect him as a wrestler, and he will still have the looks to attract females, even though his new attitude might be somewhat of a turn-off.

[iggymcfly 0]

OR they could stop trying to force him into being a face, let him play the goofy poser, and find someone the 20 something males can get behind to go up against him.

 

Is it really unreasonable for Angle to play a tweener, do "heelish" things that makes the girls and the kiddies boo, and still act cool enough for the guys to cheer him? This black and white cookie cutter bullshit is what makes me embarrassed to watch Raw the 20 minutes or so a month when I do, and makes me not watch it the rest of the time.

[Guest New Jake]

Cena's main problem is not down to himself. It's the way he's being booked. He must stop being booked like a week babyface champion; someone who's only good at beating guys in below avarage matches. If you look back to when he started out as a heel, you'll notice fans did have that enthusiasm for him. Just check out his match with Brock Lesnar.

 

Now since Cena has gone to RAW, he has spent the last 3 months being pounced buy main eventers like Jericho/Angle and mid-card losers like Carlito. That and he's been spending a lot of RAW's in the same lame ass tag main event (Cena/HBK vs Angle/Masters). It's no fucking wander the fans are starting to lose faith in him. He isn't being booked legitemately.

[Scroby 0]

I think Cena's problem is the fact they've kept the belt on him for so long he's starting to look stale. Everytime he feuds with someone, that person beats him in regular matches then when the big title defense comes, Cena wins and retains. Its the same formula WWE has used with Cena for awhile now. I think its just time for Cena to drop the belt to help better establish himself again.

[Guest New Jake]

Exactly. Who wants to have faith in a champion that even a fucking ref can KO as we saw last night. What the fuck is that dead gimmick (Daivari) doing back anyhow?

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Is this leading to the roster split ending? Eric Bischoff versus Teddy Long at SS, RAW versus SD! at SS. They might as well have Bisch and Long decide who becomes the GM of both shows.

[hyperchord24 0]

Wow. What a show. Lots of wrestling, no mcmahons, less HHH and good use of talent. Strange.

 

Let me just say that everything the IWC and people here have been saying about Shelton is true. I’ve never seen him wrestle. I just thought the IWC loved b/c he got a clean win over HHH a while back. Well, after watching that match, I’m sold. You guys talk about workrate, selling, ring-psychology, mic work and charisma, shleton’s got it all. He sold that knee injury beautifully. I actually cared about that match b/c I was afraid they were going to bury him. I don’t think they did. Carlito’s win was shit and everyone knows it. I just hope they address it next week, but they prob won’t. What I can’t understand is why Carlito can’t do his finisher! For Christ sakes, if he’s gonna win, give him a finisher. I tend to think that this is an angle for Shelton, but then again, if the WWE’s plan is to push carlito to the moon, there aren’t a lot of faces on the raw roster for him to go over. So Shelton was this week’s rent-a-face. Great stuff though. Poor Shelton.

 

This stuff with angle and cena is complete bs! Let the fans decide who they want to cheer or boo. Haven’t they learned from “die, rocky, die?” Fans don’t like faces and heels being shoved down their throat. So Angle cut a “monster” heel promo. Maybe I want to respect him for his in ring work and the sacrifices he’s made for me, the fans, and this business. It is not up to the WWE to decide that for me. And as for Daivari? That was random, until I realized that they want angle to get the CHEAP foreigner heel heat. That’s just being lazy. What a cheap way of getting angle over as a heel. It just shows how desperate and retarded WWE writers are. As for cena, he’s one of 3 babyfaces on raw. They need him to stay that way, or, god forbit, push another face into the limelight, like Shelton. But that the quandary. I could’ve sworn when I read about the main event, someone was going to turn. Stupid me.

 

I do find mcmahon and co. dropping out of sight and burying the whole SCSA and jr storyline a very good thing to do. I half expected vince to come out first thing and shoot on Austin for walking out. Kudos for staying backstage.

 

In conclusion, more Shelton, please!

[Black Lushus 0]

wellllll let's not get too upset over Daivari just YET...we don't know if he's going to still be the evil arab or just a regular asshole helping out Angle...yes the evil foreigner heat will carry over at first, but we don't know if that's the route they're going to go just yet...though it would be kinda funny seeing Daivari go off in his language while Angle gives him those great annoyed/frustrated looks he does wondering what the hell he's saying...

 

oh and Shelton is the man EXCEPT for mic work...he's another Benoit, he gets over in the ring, NOT on the mic...I wonder if the heat that Carlito got last night was because a. it's Carlito b. he beat Shelton c. the crowd hated the finish (which we all did) or d. all of the above...

[hyperchord24 0]

I think he's not that bad on the mic. Oh and all of the above, probably

[Black Lushus 0]

i don't know what it was, but that finish got some serious heat...however, I like Carlito for what he is, he's playing his role perfectly...but dammit I'm sick of seeing Shelton get buried...

[humongous2002 0]

Shelton is a good worker but he lacks charisma when he has a mic in front of him, he either needs a manager or more mic time so he could get comfortable with cutting promos.

Overall last night's Raw was enjoyable and I'm glad that Joey Styles is part of the announcing team.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah the only real negative of Raw last night was the baffling continuation of the Carlito push. It's funny that Carlito is trying to get over as a serious wrestler and is disregarding the Cabana since the Cabana is the only thing that got him over! It certainly isn't his god awful ring work. Also, it makes Shelton look doubly worse since he keeps jobbing out to Carlito after Carlito gets squashed by Foley, loses to the FIGURE FOUR twice, etc.

[Foshi 0]

Aren't there supposed to be 5 guys for each of the survivor series teams? I only know HBK, Big Show, Kane, and Carlito. Am I missing someone?

[humongous2002 0]

I think Masters will be the 5th member.

[Guest *KNK*]

Aren't there supposed to be 5 guys for each of the survivor series teams? I only know HBK, Big Show, Kane, and Carlito. Am I missing someone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They weren't going to announce it yet. It's more logical for Eric to keep the 5th man a mystery to give his team an "edge".

 

I'm guessing Team Smackdown will be the same group from T.T minus Christian. I'd bet Lashley takes Christian's spot.

[hyperchord24 0]

Isn't SS traditionally 8-man elimination tag matches?

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Ken Kennedy takes that spot

 

 

 

KENNEDY! (I know...lame)

 

 

 

 

lame

[hyperchord24 0]

Ken Kennedy takes that spot

 

 

 

KENNEDY! (I know...lame)

 

 

 

 

lame

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's Mr Kennedy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kennedy to you

[Black Lushus 0]

Isn't SS traditionally 8-man elimination tag matches?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the first few S. Series featured 5 man teams...

[Guest *KNK*]

Isn't SS traditionally 8-man elimination tag matches?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's been both of them, 1987-1988, 1994, 2001, 03, 04 were 5 on 5. The rest that had any SS matches were 4 on 4.

 

Only Show that didnt include any sort of SS match is 1998...

[Guest New Jake]

Aren't there supposed to be 5 guys for each of the survivor series teams? I only know HBK, Big Show, Kane, and Carlito. Am I missing someone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only 3 major players the fans truly give a legitemate fuck about (HBK, Big Show and Kane). Way to stink up this years SS match. Why not Shelton? He has alot more to benefit from this then Carlito.

[Guest Leelee]

Geez people, what is the big deal with Angle being more heelish? It's a smart business move to make Angle as hated as possible. God forbid WWE doesn't want their face champion to be outcheered by their heel contender.

 

People over exaggerate the jeering Cena gets anyways. He's not exactly Rocky from '97, or even Michaels at MSG against Sid. He got a good pop tonight with no audible booing. If WWE helped with that cause, so be it. That's what they're suppose to do. Why do people want to see Cena fail anyways?

 

It's not that there was a problem... it's smart to do that, especially with Angle. It was just so noticeable that WWE was doing anything to make it Cena YAYAYAYA Angle BOOOOOO. I don't want to see Cena fail because he has outstanding charisma... but, I'm surprised the crowd hasn't completely turned on his very lame character in the past year, or so.

[hyperchord24 0]

Geez people, what is the big deal with Angle being more heelish? It's a smart business move to make Angle as hated as possible. God forbid WWE doesn't want their face champion to be outcheered by their heel contender.

 

People over exaggerate the jeering Cena gets anyways. He's not exactly Rocky from '97, or even Michaels at MSG against Sid. He got a good pop tonight with no audible booing. If WWE helped with that cause, so be it. That's what they're suppose to do. Why do people want to see Cena fail anyways?

 

It's not that there was a problem... it's smart to do that, especially with Angle. It was just so noticeable that WWE was doing anything to make it Cena YAYAYAYA Angle BOOOOOO. I don't want to see Cena fail because he has outstanding charisma... but, I'm surprised the crowd hasn't completely turned on his very lame character in the past year, or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I can't stand when it's so transparent on who the WWE wants you to cheer for. That's not how rocky, SCSA or even vince got over.

[Dangerous A 0]

Ok, I've watched all the way up to the main event tag, but I have some questions and I'd appreciate if someone can give me "logical" answers to.

 

 

When did Bischoff get the power to start making Smackdown matches? Aren't Bischoff and Long feuding? Why would Long agree to have a Raw guy wrestle his champion? This entire scenario makes no logical sense from a feud standpoint.

 

 

I was listening to Figure Four Daily and they brought up a good point about logic gaps in the heel ref match tonight (and almost all heel ref matches that have ever existed) They said that Masters had a bear hug on either Cena or HBK and that Davairi asked whether the guy wanted to submit. Why did he even ask him? Why didn't he just lie and say that he submitted? He's a heel ref. His whole intent and purpose is to help the heel team cheat and win. What better way to do that then lie about whether a face submitted in a submission hold? The one time this worked was when Bret Hart was in the sharpshooter at Survivor Series in 97 and Vince said "ring the fuckin bell". Worked like a charm.(and yes, I'm taking into account Vince wasn't the "official" referee, but he supercedes them because he's the fuckin owner) Note to wrestlers in the heel ref matches in the future. No submissions unless that is the finish. It's a huge logic gap.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Looks like WWE did some damage control by reminding people that Kurt is the heel (I loved that promo he cut, very powerful stuff) although I wonder how long they can strech it with Cena, unless they do some tweaking with his character, this roadblock isn't going to last for long.

 

I was extremely pissed they did not give Rob Conway the IC title, I was totally expecting HHH to cost Flair the match and its fucking bullshit that God damn Carlito is on the RAW team and not Shelton!!!

 

Only Show that didnt include any sort of SS match is 1998...

 

2002

[slimm44 0]

I'm just waiting to see the Power 25 this week to see Daivari on there for taking Cena out, and Benjamin off since he lost to Carlito

[hyperchord24 0]

I was listening to Figure Four Daily and they brought up a good point about logic gaps in the heel ref match tonight (and almost all heel ref matches that have ever existed) They said that Masters had a bear hug on either Cena or HBK and that Davairi asked whether the guy wanted to submit. Why did he even ask him? Why didn't he just lie and say that he submitted? He's a heel ref. His whole intent and purpose is to help the heel team cheat and win. What better way to do that then lie about whether a face submitted in a submission hold? The one time this worked was when Bret Hart was in the sharpshooter at Survivor Series in 97 and Vince said "ring the fuckin bell". Worked like a charm.(and yes, I'm taking into account Vince wasn't the "official" referee, but he supercedes them because he's the fuckin owner) Note to wrestlers in the heel ref matches in the future. No submissions unless that is the finish. It's a huge logic gap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. This is a problem that I've wanted to discuss concerning heel refs or even heel authority figures. If the whole idea is to cheat to win, that opens up a huge slippery slope. Why not DQ the face as soon as the match starts by "seeing" a foreign object, or something else related. Why even try to be fair? Also, something that's bothered me (from a feud standpoint) with the vince vs. austin fued is why drag it out? Why didn't vince just strip the belt from austin. This applies to all authority figures.

[Guest Leelee]

You can even go further than that... why did Angle & Masters bother tagging each other? Why didn't they just both beat up whichever face is in the ring, while Daivari yells at the other face to hold onto the ring rope? Why didn't Daivari give constant cheap shots to the faces during the match? Instead of slow counting during pin attempts by faces, why doesn't he break them up?

 

Don't think while watching wrestling.

[naiwf 0]

Don't think while watching wrestling. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why should I give Vince what he wants, when he chooses not to give me what I want, ie a quality product?

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

So I've got it right, the top babyface was laid out by a referee, correct?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm OK with it considering he hit him w/ a chair when his back was turned. What they should have done, though, was have Cena grab Daivari before he got out of the ring and FU him, then dare Angle to get back into the ring.

 

I actually thought that's what they were going to do, since Angle & Daivari took their sweet time before exiting the ring. Kurt left 1st, so it would have made sense for Cena to grab Daivari while Angle still got away. As it was, Cena had to stay down for way too long.