Loose Change 2nd Edition

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Wonderful. Now we're onto aliens.

 

Let me explain to you the environment around the Pentagon.

 

To the South is Crystal City, with a Huge Mall, Costco, several hotels, restaurants,etc. It is packed with people everyday. Oh, and 395 Interstate

 

To the East is the Potomac River and Bay area. Directly across Route 1 and GW Parkway (two highways that are literally right next to each other there) is a huge Marina, full of private boats. It too is busy every day.

 

To the North is Arlington Cemetary and Fort Myer. Beyond that, Rosslyn, where I live. People saw the big f'ing plane flying low over Rosslyn, but probably didnt think anything of it, since all planes fly low over Rosslyn to get into Reagan National.

 

To the West is Washington Blvd, which crosses 395.

 

Seriously now people. You don't see people protesting the 9/11 coverup in Northern Virginia, because pretty much everyone SAW it or heard it, or knows someone who did.

 

And the face on Mars was proven to be caused by light infraction.

 

WHOOO~! CONSPIRACY LIZARD PEOPLE!

 

Nigga Please, go listen to Art Bell

[Justice 0]

You know, CE has really fallen low when multiple people are honestly arguing and getting angry about the government not releasing stuff about 'UFOs'.

 

Kotz, what fucking proof are you talking about? There are tons of rumors, urban legends, and all sorts of stuff like that, but Christ, it isn't like there is any real, concrete evidence out there that we can refer to and say "Look, the government is definitely lying to us!" I mean, consider this: If the government really doesn't have anything on aliens, and has come out about it more than once, what makes them coming out now any different? And if they really do have that sort of stuff, what difference does it make in our lives right now? You can't make some sort of assertion like this when there isn't anything outside of gross speculation on the subject.

 

Shit, I can't believe you have me fucking arguing about aliens. Hell, why don't we get started on the coalition of gnomes living in the depths of the Alps who secretly control the diamond trade while we're at it?

[Art Sandusky 0]

Man, the things a hangover will make you post. I make no excuse for myself. I've been a bitch the last couple'a days.

 

Although it was funny to see that we'll argue about anything.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

There are aliens...and they live with the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot on Mars. They fly to Earth in black helicopters supplied by the CIA.

 

See, here's a picture of one. http://ufologie.net/pics/vtuav01.jpg. That proves everything right there!

 

And look, a comic book based on Bigfoot: http://www.steveniles.com/gallery/bigfoot/...ot01_001?full=1. This proves his existence.

 

Finally, the famous picture of the Loch Ness Monster. Yes, the guy who took it admitted it was faked on his death bed, but that doesn't mean it's not really the Loch Ness Monster! http://www.castleofspirits.com/ness2.gif

 

See, I could make a documentary just like the one in the original post!

[Vampiro69 0]

The ailens are lizard people. I saw this on TV and the humans defeated the lizard people by trapping their essence in a black diamond. No wait, that was an episode of "Justice League" called Eclipsed. Never Mind.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

Bush Defector To Demolish

911 Lies On May 6

4-18-6

 

The former top economist in Bush's Department of Labor, Morgan Reynolds, will speak out on the 9/11 inside job at the State Historical Society, University of Wisconsin-Madison on Saturday, May 6th. The film Loose Change will be shown, and refreshments served, starting at 1 p.m, and Reynolds will speak at 3:00 p.m.

 

Dr. Reynolds, who holds three U.W.-Madison degrees, and who is currently Professor of Economics at Texas A&M University, will present evidence that top Bush Administration officials orchestrated the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center, and the murder of almost 2,500 Americans, as a pretext for initiating their pre-planned "long war" in the Middle East.

 

"While more Americans doubt the 9/11 story every week, evidence abounds that many have a mental block against rational examination of the evidence about 9/11" writes Dr. Reynolds in a recent article. This mental block, he thinks, amounts to willful ignorance-not just about 9/11, but about history.

 

"Governments throughout history have provoked or staged attacks on their own people to serve the powers behind the throne ('the money power'), glorify themselves, engage in vast government spending, reward friends, exert domestic control, stimulate the juices of war, annex neighbors and pursue vast geostrategic rearrangements (the 'global domination project)" Reynolds asserts. He notes that every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on the "Operation Northwoods" plan to murder Americans in fake "Cuban terrorist" attacks in 1962. The planned Operation Northwoods murders of ordinary Americans in fake terrorist bombings and a fake "airliner shoot-down" would have involved hundreds of military and intelligence personnel. Yet the existence of Operation Northwoods was successfully kept secret from the American people for forty years until James Bamford revealed it in his book Body of Secrets, published in January 2002.

 

Though government officials have historically been able to successfully conceal their fake or arranged war-trigger attacks long enough to avoid being hanged for treason, Reynolds thinks the 9/11 cover-up has already unraveled. "Skepticism about conspiracy, small or large, is somewhat beside the point in the case of 9/11 because the official Osama-and-Nineteen-Young-Arabs (ONYA) conspiracy tale is so farcical and impossible. Nearly everyone in America has easy access to the internet and hundreds of websites expose the 9/11 fraud." (Morgan Reynolds, "Conspiracy and Closed Minds on 9/11": http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911 )

 

Reynolds argues that the Twin Towers and World Trade Center Building 7 were destroyed in a manner that can only be explained by controlled demolition with pre-planted explosives-which should not be surprising, since no steel framed high-rises have ever collapsed in the way the three World Trade Center buildings did for any other reason. In his article "Why Did the World Trade Center Skyscrapers Collapse?" Reynolds writes that among the many features of the WTC demolitions that suggest explosives, rather than jet-fuel fires, are:

 

1. Fire had never before caused steel-frame buildings to collapse except for the three buildings on 9/11, nor has fire collapsed any steel high rise since 9/11.

 

2. The fires, especially in the South Tower and WTC-7, were small.

 

3. WTC-7 was unharmed by an airplane and had only minor fires on the seventh and twelfth floors of this 47-story steel building yet it collapsed in less than 10 seconds.

 

4. WTC-5 and WTC-6 had raging fires but did not collapse despite much thinner steel beams (pp. 68-9).

 

5. In a PBS documentary, Larry Silverstein, the WTC lease-holder, recalled talking to the fire department commander on 9/11 about WTC-7 and said, ".maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it," slang for demolish it.

 

6. FEMA, given the uninviting task of explaining the collapse of Building 7 with mention of demolition verboten admitted that the best it could come up with had "only a low probability of occurrence."

 

7. It's difficult if not impossible for hydrocarbon fires like those fed by jet fuel (kerosene) to raise the temperature of steel close to melting.

 

Professional demolition, by contrast, can explain all of these facts and more. Demolition means placing explosives throughout a building, and detonating them in sequence to weaken "the structure so it collapses or folds in upon itself". In conventional demolitions gravity does most of the work, although it probably did a minority on

 

9/11, so heavily were the towers honeycombed with explosives.

 

1. Each WTC building collapse occurred at virtually free-fall speed (approximately 10 seconds or less).

 

2. Each building collapsed, for the most part, into its own footprint.

 

3. Virtually all the concrete (an estimated 100,000 tons in each tower) on every floor was pulverized into a very fine dust, a phenomenon that requires enormous energy and could not be caused by gravity alone (".workers can't even find concrete. 'It's all dust,' [the official] said").

 

4. Dust exploded horizontally for a couple hundred feet, as did debris, at the beginning of each tower's collapse.

 

5. Collapses were total, leaving none of the massive core columns sticking up hundreds of feet into the air.

 

6. Salvage experts were amazed at how small the debris stacks were.

 

7. The steel beams and columns came down in sections under 30 feet long and had no signs of "softening"; there was little left but shorn sections of steel and a few bits of concrete.

 

8. Photos and videos of the collapses all show "demolition waves," meaning "confluent rows of small explosions" along floors (blast sequences).

 

9. According to many witnesses, explosions occurred within the buildings.

 

10. Each collapse had detectable seismic vibrations suggestive of underground explosions, similar to the 2.3 earthquake magnitude from a demolition like the Seattle Kingdome (p. 108).

 

11. Each collapse produced molten steel identical to that generated by explosives, resulting in "hot spots" that persisted for months (the two hottest spots at WTC-2 and WTC-7 were approximately 1,350o F five days after being continuously flooded with water, a temperature high enough to melt aluminum (p. 70). ("Why Did the Trade Center Skyscrapers Collapse?" by Morgan Reynolds: http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911 )

 

The apparent demolition of the three skyscrapers, and a perhaps inadvertent statement by heavily-insured WTC landlord Larry Silverstein that WTC-7 was "pulled" (slang for "demolished") can be viewed on many 9/11 truth DVDs and web-videos, including Loose Change, 9/11 Eyewitness, 9/11 and the American Empire, (Dr. David Griffin), and 9/11 Revisited (Dr. Steven Jones). Dr. Reynolds' articles on 9/11 and other matters can be found at http://nomoregames.net .

The videos, and further information about Dr. Reynolds' May 6th speech, are available from the event's sponsor, the Madison-based Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth: http://mujca.com

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, this film will go over huge at a liberal college like UW-Madison.

 

Oh, and that has to be one of the most biased "articles" I've read in a long time. Whoever wrote that should probably work for Rolling Stone, they'd fit right in.

[Gary Floyd 0]

I take it that these conspiracy theorists never read this. This article pretty much debunks most of the 9/11 conspiracy theories, and makes for a great, informative read.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Someone didn't read the thread.

[2GOLD 0]

You know what puzzles me? The people who claim the building falling was really weird cause it was just fire. No, it was fire and basically a giant MISSILE into the side of it. Guess what that's going to do to a building that had suffered an explosive going off near it's base just 8 years before. It's going to rock the structure, cause heavy pressure to the steel and make it very unstable.

 

I don't need an explaination why it fell because I have common sense and common sense tells me buildings are not designed to take a giant jet liner in the side especially one that explodes. The only building every designed to take a missile attack is the Pentagon and even it was split almost to the third ring. THAT should tell you something. I know it's ok to question things but abandoning reality doesn't help.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

The Jews did WTC

 

End of discussion.

[Justice 0]

Well, the huge problem in the idea that "It never reached the melting point!" is that it never needed to. Steel warps and bends long before it's melting point. Once it starts to warp, the structural integrity is shot and done for.

 

Most of the above (The only time this and that has ever happen...) is that this is the first time true jetliners filled with fuel have rammed into super-skyscrapers. I mean, the situation is going to be almost completely unique with the amount of fuel in the jets and the buildings themselves.

[snuffbox 0]

I have to honestly question, would all of this conspiracy shit really be pushed so much by certain people if it wasn't a REPUBLICAN administration in charge when 9/11 happened, or are the people who try and push these psychotic ramblings as legit just the type of crazy wackjobs who would believe in this total bullshit regardless?

 

-Bill Clinton murdered 40+ people

-Liberal Media

-War on Christmas

-Waco

-Bill Clinton admin was behind the OKC bombing

-All liberals are terrorists

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

-Bill Clinton murdered 40+ people

Check.

-Liberal Media

Yep.

-War on Christmas

It was brutal. But the War on Easter was even worse!

-Waco

David Koresh=martyr

-Bill Clinton admin was behind the OKC bombing

All the evidence points that way.

-All liberals are terrorists

Goes without saying.

 

6/6. 100%!

[snuffbox 0]

I forgot to mention Chappaquiddick...which actually happened, but according to some opinions here, we should never look into any contrary evidence ever.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The problem with 99% of the "the government was behind 9/11" theories, is that they aren't presented by any kind of credible experts. It's usually either:

 

- a college student with too much time on their hands

- some liberal professor

- an anti-government crack-pot living in a trailer somewhere

 

Basically, people that hate the governement anyway, and if not for 9/11 would just find something else to obsess over.

[snuffbox 0]

Didnt you mean terrorist professor?

[Art Sandusky 0]

The most I feel our government had to do with it would be prior knowledge without prevention, and, depending on my mood, they may have set charges within the towers to control the collapse of the buildings. They certainly weren't the culprits, but I think it's going to come out more and more with time that they could have done a hell of a lot more to prevent it as documents are declassified and whatnot.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, we know that the government didn't have a good handle on anti-terrorism at all before 9/11...and probably still don't, really, given Congressional reports that have come out since then. But to say the government orchestrated 9/11 when it was clearly Al-Quaeda is lunacy.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Well yeah, I just think it was a case of (warning: super leftist conspiracy theory approaching) them going "oh shit, we've gotta stop this!... But then again, this might be useful..." While this may not have been the case, you'd be crazy to think that Karl Rove never had that thought for at least a second.

[2GOLD 0]

Well yeah, I just think it was a case of (warning: super leftist conspiracy theory approaching) them going "oh shit, we've gotta stop this!... But then again, this might be useful..." While this may not have been the case, you'd be crazy to think that Karl Rove never had that thought for at least a second.

 

Here is the flip side. Let's say they knew someone was going to hijack a plane and fly into the Towers. They even knew the date but they had no clue where the hijackers would be and no idea who they were. What do you do?

 

When they discover the plane has been hijacked they have one option: Shoot it down.

To say the government WOULDN'T have been raked over the coals for shooting down a civilian airliner is crazy. They would have been. They would have been ripped apart by people saying, "YOU DON'T KNOW! They might have just wanted money!!!"

 

With the little we knew, there was nothing we could have done. Nothing. Airport secruity was lazy and they frankly are still lazy from the times I have been involved with them.

 

Once the plane was taken, it was end game. We couldn't shoot them down, we couldn't have made them crash and they wouldn't have landed since they didn't give a damn about money from us so much as making a statement. I truly do think the government knew a plane would be hijacked on that day, but there was no other info and by the time the planes were taken it was over.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

If the government knew ahead of time that a plane was going to be hijacked, do you really think Bush would've been sitting in a grade school reading a book while it happened?

 

Of course, maybe Cheney knew and Bush didn't!...

 

You can always come up with a different angle on this.

[SuperJerk 0]

I really wish this thread would die already.

[snuffbox 0]

This wont die until Bill Clinton is locked up for all those murders.

[Art Sandusky 0]

If the government knew ahead of time that a plane was going to be hijacked, do you really think Bush would've been sitting in a grade school reading a book while it happened?

New Orleans went from American metropolis to absolute chaos while he was attending his usual scheduled stuff. Yes, I do believe he would have been there reading that book whether he knew or not.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

If the government knew ahead of time that a plane was going to be hijacked, do you really think Bush would've been sitting in a grade school reading a book while it happened?

New Orleans went from American metropolis to absolute chaos while he was attending his usual scheduled stuff. Yes, I do believe he would have been there reading that book whether he knew or not.

 

 

There is no fucking excuse for that either. None.

[NoCalMike 0]

The book, Crossing the Rubicon, lays out a pretty detailed and insightful explanation that The government did know about 9/11 beforehand, also how whistleblowers who tried to bring forth evidence, were smeared and a lot of FBI investigations which were on the track of Osama and Al Qaeda purposely had the plug pulled on them.

 

The author goes along with the explanation of "Terrorists flew planes into WTC/Pentagon on 9/11" however he is pretty adamant that the government knew ahead of time and didn't want the attacks to be stopped.....

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

The govt. probably knew "something" was up, but they didn't know what that "something" was.

 

Why do we always seem to have this discussion every 6 months. It is so fucking stupid, that it leads me to ask the people of TSM this question:

 

 

What is your prefered breakfeast?

 

When I am at home, I usually have two Tip Top brand English Muffins with butter, but occasionaly butter and Vegimite, with a glass of orange juice. When I stay at a hotel or am on holidays, nothing touches a Toasted Bacon sandwhich. Two slices of toasted bread and a shitload of bacon makes for a excellent, if not fattening start to the day. The Westin at the GPO in Sydney as well as the Sherriden on the Park in Sydney do that so fucking good it is not funny.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

errr...oatmeal with honey or brown sugar and skim milk

[snuffbox 0]

What I want to know is, why does everybody on tv say 'terr-uh' but most dont use the accent for any other word?