The OAO RAW thread for April 10, 2006

[chaosrage 0]

No fucking way is Edge the best choice. Cena is the best choice because of how insane the heat of the crowd will be. It'll be sad if we can't get that match due to Vince wanting Cena to stay as a babyface.

 

According to the torch, they do plan on eventually turning Cena anyway.

[cabbageboy 0]

Chaosrage, here's the problem with the Cena thing. Vince loves the guy too much to let him flat out get his ass owned at that ECW PPV. And HHH has too much of an ego to allow himself to be beaten and then thoroughly humiliated. Edge would get his ass kicked and we'd all revel in it.

[Jingus 0]

Plus, Edge is a much better wrestler than Cena and would have by far a better match with Van Dam than Cena would.

 

There's no way that they'd let Cena, as he's being booked right now, be a heel and lose the title on the ECW show.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The heat for Cena would overwhelm the match itself. Take Cena out of the match and put him elsewhere on the card.

 

Shit, say Sandman vs. Cena and that sells a billion buys.

[chaosrage 0]

RVD against Cena would work so much better because Cena is the farthest away you can get from ECW of the three. HHH and Edge both had hardcore matches. They could have fit well in ECW. Not Cena, he's total WWE. As far as we know, he doesn't have an extreme bone in his body.

 

They could really sell this as ECW vs WWE. The fans will eat Cena alive for it. I think that's too good of a crowd reaction to pass up. Likewise, RVD beating Cena and the explosive pop that would follow is too good of a moment to pass up. This has to happen.

 

Not only that, but RVD vs Edge feels too much like a mid card match. Edge is barely a main eventer himself. RVD beating Edge is just blah. So what...? Who doesn't beat Edge? A win over Cena will legitimize RVD.

 

Besides, after winning two Wrestlemania world title matches back to back, and holding the title for a whole year, Cena can afford to lose a match or two. What's the point of making him look like a god for a year if no one can benefit from it except for HHH when he finally wins the feud? That's the kind of booking that makes no stars and keeps the same guys at the top for years. If RVD beats Edge, Edge will just be seen as a transitional champion again and RVD will be seen as someone who beat a transitional champ. The only two people who would appear to be real main eventers after that would still be HHH and Cena.

[Jingus 0]

The problem is that it's just not going to happen. The WWE wants Cena as a face, period, and is willing to ignore entire arenas booing him. They sure as hell aren't going to sacrifice that just to get RVD and ECW over for one night.

 

And Cena's had hardcore matches, several of them. Not as many or as good as Edge or HHH, yeah, but he's been there done that.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The problem with Cena vs. RVD is that the sell for that is Cena vs. the ECW crowd, not Cena vs. RVD. You can have Cena vs. the ECW crowd at any spot on the card and accomplish the same goals. RVD vs. Edge at least has a heel/face structure where you can get heat out of the match itself rather than the novelty of the ECW fans booing Cena.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Let it be noted and stamped that Coach shooting on Lawler's stat rape incident during the tag title match was FUCKING ACE.

[Guest treecelightning]

Not Cena, he's total WWE. As far as we know, he doesn't have an extreme bone in his body.

 

Judgement Day: Cena vs. JBL

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Plus, Cena got STABBED.

[chaosrage 0]

The problem is that it's just not going to happen. The WWE wants Cena as a face, period, and is willing to ignore entire arenas booing him. They sure as hell aren't going to sacrifice that just to get RVD and ECW over for one night.

 

Who knows what they're doing but they haven't exactly been ignoring it. Cena has been addressing them. Edge has been making fun of Cena for the crowds turning against him. He already gets booed in every city, this time it would just be a little more than usual. They can still make up some bullshit excuse like calling the ECW crowd traditional fans if they want. I fail to see how the ECW crowd will be able to change anything that the WM crowd couldn't. What would they be sacrificing?

 

And Cena's had hardcore matches, several of them. Not as many or as good as Edge or HHH, yeah, but he's been there done that.

 

I haven't seen/don't remember them, but I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything on the level of Edge vs Foley or HHH vs Foley. Even if I'm wrong and he did though, it wouldn't be as fresh on people's minds as Edge vs Foley.

 

The problem with Cena vs. RVD is that the sell for that is Cena vs. the ECW crowd, not Cena vs. RVD.

 

RVD's popularity in an ECW setting would balance out all the Cena hate, I think. The crowd wouldn't only be anti-Cena as they would be if he was in almost any other match. They would also be ready to riot if they don't see RVD walk out with the title.

 

Again, this shouldn't be passed up. It's basically the wrestler that most represents ECW against the wrestler that most represents WWE. Edge doesn't fit into this (especially because a lot of ECW fans might respect him now after his match at WM) and he would just turn the main event of ONS2 into a midcard match. RVD pinning either HHH or Cena would be the best way to make the match mean something, the best way to make RVD into a star, and the best way to showcase ECW. Why would they give a shit about that? Well, the last ECW PPV proved that ECW could still be profitable. A lot of profit could be made from ECW in the future if they don't intend to kill it dead at this PPV. Plus, it gives them another bonafide main eventer on Raw, other than HHH and Cena.

[Jingus 0]

But Cena is a BABYFACE. And according to everything I've read, they're determined to keep him that way.

 

Look at all the WWE "invaders" at the first ONS. See any patterns? All heels. No babyfaces. Except for Austin, who did everything but suck Heyman's cock in the middle of the ring to put ECW over.

 

Also, let's face it, Cena is just not a good wrestler. His only decent matches have been WWE style brawls with opponents who specialize in working that style. Put him in there with RVD, and that's the very definition of a styles clash. HHH or especially Edge would have a much better match with him.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You clearly underestimate ECW fans' desire to put themselves over.

 

The main event of the last ECW ONS was Dudleys vs. Tommy Dreamer/Sandman. That wasn't a WWE mid-card match at all. Oh no.

[benoit4hor 0]

You sure that was Cabana, looked a little off?

 

In fact after looking at the picture on WWE.com it wasn't Cabana.

[chaosrage 0]

But Cena is a BABYFACE. And according to everything I've read, they're determined to keep him that way.

 

If anything, he's a tweener. At WM, he was getting a full fledged heel reaction. The effect ONS2 would have on him would be little different from that.

 

Also, let's face it, Cena is just not a good wrestler. His only decent matches have been WWE style brawls with opponents who specialize in working that style. Put him in there with RVD, and that's the very definition of a styles clash. HHH or especially Edge would have a much better match with him.

 

This is true. It wouldn't be a good match. However, it could be like Rock/Hogan where the energy of the crowd and the moment make up for what's happening in the ring.

 

RVD vs HHH would be fine, except.... I have a hard time believing that HHH would job to RVD at an ECW PPV after he just jobbed to Cena at WM. And that also means we get to see HHH burying RVD in promos before the PPV.

 

Rey Mysterio would probably give RVD the best possible match. Like Edge though, it would do little for his credibility. Whenever he would lose the title to Cena or HHH, he would be in the exact same spot.

 

You clearly underestimate ECW fans' desire to put themselves over.

 

The main event of the last ECW ONS was Dudleys vs. Tommy Dreamer/Sandman. That wasn't a WWE mid-card match at all. Oh no.

 

Right, it was a mid card match because all of ECW's top stars were mid carders in WWE. But.. it doesn't HAVE to be that way this time. It shouldn't be that way since the main event is going to be a WWE world title match.

[Jingus 0]

If anything, he's a tweener. At WM, he was getting a full fledged heel reaction. The effect ONS2 would have on him would be little different from that.

 

But he's still booked as the top babyface in the company, with no sign of that changing.

 

This is true. It wouldn't be a good match. However, it could be like Rock/Hogan where the energy of the crowd and the moment make up for what's happening in the ring.

 

The crowd would be equally rabid for Edge or HHH.

 

RVD vs HHH would be fine, except.... I have a hard time believing that HHH would job to RVD at an ECW PPV after he just jobbed to Cena at WM. And that also means we get to see HHH burying RVD in promos before the PPV.

 

So you think HHH wouldn't job, but the guy HHH jobbed to would? And as for getting buried in promos, well, that's what happens in any feud.

 

Rey Mysterio would probably give RVD the best possible match. Like Edge though, it would do little for his credibility. Whenever he would lose the title to Cena or HHH, he would be in the exact same spot.

 

Misterio's another babyface, plus an ECW alumnus. As for "credibility", no matter who RVD beats for the title, he's gotta lose it sooner or later, probably sooner.

 

Right, it was a mid card match because all of ECW's top stars were mid carders in WWE. But.. it doesn't HAVE to be that way this time. It shouldn't be that way since the main event is going to be a WWE world title match.

 

But Cena wasn't a star in ECW at all. And HHH is a bigger star than he is in the WWE. Hell, even Edge might be, it's debatable.

[Angle-plex 0]

Possible new crazy shit from Kane's past coming and the Vince vs God feud are the real stories of the night. The title feud is just weird, and they just repeated last week's opening segment tonight. Next week Triple H vs Cena/Edge wow omg! But most importantly NEVER PUT SHELTON ON ANNOUNCING EVER AGAIN! When the color man has to clarify what you just (tried) said to the audience, it's time to give it up.

 

Completely apathetic towards everything else.

[chaosrage 0]

But he's still booked as the top babyface in the company, with no sign of that changing.

 

And he can still be booked as the top babyface in the company after ONS2. Nothing needs to change. Have the announcers tell the audience at home that they don't like Cena because he wasn't from ECW. This is all that needs to be said. It even has the added bonus of making sense, Unlike the "traditional wrestling fans" explanation.

 

The crowd would be equally rabid for Edge or HHH.

 

They would probably be far far more rabid for Cena because he's the least hardcore of the three. And because he has the shittiest character of the three. And because he was the champion for a year. AND because he was getting "Fuck you" chants last year when he wasn't even there.

 

So you think HHH wouldn't job, but the guy HHH jobbed to would?

 

Yes, that's the way wrestling works. No one wins all the time. Benoit made HHH tap out at WM, lost the title to Orton clean at Summerslam. Cena made HHH tap out at WM, he should lose the title to RVD at ONS2. That's more reasonable than expecting HHH to lose a world title PPV match clean twice to two different people.

 

And as for getting buried in promos, well, that's what happens in any feud.

 

Any feud with HHH because anyone he's facing isn't allowed to make any comebacks that would make HHH look bad. Or at least that's the way it appears.

 

Misterio's another babyface, plus an ECW alumnus. As for "credibility", no matter who RVD beats for the title, he's gotta lose it sooner or later, probably sooner.

 

You're missing the point. A clean win over HHH or Cena for the world title instantly makes RVD a main eventer. A clean win over Edge for the world title just makes him a mid carder with a world title.

 

But Cena wasn't a star in ECW at all.

 

Exactly, he's the opposite of ECW. This is the main reason I think RVD should face Cena. See my above posts where I talk about ECW vs WWE.

 

And HHH is a bigger star than he is in the WWE.

 

He is, but Cena made him tap at WM. So as of right now, he's looking better than HHH.

 

Hell, even Edge might be, it's debatable.

 

Hah. No, that's not.

[alfdogg 0]

I don't think it's fair to God to make him wrestle in that tag match...I mean, Cena and Edge don't have to wrestle two matches.

[Jingus 0]

circular logic and repetitive arguments

 

Look, it's not gonna happen, plain and simple. They want Cena to stay the top babyface. This is not going to change; the mere fact that he made HHH tap out shows just how committed the WWE is to keeping him on top and getting him over.

 

If RVD does indeed challenge for the world title at ONS2, the bookers are gonna put him up against a heel. That only leaves HHH and Edge as viable choices. The ECW mutants hate both of 'em with a vengeance, plus it's RVD finally getting his due, so the audience will be absolutely rabid no matter which guy is his opponent. At least they respect the wrestling abilities of those two; Cena on the other hand would probably be met with chants like "Please get cancer!" and "Die John die!", the kind of heat that says "I don't want to watch you" instead of "I want to watch you get beat up".

[chaosrage 0]

circular logic and repetitive arguments

 

Look, it's not gonna happen, plain and simple. They want Cena to stay the top babyface. This is not going to change; the mere fact that he made HHH tap out shows just how committed the WWE is to keeping him on top and getting him over.

 

? What are you not understanding about this?

 

"And he can still be booked as the top babyface in the company after ONS2. Nothing needs to change. Have the announcers tell the audience at home that they don't like Cena because he wasn't from ECW. This is all that needs to be said. It even has the added bonus of making sense, Unlike the "traditional wrestling fans" explanation."

 

If RVD does indeed challenge for the world title at ONS2, the bookers are gonna put him up against a heel. That only leaves HHH and Edge as viable choices. The ECW mutants hate both of 'em with a vengeance, plus it's RVD finally getting his due, so the audience will be absolutely rabid no matter which guy is his opponent. At least they respect the wrestling abilities of those two; Cena on the other hand would probably be met with chants like "Please get cancer!" and "Die John die!", the kind of heat that says "I don't want to watch you" instead of "I want to watch you get beat up".

 

I think it says "I hate you, I want to see RVD kill you."

[Jingus 0]

Because. They. Will. Not. Book. A. Babyface. Against. RVD.

 

And regardless of how the crowd is reacting, they still see Cena as their top babyface.

 

They won't do it. They just plain won't.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Anyone else find it funny that they're building up the ECW PPV to be main evented by a WWE star who's never worked for ECW (be it HHH, Edge or Cena) vs. RVD for the WWE Championship? And it's being booked by Vince. WWE Vince.

 

How is it an ECW PPV exactly, apart from the fact the ECW fans will dupe themselves into buying the show and/or buying tickets and chanting ECW? At least the first one was all ECW guys in matches.

 

 

On a related note, if the AWA DVD sells well, do we get an AWA One Night Stand series?

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Anyone else find it funny that they're building up the ECW PPV to be main evented by a WWE star who's never worked for ECW (be it HHH, Edge or Cena) vs. RVD for the WWE Championship? And it's being booked by Vince. WWE Vince.

 

How is it an ECW PPV exactly, apart from the fact the ECW fans will dupe themselves into buying the show and/or buying tickets and chanting ECW? At least the first one was all ECW guys in matches.

 

 

On a related note, if the AWA DVD sells well, do we get an AWA One Night Stand series?

 

Don't even bring that up. They'll give Greg Gagne a shot at the title.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

Who knows what they're doing but they haven't exactly been ignoring it. Cena has been addressing them. Edge has been making fun of Cena for the crowds turning against him.

 

But they haven't been addressing it in terms of booking. Like I've said on other threads, the best way to deal with this is to turn Cena heel.

 

In regards to this whole Kane dark secret angle they started last night, I'm intrigued. IMO, Kane's character works best when he's mysterious/dark/psychotic. Chokeslaming his partner out of the blue doesn't feel wierd with Kane, because erratic behavior is apart of him. Having said that, I'm hoping the secret won't be as outlandish as the Katie Vick murder storyline. Maybe that's asking for too much.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm pretty sure Vince has very little to do with the ECW PPV aside from what he did last year, which was namely sign off on stuff and let Heyman do his thing.

 

The lure of ECW and its ethos is what draws the money here. In WWE terms RVD vs. Edge is a midcard match, maybe a TV main event. HHH vs. RVD is a main event for a show like Unforgiven 2002, where RVD had little shot of winning. But ECW RVD vs. HHH? Oh my God. It almost feeds into the idea that fans realize these ECW guys have been watered down. Duds vs. Dreamer/Sandman in a WWE ring? Whatever. But that match in ECW? Vicious, sick brawl.

 

I'll post a thread on what they should do in a minute, it'll pertain to RVD's current direction with Shelton, then ONS.

[slimm44 0]

Decent show last night, if they keep the formula they've been using next week we may see Triple H vs. Edge and Cena

[haws bah gawd 0]

I really enjoyed RAW last night. This may have already been brought up in this thread, but I'm not up to going through the previous 9 pages. I had been talking to a buddy of mine about the Spirit Squad's tag title run, and we both agreed that WWE needed to give them a stipulation like WCW gave the New Jersey Triad and the nWo Wolfpac, where any 2 members can defend the titles. Then low and behold, WWE does just that. I think it adds an interesting dynamic to their matches. The only thing I would do different is give the spirit squad another set of stipulations that allows them to switch-out between the 5 members during a title defense. It would give a good rub to the team that eventually beats them because they will have defeated 5 other men for the belts. I'm not sure where WWE is going with the psycho Kane storyline, but if it leads to him putting the mask back on, I am all for it.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Why would he want to put his mask back on? Didn't he take it off in the first place because he was tired of wearing a mask? (The real guy, not the character)

[haws bah gawd 0]

I didn't know Kane (the person) was tired of wearing the mask. I just thought it was just a different direction WWE wanted to take his character.