WON News and Notes 5/29

[Dandy 0]

I lose respect for Batista more and more as each new tidbit comes out. There is something in the back of my mind that tells me that they may be working us to make him into a heel when he comes back. However, Booker is a heel, and there are several top heels for him to face. So, looks to be 100% true.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What stands out for me is how badly the domestic PPV audience has fallen. With Backlash only getting in the 130,000 range for domestic buys, it seems like we're getting closer to the sub-100,000 level, and that's not something you can really put a positive spin on.

[Dandy 0]

Well, we have seen the quality of programming fall over the years, along with the ratings. I would like to see Vince do an experiment for 3 months time where the opening to Raw was changed, there was a new set, better match content was pushed to forefront, and most of the feuds were booked by competition and all the stupid and offensive angles were not ran. I think with some creative marketing, they might be able to gain an audience back and increase their ratings and PPV ad revenue. And hey, if it fails.....not much harm came from it.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

Well, we have seen the quality of programming fall over the years, along with the ratings. I would like to see Vince do an experiment for 3 months time where the opening to Raw was changed, there was a new set, better match content was pushed to forefront, and most of the feuds were booked by competition and all the stupid and offensive angles were not ran. I think with some creative marketing, they might be able to gain an audience back and increase their ratings and PPV ad revenue. And hey, if it fails.....not much harm came from it.

 

That would mean that Vince McMahon would have to admit that something he did wasn't successful. That just doesn't happen anymore since the XFL. Why do you think the roster split is still on? McMahon won't admit he made a mistake.

[Dandy 0]

Oh, I never said he would do this........I said "I would like to see."

[mfn 0]

They just need something hot and fresh. It seems like I've been watching Triple H do the same shit for 5 years....... I'm sur he has too.

[humongous2002 0]

Well the sad thing is that HHH won't be blamed for the low buyrates or bad ratings, it'll be the fans fault, Cena's fault, the weather's fault, 9/11's fault, or Jericho's fault.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Imagine if you would circus music playing while considering some of these statements:

 

Hass...shut up. No one is doing anything wrong by posting the notes from the newsletter.

 

...

 

You could also flip the coin and say Dave Meltzer is stealing from the pockets of these wrestling organizations (and the wrestlers themselves)when he sells spoilers and future story lines in his newsletter.

 

I can't believe anyone could possibly convince themselves that THIS is the reason why bootlegging the Observer Newsletter is ok..

 

I don't think we're stealing anything. We're not making a profit off his work, if anything it's being shared with everyone here.

 

...

 

Let me ask you a question. If me and you were hanging out and you got your copy of the newsletter and I asked you if I could read it, and you handed it to me so I could read it. Would you consider that stealing?

 

It wouldn't be stealing any more than the person in my passenger seat listening to my new Olivia Newton John CD with me, or lending a friend a video game. Making the deliberate decision to rip said Olivia Newton John CD and email it to a thousand of my friends would be stealing. This thread has 3000 views. SURELY you can see the difference between the two situations.

 

Besides not everyone is willing/can afford to buy Meltzer's newsletter. In my opinion it is the person who posts the newsbits's decision to do so. HTQ decided to post it, so let's not lambast him. Meltzer still profits from the hundreds of people who do subscribe.

 

Everything in bold is wrong...

 

The news sites around the internet posts tidbits of his work, and he seems to not have cared, so why should you?

 

In what world is a 16,527 word block of text classified a "tidbit"?

 

I notice that the news site that Haas of Pain promotes in his sig, and I think he writes for it as well, has transcripts and excerpts of copyrighted material as part of its content. Can I assume that permission was obtained from Ring of Honor, Pro Wrestling Torch, etc, before this material was used?

 

I am the sole writer of said news site, and at no point have I ever copied and pasted a block of thousands of words of text from anyone's newsletter. Maybe two times ever have I ever printed two or three paragraphs from a newsletter word for word, which you see all the time in books and newspapers. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between using an excerpt and an actually taking the time to physically convert a hard copy of a newsletter to digital format so that people can read it without paying for it. I am sure you simply a nice guy trying to spread the wealth, I don't think you mean any harm.

 

This is all.

[Guest Princess Leena]

I would also prefer just some paragraphs... because there's a whole lot of poorly written filler in the WON.

[Art Sandusky 0]

What really needs to happen, and this is assuming it would do affect the product, is for some incredibly wealthy smark to buy up the majority of WWE stock. Wouldn't this require at least some relinquishment of creative control if the majority holder felt like exerting their status?

[dh86 0]

What really needs to happen, and this is assuming it would do affect the product, is for some incredibly wealthy smark to buy up the majority of WWE stock. Wouldn't this require at least some relinquishment of creative control if the majority holder felt like exerting their status?

a mcmahon would have to sell for that to happen

[Art Sandusky 0]

Well fuck, nevermind then.

 

S'far as current things go, as crazy as it sounds, none of the higher-ups knowing what's coming next is kind of good. After seeing what they've come up with in the last few years when actually planning things out, I'm all for some seat-of-your-pants stuff. Add into this the WCW-esque corporate ineptitude that pervades the company more and more by the day, and ECW's product may escape the watchful eye of the WWE overlords and we'll see some half-decent shows.

[benn 0]

Besides not everyone is willing/can afford to buy Meltzer's newsletter. In my opinion it is the person who posts the newsbits's decision to do so. HTQ decided to post it, so let's not lambast him. Meltzer still profits from the hundreds of people who do subscribe.

 

Everything in bold is wrong...

 

How does Meltzer NOT profit from the people who do subscribe to his newsletter? That doesn't even make sense.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Well, it is wrong times two actually. In a literal sense because thousands subscribe not hundreds. And in a moral sense because he is justifying bootlegging it by saying that because other people pay for it, he shouldn't have to. That, frankly, is a stupid argument.

 

But it's a lost cause. I give up. I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and I have said my piece.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I notice that the news site that Haas of Pain promotes in his sig, and I think he writes for it as well, has transcripts and excerpts of copyrighted material as part of its content. Can I assume that permission was obtained from Ring of Honor, Pro Wrestling Torch, etc, before this material was used?

 

I am the sole writer of said news site, and at no point have I ever copied and pasted a block of thousands of words of text from anyone's newsletter. Maybe two times ever have I ever printed two or three paragraphs from a newsletter word for word, which you see all the time in books and newspapers. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between using an excerpt and an actually taking the time to physically convert a hard copy of a newsletter to digital format so that people can read it without paying for it. I am sure you simply a nice guy trying to spread the wealth, I don't think you mean any harm.

 

This is all.

So, did you get permission then?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I would also prefer just some paragraphs.

I prefer that too. As I said, it's just that this week it was written in such a manner that I was going to write just as much if I paraphrased, and I decided to copy it all. If I post the WWE news next week, I'll go back to paraphrasing.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I notice that the news site that Haas of Pain promotes in his sig, and I think he writes for it as well, has transcripts and excerpts of copyrighted material as part of its content. Can I assume that permission was obtained from Ring of Honor, Pro Wrestling Torch, etc, before this material was used?

 

I am the sole writer of said news site, and at no point have I ever copied and pasted a block of thousands of words of text from anyone's newsletter. Maybe two times ever have I ever printed two or three paragraphs from a newsletter word for word, which you see all the time in books and newspapers. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between using an excerpt and an actually taking the time to physically convert a hard copy of a newsletter to digital format so that people can read it without paying for it. I am sure you simply a nice guy trying to spread the wealth, I don't think you mean any harm.

 

This is all.

So, did you get permission then?

 

I hate to break it to you, but using the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, The Pro-Wrestling Torch Newsletter and books written on wrestling to explore the history of the sport is a little something that they call "research". It's how virtually every piece of non-fiction ever written was compiled. You don't need permission to transcribe a 200 word quote, you just need to give proper credit. As I have found in discussing local politics online with fellow residents of my area, the local newspaper will not attempt to sue you for copying and pasting two paragraphs worth of one of their stories and then linking to the full story or crediting the paper and the author. If you copy and paste the text of an entire story, you'll be hearing from their lawyers.

 

I don't know what point you are possibly trying to make. There is absolutely no comparison between transcribing over 15,000 words of a current newsletter with the express consent of giving people a reason to be cheap and NOT subscribe to it and saying "here are some things Bill Watts said in an issue of the Pro-Wrestling Torch from fifteen years ago that isn't even available to purchase or in their digital archives".

 

Try to discredit me all you want, it still won't change the fact that posting 15,627 words of this weeks Wrestling Observer Newsletter is wrong.

[MrRant 0]

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Well, it is wrong times two actually. In a literal sense because thousands subscribe not hundreds. And in a moral sense because he is justifying bootlegging it by saying that because other people pay for it, he shouldn't have to. That, frankly, is a stupid argument.

 

In the literal sense, I said hundreds instead of thousands because I wasn't sure of the exact number, and in a debate, as you'd like to make this out to be, you're better off not giving hyperboles like "millions" or anything, so hundreds is a safe enough way to describe his subscription base. The mere fact it's more than that lends credibility to the argument that Meltzer profits regardless. In a moral sense, I never claimed that just because one paid, the other didn't have to. I said that it was up to the person paying for the subscription to share the information. Meltzer still gets HTQ's money, so he still wins. I don't think he is sweating the loss of profits of every free eyeball reading on this particular forum, especially when HTQ isn't selling the information himself. That would be the literal definition of stealing. I understand your gripe, but you're fighting a lost cause, because no one here simply cares.

 

And if you're trying to say that people can afford to pay subscription fees for a newsletter, you're wrong. Technically yes they probably could, but when you take priorities in consideration, a newsletter probably ranks near the bottom for any given person that isn't subscribing.

[Bruce Blank 0]

Oh lord are you still yapping on?

 

Personally I wouldn't buy the newsletter, I just don't care THAT much - I read it when it's on here sure but honestly I wouldn't go out of the way for it since most of these bits and pieces can be found on wrestling websites all over the net within a few days of it coming out.

 

So you got sand in your vag because it's a big post this time - I guess if the infraction is smaller it's okay? You know like on your website. if you steal an Orange it's okay but not if you steal a whole bag?

[Downhome 0]

I would also prefer just some paragraphs.

I prefer that too. As I said, it's just that this week it was written in such a manner that I was going to write just as much if I paraphrased, and I decided to copy it all. If I post the WWE news next week, I'll go back to paraphrasing.

 

 

HTQ, I know you well enough to know that you know that it's not worth getting pulled into this type of bullshit discussion. Just continue to do what you're doing, I'll continue posting the bits I get from PWInsider, Joe Blow will continue posting whatever shit they find, and let's call it a day.

[Maztinho 0]

Well, we have seen the quality of programming fall over the years, along with the ratings. I would like to see Vince do an experiment for 3 months time where the opening to Raw was changed, there was a new set, better match content was pushed to forefront, and most of the feuds were booked by competition and all the stupid and offensive angles were not ran. I think with some creative marketing, they might be able to gain an audience back and increase their ratings and PPV ad revenue. And hey, if it fails.....not much harm came from it.

 

Yeah, how long has it been since a RAW change? Since the alteration from RAW is WAR? That's the last I remember. They should take a page from TNA a few weeks ago and start off a RAW with a fight (or the very beginning of a match) they generally do the 5 minute warning thing hyping that RAW is coming up next anyways, why not have someone start a fight?

 

Jim Ross: OMIGOD!!! KANE JUST ASSAULTED CARLITO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!!

 

Yeah, that was coming off the top of my head and sounded corny, but you get the point. Start something in that small amount of time, maybe you'll get some holdover viewership.

 

ANYTHING but a promo to start the show.

 

Hell have a Divas Wet T-shirt contest, something, but twenty minutes of setting up whats going to go down at the end of the show. Basically 40 minutes of RAW is wasted on one angle. You could split it down and get another angle working there. Is it really that hard?

[Scroby 0]

But it's a lost cause. I give up. I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and I have said my piece.

Ah I get it now, you're Republican.

 

To regards to your answer towards my question I gave you earlier. What HTQ did for us is the same as if I was standing right next to him and asked him if I could read the newsletter. All he did was post what it said to us and shared it with us. No one here, copied it, made dozens of copies, and started selling them for their own profit. HTQ just posted some of the WON on here so we could discuss it. Thats all he did. Get over it. Its nothing differant than what you posted with the quotes from the Cornette interview on your site.

 

Get the hell off your high horse and stop preaching to us about what we should and shouldn't post on this website. If you have an issue with these posts, don't go into them and go rat us out to Meltzer. HTQ did nothing wrong, and we did nothing wrong by reading what he posted. No one made "Illegal" copies of the WON and started selling it to make a profit.

 

And honestly, thanks HTQ and the others who post the newsletter on here. I for one really apprecite the fact you guys actually buy and read the WON and then take the time to post tidbits or more about stuff regarding the WWE or TNA on the forums. I'm sorry if Hass and his fit has made you guys think that we don't all apprecite the time and effort you guys take to post this stuff but we really all do. Hopefully Hass's little fit here doesn't detour you guys from posting this stuff in the future.

[Boxer 0]

So this was how the thread got to 4 pages?

 

Just wanted to say a thanks to HTQ

[Angle-plex 0]

People are stealing a pro wrestling newsletter. Seriously...who gives a fuck?

 

Thanks for the posting HTQ.

[mfn 0]

I notice that the news site that Haas of Pain promotes in his sig, and I think he writes for it as well, has transcripts and excerpts of copyrighted material as part of its content. Can I assume that permission was obtained from Ring of Honor, Pro Wrestling Torch, etc, before this material was used?

 

I am the sole writer of said news site, and at no point have I ever copied and pasted a block of thousands of words of text from anyone's newsletter. Maybe two times ever have I ever printed two or three paragraphs from a newsletter word for word, which you see all the time in books and newspapers. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between using an excerpt and an actually taking the time to physically convert a hard copy of a newsletter to digital format so that people can read it without paying for it. I am sure you simply a nice guy trying to spread the wealth, I don't think you mean any harm.

 

This is all.

So, did you get permission then?

 

I hate to break it to you, but using the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, The Pro-Wrestling Torch Newsletter and books written on wrestling to explore the history of the sport is a little something that they call "research". It's how virtually every piece of non-fiction ever written was compiled. You don't need permission to transcribe a 200 word quote, you just need to give proper credit. As I have found in discussing local politics online with fellow residents of my area, the local newspaper will not attempt to sue you for copying and pasting two paragraphs worth of one of their stories and then linking to the full story or crediting the paper and the author. If you copy and paste the text of an entire story, you'll be hearing from their lawyers.

 

I don't know what point you are possibly trying to make. There is absolutely no comparison between transcribing over 15,000 words of a current newsletter with the express consent of giving people a reason to be cheap and NOT subscribe to it and saying "here are some things Bill Watts said in an issue of the Pro-Wrestling Torch from fifteen years ago that isn't even available to purchase or in their digital archives".

 

Try to discredit me all you want, it still won't change the fact that posting 15,627 words of this weeks Wrestling Observer Newsletter is wrong.

 

 

Didn't you say you were done like.... 2 pages ago?

 

Get over your self rightous self.

 

Anyways.

 

Does the E remind anyone else of the dying days of WCW?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Hass of Pain takes this stuff too seriously. It's not life or death you know, it's a fucking Wrestling Newsletter. I'm sure Meltzer could fucking care less, he has more important things to worry about.

[Darthtiki 0]

Ahem...

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, we are arguing about a publication that deals with a FAKE FUCKING SPORT mainly and whose info stimulates content on this and other boards on the web. Who fucking cares what one poster does with that information.

 

That is all. Thank you and good night.

 

Oh...and one more thought it seems that this cockamamie arguement has been created so that one poster can feel more elitist about themselves, while the rest of us can be peons and bow to his great knowledge because he who subscribes to the Observer and hoards its contents for he and only he to share when he so desires shall be seen as the King of Kings. One dirtsheet to rule them all.

 

Maybe this should be moved to the NHB folder now.

[BUTT 0]

I think Hass of Pain is Jay Bower, am I right?

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

Thanks HTQ, good work. However, this thread has highlighted some of the biggest dickheads on this board, Case in point

 

Oh lord are you still yapping on?

 

Personally I wouldn't buy the newsletter, I just don't care THAT much - I read it when it's on here sure but honestly I wouldn't go out of the way for it since most of these bits and pieces can be found on wrestling websites all over the net within a few days of it coming out.

 

So you got sand in your vag because it's a big post this time - I guess if the infraction is smaller it's okay? You know like on your website. if you steal an Orange it's okay but not if you steal a whole bag?

 

Are you an idiot? Do you not pay any attention to what Haas has said? In regards to what is written on his site, it is okay if you reference or footnote. Anybody who has ever done a research paper will know that it is okay to quote so long as you reference the source that you got it from. Not taking any sides here but good god you are a fucking moron.