State Your Unpopular Opinions

[Guest Coffey]

• Triple H is the best worker on Raw.
• As far as commentary is concerned Jim Ross & Jerry Lawler both suck. Styles wasn't that bad and I thought Coach was good.
• "WWE style" isn't an excuse for a wrestler to be less entertaining.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Smackdown could feature a 30 minute ironman match between Khali and The Undertaker... a ten minute promo from Rey who goes back to doubting himself... and feature Mark Henry making a run ins in each match to injure someone, and it would still... somehow end up being better than Raw.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

- After Summerslam '97, Steve Austin didn't have a good match until 2001.

 

Yeah, the main event of WM14 was horrible, and that Over the Edge 98 match with Dude Love was one of the worst matches of all time. Let's not forget those horrible matches with The Rock at WM15 and Backlash 99, those guys don't know how to work at all. Oh and how can I forget that sloppy and dreadful Summerslam 98 main event with The Undertaker, why was Vince doing booking those 2 clowns in the main event!

 

WM 14 I'll buy. Even with Shawn's messed up back they still managed to have a pretty good match. The Dude Love and and Undertaker matches were solid, but they were hardly great. And no, I don't care for either of those matches against the Rock. As far as the "punch-kick-brawl into the crowd-break the announce table-overdo finishers" style that oversaturated every main event for most of '98 and '99 (and into 2000) the Rock matches were okay, but given the formula, that's not saying much. That terrible brawling formula killed a lot of those matches for me. There was just nothing to it.

 

The Dude Love match was more then just a wrestling match, it was the best booked wrestling match problay the WWE has ever done. The fued leading up to it and the match it self was amazing. It was more then just a wrestling match, it was why the WWF peaked. And the ending was just perfect. That was WWE at it's best.

 

To me, WWF at its best was stuff like the Bret/Owen saga.

 

I'm not going to argue that the Dude Love match was well booked and a good enough match. Best booked match ever is definitely stretching it. I might call it appropriate over-booking. I don't think it's necessarily WHY the WWF peaked, but it served its purpose. I'm not going to bash the match. But even you admit the best part about the match is the storyline and the booking. That's fine, but it doesn't exactly make me say, "Wow that Austin just had a killer match."

 

I just don't have a whole lot of love for much of the in-ring product from that era. The main events were the only matches that ever got any time at all but 95% of them just didn't interest me. Mostly it's the brawling and predictable formula that I mentioned earlier. I'm sorry, Austin/Kane, Austin/Rock (in 99), Austin/Vince, Austin/Undertaker (though I will admit Summerslam is their best match against each other), Austin/HHH (in 99) just didn't do it for me at all. Every match felt exactly the same. It was like they were just stalling for the finish and the first 15 minutes meant nothing. It was just mindless brawling with the predictable and pointless crowd/aisle brawling and announce table spots thrown in. Austin certainly used it the most, but Rock and HHH fell back on this at times too after Austin got hurt. Main events were just very underwhelming to me for a long time in between Bret's departure and the hot HHH/Foley series.

 

In hindsight, I should have said "After WM 14, Austin didn't have a good match until 2001." And from there, I'll give you this: the Dude Love match is good, and the Undertaker Summerslam match is pretty good. But other than that I can't think of another match I liked.

 

My point is this: for the better part of three years (late 97-early 01... and I know he missed some time with injuries in there), I really think he had three matches that can be considered good- Michaels, Dude Love, and Undertaker. 3 good matches in 3 years isn't very impressive. So while I admit my original statement may have been a little inaccurate, I completely stand by its sentiment.

 

Yeah but there is also arguement that the overall wrestling in that time period was horrible, but very entertaining and popular. When Vince Russo was in charge, his idea wasn't "We can build great ratings by great wrestling", he idea was more of making Pro Wrestling a normal "TV Show", granted it was entertaining, I grew up through that time period, and that was IMO as popular if not more then then Hulk Hogan era.

 

Steve Austin was still a capable wrestler then, but he didn't have the chance to wrestle againest Benoit, Angle, Jericho, RVD, and improved wrestlers in Rock and HHH.

 

That's what I'm trying to say. In your post you downside the legacy of Stone Cold, you're problay an older guy who grew up in the Hulkamania era who doesn't realize how popular wrestling was from 1998-2001.

 

If he grew up during the Hulkamania era, he had even more sucky wrestling and even more underwhelming Main Events. Watching Hogan during the Hulkamania is way more boring than watching Austin beat the crap out of The Rock. The dude has a point in that during the Attitude era the wrestling wasn't good even though they were really popular. I guess he started watching wrestling during Bret Hart's time on top with HBK and Austin fighting for the belt, 'cause they did put on great matches (that's because of Hart ofcourse).

 

I started watching sometime in 1990, and quickly caught up with the past via Coliseum Video so I was around for Hogan's days. I never liked Hogan either. Even as a kid I knew his matches were predictable and crappy. Was never a fan. I think Hogan influenced me to not care about main events (or at least not expect much from them) from early on. I just never cared about him. So my focus went to the rest of the card. And the main event was just kind of like an extra bonus attraction- not the main reason why I watched. That's probably why I remember the 92-94 era so fondly. It's the only time I truly cared about the main events. It's also why I hate it when people automatically state the champion is the ONE guy who draws the buyrate/audience. That's true at times, but there are many cases when it doesn't apply. Anyway....

 

Of course I realize how popular the Austin boom was. I'd been losing touch at points during '96 and '97 and the talk of all the screwjob fallout got me to watch again and Attitude and Crash TV were new and exciting. It sucked me right back in. Then I got the internet. By '98/'99 I was watching every week again. Believe me, I was there for the boom.

 

I don't hate Austin; he was just never that special to me. I love his matches with Bret, Benoit, Angle, the Savio Vega strap match is incredible, some of his WCW stuff, etc. I never related to his character at all. I'm not a hillbilly, I've never been to Texas, I don't hunt, I don't drive large vehicles, I have a full head of hair, and at 15 or 16 I had never chugged beers or dealt with an egomaniacal boss that I hated. I just never cared for his matches after the neck injury (until 01). But it's interesting that Hogan's name comes up, because to me, Austin was booked like a modern-day Hogan. He was the clear cut #1 guy. He was super human, even if he wasn't cartoonish and didn't "hulk up." He still kicked everyone's ass and once he won the Title he was unbeatable unless he was getting completely screwed over. And that bugged me. When guys like Flair, Savage (circa 92), Bret, Shawn, etc. had been on top, they weren't Superman. They were just hard workers that were the best wrestlers and that fact was readily apparent by watching their matches. With Austin, you never got that vibe. You were always very aware that he had the belt "because the fans eat up his shtick" rather than "because he's the best wrestler out there." Which is fine for business purposes- that's what wrestling's all about. It just personally doesn't do anything for me.

 

I'm not trying to argue Austin's legacy. That would be silly. I just didn't care for the matches. You're right that he had much better opponents to work with in '01, but that doesn't really change what I was saying: most of his matches from 98 and 99 were no good. Of course Russo had a major impact on the whole product. But my point remains.

 

Of course there's also this: Generally speaking, I don't like main attractions. I like the midcard over the main event. I like good contact hitters over sluggers; I'd rather see a line drive in the gap over a home run, or a great control pitcher (Maddux) over a guy that throws 98 but has no control. I like pure shooters over flashy dunkers; I'd rather watch Steve Kerr make 20 3's in a row in warm ups than Vince Carter in the slam dunk contest. Almost always, my favorite part of a song will be the verse instead of the chorus... perhaps not coincidentally, my favorite time period in the WWF would probably be from 1992-1994/5... right in between the two boom periods. Bret doing his thing in the main event was glorious. Kind of like Steve Nash being acknowledged as the MVP right now. I guess I'm just weird like that.

 

But anyway, all this is way off-topic. I'm sticking to my opinion that popular or not, the great majority of Austin's matches from 1998-2000 just weren't that good, with the few notable exceptions that we already discussed.

 

You think I could relate to Stone Cold? I am mixed race(Half Black/Half Hispanic), Canadian, who is sucked into the Hip Hop lifestyle. Alot of black people were Stone Cold fans also. You didn't have to relate to him to like him. There was never a character like him, everyone liked him because of his attitude. He just didn't give a fuck, if you were the boss. His fued with Vince has to be Top 10 in Wrestling history, you would tune in every week just to see if Austin was going to get his hands on Vince.

 

And saying Steve Kerr was a bad example because he was never shit but a jumpshot, he had no game. A better comparison would be Ray Allen. And Steve Nash shouldn't have been MVP both years, but that's a way different arguement which I don't want to get into right here.

[Downhome 0]

People could relate to and admire Stone Cold because he was a cocky bastard telling his boss to fuck off and that he was going to do things his way. That's what most people working under someone else would like to do, and that's a huge reason why so many different people loved the guy.

[humanoid92 0]

You think I could relate to Stone Cold? I am mixed race(Half Black/Half Hispanic), Canadian, who is sucked into the Hip Hop lifestyle. Alot of black people were Stone Cold fans also. You didn't have to relate to him to like him. There was never a character like him, everyone liked him because of his attitude. He just didn't give a fuck, if you were the boss. His fued with Vince has to be Top 10 in Wrestling history, you would tune in every week just to see if Austin was going to get his hands on Vince.

 

And saying Steve Kerr was a bad example because he was never shit but a jumpshot, he had no game. A better comparison would be Ray Allen. And Steve Nash shouldn't have been MVP both years, but that's a way different arguement which I don't want to get into right here.

 

The reason I used Kerr is because I saw him in warm ups before a game a few years back and he drained like 30 shots in a row effortlessly. It was a thing of beauty. And I love that Nash is MVP, but you're right, we shouldn't get into any more of that stuff here.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone who did like Stone Cold was a redneck. Just that I never personally related to or liked him any more than I did anyone else on the show. Sure, a lot of the Austin/Vince feud made for great TV but when it came to any of the actual matches I just couldn't get into them. I totally understand the reason he caught on and I'm fine with it. But I still didn't like most of his matches. I'm confused as to how this became a pro/anti Austin issue (I'm really somewhere in the middle) when the statement was about his match quality in '98 and '99. And since that was what my opinion was about, I stand behind it.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Alright that's understandable, just like I think Bret Hart is overrated at times. He was a great wrestler, but I found other wrestlers like Austin more entertaining. And I am from Calgary. I always perfered Owen over Bret.

[Boon 0]

Smackdown needs Randy Orton.

[Scroby 0]

Smackdown needs Randy Orton.

 

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Smackdown needs live bodies, period. I'm convinced OVW is screwed, everyone's going either to Smackdown/Velocity or ECW, I think.

[jester 0]

This is one of the most enjoyable threads we've had here in a long time.

 

A few more of mine:

 

Billy and Chuck was a great angle. And by not following through on the angle, WWE pissed away some good money and support from a community that probably wouldn't have normally given them the time of day.

 

The Undertaker must lose clean at a Wrestlemania sooner or later.

 

The Rock should not be brought back unless he can commit to something approaching a regular schedule that includes wrestling.

 

Mick Foley's column that "criticizes" WWE is Vince's way of having it both ways: making an unpopular decision and appearing to allow people to question it. Without anything meaningful happen.

[Guest Princess Leena]

Smackdown could feature a 30 minute ironman match between Khali and The Undertaker... a ten minute promo from Rey who goes back to doubting himself... and feature Mark Henry making a run ins in each match to injure someone, and it would still... somehow end up being better than Raw.

 

It seriously would too...

 

I'd rather take crappy matches instead of whatever warped, stupid crap involving the McMahons every week.

 

And I've said it before... SD is far superior to Raw. Even though match quality is obviously lower in 2006 than before, it crushes Raw. I hate when people say SD should be buried because they have no star power. I think most of the people who say that don't bother watching the show. Which I fully understand because of SD's horrible timeslot. But, if most did bother to watch it, and aren't TNA fanboys... they'd agree it's the best free TV show by far.

[Just John 0]

I thought Kenzo Suzuki's finisher was cool.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I watch Smackdown every week...Im not gonna miss it come September when I cant watch it anymore.

 

When the greatest thing about Smackdown is Mark Henry..its just sad.

[Taker666 0]

I watch Smackdown every week...Im not gonna miss it come September when I cant watch it anymore.

 

When the greatest thing about Smackdown is Mark Henry..its just sad.

 

You actually think Mark Henry is better than King Booker!!??

[goldengreek 0]

--This is a great thread!!! Alot of ranting,raving,passion, and great ideas and perspectives.

 

-- I'M stunned and shocked at all the RVD, Jericho,Benoit, and Angle hate. You guys are nuts!

 

-Goofy Angle > that angry Angle

-Randy Orton is under-rated and hated for no reason. Not his fault he was pushed too soon, won the belt too early, and jobbed to the Taker for a year. He is great in the ring and above average on the mic

-Goldberg was the most over-rated, untalented piece of shit ever. Keep him away from my T.V. forever!!!!

-HHH is not that bad of a guy and doesnt have as much power as people think

-Tazz sucks balls as a color guy!!!!! Horrible

-WWE "ENTERTAINMENT" IS GOOD, BUT..

-WWE wrestling style SUX and has riuned, slowed down, and hindered a ton of wrestlers

- I love matches filled with spotfests

-love technical wresting matches

-cruisers rule!

-How can People "hate" or rag on RVD when the WWE cut out half if not more of his movesets

-jerry lynn / lance storm matches ruled

-Rvd/ jerry lynn matches ruled

-I like mike awesome

-mike jindrak, and shawn O' haire are studs that the WWE has dropped the ball on. Big guys with real wrestling talents and insane moves. Yeah lets throw them away, release them and bury them

-The drop in ratings is directly correlated with the abscence of The Rock

-The Rock = Best wrestler promos of all time.

-The Rock was a better wrestler than people raelise. Again the wwe cutting people movesets in half. Does no one remember the top rope and highflying moves of rocky maivia?

-Flair still gots it and I enjoy seeing him on t..v

-Flair and Taker should both have one more title run before they retire

-Christian > than edge

-A minimum of 5-10 wrestlers should be intuduced and pushed from OVW every year

-Pay The Rock $5-10 millinon a year and bring his ass back

-Foley / Rock I quit match underated and one of the most brutal matched ever. 20-25 chair shots to the head in a row???!!!

-Umanga bores me

-What are guys like Scotty 2 Hotty, Funaki, and The bashams, still on the roster

- WWE dropped the ball on good talent like val venis, simon dean,rvd, charlie hass, rhyno, shelton benjamin, Jendrick, o'haire, william regal and that young frech kid with the poodle(forgot his name)

-HATE talentless big guys like Test, the problem solver, and snitsky

-Although I am attracted to brunnetes, Trish stratus is the hottest diva by far

-kristal is the 2nd hottest

-melina 3rd, candace 4th

-micky james is ugly

-lita is even uglier and owns only one shirt

-Victoria is thr best female wrestler by far and is under-used

-I already hate mike the miz--fuck off and die jackass

-

[goldengreek 0]

My opinions

 

I like JBL. He is an entertaining heel, and he has the promo skills to properly build up a feud.

 

The Spirit Squad is entertaining. The moves that they pull out is a breath of fresh air. You never know what you are going to see them do during a match. The trampoline is a great addition for their offense.

 

Ken Kennedy is should be a main eventer by Wrestlemania 23. However, he is going to be pushed to the moon when he returns from injury.

 

Stephanie McMahon is not as ugly as everyone makes her out to be. Sure she can't write a good storyline, but that is another point altogether.

 

Jerry Lawler is only entertaining when he is in full heel mode. Other then that he is hopelessly annoying.

 

Melina is nice to look at. I like how many of you say that she is ugly, yet if she came up to you at the bar and asked you to go back to her place I am sure you would go back with her.

Melina is HOTTTTTTTTTT and whoever doesnt think so is a homo

[Taker666 0]

-Fans talk about the wrestling matches today being slow and boring when, in fact, matches were WAY worse during the attitude era.

 

-Melina is the second hottest Diva in WWE(after Mickie James of course)

 

-Torrie Wilson is overrated

 

-The Undertaker is still one of the best wrestlers in WWE today.

 

-The Eugene charater is the stupidest thing in WWE right now

[Slickster 0]

- WWE should hire Scott Hudson and pair him with Cole on SmackDown.

- I don't understand why WWE doesn't have a clear-cut system of talent allocation. You'd think that by now they'd have an NWA-sized pool of promotions they have a working relationship with. Why doesn't WWE have a minor league affiliate in Japan? Or the United Kingdom? Or Canada? Instead of letting the NWA/AWA pick up affiliations with every company under the sun, sign an agreement with these smaller indies. I'm not saying make them all OVWs, but ensure WWE talent scouts come by every so often to check out the wrestlers. Also, make sure that WWE has first priority on all people in that promotion (to prevent other companies from raiding them). In return, the promotion can say they're a WWE affiliate and gets a discounted rate on using WWE talent for their own live events. Plus, they would provide the jobbers for whenever WWE comes nearby (which gives guys a chance to be on TV).

 

- In short, WWE is the #1 brand of wrestling in the world and they need to take advantage of this. The NFL is the #1 American football league and they definitely take advantage. They run a flag football league, Punt/Pass/Kick, NFL Europe, control 49% of the Arena Football League, and support high school, Canadian, and Pop Warner football. WWE needs to give their brand greater exposure and make themselves the be-all, end-all of the wrestling biz to choke out all N. American competition.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I don't want WWE to be the Wal-Mart of wrestling. It's already far too powerful.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

Right to Censor was a great faction. The concept of a group on a moral crusade to change WWE was unique.

[Scroby 0]

-For everytime Mike the Miz says "Hoorah", I get a greater urge to punch him in the face.

[benoit4hor 0]

- Kenny is more entertaining than Jay Lethal and has a much brighter future.

[Guest Coffey]

-For everytime Mike the Miz says "Hoorah", I get a greater urge to punch him in the face.

Man, he made Smackdown REALLY hard to watch this week.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

-Fans talk about the wrestling matches today being slow and boring when, in fact, matches were WAY worse during the attitude era.

I have noticed that free tv wise, the matches today seem to be a lot better than in the Attitude era..ever since they went back to commercial breaks in matches (which I hate sort of) instead of trying to fit whole matches into segments..I imagine with WWE Unlimited (which I cant get with my slow connection) its not that bad.

 

-Melina is the second hottest Diva in WWE(after Mickie James of course)

Not really a big Melina fan..but I cant really think of a "2nd hottest diva" behind Mickie..so uh..yeah. And its only because of her entrance and the fact that its live now and probably cant be blurred..

 

-Torrie Wilson is overrated

I dont know how Torrie Wilson is over rated..and now she's probably the diva with the best wrestling ability on Smackdown..which says more for the other divas than her ability.

 

-The Undertaker is still one of the best wrestlers in WWE today.

Problem with Taker is that he hardly does free TV anymore.

 

-The Eugene charater is the stupidest thing in WWE right now.

Two Words: Spirit Squad...actually thats the gayest thing in WWE right now..um..

[Lil' Bitch 0]

RVD and Orton deserve the world title.

 

Cena is a better champion than Batista.

[goldengreek 0]

-For everytime Mike the Miz says "Hoorah", I get a greater urge to punch him in the face.

X2

get this prick of my t.v.

[goldengreek 0]

RVD and Orton deserve the world title.

 

Cena is a better champion than Batista.

Agree with the first sentence

second sentece, I dont know, they both suck equally

[Wally Balls 0]

I didn't get a chance to catch The Miz on Smackdown. I saw some of his previous vignettes and thought he was a absolute retard.

 

I hope Raw doesn't feature a main event with the Spirit Squad involved. Let's hope the WWE mixes up a little bit and for once, doesn't make the entire show predictable.

 

Carlito needs to wrestle tonight. I would love to see him beat Shelton Benjamin for the IC title. Shelton Benjamin is good, but his personality absolutley sucks.

 

RVD shouldn't hit the water bong before cutting his promos. Maybe he would be better on the mic if he could enunciate all of his words.

 

I hope the Spirit Squad loses the titles tonight. I dont care to whom, I just want the titles off of these guys. Whenever they wrestle it's always some sort of outside interference from the rest of the queers that ends the match.

 

I hope Kurt Angle shows up and turns heel. I know the show is in Pittsburgh, but heel Kurt Angle is soooooooooooo much better than Face Kurt Angle.

 

I just want The Rock to make an appearance....just once

 

Sorry to say this guys, but Raw doesn't feel right without JR and King doing commentary.

 

John Cena should freestyle.

[Epic Reine 0]

Stacy Kiebler isn't that cute. Way too skinny for my liking.

[Taker666 0]

-I still don't get how Val Venis, Scotty 2 Hotty and Hardcore Holly as still employed, they seem out of place now with the new crop of Superstars here in 2006

 

-Is there any use for Ric Flair anymore?

 

-I think the World Heavyweight Title does, infact, carry the linage of the NWA/WCW title

 

-Alot of the wrestler's wives and girlfriends are alot hotter than some of the WWE divas

 

-The Great Kahli isn't really THAT bad

 

-They need to ditch Triple H's "The Game" theme and replace it with the "King of Kings" theme. its a much cooler song. the video kicks ass to

 

-I wouldn't have mind if Batista held the title longer than he did, he was an entertaing champion and wasn't overpushed like Cena

 

-I actually miss the Original "Undisputed" WWE Title Belt. I can't stand that stupid spinning thing!