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iliketurtles

Has Mick Foley ruined his legacy?

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Now I'm certain a fan and supporter of Mick Foley both in and out of the ring and I've looked up to him as well being somewhat of a wrestling purist and still believing in the art of it despite how the industry goes today. I think it's safe to say he's done enough in wrestling to be remembered forever, and he's one of the most respected and looked up guys both in the locker room and outside of it.

 

But what in the hell is he doing wasting his time with this?

 

Watching RAW tonight (among the other fucking shit that happened), I noticed how Foley's heat is GONE. Fans aren't sure what they are suppose to do when he comes out. There is no direction in his character. I can understand the old Cactus Jack ECW heel days but he's reached that certain point in WWE (Like Austin, Taker, Rock, Triple H, Angle, etc.) that certain guys become so popular and "good" that the fans will never take them serious as a heel anymore. For some reason I had flashbacks tonight of Foley retiring at Wrestlemania 16, flashbacks of Foley feuding with Evolution in 2004, and just recently Foley feuding with Edge. I was watching his 3 on 2 handicap match from Wrestlemania 20 (which is also a underrated and underappreciated match) and that was really enjoyable. Even though the rehashed the HHH/Foley stuff with Orton/Foley, it did help Orton in the long run (even though he's a piece of shit).

 

I just don't understand what he's got left to prove and what he's really doing. Edge was the best heel on RAW before Foley and he's about the same now that he's aligned with him. I just have to think once One Night Stand is over, Mick Foley has to get the hell out for a while because I don't even know the point anymore. He always said he never wanted to end up like Terry Funk, constantly retiring and coming back, but that has indeed happened. The only thing left I think Foley can do is wrestle Angle next year at Wrestlemania in either a Farewell match or something.

 

 

Who's going to remember this stuff in the future? Who the hell is going to remember the shit he did with Carlito back in October of 2005? Who's going to remember (or believe) the fact that he's anti-ECW when he's made his career being hardcore?

 

Either or, I've been dissapointed with what he's doing because this is how I don't want to remember Mick Foley. It seems like just yesterday I was watching the "I Will Remember You" tribute to Foley after No Way Out 2000 and beliving that really was it. And now here we are six years later and I don't even know if Foley knows what he's doing out there.

 

And the fact they've totally ruined ECW by having Randy Orton involved with the PPV, it just makes me think that they can never consistently do it right. I guess ECW One Night Stand 2005 was a mistake.

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Guest Princess Leena

Mick hasn't ruined his legacy, but he's certainly lost some fans in the past few years with constantly fake retirements... and always being a whore.

 

And no Farewell match, or anything. How many of those has he had now? Why should we believe him? He may have had more of those than Roger Clemens. Just job in some match, and that's it.

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Foley feuding with Edge and then of all a sudden being buddies with him is so Russo-ish booking, its not even funny.

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I think WWE's writers had no idea how to get Foley on the PPV and probably thought up this lame "Be Edge's friend" bullshit one night and decided to go with it.

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Guest NitroJMS

Foley's return might have had more impact back in 2001 during the WWF vs. Alliance storyline, but that never materialized despite rumors that he would feud with Regal back then. The heavy fan turnover since the 1997-2001 boom period has basically relegated him to a legend who people know but not necessarily someone that many fans have a deep seated memory of since he was never the mainstream draw that Hogan, Austin or Rock were.

 

As a fan who hasn't been that interested in the product since about 2004, I just see Foley doing mainly useless returns and going back on his word of going out on top. He should have let WrestleMania XX be his sole "comeback" and it would have meant something by putting over Orton and having a great tag match with his best tag partner. Now he's coming back every 6-12 months for various reasons and it's basically meaningless now. He's becoming as repetitive and useless as post-Wrestlemania 19 Austin since he's not contributing in a full time way like Shawn, nor is he particularly over nor influential over storylines.

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Guest dropkickguy

I think that Foley has sort of tainted his legacy in the eyes of his most loyal fans. I applaud him for comprimising that for the future sucess of the business (i.e. jobbing to new talent) In my eyes Foley is just a veteran with enough star power that no matter what he does at this point his career he can't lose his accomplishments.... and if he can be used to elevate talent all the better.

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Guest Hotbutter Spoontoaster

Foley should be Edge's long-time manager, like Flair was to Triple H.

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Guest El Satanico

Why would anyone expect Foley to stay retired?

 

He's good friends with Terry Funk...do you really think he takes retirement serious. He'll probably be cheap popping audiences into his 80's.

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I applaud him for comprimising that for the future sucess of the business

 

Maybe under different circumstances I'd say 'yeah.'

 

For the sake of an Orton push, though? For the sake of a shitty foreign heel push? Fuck him. Fuck him in the ear.

 

Of course, it's pathetic they have to go to a retired guy to put over one of Vince's golden boys because HHH won't job to their worthless asses.

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I've never understood this thought that if a guy returns to the ring when he's older, suddenly he's "destroying his legacy" or whatever. Does Foley coming back erase everything he's accomplished in professional wrestling? No, of course not.

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I was under the impression everything Foley is doing right now is his own idea, not just following strange orders from WWE writers.

 

That said, his legacy since 2000 has been putting people over and looking good at the same time. He did it with HHH, tried with Orton (and suceeded, I believe, until WWE turned Orton face one day after winning the title), and is now trying with Edge.

 

I think people are just mad he didn't go put Joe over in TNA.

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I never said it was erasing his accomplishments. I'm saying it's tainting the memories.

 

Look at Flair...I'll never look at him the same. In the past 2 years, he's lost to people like Rico and Umaga CLEAN. This is Ric Flair! That's not putting over new talent, that's jobbing an old legend for nothing.

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It really depends on what you have seen of Foley besides the last five years. There a lot of people who probably only know Foley as "Mick Foley and Socko" Just like there are plenty of people who only know Flair as the over-the-hill flabby-breasted 2nd-fiddle character he has been for about 10 years.

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I don't see him destroying his legacy, just being the guy who is hanging around way too long and bringing nothing to the table. His promos are becoming cookie cutter and awful, beating him in a match offers nothing anymore since everyone from Goldust to Al Snow has pinned him by this point, and all he's doing is taking up tv time and making me realize how incredibly boring Foley is when he doesn't have someone to respond and react to him.

 

His legacy is fine, it's just he's worth about as much as one of those wrestlers under a Legends Contract. Nothing.

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I was watching one of my FMW tapes that my friends got me that has Mick's last match outside of the WWE for awhile in a 6 man tag. There's a Cactus Jack promo right before it and he still does that little squeal voice and it was when he was in his Mankind "pull out my own hair" gimmick so he's sort of bald on one side.

 

It was the rule.

 

I don't see what he is doing now as tarnishing his legacy in anyway. He is still entertaining in my opinion, and this isn't going to take anything away from his legacy at all.

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Damn, people. Where did all this Foley hate come from?

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Guest Princess Leena

I don't hate Foley, but at least until this heel turn, many people got tired of his shtick, and ceased finding him entertaining. It's fine that he mostly jobs to new stars, but his whorish character just wasn't likable anymore.

 

And this heel turn, I don't like either. Like someone mentioned earlier, his "friendship" with Edge seems so quickly slapped together. I'm not feeling this ECW feud either, as there's too much smarky shit in there. The crowds (at least the West Coast ones) had no idea what they're talking about, and that makes any speaking segments horribly boring.

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And this heel turn, I don't like either. Like someone mentioned earlier, his "friendship" with Edge seems so quickly slapped together.

 

 

Right. His friendship with Terry Funk makes sense, they have battled each other through the years in some hellacious matches, and Funk who was once considered the hardcore king, passed the torch to Foley, years ago. The mutual respect they have for each other, in the midst of all the beatings they have given each other, MAKES SENSE, that is why the Foley/Funk confrontations have been enjoyable. The shit with Edge, I mean, you mean to tell me Foley is all of the sudden going to have that same respect for Edge after one fucking match? Even for marks, they gotta be saying, "Are you fucking kidding me" It is just a stupid angle that is ruining it.

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There is a really bad foundation with this, and from what I've read, this is pretty much all of Foleys idea, which really does taint my opinion of him, at least from a creative perspective. Foley is my favourite interview, ever, and part of that is the creative and "realness" of his promos.

 

The foundation itself is "Foley wants to put an end to ECW because he doesn't want anyone to tarnish is WM match with Edge". There is a bunch of stuff in that which is hard to buy. First, A MATCH? That's retarded. Family, Friends, even a possession if well built and established as being important, Respect, PRIDE and Honour, etc. These are things we as fans can understand as being worth fighting over, but a match and match quality? That's too smarky, and really reaching for Foley. And it's on that we are supposed to believe that Foley and Edge are all chummy. It's ironic that Foley and Edges feud was lame because it was hard to buy tthe two hated each other because of their previous, friendly, interactions, and now it is hard to buy them as friendly because of that very feud.

 

Second, if you lack the brain cells to buy that angle, you are still to believe that ECW is a potential threat to usurp the WM 22 match, when all we have seen from ECW in this feud and on WWE TV is kendo sticks, tables, and chairs. Simply put, ECW isn't a legitimate threat. It's an ill-founded feud that has been poorly executed, and most -if not all- of that is because of Foley. Foley had an idea, which was for him and Edge to team against Dreamer and Funk, and couldn't fill in the blanks and connect the dots to get him there. The feud has its moments, but because the foundation and premise is so faulty, it doesn't really matter.

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There is a really bad foundation with this, and from what I've read, this is pretty much all of Foleys idea, which really does taint my opinion of him, at least from a creative perspective. Foley is my favourite interview, ever, and part of that is the creative and "realness" of his promos.

 

When Foley was on RAW a few weeks ago and talked about how the match at Wrestlemania was the greatest hardcore match ever and how he was the biggest superstar ever, I immediately knew this was Foley's idea because of his philosphy of "heels believe in whatever they say, even if it's totally wrong" and because Foley has gone on record saying he's wanted to get involved with Kurt Angle for some time, it definately has Foley's finger prints all over which bothers me even more.

 

As far his alliance with Edge it's just like Stone Cold and HHH becoming allies in 2001. It makes NO SENSE. They fucking beat each other's brains out and then weeks later they're all "Let's just join up." That is also happening right now and you think they'd know better by now, especially someone like Foley.

 

Another thing that someone else on the board pointed out that also just BAFFLES me is that they have done absoutely nothing to promote or even put over Tommy Dreamer. If you weren't a fan of ECW, you don't even know who the fuck this guy is at all. You'd think they would at least have him have the stick or something.

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Guest The Imp

Foley turns on Edge at ONS (to show his allegiance to ECW) and the IWC loves him again sometime around 10pm on Sunday night...then the Foley legacy will shine bright once again...

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Yeah, I also meant to say that Foley's attempts at trying to make this "real" has made it "real"ly lame. Completely off the mark and, actually, pretty darn lazy as there are many alternatives that could have had Foley (a)against ECW, and (b)teaming with Edge.

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Guest Princess Leena

As I didn't watch ECW back in the day... only from watching fairly current TV, Dreamer is just a former WWE jobber who won the Hardcore title 50 times. You're right that they haven't built him up, whatsoever. All of ONS was a hurried mess. I really dread how awful it could be.

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I can't speak for the IWC, but personally, this has hurt Foley in my eyes. This is a guy who cut some of the best promos I have ever heard, this is a guy who had me -for a brief moment (which is actually saying something)- believing he wanted to kill Randy Orton, and here he is crumbling both in regards to character and promos because of a faulty, lame, premise. And even worse, they are unable recover because they can't even see how bad it is.

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Guest Coffey

Dreamer jobbed all the time in ECW too. Hell, he won the World Title and then lost it before he ever got to wear it. That's basically what his gimmick was. He just wouldn't give up. He'd keep failing, but he'd never quit. Then when he did manage to win, it was always a big deal. Like his feud with Raven.

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Foley turns on Edge at ONS (to show his allegiance to ECW) and the IWC loves him again sometime around 10pm on Sunday night...then the Foley legacy will shine bright once again...

 

Only if he leaves and never EVER comes back. Foley wore out his welcome for me around the time he came back to face Orton.

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The difference between jobbing and being perceived as a jobber is a big one. In ECW Tommy was a player, in WWE he was a pawn. In this feud, as 1/4 of the match, he should be a player. The sell on this match is basically the Foley and Edge supposed "super"-team, as Funk and Dreamer are essentially non-issues.

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