UFC 61: Bitter Rivals

[Damaramu 0]

I really wanted Tito to win because Shamrock just drove me crazy on TUF3 but I just rewatched Forrest/Tito and heard the shit Tito talked about Randy after the fight and that was irritating.

I hope they knock each other out........somehow.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I was just thinking that Shamrock pulling it out would fuck up so much for UFC that I almost want it to happen.

 

Almost.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

If Shamrock wins, would it be a bigger upset then Ian Freeman beating Frank Mir??

[Guest Brian]

There's absolutely no chance in hell of it happening, so it doesn't matter. Shamrock in his state, coming off a piss poor performance against Sakuraba, having to cut weight. Even if Tito's knee is bothering him, Tito can beat him standing.

[Lei Tong 0]

If Shamrock wins, would it be a bigger upset then Ian Freeman beating Frank Mir??

 

Definitely. Mir was a hot-shit prospect to many people, but many others also felt that he hadn't really been tested yet, especially by a slugger by Freeman, who though never anything special, was a step-up from Traven & Williams.

 

Tito, on the other hand, still has the skills of a Top 10 LHW, and Ken hasn't looked good in FOREVER. Add in the completely one sided ass kicking Tito already handed him, and there's no way Ken winning wouldn't be one of the biggest upsets in recent memory. The only thing that could possibly dull the shock is if Tito comes in looking completely unprepared to fight due to his injuries, but even at 50% Tito would have to be a favorite.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Well, I caught the All-Access with Tito Ortiz and it showed his training. By the looks of it I think his knee is healed and his training has been going great. He sounds prepared.

[starvenger 0]

I think Ortiz beating Shamrock is pretty much a forgone expectation.

 

So where does everyone stand on Arlovski-Sylvia?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I think Ortiz beating Shamrock is pretty much a forgone expectation.

 

So where does everyone stand on Arlovski-Sylvia?

 

Sylvia by 1st Round KO.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

--The match line-up, in order for Saturday night's UFC 61 and odds from PinnacleSports.com:

Dark matches

Kurt Pellegrino +140 vs. Drew Fickett -150

Cheick Kongo -117 vs. Gilbert Aldana +107

Anthony Perosh +534 vs. Jeff Monson -594

Joe Jordan vs. Hermes Franca

 

Live matches

Joe Stevenson +192 vs. Yves Edwards -212

Dan Christison +226 vs. Frank Mir -246

Ken Shamrock +491 vs. Tito Ortiz -541

Josh Burkman +118 vs. Josh Neer -128

Tim Sylvia +244 vs. Andrei Arlovsky -264 for the heavyweight title

So they are making the call to put the real main event in the middle. They are doing the perception thing to make the title match appear to be the main event. Plus, it lessens the sting of an expected blow-out by having what will likely be a more competitive match on last.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Personally, I just don't see the draw of this show. Everyone knows Tito is goign to smash Ken. In fact, if Tito LOSES this fight then his career in the UFC is virtually over. There would be absolutely no where else to go with him.

 

The main event seems like the only real pull of the show, and even then, if Arlovski doesn't smash Sylvia I'll be shocked. Arlovski took Sylvia lightly the second fight, and by all account (in direct contrast to the second fight), he's been training like a madman and seems legitimately pissed off that he was beaten.

 

Arlovski by leg submission Rd 1 again.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Hmmm, I might have to lay a bit of cash on Christison and Stevenson.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Personally, I just don't see the draw of this show. Everyone knows Tito is goign to smash Ken. In fact, if Tito LOSES this fight then his career in the UFC is virtually over. There would be absolutely no where else to go with him.

 

I wouldn't say that... I mean he is coming off a big injury, and there is always room for a 3rd fight.

[KingPK 0]

Wow, if that's the order of matches then Neer/Burkman is going to be the Trish/Lita/Jazz triple threat of this card in terms of crowd heat.

 

Although I doubt Tito/Ken will go past two rounds, I think the Heavyweight title match could be interesting. I think both guys know full well what the other is capable of and the match will come down to skill and who wants it more.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Wow, if that's the order of matches then Neer/Burkman is going to be the Trish/Lita/Jazz triple threat of this card in terms of crowd heat.

 

Although I doubt Tito/Ken will go past two rounds, I think the Heavyweight title match could be interesting. I think both guys know full well what the other is capable of and the match will come down to skill and who wants it more.

 

I agree with your view on the HW fight, which is why I think Sylvia will win. He wanted the fight right away to end Arlovski's UFC career!

[starvenger 0]

Wow, if that's the order of matches then Neer/Burkman is going to be the Trish/Lita/Jazz triple threat of this card in terms of crowd heat.

 

Although I doubt Tito/Ken will go past two rounds, I think the Heavyweight title match could be interesting. I think both guys know full well what the other is capable of and the match will come down to skill and who wants it more.

 

I agree with your view on the HW fight, which is why I think Sylvia will win. He wanted the fight right away to end Arlovski's UFC career!

Question - does Arlovski even speak English? Because any promo I see for that fight that actually has talking features Sylvia...

[KingPK 0]

He does. He has the Ivan Drago accent a bit, but he does.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Maybe it's because I'm tired of rematches, but even if Ken beat Tito, I still wouldn't be interested in Tito/Ken III. The likelihood of Tito losing even messed up is almost micro small though.

 

If Ken beats Tito, then that completely fucks UFC's plan for Liddell/Tito II, if Liddell survives his title defense soon (I remember reading he'll face...Babalu? Someone) with his title that is. Maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing afterall though.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Huzzah, I was correct!

 

If I remember right, they fought before, and Liddell knocked him the fuck out. I doubt it'll be different this time.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

That card is looking much better than this one:

 

Chuck vs. Babalu

Loiseau vs. Swick

FLorian vs. Sherk (For the vacant LW Title)

Terrell vs. Either Anderson Silva or Nate the Great.

 

The last three are rumoured, but these rumours for cards generally turn out true barring injury or something similar. It's amazing what a difference injuries to top guys will make on the quality of UFC shows.

[Adam 0]

Yeah, Chuck beat him down at UFC40 with the number 1 contendorship on the line, IIRC.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Arlovski actually speaks very good english, he just prefers to give people the impression that he's only half-learned.

[randomguy 0]

You guys are too hard on Ken. He is good. He is also old and worn down.

 

Ken did well when the competition was softer but he isn't a Tank. He has some legit skills.

 

Most of these "old school" vs. "new school" matches are stupid because all the old school guys are just that - old. I'm not going to say that Ken from 1996 or so could beat Tito or Franklin but it would at least be a hell of a lot closer.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Huzzah, I was correct!

 

If I remember right, they fought before, and Liddell knocked him the fuck out. I doubt it'll be different this time.

 

Babalu is a much better fighter this time around, if you don't give him a shot this time, your going to be in for a suprise.

 

That card is looking much better than this one:

 

Chuck vs. Babalu

Loiseau vs. Swick

FLorian vs. Sherk (For the vacant LW Title)

Terrell vs. Either Anderson Silva or Nate the Great.

 

The last three are rumoured, but these rumours for cards generally turn out true barring injury or something similar. It's amazing what a difference injuries to top guys will make on the quality of UFC shows.

 

No way they put Anderson Silva in this fight, they just had him fight Chris Leben and look like the strongest contender for Franklin's title... Why would they want to risk it and have him fight pretty much a month later? It makes no sense.

 

I heard about the Loiseau Vs. Swick fight, should be good, I favor Loiseau because he's more of a polished fighter then Swick.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Right now, I think you'd have to be a world class wrestler to get Chuck down and keep him there, and you're only hope as a striker would either to hit harder (Very doubtful) or hit faster. That said, Sherdog says Babalu has went 10-0-0 in his fights since Liddell, that is pretty impressive. Too bad only three of them were in the UFC.

 

God-bless Sherdog's Fighter Finder...

 

Back to 61...Am I really the only person underwealmed by the show? Cause it seems that I am. The MMA friends I have are excited for the show, but I just am not feeling nothing. If I had had the money, I would have gotten the OW GP show from Pride over this one. I'm poor.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Fuck does Arlovski ever need to win this fight. If he doesn't then we may very well see a Nog/Fedor situation develop where there's a guy good to enough to beat everybody but the champion. I'd imagine if Arlovski lost they'd build up Brandon Vera to take him on in the hopes Vera would win (which he could).

[starvenger 0]

I heard about the Loiseau Vs. Swick fight, should be good, I favor Loiseau because he's more of a polished fighter then Swick.

This is almost like a "relegation" fight. You could argue that Swick is at the top of the "B" middleweights, while Loiseau hasn't fought in the UFC since his title fight. A loss won't hurt Swick, while a win by Swick would send Loiseau to the Ultimate Fight Night rotation. Or Quebec.

 

I'd imagine if Arlovski lost they'd build up Brandon Vera to take him on in the hopes Vera would win (which he could).

They should really showcase Vera more on the UFNs. It'd be worth it for the promos alone.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

They will but I think with the losses of Leben and Bonnar on the last UFN UFC is starting to realize that they can't keep their golden boys sheltered forever.

 

Plus, Vera has only been on one UFN and I honestly don't see him going back, especially not if the Buentello rumours are true.

[Guest ravman77]

My online bookie is offering 1/7 on a Tito win. I was thinking about sticking some money on but those are shocking odds. £20 (About $37) gets me back £2.86 ($5). Anyone think its worth it? Surely Tito's gonna kill him...right?

[Lei Tong 0]

Tito SHOULD kill him, but Tito's chin & injuries keeps a bet on him being "free money," like Monson/Perrosh.