The great Money matches that Could have been...

[Guest Overworked]

I start this thread because I was thinking the other day about the Wrestlemania match between Brock Lesnar and Goldberg. Back then as Trivia I think I was on when it was playing and I commented on how the match just bombed. It was pretty apparent at the time I wasn't much of a fan of either of them at that point, however I wasn't blind to the capabilities of them in a match together would have been awesome. So what went wrong? a Smark New York crowd catching wind to Goldberg's leaving and contempt with WWE, and with Brock's also departure and abandoning the company for trying the NFL. Now both men could have went through match and ignored the Turmoil of the crowd, and probably could have produced such a great match between them that at the end would turn the crowd over and made them enjoy. But no that didn't occur, they spent long moments on either end of the ring just staring at each other like lumps, finally wrestled a few minutes then a quick ending. Brock even flicking the fans off, before SCSA stunned him and Goldberg.

 

Now, what would have happen I believe that this could have been one of those Money matches. (alla Rock vs Hogan) You had two men regardless of their motivations were powerful performers at tha top or near top of their game. Both men given the Role of being totally Dominating in the ring winning their matches 99% of the time, no matter who they faced from low to Main eventer. The match I think would have been an excellent back and forth event and would probably very much enjoy it (Probably the only time i'd ever enjoy watching a Goldberg match) They were in essence completely equal in size and power and technique. The match could have gone far longer, had they put their heart and spirit into it. In either case I don't see room for sympathy over the crowd reaction to them. If they run the risk of whatever ventures they are doing to be leaked out to the wrestling fan base then perhaps they should grow thicker skins to the crowd reaction.

 

Now this was just an example, is there other Money matches out there that was either ruined for one reason or another or perhaps matches that you would want to see or Wish would have happen if the performers were in the same company, or were able to lock up?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Hogan Vs. Flair for Wrestlemania VIII, would've happened without a hitch had it not been for the steroid scandal.

[King Cucaracha 0]

RVD vs. Awesome in ECW.

 

I don't know how much actual money it would have drawn, but in terms of ECW it was a money match. But RVD broke his ankle and Awesome left before Rob returned.

 

 

Hogan vs. Goldberg was a money match that happened, but was ruined by being on TV instead of PPV.

[Betty Houle 0]

Hogan Vs. Flair for Wrestlemania VIII, would've happened without a hitch had it not been for the steroid scandal.

 

I don't believe the steroid scandal had anything to do with Flair-Hogan not happening at Mania.

[GODSON 0]

Hogan vs. Goldberg was a money match that happened, but was ruined by being on TV instead of PPV.

 

I always thought the first Hogan/Flair match felt like a regular ppv main event instead of one of the biggest matches of all time.

 

Goldberg vs. Hogan part 2 should of happen

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

first double post eva

[Man Who Sold The World 0]

Austin vs Hogan, right around the time after NWO squandered in WWE. Still would've have been them in their prime, but imagine the promo's for that one!

 

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H. This match could've been HUGE.

[MDH257 0]

Hogan Vs. Flair for Wrestlemania VIII, would've happened without a hitch had it not been for the steroid scandal.

 

I don't believe the steroid scandal had anything to do with Flair-Hogan not happening at Mania.

 

Well, Hogan was going on sabatical after WM because of the bad press. If he had wrestled Flair at WM you'd of had one of three things.

1.) Flair beats Hogan, which Hogan would never would have agreed to.

2.) Hogan beats Flair, Which couldn't happen since Hogan couldn't win the title if he was about to leave.

3.) DQ/Countout finish which would have just left everyone pissed of (Yes, that's how Hogan's WM8 match ended anyway, but it would have been worse with Flair).

 

The scandal may not have been the factor in why it didn't happen, but it didn't help.

[cabbageboy 0]

I've never regretted not getting Hogan/Flair at WM 8. It's hard to argue this when Macho/Flair was a BETTER match.

 

I dunno if RVD/Awesome could have been that big of a draw but here's what really could have been in ECW: RVD vs. Taz. Yes, I know they did meet at N2R 99, but imagine that match if Taz still had the world title and hadn't already signed with the WWF.

 

The obvious stuff here is Austin/Goldberg. I can't believe they never did this while GB was there. As far as Lesnar vs. HHH goes....bleh. I could have cared less.

[Guest Damn You Helmsley]

Nobody gave a shit about Goldberg in the WWE. Maybe a few years before these 'dream matches' would have been big draws but I think with the possible exception of Austin nothing would have caused much of a fuss. That Goldberg and Lesnar laid such a steamy turd in the ring together probably makes this all seem very easy to say in retrospect.

[Aero 0]

I've never regretted not getting Hogan/Flair at WM 8. It's hard to argue this when Macho/Flair was a BETTER match.

 

That's probably true, but had you done Hogan-Flair, you could've had the official blowoff to Savage-Jake. The rest of the WM card could've basically stayed the same, except Taker would have been stuck with Sid.

[10 Pounds 0]

Starcade '97 should have been all Sting kicking Hogan's ass to put an end to the nWo.

 

I would have liked to see Bret vs Angle, but I don't know how good would Bret have been in the ring, even if the Kick of Doom didn't happenned. He would be in his mid-forties, so it's not like he would still be in his prime.

 

Personally, I don't see why Hogan vs whomever is considered to be a dream match. Unless it's Hogan against another 80's wrestler, the styles won't mix and the match would suck. Just think of the Hogan vs Angle match of last year leading to Summerslam, Hogan did a sorry-ass boot to the chest and Angle laid down on the ring for like a minute. Rock is an exception, but then again, he's a exceptional performer and could have a match with practically anybody.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

It's not fair to say no-one gave a shit about Goldberg in WWE. The elimination chamber (sans the finish) was completely electric, it showed that he could still win the fans over. The fans shit on the Brock match because they knew both were leaving.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Austin Vs. Hogan should have happened at Wrestlemania XVIII, there was no excuse for it not to happen.

 

I can't believe I forgot about Lesnar Vs. Helmsley, I definitely wanted to see it that. Imagine if that had been the Wrestlemania 21 main event instead. I know it would have been a better match than the one we got with Batista.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Re: Flair vs. Hogan at WM VIII: The plan was always for Hogan vs. Sid. Had been for almost a year.

 

Goldberg could have done great business against Rock, Hunter, Angle, Undertaker and a few others if he was handled correctly. The big money would have been against Austin and, to a slightly lesser degree, Lesnar, with the correct build.

[Guest wildpegasus]

They were seriously thinking of doing Flair vs Hogan there for awhile but things got screwed up. I know they wanted to.

 

I mean, how could any wrestling fan not want Flair vs Hogan? You'd be insane not to book it.

[Hawk 34 0]

Money match is a different beast then dream match. Dream matches, is a subjective term. However, money matches are more concrete and require a different formula to even consider something to be a “money match”.

 

You have the obvious possibilities such as Goldberg Vs Austin/Rock/Undertaker/HHH with proper buildups as opposed to what Goldberg was actually given in regards to HHH and Rock.

 

Here’s some additional Money Matches that I don’t believe were mentioned just yet.

 

Bret Hart Vs Hulk Hogan

-This could have been done in two different circumstances and each time could have gained something significant.

 

Starting in 1993, the obvious baby face of the past vs. baby face of the present was starring in the face of WWF and it obviously never occurred and this has always been argued and subsequently denied/confirmed by various people but we all know the simple facts, Hogan didn’t want to put Hart over.

 

Hogan’s popularity had dramatically declined in the early 1990’s and Bret was soaring but not to Hogan’s seemingly unreachable heights but a steady force as a top shelf baby face to lead that promotion.

 

Face Vs Face clashes are hard to pull off and very few actually succeed properly. In 1993, it might have been a reach but it was certainly worth a shot, as opposed to a unnecessary Yokozuna/Hogan program.

 

When would have it worked best? 1998. Coming off the infamous and well publicized Montreal Screw-job, Bret was heading to WCW as Hogan was wrapping up one of the most significant and money making storylines in wrestling history (Sting). Instead of being the guest referee for a idiotic match like Larry Z Vs Bischoff…

 

The timing was perfect, properly done with Hogan putting over Sting (cleanly) despite throwing everything at him. Bret should have been hyped to be making his in-ring debut (as well as first live appearance) at Starrcade (just to really add fire to already huge card this was shaping up to be). That night, Hart fights off N.W.O at the ramp to prevent interference and Sting wins.

 

Bret should have gone over a upper-mid card heel earlier that night (possibly Jarrett, Henning, Bagwell).

 

The slowly burn to a Hart Vs Hogan showdown at Great American Bash. At this point, the N.W.O is falling apart at the seams as no one can stop Sting’s path of rage.

 

With six months of great build up and good hype…Hogan Vs Hart could have been a big time PPV draw.

 

Instead politics reigned and we just received utter stupidity and witnessed Hart’s career get flushed by silly cliché antics.

 

Hollywood Hogan Vs Goldberg, was also a given and could have easily been another monster PPV draw. I would have had Hogan somehow get the title back from Sting after the Hart program…and build to Goldberg Vs Hogan at Halloween Havoc.

 

Goldberg Vs ANY WELL BUILT UP HEEL such as Scott Steiner, for instance to create the illusion that Goldberg’s streak was in danger and once that streak ended…the mega-rematch could have been another draw.

 

WCW really blew a lot of money and never thought about how to make it back because Goldberg was guaranteed $ for them and they never capitalized as they could’ve.

 

 

Low Ki Vs Samoa Joe II

-Guess what? ROH has money matches as well. This was one of them that seemed so inevitable but it never came to fruition and it probably never will (in the context of the ROH universe and what it would have meant there as opposed to in TNA or other promotions).

 

Low Ki, was and probably always will be a chronic headache for any promotion that books him. Is he worth it? Yes but if he wasn’t the caliber he is, he’d never get bookings.

 

The original match, which is actually over-rated but it was a important match because it introduced Joe to the ROH audience and at the time, the match seemed incredible. Anyways, Low Ki and Joe had a really good feud that was basically bubbling but never got to a full boil because Low Ki was always in and out of the promotion.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I always wanted to see a Face Razor Vs. Face Bret mid-90's PPV bout. With Razor going over to put him as a main eventer.

[JHawk 0]

Hulk Hogan vs. Bob Backlund (1984).

 

Vince actually wanted Backlund to turn on Hogan, dye his hair black, and feud with Hogan for a while, but Backlund didn't want his image tarnished. The feud could have done very well as a three-month MSG program with the proper build-up.

[Jericholic82 0]

Starcade '97 should have been all Sting kicking Hogan's ass to put an end to the nWo.

 

I would have liked to see Bret vs Angle, but I don't know how good would Bret have been in the ring, even if the Kick of Doom didn't happenned. He would be in his mid-forties, so it's not like he would still be in his prime.

 

Personally, I don't see why Hogan vs whomever is considered to be a dream match. Unless it's Hogan against another 80's wrestler, the styles won't mix and the match would suck. Just think of the Hogan vs Angle match of last year leading to Summerslam, Hogan did a sorry-ass boot to the chest and Angle laid down on the ring for like a minute. Rock is an exception, but then again, he's a exceptional performer and could have a match with practically anybody.

Angle faced Hogan in 02 at King Of The Ring, winning by submission with the anklelock, now I never saw the match so I have no idea how it was.

 

Hogan vs Flair at wm 8 was the natural money match for the show. Falir in his book claims that wa sthe plan as well. then there is talk of Sid being guaranteed the wm main event vs hogan before signing with WWF.

 

Now I guess we can't complain cuz Savage-Flair was a great match. but too bad the buildup seemed thrown together out of nowhere (though flair learning savage is his opponent so he starts mindgames wiht him and liz, wasnt too shabby)

 

 

As for other dream matches,

 

Shawn vs Sting, Sting vs Rock, DBS-Dynamite Kid in wwf (I know they feuded in other feds but I meant a bulldogs split and feud in wwf), Bret vs Sting (back in 92 maybe, their 98 match I hear was bad)

[Timmy8271 0]

Brock Lesner vs HBK

 

Hart vs Hogan

 

Raven vs RVD

 

Piper vs Raven

 

Piper vs Backlund

[World's Worst Man 0]

Misawa vs. Muto in 1993 or so would have been insane. Ditto for Misawa vs. Hashimoto in '96 or '97 (not quite Misawa's prime, but likely Hashimoto's). We're talking selling out the Tokyo Dome 10 times over for those matches.

[Enigma 0]

Sting vs. The Undertaker would have been huge and still would be huge today if Sting had maintained his foreboding, dark character from 1997.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I don't know how big of a money match it'd be but I know it'd draw quite a bit.

 

 

Jumbo Tsuruta vs Hulk Hogan in Japan. That was one of my dream matches.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Re: Flair vs. Hogan at WM VIII: The plan was always for Hogan vs. Sid. Had been for almost a year.

 

Are you sure? I mean I thought they changed plans around Rumble time. Otherwise, they wouldn't have done those all teases with Hogan / Flair (SummerSlam 91 segment with Heenan, Funeral Parlor, SSeries, TiT).

[Guest wildpegasus]

Man, I wish I had a better memory at times. Hogan vs Sid certainly could've been in the works for a year but from everything I've heard and read the WWF wanted Hogan vs Flair as the main but they just couldn't pull it off. Ideally, that was their first choice.

[Kismet 0]

I had looked this up before, and remembered reading the threads on it. So via the Wrestling Classics search engine and Dave Meltzer:

 

"The plan was always Hogan-Sid, dating back a year.

 

Business was very different then. House shows were advertised big. You didn't do 2-3 matches in every market on a house show and then the PPV.

 

I knew Hogan-Sid as the main event maybe 10 months out. When they did the TV announcement of Hogan-Flair, it was just an angle as Flair already knew he was facing Savage by then.

 

What people don't realize is that Hogan-Flair started off doing good business, but it had petered out by December, months before Mania. Vince was going to build to Hogan legdropping Flair at the house shows early 1992, but after a terrible house in Florida, Vince felt it had run its course. He changed all the shows to Hogan & Piper vs. Flair & Sid, and it was Hogan-Sid drawing the money. The only Hogan-Flair Mania hint was in September of 91, when they started their house show run, and Flair wanted to do 30:00 matches and Hogan wanted 15:00, he told Flair they needed to save the 30:00 match for Mania. But when crowds for the program dropped, and second time in our market they only did 5400 at the Cow Palace, and our market had it first, there was no Mania in their future. In hindsight people think it would have been a big deal, but it had already run its course months before Mania and WWE promoted the program ass backwards and Flair wasn't considered special by WWF fans.

 

I'm a friend of Flair and have never had any interest in paying to see Sid, but that is how it was then."

Meltzer 5-31-06

Different discussion, same topic:

 

"Vince had promised Sid the main event at Mania to get him out of a very lucrative WCW contract. Why WCW released him in the middle of a wrestling war just showed that they and Vince were playing under different rules as it never would have happened had the roles been reversed. Flair was under the impression, as was Hogan, that they would main event at Mania. The first Hogan-Flair match ever was in Dayton, OH as an unadvertised TV taping dark match a few days before Oakland, which was their second meeting, but billed as their first meeting. But the advertising of Flair vs. Hogan on TV for Mania was a work, as I'd been told Flair vs. Savage and Hogan vs. Sid about two weeks before the advertising came out. It was a Vince call because he thought Hogan vs. Sid would do more business. While the original Hogan-Flair matches such as Oakland drew very well, the gates fell pretty quickly for a number of reasons, the biggest being that they didn't promote it as a battle of champions and Flair as "something special" and the outsider facing Hogan was killed at Survivor Series. Flair as "just another" WWF wrestler facing Hogan was not a big drawing program by the time the decision was made for Mania".

Meltzer 01-04-2003 on Wrestling Classics again.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Thanks for that. I actually did read that before but I had half forgotten about it. Meltzer is awesome for stuff like that.

[Guest Damn You Helmsley]

It's not fair to say no-one gave a shit about Goldberg in WWE. The elimination chamber (sans the finish) was completely electric, it showed that he could still win the fans over. The fans shit on the Brock match because they knew both were leaving.

 

Perhaps a tad harsh on my part I still think but the ability of Goldberg to draw was at best questionable. The buyrates and the ratings didn't exactly shoot up. And I didn't say the fans shit on the Brock match, I said they did the shit, right there in the ring. They got the reaction the match deserved. A few years before I'm sure it would have been different as the company was in better shape and Goldberg was more 'relevant'. But by the time he arrived that ship had sailed.

[Jericholic82 0]

I had looked this up before, and remembered reading the threads on it. So via the Wrestling Classics search engine and Dave Meltzer:

 

"The plan was always Hogan-Sid, dating back a year.

 

Business was very different then. House shows were advertised big. You didn't do 2-3 matches in every market on a house show and then the PPV.

 

I knew Hogan-Sid as the main event maybe 10 months out. When they did the TV announcement of Hogan-Flair, it was just an angle as Flair already knew he was facing Savage by then.

 

What people don't realize is that Hogan-Flair started off doing good business, but it had petered out by December, months before Mania. Vince was going to build to Hogan legdropping Flair at the house shows early 1992, but after a terrible house in Florida, Vince felt it had run its course. He changed all the shows to Hogan & Piper vs. Flair & Sid, and it was Hogan-Sid drawing the money. The only Hogan-Flair Mania hint was in September of 91, when they started their house show run, and Flair wanted to do 30:00 matches and Hogan wanted 15:00, he told Flair they needed to save the 30:00 match for Mania. But when crowds for the program dropped, and second time in our market they only did 5400 at the Cow Palace, and our market had it first, there was no Mania in their future. In hindsight people think it would have been a big deal, but it had already run its course months before Mania and WWE promoted the program ass backwards and Flair wasn't considered special by WWF fans.

 

I'm a friend of Flair and have never had any interest in paying to see Sid, but that is how it was then."

Meltzer 5-31-06

Different discussion, same topic:

 

"Vince had promised Sid the main event at Mania to get him out of a very lucrative WCW contract. Why WCW released him in the middle of a wrestling war just showed that they and Vince were playing under different rules as it never would have happened had the roles been reversed. Flair was under the impression, as was Hogan, that they would main event at Mania. The first Hogan-Flair match ever was in Dayton, OH as an unadvertised TV taping dark match a few days before Oakland, which was their second meeting, but billed as their first meeting. But the advertising of Flair vs. Hogan on TV for Mania was a work, as I'd been told Flair vs. Savage and Hogan vs. Sid about two weeks before the advertising came out. It was a Vince call because he thought Hogan vs. Sid would do more business. While the original Hogan-Flair matches such as Oakland drew very well, the gates fell pretty quickly for a number of reasons, the biggest being that they didn't promote it as a battle of champions and Flair as "something special" and the outsider facing Hogan was killed at Survivor Series. Flair as "just another" WWF wrestler facing Hogan was not a big drawing program by the time the decision was made for Mania".

Meltzer 01-04-2003 on Wrestling Classics again.

wow that interesting. Actually my first wwf live event was at MSG in November 1991, just days after Survivor Series (but before Tuesday In Texas so Taker was champ-though he did not wrestle on this card)in which Hogan did face Flair one on one. I don't remember much about the match other than Flair appearing to have won with the use of brass knux, but the ref reversed the decision somehow. my second live show at msg was in march 92 and the main event was Flair and Sid vs Hogan and Piper.