UFC News and notes from WON - 7/17

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Dave called UFC 61 horrible.

 

Said there were two questions coming out of the PPV: How much damage did it do, and what is going on with UFC and PRIDE? Said neither question could easily be answered yet.

 

Said its personalities and grudge matches that draw, that Ortiz vs. Shamrock was the greatest combination of both, as well as television build up, in US MMA history.

 

Said it was clear UFC knew the fight could never live up to the hype, which is why it was put in the middle.

 

UFC told the AP it expects UFC 61 to do above 500,000.

 

Said that a lot of people who never ordered a UFC PPV got this one, and that it’ll be a long time before they order another one.

 

Says UFC have had two previous shows that have been so bad as to significantly hurt repeat business; UFC IX, with Shamrock vs. Severn II (which Dave said that, as bad as people talk about the matches on this show, nothing matches Shamrock vs. Severn II), and UFC 33 in September 2001 (this is the one where all the fights went the distance and a lot of companies carrying the show went off the air before the end).

 

Says the long-term effects of this show will be “nothing”, but that short-term it will gave an effect for a few months.

 

Spoke of last year when, after UFC built to what was its biggest ratings match ever, Chris Leben vs. Josh Koscheck, and they had a bad match, that people were claiming that UFC had shot itself in the foot and that people would see it as boring. Said that while ratings decreased the following week, it was only back down to the normal levels it had been doing anyway, and that in the last year UFC’s PPV popularity increased tremendously.

 

Said Joe Stevenson vs. Yves Edwards was a good opener, and that the amount of blood spilt bordered on sickening. Said Frank Mir really should have beaten Dan Christison quickly and decisively, but that both men lost this one because nobody wants to see them fight again. Said the stoppage in Ortiz vs. Shamrock terrible. Said Burkman vs. Neer was a good match, but the crowd hadn’t recovered from Ortiz vs. Shamrock. Said the show needed a good main event to be saved, and that it’s a good sign of how well the heavyweight title match was pushed as Las Vegas crowds usually leave after the marquee match and few people left before the heavyweight title match. Said you would have expected an early knockout from Arlovsky vs. Sylvia, but instead the fight was like a five-round bad boxing sparring session.

 

Arlovsky blew out his knee and ankle in round two. He was hospitalized that night, was put in a cast, and will have had an MRI done this week.

 

Said that a lot people started leaving at the end of the third round, not understanding that title fights are five rounds, and that while most seemed to come back, people left in droves during the fourth round and many of those paid $750 for tickets.

 

Said that in round five, with the match there to be won (two judges at it 38-38 after round four), Arlovsky simply tried to survive and made no attempt to win.

 

After the fight, Arlovsky said that his injuries were why he never attempted a takedown, and that he was concerned that if he shot in and bent his knee to that degree it would lock up and he wouldn’t be able to continue.

 

Said he’s not sure what it says about Sylvia when he fought a guy on one leg for three-and-a-half rounds and was never aggressive in trying take him out.

 

Sylvia suffered a concussion from a punch and passed out in his hotel room later that night.

 

Called the people at Mandalay Bay UFC fans and not MMA fans, and Wanderlei Silva was virtually unknown to them.

 

Says the live fans were unhappy with the announcement, because they weren’t in the mood for hype for an upcoming show.

 

Says UFC has access to all the top Silva footage and we’ll see it used on specials and the like to build up to his fight against Liddell. Dave says it should be enough to do solid business.

 

Says Liddell vs. Silva will be a striking match and that Silva gas faced superior strikers than Liddell has.

 

“Silva destroyed Quinton Jackson twice, Jackson beat Liddell. Silva lost to Ortiz, but it was a takedown and hold UFC match in 2000, and under today’s rules, it would have been stood up multiple times, and it is most likely, but never for sure, that under today’s rules Silva would have won that match. Liddell knocked out Ortiz, but it was an Ortiz with a bad back who couldn’t take him down.”

 

But Dave also says that were different matches at different times in their careers.

 

Silva will be steroid for the first time in Nevada, and he won’t be able to use his stomps or soccer kicks.

 

Dave says that Liddell is, stylistically, a tough opponent for Silva. Calls Silva super aggressive, a hard hitter and has incredible stamina, but that he throws wild and can floored by someone who comes up the middle. Says Liddell doesn’t do that exactly, but that he is a great counter puncher, and that he is physically bigger.

 

Says that Silva has great recuperative powers, citing that Mark Hunt, who Dave says hits harder than Liddell, knocked him down but that Silva got up. Says Liddell hits hard and has a granite chin. Dave calls Liddell the better wrestler, but that neither man will want to take it there, unless Liddell is having a tough time. Says Liddell would at least have that option, but if Silva is having the hard time then it’ll be harder for him to get the takedown, but even if he does than Liddell will likely get right back up.

 

Liddell has shown that he can be outpunched, but hell take the shot, but all he needs is one good shot at the counter and he can get the KO. Silva has been tested by far superior strikers and hasn’t been KO’d in eight years.

 

They both have big fights coming up they could lose, and with Silva having one or two fights against bigger men coming up, if Silva has tough fights then it could work against him in November.

 

Dave says there are far more important things than who wins the fight, and he calls it a battle for the future of MMA. Dave says a year ago it wouldn’t have mattered, but with UFC growing so much and PRIDE being almost gone, the feeling in Japan is that this is a Hail Mary move from PRIDE to save the company.

 

“However, what if, on a UFC PPV show, that Silva beats Liddell?”

 

Dave says that would mean that everyone would now know Silva, but not necessarily PRIDE. Says it’ll also mean that every UFC fan will know that PRIDE exists and that its champion is really the top guy.

 

Dave talked about the risks being taken by this, in terms of what both have to lose and perceptions and says that this is one risk that UFC should not be taking, as the risks are too high. Dave called it the MMA equivalent of Muto vs. Takada I where New Japan had Muto beat Takada; “It wasn’t UWFI getting mainstream exposure it was UWFI’s last stand.”

 

Dave said that UFC would not book this match unless there was no way they couldn’t come out a winner, which Dave says tells you something about PRIDE and its future.

 

Dave says the entire situation is so sensitive that why the deal was made or anything about where it is going and that Dana White himself told Dave that he’d be able to talk about it at some point but he couldn’t talk about it now.

 

Gate figures aren’t official, but indications are it won’t break the current record set by Liddell vs. Couture III ($3,447,600). Dave was told to expect a gate of $3.2m to $3.4m.

 

The early PPV numbers are said to be strong.

 

Dave talked a lot about the stoppage in Ortiz vs. Shamrock, having watched it “over-and-over in super slow motion”.

 

“At the 1:11 mark, Ortiz threw a hard elbow that rocked Shamrock, stunning him for a second. That was the only significant blow of the fight. Ortiz threw a second elbow that didn’t appear to be damaging. Shamrock turned his head and was clearly still in control of his hands as he was moving them to defend, although they weren’t there yet when Ortiz threw three more fast shots. This entire situation took place in the space of four seconds, as the official timekeeper was late in clicking the watch, because the ref made the signal at 1:15. After Shamrock turned after elbow #2, elbow #2 connected with Shamrock’s neck or upper part of his shoulder. At worst, it grazed the lower part of his face on it’s way to the neck or shoulder. The last two elbows hit Shamrock on the shoulder near the clavicle. Ortiz complained of a chipped elbow after the match. Watching in live time as Ortiz threw the five elbows, my thought was that Shamrock was in trouble and he was about to lose, because it was so fast you thought every elbow was hurting him hard in the head, when it actually, really only the first one hurt him and the second one connected to the head. You had the feeling of impending doom because most people, even before the fight started, had the feeling of impending doom. I do believe the odds are good he wasn’t getting up and he very well could have been finished within the next five to ten seconds, because Shamrock, aside from the Frye fight, has never looked good fighting off his back, and on top is Ortiz’s domain. But fighters regularly recover from positions or beatings ten times worse. Forrest Griffin took dozens of harder elbows, and was bloodied beyond recognition, and came back and was nearly made into the source for stuff. I’m not saying Shamrock would have, but if, midway or late in the firs round, had they called Ortiz off Griffin as he was bleeding everywhere, it would have been foolish to say he was going to come back and win. Tim Sylvia was knocked down in the second Arlovsky fight with a punch that did far more damage than any of these blows, and he not only survived but reversed and won seconds later. Based on the first fight between the two and Sylvia’s track record on the ground, had it been stopped on the knockdown, logic would have told you it was only seconds away from Sylvia being in bad shape and it only saved him from a beating. But it didn’t turn out that way. Nobody would have thought, in either of those cases, at that moment, it was possible the fight was turning around. But in both cases, and hundreds of others like it, it happened. If you already “know” what is going to happen, you might as well not even have the fight play out. I believed going in that Shamrock was losing, and probably in round one. I believe he wasn’t going to escape that position and the match was going to be stopped very soon. I believed Griffin wasn’t going to last the first round, three minutes into their fight, and at that moment, thought he had no chance of wining. When Arlovsky dropped Sylvia in fight two, I believed it was over. The point being it doesn’t matter what you believe, you have to stop the fight based on what is happening, not on what you think is going to happen next. Shamrock himself was hurt far worse by Don Frye, or for that matter, far worse in the last fight with Ortiz. For those who say he couldn’t have escaped, maybe that’s true, but in the first Ortiz-Shamrock match, Shamrock was beaten on for far longer, and did escape from basically the same position. And for the fans, they had earlier in the show seen buckets of Yves Edwards blood pouring out of his forehead with no break in the action until the end of the round. In the Frye fight, after being knocked down hard, Shamrock recovered to break both of Frye’s ankles in losing a split decision. And while he got hammered by Ortiz in 2002, at no point in three rounds was he even close to being knocked out, and he took fare more and harder shots”.

 

Dave says he knows why the ref made the call, to protect Shamrock, and Dave thinks the idea that was had by people that Shamrock was going to get killed worked against him, because no other fighter would have been stopped in that position.

 

Fans did worse than boo, as one woman from the TV crew was injured by a beer bottle.

 

Says the fans were infuriated by Ortiz talking about a rematch, as they felt screwed and the last thing they wanted to hear was talk of a rematch right after.

 

Dave said he heard the stoppage defended, with Goldberg and Couture saying Shamrock wasn’t intelligently defending himself, but at no point was that the case;

 

“He turned his head in two seconds and while he did not block shots two through five with his hands, the arms did not go limp and he was moving them trying to get them in position to defend. He moved his head out of danger in less than two seconds after the stunning blow, which was clear defensive move. He was still in a bad position and it’s very possible the end could have been a few seconds away had Dean not intervened”.

 

The pay sheets show Ortiz got $200,000 for the win and Shamrock got $100,000 for the loss. Both men are also getting a percentage of the PPV.

 

Says UFC are in bind, because with Ortiz getting two wins over Shamrock, and the second one being so quick, a third match, especially when nobody thinks Shamrock has a chance, would be controversial. Putting it on PPV could make people feel leery, because it would be charging for a one-sided fight.

 

Dave is torn, because he doesn’t want to see Shamrock get destroyed again, but at the same time “he was screwed”. He also said the fans were screwed.

 

“As much as people in the know recognized what this fight was, they are a tiny percentage of the people who support the organization. To the masses, they are two well-known superstars whose name value is incredibly high. Even Ortiz was screwed out of the decisive win that he probably deserves to end all of this. After six years, it left a terribly bitter aftertaste that the longest and greatest feud in UFC history would end in such a manner.”

 

Dave talks about the Spike shows UFC has until the end of the year, and how the have no marquee match they could put on that people would care even one-tenth as much about. He suggests putting Ortiz vs. Shamrock III on the November show, which will be the Ultimate Fighter 4 finale. Says Ortiz is put in the best position if you’re the promoter, as he needs at least one win before his title fight in February against whomever the champion is. Another match against Forest Griffin would be a better fight, and make more money, but Griffin has a strong chance of winning, especially as a lot of people thought he won the first fight, and Ortiz title fight is the big money fight you don’t want spoiled.

 

There is a big cost involved, as Spike would be spending more money on this fight than any other. If it costs so much more than a normal fight, then “chalk it up to the cost of doing such great business on this show and doing a favor for the near record paying audience”.

 

Dave also calls it an investment in the future, because there will be a lot of first-time viewers who’ll be drawn in if the fight was put on free television, and they’ll see two fights, the UF 4 finals, here the winners will be getting PPV title fights very soon after. If either Ortiz or Shamrock want the kind of payday they got from UFC 61 then it would become too much financially. Dave can’t see doing the third match on PPV, as it would only make a bad situation worse.

 

Dave can’t see Shamrock turning it down, because from where he is he has nothing left to lose after the 78 second loss, and Ortiz would be getting $200,000 for far less risk than any other fight he could have for the rest of the year. The fighters might not se things the same way. Dave has talked about this with people inside UFC, but the feeling he got from people was not positive towards the idea, and was given the impression that it couldn’t financially be done for free TV.

 

Says Dana White could announce that because so many were unhappy over the stoppage, that they’re giving them a PPV rematch on free television. Dave said it would a great goodwill gesture, and would soothe over the people who swore off of UFC after what happened.

 

However, Dave says that a rematch does have a lot of negativity. Firstly, it “backstabs Herb Dean’s decision”. In addition, Dave says that UFC’s enemies will use this match as fodder, with many of them using the end result of the match as reasoning that it should never have taken place it all, which Dave says ignores the record level public interest in the fight.

 

Says there are two key questions that need to be answered that aren’t so easy to answer; Do we really want to see Ken Shamrock fight again? And, after all he’s done to draw and build for this business, for over a decade, does he at least deserve the chance to end his career with the same chance that any other name fighter would have had? That is the opportunity to at least have the chance to escape from a bad position.

 

Ortiz was the crowd favorite going into the fight, but was booed heavily in his post0-fight interview, especially when he talked of doing a rematch.

 

Dave talked about how a lot of people were laughing about Ortiz kicking up a fuss at the weigh-in over Shamrock, in his eyes, not making weight, when Ortiz was the one who turned out not to make the weight at first.

 

Drew Fickett vs. Kurt Pellegrino: Fickett got $12,000 for the win and Pellegrino got $2,00 for the loss.

Cheick Kongo vs. Gilbert Aldana: Kongo got $6,000 for the win and Aldana got $2,000 for the loss.

Jeff Monson vs. Anthony Perosh: Monson got $20,000 for the win and Perosh got $3,000 for the loss. Dave says there is a good chance Monson got the $5,000 bonus for the best knockout.

Hermes Franca vs. Joe Jordan: Franca got $8,000 for the win and Jordan got $4,000 for the loss. Dave says Franca had to have gotten the $5,000 bonus for the best submission.

Joe Stevenson vs. Yves Edwards: Steven got $24,000 for the win and Edwards got $8,000 for the match. Dave said it’s a good bet that both men got the $5,000 each bonus for having the best fight.

Frank Mir vs. Dan Christison: Mir got $56,000 for the win and Christison got $5,000 for the loss.

Josh Burkman vs. Josh Neer: Burkman got $10,000 for the win and Neer got $6,000 for the loss.

Sylvia vs. Arlovsky: Sylvia got $120,00 for the loss and Arlovsky got $90,000 for the loss.

 

Other News

 

HBO says don’t expect a deal with UFC anytime soon.

 

There will very likely be a Spike TV special in September that will come from the Hard Rock café in Hollywood, FL. The special in Texas, in either October or November, is right now being talked about has taking place in a military base.

 

Kenny Florian pulled out of his 8/26 match against Sean Sherk, citing the need to train more for the fight.

 

Ken Shamrock did an interview with Newsday, and when asked about TUF 3, he said he stopped watching three episodes in. He said the show w as entertaining but it didn’t portray him in the best possible light.

 

Dana White met recently with Phil Baroni, who will be returning on the November PPV. Baroni coming back is a different deal than Silva coming in, as White didn’t go through PRIDE for Baroni, and PRIDE are not happy about Baroni making the deal. They are currently working on an opponent for Baroni.

 

The PRIDE website said that Kazuyuki Fujita would be debuting on the November PPV too, but Dana White told Dave that is not true.

 

Jeremy Lappen, the promoter of the WFA PPV, was kicked out of the UFC PPV. Lappen made a big deal about it after the fact, and claimed that it was because of WFA that UFC was working with PRIDE. He also claimed that Joe Silva was calling all the WFA fighters trying to get them to come to UFC.

 

Undertaker was at the PPV, but never acknowledged. Dwayne Johnson was meant to be there, but because of his injury was unable to attend.

 

Kevin Kay, GM of Spike, says UFC is their highest rated show and their biggest revenue generator.

 

Dana White has said that he believes UFC will hit the 1 million buys mark “very soon”.

 

When a UK reported told Michael Bisping that Dana White ha called him UFC’s answer to Ricky Hatton, Bisping said, “Great! Does that mean I’ll be getting $4m a fight then?”

[starvenger 0]

Ken Shamrock did an interview with Newsday, and when asked about TUF 3, he said he stopped watching three episodes in. He said the show w as entertaining but it didn’t portray him in the best possible light.

And the first three episodes were probably the most positive ones. Still, I wonder how you can positively spin not showing up for your team's training session?

 

When a UK reported told Michael Bisping that Dana White ha called him UFC’s answer to Ricky Hatton, Bisping said, “Great! Does that mean I’ll be getting $4m a fight then?”

Gotta love that Brit humour...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

If you really wanna hear Ken let out his "feelings" listen to the latest beatdown show on Sherdog. He really lets out how he feels.

[Damaramu 0]

I thought that interview was going to be good. Instead Ken yelled a bunch and kept repeating himself......wait it was Ken Shamrock......

 

My gf thinks he has the respect problem because he's not very well endowed.

 

The way she put it was "Randy is always calm and collected and good at everything he does. That's because he's got a giant schlong. Ken however has nothing going on down there so he's always losing his temper and demanding that everyone respects him."

[Lei Tong 0]

Silva lost to Ortiz, but it was a takedown and hold UFC match in 2000, and under today’s rules, it would have been stood up multiple times, and it is most likely, but never for sure, that under today’s rules Silva would have won that match.

 

The only thing that would've happened with more stand-ups that night would be more takedowns.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I thought that interview was going to be good. Instead Ken yelled a bunch and kept repeating himself......wait it was Ken Shamrock......

 

My gf thinks he has the respect problem because he's not very well endowed.

 

The way she put it was "Randy is always calm and collected and good at everything he does. That's because he's got a giant schlong. Ken however has nothing going on down there so he's always losing his temper and demanding that everyone respects him."

 

Even though you claim your girlfriend said it, big no homo to this post.

[starvenger 0]

My gf thinks he has the respect problem because he's not very well endowed.

I seem to remember a long time ago ScoopThis.Net saying that he had great stamina. And they'd NEVER lie...

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I find it funny, Meltzer is so sure that Silva will lose to Liddell...

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I'm not counting Chuck out...but I doubt he's gonna beat Silva.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I think the fight is 50/50...

 

As a boxer, I see flaws big time in Chuck's stand up that Silva and expolit. Chuck keeps his hands WAY too low... and most of his punches are very lopping.

[Damaramu 0]

Ah so as a boxer because you know these weaknesses.......you could win a boxing match with Chuck?

Chuck's got some of the best stand up in the game. If I'm a Tito hater then you're a mega Chuck hater.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Ah so as a boxer because you know these weaknesses.......you could win a boxing match with Chuck?

Chuck's got some of the best stand up in the game. If I'm a Tito hater then you're a mega Chuck hater.

 

I know I could easily outbox Chuck if he has the same stance he has for MMA, in boxing. I have very good head movement and his looping punches wouldn't connect. But if he landed anything, I would be KO'd no question because he is a much bigger and stronger man then me.

 

MMA standards he has great stand-up, but should he enter boxing, any journeyman or anyone with decent skills would knock him out, most likely.

 

And I don't hate Chuck at all, I have nothing against him, I respect him alot. There's nothing to hate about him, he seems like a stand up guy in interviews(Even though a buddy of mine who is an MMA fighter says he's cocky in real life). He has one of the best MMA career's possibly of all time. If I was hater, I would say he would stand no chance with Silva, but I said the fight is 50/50 to me.

[Guest Brian]

Meltzer feels the same way I've felt forever, that Chuck matches up really well against Silva. Silva's a wild guy who can get stunned by a punch. He doesn't have the crisp boxing of Rampage that was able to counter Liddell easily with straight punches to his looping shots, and Chuck relatively cleaned that up lately with straighter shots, plus better footwork. Plus the rules of the cage and this fight favors Chuck.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

If Chuck were to enter boxing he wouldn't have that stance. He adjusts for MMA and keeps his hands low because it helps him with his takedown defence. I'm sure I could shoot in on Matt Hughes if he wrestled standing straight up like he does in a freestyle wrestling match. But this isn't boxing or wrestling, this is fighting.

 

Roy Jones Jr. used to have a pretty wide open stance when he boxed too, as well as keeping his hands low. I doubt you could outbox him.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Going by what was said previously, there seems to be lots of praise for guys with legit fighting backgrounds, and it is automatically assumed that those skills make them better than someone else in MMA. There are too many instances of this not being true, and so many times have pro boxers been knocked out, BJJ Blackbelts been tapped out, and world class amateur wrestlers been unable to land a takedown or have gotten taken down themselves. People don't realize that there are so many extraneous factors that perhaps, since Chuck or Wanderlei have been training for MMA for all those years, that that might be the reason why they didn't bother with a single art combat sport.

 

Don Frye was a pro boxer for crying out loud. Royce Alger was a few points away from being the freestyle world champion in wrestling and his MMA career is known for being one of the biggest disappointments. Roberto Traven was tapped out by Mir in a minute, a guy who had trouble with British Brawler Ian Freeman.

 

Vitor Belfort was a pro boxer and Chuck knocked him on his ass a couple of times. Don Frye the pro boxer was getting pwned by a friggin street fighter in Tank Abbott. Who has had better wrestling in MMA, Alger or Tito Ortiz, the Junior College wannabe? Matt Hughes is a wrestler with some submission training who pwned the BJJ 4th degree blackbelt on the ground.

 

EHME, how many amateur boxing matches have you had? You're not pro, but you think you're gonna outbox a guy whose prepared his hands and chin for guys much tougher than you for seven years, as well as having an extensive kickboxing resume before that? Pshh. Dude, I know you like to brag about your ass kicking skills on the internet CronoT styles, but you're in over your head if you think looking good in the practice gym would mean you could outbox someone with as much experience as The Iceman.

 

EDIT: I should probably expand this into an article, but really, who reads the front page?

[AboveAverage484 0]

Ah so as a boxer because you know these weaknesses.......you could win a boxing match with Chuck?

Chuck's got some of the best stand up in the game. If I'm a Tito hater then you're a mega Chuck hater.

 

I know I could easily outbox Chuck if he has the same stance he has for MMA, in boxing. I have very good head movement and his looping punches wouldn't connect. But if he landed anything, I would be KO'd no question because he is a much bigger and stronger man then me.

 

MMA standards he has great stand-up, but should he enter boxing, any journeyman or anyone with decent skills would knock him out, most likely.

 

And I don't hate Chuck at all, I have nothing against him, I respect him alot. There's nothing to hate about him, he seems like a stand up guy in interviews(Even though a buddy of mine who is an MMA fighter says he's cocky in real life). He has one of the best MMA career's possibly of all time. If I was hater, I would say he would stand no chance with Silva, but I said the fight is 50/50 to me.

 

Bullshit, he's been in the ring in front of thousands of people 20+ times against opponents that are a thousand times better than the 40 year old washed up boxers you spar against. I don't reckon he'd have any trouble outboxing you and then knocking your block off.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Roy Jones Jr. used to have a pretty wide open stance when he boxed too, as well as keeping his hands low. I doubt you could outbox him.

 

Don't ever compare Chuck Liddell to Roy Jones Jr... Roy Jones Jr has the phyiscally grifts to allow him to keep his hands that low, Liddell doesn't have a quarter the speed Roy Jones in his prime did. Add into the fact that Roy Jones never faced a great boxer in his prime.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Going by what was said previously, there seems to be lots of praise for guys with legit fighting backgrounds, and it is automatically assumed that those skills make them better than someone else in MMA. There are too many instances of this not being true, and so many times have pro boxers been knocked out, BJJ Blackbelts been tapped out, and world class amateur wrestlers been unable to land a takedown or have gotten taken down themselves. People don't realize that there are so many extraneous factors that perhaps, since Chuck or Wanderlei have been training for MMA for all those years, that that might be the reason why they didn't bother with a single art combat sport.

 

Don Frye was a pro boxer for crying out loud. Royce Alger was a few points away from being the freestyle world champion in wrestling and his MMA career is known for being one of the biggest disappointments. Roberto Traven was tapped out by Mir in a minute, a guy who had trouble with British Brawler Ian Freeman.

 

Vitor Belfort was a pro boxer and Chuck knocked him on his ass a couple of times. Don Frye the pro boxer was getting pwned by a friggin street fighter in Tank Abbott. Who has had better wrestling in MMA, Alger or Tito Ortiz, the Junior College wannabe? Matt Hughes is a wrestler with some submission training who pwned the BJJ 4th degree blackbelt on the ground.

 

EHME, how many amateur boxing matches have you had? You're not pro, but you think you're gonna outbox a guy whose prepared his hands and chin for guys much tougher than you for seven years, as well as having an extensive kickboxing resume before that? Pshh. Dude, I know you like to brag about your ass kicking skills on the internet CronoT styles, but you're in over your head if you think looking good in the practice gym would mean you could outbox someone with as much experience as The Iceman.

 

EDIT: I should probably expand this into an article, but really, who reads the front page?

 

I've had 86 amatuer fights... and have won provinical tournaments, and maybe a member of the 2008 Olympic Canadian Amatuer team, should I chose to continue to box(Which is unlikely now, because I'm going to College in the fall for a journalism major).

 

But either way, me boxing Chuck Liddell is a pointless subject, because I fight at 154, and Chuck is 205. If Chuck were to fight Vitor Belfort in a boxing match, Belfort would win. I feel if I beefed up to Heavyweight, and Chuck decided to box me under amatuer rules, I would outbox him very easily. He's a Kickboxer and MMA, doesn't mean he'll rip shit in boxing. Have you seen him punch? Most his punches are very lopping. I'm not knocking on his standup, because MMA standards, it's very good, but if Chuck entered boxing, he would get his head knocked off by any decent HW or Cruiserweight with skills.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Ah so as a boxer because you know these weaknesses.......you could win a boxing match with Chuck?

Chuck's got some of the best stand up in the game. If I'm a Tito hater then you're a mega Chuck hater.

 

I know I could easily outbox Chuck if he has the same stance he has for MMA, in boxing. I have very good head movement and his looping punches wouldn't connect. But if he landed anything, I would be KO'd no question because he is a much bigger and stronger man then me.

 

MMA standards he has great stand-up, but should he enter boxing, any journeyman or anyone with decent skills would knock him out, most likely.

 

And I don't hate Chuck at all, I have nothing against him, I respect him alot. There's nothing to hate about him, he seems like a stand up guy in interviews(Even though a buddy of mine who is an MMA fighter says he's cocky in real life). He has one of the best MMA career's possibly of all time. If I was hater, I would say he would stand no chance with Silva, but I said the fight is 50/50 to me.

 

Bullshit, he's been in the ring in front of thousands of people 20+ times against opponents that are a thousand times better than the 40 year old washed up boxers you spar against. I don't reckon he'd have any trouble outboxing you and then knocking your block off.

 

I don't spar with 40+ year old washed up boxers.. I spar with some of the best amauter boxers in my province. I've sparred with Dale Brown(Who is a top Cruiserweight contender for many years). But whatever, discussing this is useless because none of you know me. I don't really care.

[AboveAverage484 0]

You weight 154? Go spar Gomi or Joachim Hansen. You've got more boxing experience than them so I assume you could take them.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

 

Roy Jones Jr. used to have a pretty wide open stance when he boxed too, as well as keeping his hands low. I doubt you could outbox him.

 

Don't ever compare Chuck Liddell to Roy Jones Jr... Roy Jones Jr has the phyiscally grifts to allow him to keep his hands that low, Liddell doesn't have a quarter the speed Roy Jones in his prime did. Add into the fact that Roy Jones never faced a great boxer in his prime.

 

My point was that low hands and the like doesn't necessarily mean bad boxing, although Roy Jones' insane hand speed did make up for it.

 

But you're right, this is pointless. You shouldn't bring up your personal skills though because like you said it is pointless.

 

But you're saying his boxing is bad which is why he would have problems with Silva. My point is, just because someone has great cred in another combat sport, doesn't mean it equates to MMA. Who cares if Vitor would beat him in a boxing match? If he gets his ass knocked down in the fight, then clearly his hands aren't as good overall as Chuck's, regardless of how much better a boxer he is in a boxing ring. If anything, Chuck beating him in the standup in a real fight proves my point of how a great background doesn't necessarily imply it will work better in a real fight. Vitor has the better boxing credentials and is more technical in that sense. Guess what happened when they fought a fight almost entirely on the feet? Chuck beat him convincingly.

 

Cael Sanderson would own Chuck in wrestling. Put Cael in a fight with him in MMA. Chuck isn't as good an amateur wrestler, but for some reason I don't think Cael would take him down once. Do you see what I'm trying to say here?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

 

Roy Jones Jr. used to have a pretty wide open stance when he boxed too, as well as keeping his hands low. I doubt you could outbox him.

 

Don't ever compare Chuck Liddell to Roy Jones Jr... Roy Jones Jr has the phyiscally grifts to allow him to keep his hands that low, Liddell doesn't have a quarter the speed Roy Jones in his prime did. Add into the fact that Roy Jones never faced a great boxer in his prime.

 

My point was that low hands and the like doesn't necessarily mean bad boxing, although Roy Jones' insane hand speed did make up for it.

 

But you're right, this is pointless. You shouldn't bring up your personal skills though because like you said it is pointless.

 

But you're saying his boxing is bad which is why he would have problems with Silva. My point is, just because someone has great cred in another combat sport, doesn't mean it equates to MMA. Who cares if Vitor would beat him in a boxing match? If he gets his ass knocked down in the fight, then clearly his hands aren't as good overall as Chuck's, regardless of how much better a boxer he is in a boxing ring. If anything, Chuck beating him in the standup in a real fight proves my point of how a great background doesn't necessarily imply it will work better in a real fight. Vitor has the better boxing credentials and is more technical in that sense. Guess what happened when they fought a fight almost entirely on the feet? Chuck beat him convincingly.

 

Cael Sanderson would own Chuck in wrestling. Put Cael in a fight with him in MMA. Chuck isn't as good an amateur wrestler, but for some reason I don't think Cael would take him down once. Do you see what I'm trying to say here?

 

Yeah I understand what your saying, that's the point I was trying to make.

 

Roy Jones was never a techincally great boxer, he just relyed on his physical gifts, which is the main reason why I think if him or Hopkins ever fought in their primes, Hopkins would win.

 

And no I didn't say his boxing is the reason why he would have problems with Silva, it's more of him keeping his hands too low. Liddell has a good chin, but in his prime, he hasen't faced a great striker like Silva. But like I said, I don't know who will win, which makes me pump up to see it.

[razazteca 0]

The special in Texas, in either October or November, is right now being talked about has taking place in a military base.

What city?

[Guest DRH 502]

I used to believe that Chuck Liddell could never be knocked out...especially after the beating that Jackson laid on him but those Chute Box dudes are on a whole other level of striking. Not taking anything away from Chuck though, all he needs is that left hook and Silva will go to sleep. What boggles my mind is watching that Silva/Belfort fight from all those years ago and how easily Belfort smoked his ass...my how times have changed.

[Lei Tong 0]

Chute Boxe is the ITF on coke and 'roids, and we all know that Kempo > Taekwondo.

[Guest DRH 502]

Doesn't Kempo encourage thumbs to the eye??

 

And thats not a knock on Chuck, that is an honest question...

[Lei Tong 0]

I spent 8 years studying Kempo, and I can honestly tell that I can't remember for the life of me.

[Guest DRH 502]

I'm just asking because I remember reading an interview with Quinton Jackson and he mentioned it when he was talking about fighting Chuck in a potential rematch not too long ago...

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Chute Boxe is the ITF on coke and 'roids, and we all know that Kempo > Taekwondo.

 

Please elaberate....

[starvenger 0]

Doesn't Kempo encourage thumbs to the eye??

 

And thats not a knock on Chuck, that is an honest question...

Maybe that's only if it's a woman studying self defence. Although a knee to the groin or a stomp on the kneecap would be a better move there...