Killer of Jonbenet Ramsy arrested

[vivalaultra 0]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, because I haven't really read up on this case in a few years, but weren't there very few to no signs of breaking and entering in the house? And then there's the older brother who was on the 911 tape who was "sleeping", and there's the ransom note that was 99.9% proven to be written by the mother. Maybe it's just the media conjecture, but there seems to be alot that points to the parents at least having some knowledge of certain events/details. If I'm remembering any of that wrong or have any of the details wrong, I retract my statement about the parents being complicit, I just remember them being awfully shady. Not O.J. shady, but still pretty shady.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

you're remembering correclty, its just that a lot of that information was since shown to be wrong. The ransom note was actually something like 5% matched to the mother. Initially they reported that there were no signs of entry., and the media ran with it... later it was found that there was plenty, involving all the stuff i mentioned earlier.

the grand jury even condemned the running of that investigation. it was clear the police before looking at any evidence decided the parents did it.

 

i'm not saying they are absolutely not involved or anything but the physical evidence, window and surroundings, briefcase, boot and shoe prints that dont belong to the Ramseys, DNA evidence, all points to inturders.

the ONLY thing to dispute all this physical evidence, is the web, which was found that that particular spider makes those webs in a matter of hours.

 

 

as it regards Karr, i have to admit, it looks a lot shakier now. We'll see. but i absolutely believe based on PHYSICAL evidence that there was an intruder (regardless of if its karr or not), most likely 2 based on the prints, and that the Ramseys didn't actually do the physical killing.

[2GOLD 0]

you're remembering correclty, its just that a lot of that information was since shown to be wrong. The ransom note was actually something like 5% matched to the mother. Initially they reported that there were no signs of entry., and the media ran with it... later it was found that there was plenty, involving all the stuff i mentioned earlier.

the grand jury even condemned the running of that investigation. it was clear the police before looking at any evidence decided the parents did it.

 

i'm not saying they are absolutely not involved or anything but the physical evidence, window and surroundings, briefcase, boot and shoe prints that dont belong to the Ramseys, DNA evidence, all points to inturders.

the ONLY thing to dispute all this physical evidence, is the web, which was found that that particular spider makes those webs in a matter of hours.

 

 

as it regards Karr, i have to admit, it looks a lot shakier now. We'll see. but i absolutely believe based on PHYSICAL evidence that there was an intruder (regardless of if its karr or not), most likely 2 based on the prints, and that the Ramseys didn't actually do the physical killing.

 

Or they broke into their own house to make it look like an intruder.

Personally, I think this guy and they are innocent til proven guilty but "two intruders" does make it a little more interesting for a lazy reporter with too much time on his hands.

 

Who knows? This might just be one of those cases that will circle the drain and be lost forever. But seriously, until the guy goes to trial or something, how exactly is he already the killer? He's suspected of the murder, but that's it. The guy hasn't received killer labeling yet but some of the media sites have been quick to slap him as "GUILTY! FINALLY OVER!"

 

I don't know, I'll wait for the trial or at least a month to see if it all implodes..which is where it looks like the arrest is heading.

[NoCalMike 0]

This guy is delusional, I am banking on this being a false confession by some whackjob who probably followed the case and "fell in love" with Jon Benet Ramsay.

[snuffbox 0]

Did Jonbenet have drugs in her system, metr0man?

[Guest the undeserving]

.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were no traces of drugs in her system, but I could be wrong.

[TheShooter 0]

Just a few things...

 

There was evidence of an intruder, as has been pointed out, but there were also things pointing to the possibility of the intrusion via the window being staged. The spiderwebs, for one, and also I understand the shelf or bookcase the guy would have had to step onto upon gaining entry was populated by lots of little figurines that were improbably undisturbed. It would have been impossible to step onto that bookcase without knocking something over. He would have had to take the time to put the things back in place if he did knock them over, which makes zero sense.

 

Thanks to whoever pointed out the brother being heard in the background of the 911 call. The Ramseys clearly stated that he was asleep the entire time, which turned out to be a complete lie. Why did they feel the need to lie about that?

 

And let's not forget about the ransom note asking for $118,000, the exact amount of Mr. Ramsey's bonus that year. If this dude acted alone that means he wrote the ransom note. You can't just explain that away as "coincidence." To play devil's advocate though, it sounds like this guy was obsessed with the Ramsey family and had done a lot of research for a possible book he was going to write about child murders. I guess it's possible that in his research he was somehow able to glean some personal knowledge about Mr. Ramsey, namely how much his bonus was.

 

To the poster who said that parents would have no reason to kill their daughter since she was their "meal ticket"... not true. The family was wealthy because of John Ramsey's software business. They were hardly in a position of needing to whore their daughter out to beauty contests for extra scratch.

 

I'm still on the fence on this one. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy turned out to be a total nutjob who was so consumed by the the case that the only logical next step was was to put himself at the center of his very own obsession.

[vivalaultra 0]

And let's not forget about the ransom note asking for $118,000, the exact amount of Mr. Ramsey's bonus that year. If this dude acted alone that means he wrote the ransom note. You can't just explain that away as "coincidence." To play devil's advocate though, it sounds like this guy was obsessed with the Ramsey family and had done a lot of research for a possible book he was going to write about child murders. I guess it's possible that in his research he was somehow able to glean some personal knowledge about Mr. Ramsey, namely how much his bonus was.

 

But there wouldn't have been any way for this Karr fellow to know how much John Ramsey's bonus was before he "killed" JonBenet, unless he was a close friend of the family. And, even then, it would be kind of odd that he would know the exact amount of the bonus. I mean, why would John Ramsey go around telling people how much his bonus was, and wouldn't it be more likely that he would either say his bonus was "about $100,000" or $120,000? It's odd that the exact, specific amount was noted in the ransom letter. And wasn't there something else that was really specific in the ransom note? Like...something about an attache case or something? It's been a while since I had an interest in this murder.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The DA is just making sure not to say too much, so the defense lawyer can't later say the case has been tainted due to too much media coverage, leaks to the press, etc.

[Celtic Guardian 0]

This guy is delusional, I am banking on this being a false confession by some whackjob who probably followed the case and "fell in love" with Jon Benet Ramsay.

 

More and more this guy comes off less like a "murderer" and more like an "obsessed reality show fan." Karr seems like the guy who loves his favorite reality show so much that he just has to become a character in it. Only Karr's favorite "reality show" is the ultimate televised true crime story.

[vivalaultra 0]

Confession in JonBenet Case Questioned

By CATHERINE TSAI and JON SARCHE, AP

 

BOULDER, Colo. (Aug. 17) - For a moment, it seemed the decade-old mystery surrounding the slaying of a child beauty queen had been solved. But authorities Thursday cautioned against rushing to judge the schoolteacher who made a stunning confession that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

 

 

For now, the only public evidence against John Mark Karr are his own words. And questions have already been raised about the details of his story, including whether he drugged the girl, sexually assaulted her or was even in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

 

Those questions led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

 

"We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy, quoting the little girl's father. "Do not jump to conclusions, do not rush to judgment, do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course."

 

Paraded before a raucous crush of reporters in Bangkok, Thailand, the sullen Karr told how he loved JonBenet, was with her when she died but that her death was an accident. And while vague on the details - "it would take several hours" - he answered flatly when asked if he was innocent: "No."

 

"The bottom line is that they now have a confession and until and unless they can corroborate that confession with either physical evidence or strong circumstantial evidence, that's all they have," said Scott Robinson, a Denver attorney who has followed the case from the beginning.

 

Added former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman: "I have to believe they have more than this kooky confession."

 

Karr told investigators he drugged and sexually assaulted the little girl before accidentally killing her in her Boulder home, according to a senior Thai police officer who was briefed about the interview with U.S. authorities.

 

Yet JonBenet's autopsy report found no evidence of drugs, saying her death was caused by strangulation after a beating that included a fractured skull. And while it describes vaginal injuries, it makes no conclusions about whether she was raped.

 

 

Timeline of the Case

 

 

 

 

Karr's ex-wife told TV reporters she cannot defend him, then insisted he was with her in Alabama during Christmas 1996, when JonBenet's battered body was found in the basement of her home. And authorities have not said whether Karr could have written the detailed ransom note found in the Ramsey home, with its demand for $118,000 (the bonus that had recently been awarded to the girl's father, John Ramsey).

 

Even the Colorado professor who swapped four years' worth of e-mails with Karr and brought him to the attention of prosecutors in May refused to characterize the suspect either as killer or kook.

 

"I don't know that he's guilty," said Michael Tracey, who teaches journalism at the University of Colorado. "Obviously, I went to the district attorney for a reason, but let him have his day in court and let JonBenet have her day in court and let's see how it plays out."

 

Karr himself added to the mystery, telling The Associated Press in Bangkok that JonBenet's death was "not what it seems to be."

 

Asked what happened when JonBenet died, he said: "It would take several hours to describe that. It's a very involved series of events that would involve a lot of time. It's very painful for me to talk about it."

 

Any previous relationship between Karr and the Ramseys remained a mystery Thursday, though both have ties to suburban Atlanta. District Attorney Lacy refused to discuss the case during a brief news conference and suggested Karr's arrest may have been forced by concern over public safety and fears the suspect might flee.

 

"There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete," Lacy said.

 

Karr, 41, was arrested at a Bangkok apartment Wednesday, a day after he began teaching second grade at an international school, Lacy said.

 

Hours later, Thai authorities sat him before a crowded room of news crews. Karr stunned reporters by admitting: "I was with JonBenet when she died. Her death was an accident."

 

"I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet," Karr told the AP.

 

Legal experts said DNA evidence will likely be key: DNA was found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear and authorities have never said whether it matches anyone in an FBI database. U.S. and Thai officials did not directly answer a question at a news conference about whether there was DNA evidence connecting Karr to the crime.

 

Karr was given a mouth-swab DNA test in Bangkok, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. The results of that test were not immediately known. Karr will be given another DNA test when he returns to the United States in the next several days, the official said.

 

Karr will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security told reporters in Bangkok.

 

Lin Wood, the Ramsey family's longtime attorney in Atlanta, said Karr went to great lengths to conceal his identity in e-mails to the university professor, going so far as to use a computer server in Canada.

 

Asked if authorities could tell whether Karr had firsthand knowledge of the murder or had just picked up information from news accounts, Wood said: "There is information about the murder that has never been publicly disclosed." He did not elaborate.

 

Karr's ex-wife, Lara Karr, was quoted by San Francisco television station KGO saying she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of JonBenet's killing and she does not believe he was involved in the homicide.

 

Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said there were "serious questions" about the case.

 

"I hope we have found the murderer of JonBenet, but I have not heard the evidence that compels that conclusion," he said.

 

Karr's description of the case as an accident also rang false to experts.

 

"It's hard to imagine a more intentional, deliberate murder than hitting a little girl in the head so hard that she had almost a foot-long fracture in her skull and then deliberately fashioning a garrotte to twist until it buries in her neck and slowly stops her breathing," said Silverman, the former Denver prosecutor. "This has always been a case of deliberate murder."

 

Associated Press writers Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington and Chase Squires in Boulder, Colo., contributed to this report.

 

 

2006-08-17 17:10 EDT

 

This is the latest article. This shit's weird, yo.

[Gary Floyd 0]

You just know that at some point, the dad raped her. Her parents were so fucking weird, it wouldn't suprise me.

[Gert T 0]

Yeah that latest AP article pretty much leads me to believe he was not involved. The best line in that article was Karr's perspective that her death was an accident, and then the refuter talks about the massive skull fracture and strangulation (sp.).

 

Is it possible the brother or someone was playing around with her and then she fell so they staged the killing? (I admit I do not know much about the case.)

[The Amazing Rando 0]

It has been said that he was interested in many child murders, spending time in California learning about one (I can't remember which exactly) and could have decided that he would rather go back to the US and end up with an insanity or not guilty plea on this charge rather than spend some time in a Thai prison for child porn charges.

[vivalaultra 0]

For some reason, I'm really interested in this case again. I'll keep posting AP articles in case anyone else wants to read em. Here's the latest. It's got alot of stuff already said, but some new interesting things. I put ellipses where there was stuff that's already been said.

 

Confession in JonBenet Case Questioned

By CATHERINE TSAI and JON SARCHE, AP

 

BOULDER, Colo. (Aug. 17) - If John Mark Karr is telling the truth, he picked up 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey at school, took her home to drug and rape her, and then accidentally killed her nearly 10 years ago.

 

But schools were closed for the Christmas break when JonBenet died and an autopsy found no evidence of drugs in the little girl's body and was inconclusive about sexual assault. And few experts believe that a girl who was slowly strangled with a garrote was killed by accident. There are even questions whether Karr was in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

 

The doubts have led some to wonder whether the 41-year-old Karr is the answer to the long-unsolved slaying of the child beauty queen or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

 

...

 

Experts said the questions surrounding Karr's story put more pressure on corroborating evidence such as DNA.

 

"They either have a miss or a match on the DNA," former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman said. "If it's a miss, the prosecution has serious problems. If it's a match, then it's game, set and match for this case. Couple the DNA with the kooky confession and it's enough for most people to convict."

 

...

 

"The bottom line is that they now have a confession and until and unless they can corroborate that confession with either physical evidence or strong circumstantial evidence, that's all they have," said Scott Robinson, a Denver attorney who has followed the case from the beginning.

 

Karr told investigators he drugged and sexually assaulted the little girl before accidentally killing her in her Boulder home, according to a senior Thai police officer who was briefed about the interview with U.S. authorities.

 

Yet JonBenet 's autopsy report found no evidence of drugs, saying her death was caused by strangulation after a beating that included a fractured skull. And while it describes vaginal injuries, it makes no conclusions about whether she was raped. Investigators later concluded there was no semen on JonBenet 's body.

 

...

 

 

Also unclear is whether Karr - whose record includes a 2001 arrest on misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography - had any previous relationship with the Ramsey family, though both have ties to suburban Atlanta.

 

District Attorney Lacy refused to discuss the case during a brief news conference and suggested Karr's arrest may have been forced by concern over public safety and fears the suspect might flee.

 

"There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete," Lacy said.

 

Karr was arrested at a Bangkok apartment Wednesday, a day after he began teaching second grade at an international school, Lacy said.

 

Hours later, Thai authorities sat him before a crowded room of news crews. Karr stunned reporters by admitting: "I was with JonBenet when she died. Her death was an accident."

 

"I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet ," Karr told the AP.

 

...

 

Associated Press writers Jocelyn Gecker in Bangkok, Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington, Chase Squires in Boulder, Colo., and Marcus Wohlsen in Petaluma, Calif. contributed to this report.

 

 

AP-ES-08-17-06 2019EDT

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah that latest AP article pretty much leads me to believe he was not involved. The best line in that article was Karr's perspective that her death was an accident, and then the refuter talks about the massive skull fracture and strangulation (sp.).

 

Is it possible the brother or someone was playing around with her and then she fell so they staged the killing? (I admit I do not know much about the case.)

 

I doubt they would try to cover up a simple accident, in such a sick way at that.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Okay, I never understood; why would they kill their own daughter?

 

Like, even if they didn't need money or anything, why would they kill their daughter? Was there ever a motive suggested to the possibility of it being her parents? Or is it just thought that they're nuts?

[Art Sandusky 0]

The way I see it, anyone who subjects their kid to that shit is cracked.

[vivalaultra 0]

Because of my often passing interest in things, I decided to look up a bunch of stuff on this case before I lose interest in it. Among some of the odd, interesting things I've learned is that:

 

The autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey showed that she had eaten pineapple a few hours before she was murdered. Her mother was not aware of her eating pineapples.

 

A Bible on John Ramsey's desk was opened to Psalm 118-the exact amount in millions the ransom letter asked for.

 

Half a paintbrush from Patsy Ramsey's personal art kit was used to form the garrotte that strangeled JonBenet.

 

The ransom note was written with a Sharpie that was in a jar in the Ramsey's kitchen.

 

There was speculation that Patsy Ramsey murdered her daughter in a fit of rage because her daughter had wet the bed earlier that nite. There was also speculation that John Ramsey had been sexually abusing his daughter for some time and murdered her as a cover-up, but none of the DNA evidence belonged to either of them.

 

So, using all of the evidence, and the sleuthing skills I learned on Ghostwriter, I can deduce that either the parents lied and they killed her or that this Karr fellow, if he actually did it, was comfortable enough with the Ramsey family that he could a.) feed JonBenet pineapple without her freaking out, b.) break into their house without arousing the sleeping family, c.) be comfortable enough in the home and with the home stay in the house long enough to find a murder weapon, kill JonBenet, go upstairs to the kitchen, find a Sharpie, write a "practice" ransom note, then write a real ransom note, all the while being quiet enough to not wake anybody up.

 

I hope this case gets resolved soon before I lose interest in it for another 10 years.

[Red Baron 0]

He was paid off to do the job.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

He was paid off to do the job.

 

OK, that would make an interesting idea for a movie plot, but what would be the motive behind that?

[bobobrazil1984 0]

There was speculation that Patsy Ramsey murdered her daughter in a fit of rage because her daughter had wet the bed earlier that nite. There was also speculation that John Ramsey had been sexually abusing his daughter for some time and murdered her as a cover-up, but none of the DNA evidence belonged to either of them.

 

Where did this speculation come from though ? is there any evidence whatsoever of Patsy having any sort of out-of-control temper or the slightest bit of evidence about John doing his daughter? As far as i know there is nothing that implies that, in fact Patsy it turned out had a reputation for being a pretty mellow and loving person. I know that a lot of BS was leaked out by the Boulder police during the initial media frenzy and has since stuck. Like there was "reports" at the time that the Ramsey's dealt in all sorts of porn (possibly kiddie porn). Turned out to be nothing but a fake leak floated by the police, who from moment 1 believed it was the parents and were apparently tryign to smoke them out.

 

if you want to talk about incriminating evidence, at least the paintbrush and sharpie are physical pieces of evidence, and not just baseless wild speculation.

 

 

the Karr thing is looking bad at the moment, but supposedly he had secret knowledge of the crime scene, which doesn't necesasrily mean much. it does sound like, though from related storeis about him that he is a sick puppy obssesed with kids, so hopefully even if he isn't involved in jonbenet, they can nail him on something else.

 

I think in the end, its about that DNA. Whoever matches the DNA is most likely the killer.

[vivalaultra 0]

About the Patsy Ramsey killing her daughter for wetting the bed thing, I wasn't mentioning that as something that I personally believe. I was just throwing out interesting bits and pieces of things that I read various places. Personally, I don't think that her parents murdered her, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had something to do with it.

 

So, has anybody seen one of the newest articles that has side-by-side pitcures of Karr and the psychic sketch released 10 years ago? That's creepy.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I haven't been this aroused since 1996.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I hope this case gets resolved soon before I lose interest in it for another 10 years.

 

And also because it would be good to see justice finally done for Jonbennet and her family?

 

 

You know a six year girl was horrifically murdered here. I'm not having a go at anyone specifically, but it seems a lot of people are just treating this case as some sort of entertainment for themselves.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

That's partly the media's fault though. They sensationalize everything and try to make a story like this into a thriller novel instead of treating this kind of thing with some sensitivity.

[vivalaultra 0]

 

 

I hope this case gets resolved soon before I lose interest in it for another 10 years.

 

And also because it would be good to see justice finally done for Jonbennet and her family?

 

 

You know a six year girl was horrifically murdered here. I'm not having a go at anyone specifically, but it seems a lot of people are just treating this case as some sort of entertainment for themselves.

 

Well, obviously that, too. Six year old girls (and boys) are murdered every day and they don't become news stories. I apologize if my sarcastic remark offended anyone's Puritan sensibilities.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

 

 

I hope this case gets resolved soon before I lose interest in it for another 10 years.

 

And also because it would be good to see justice finally done for Jonbennet and her family?

 

 

You know a six year girl was horrifically murdered here. I'm not having a go at anyone specifically, but it seems a lot of people are just treating this case as some sort of entertainment for themselves.

 

Well, obviously that, too. Six year old girls (and boys) are murdered every day and they don't become news stories. I apologize if my sarcastic remark offended anyone's Puritan sensibilities.

 

 

It didn't offend me at all. And I apologize if I didn't grasp the sarcastic tone of your post (that's the problem with the internet). Your comment about losing interest, just seemed to represent the probelm with how people are treating this case: it's not about achieving some sort of closure in the Ramsey murder, it's about keeping the public engrossed with one juicy detail after another. Yes, you can blame the media for it, but the public are the ones lapping it and creating one elaborate conspiracy after another.

[TSA09 0]

I think this guy is taking a dive for someone. It's too shady that nothing has been done/said about this cold case for 10 years and then Patsy dies and what 2 months later a break in the case and the killer is found. I'm not buying it.