What would it take for another boom period in wrestling to happen?

[chaosrage 0]

Same thing in '98: Stone Cold Steve Austin. The company sold more Austin 3:16 shirts than every other t-shirt combined. This example also kills the whole "competent writing and good booking" idea: the writing and booking from fall of '97 to spring of '98 was TERRIBLE. Russo's crash-tv theory ruled the day. Feuds were started and then abruptly forgotten with almost WCW-like quickness. Characters were randomly turned babyface and heel on almost a daily basis. (Example: I dare anyone to give me a complete synopsis of the Taker/Kane feud from that time period.) Steve Austin put that company on his back and carried it from near-bankruptcy into billion-dollar success.

 

The spring of 1997 to the summer of 1998 was the absolute apex of writing/booking in a major promotion of the past twenty years. For about 18 months, the company shot amazing angles, developed great characters and feuds and put on a compelling product that changed the landscape of the industry. It became cool to hate on Russo by late 1999, but the stuff he was doing at first was innovative and immensely entertaining. The development of the Austin character has as much to do with the writing from that period as it does with the man himself.

 

Yeah, it's really dumb to say the boom happened just because of Austin and Austin alone. The whole product was good. The writing on the shows was easily the best that it's ever been.

 

More Vince Russo. http://fileanchor.com/55074-d http://fileanchor.com/55077-d I'm starting to think Russo may deserve more credit than he's given for the the boom period.

 

Characters were randomly turned babyface and heel on almost a daily basis. (Example: I dare anyone to give me a complete synopsis of the Taker/Kane feud from that time period.)

 

Since neither Taker or Kane turned face or heel in that period, how is that an example of characters randomly turning face and heel?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Are we talking about business success or the quality of the product? Because the two aren't necessarily the same.

[CubbyBr 0]

As far as the business overall, i think LAX in TNA could be one of the next big things in wrestling, tapping into the latin market. I could see them selling tons of LAX "5150" shirts.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I concur...but only if they get somebody that's nearly as good a wrestler - or even better - as Homicide to join the team. A tag team with an ex-wrestler mouthpiece is a good idea, but it's not going to change the landscape of the business. Homicide is believable in everything he does: his moves are snug and stiff, his facial expressions make him flat-out APPEAR to be the murderous maniac that his character is made out to be, and his look in general (the ink, the shaved head, the baggy shorts and less-defined-but-bulky muscular stature) just screams "I'm going to fucking hurt you." That's the kind of guy wrestling needs right now: somebody who looks, acts, and talks believable.

 

Hogan looked, talked, and acted larger than life. It's what helped make Hulkamania unstoppable in the 80's: Hogan was unstoppable. But he COULD be defeated. He was. Several times. Not often, but several times he was. That was one of the big pluses of Goldberg's undefeated streak: whoever ended it was getting a huge rub. Then, of course, Nash fucked it all up, and...yeah. A big plus to HHH's fucking long-ass World title reign: whoever ended it was getting a big rub. Benoit...and yeah, it went nowhere. Now I'm contradicting myself.

Wait...I'm actually semi-interested in Cena now...why? Because he's believable. He's pissed off, he's attacking Edge from out of nowhere to goad him back into a title match to get his belt and pride back, and he only really gets the better of Edge when he blindsides him. Cena held the title for nearly a year, and while the majority of his reign was awful (though I still feel the first few months were really good), the ending was perfect: Edge one-up's him right after he just survived a grueling match, covered in his own blood, and beats him easily for the belt. It lead to some of the best episodes of Raw in years.

 

We need feuds and characters (NOT GIMMICKS) that are believable. Am I saying to do away with wild men from the jungle? No, but treat them like they are: side show attractions. A throwback to wrestling's past, when the bad guys wore black and threw punches, and the good guys wore white and used hiptosses and headlocks.

 

My idea, personally, would be to treat wrestling somewhat like a reality TV show. Don't acknowledge that the ending of every match is predetermined, but have interviews with the wrestlers much like they do on the Real World and Big Brother and whatnot. They go into a designated room out back to cut promo's, either with an interviewer or by themselves. Explain it constantly on TV that there are hidden cameras backstage, and while not everything is shown as it transpires, everything is recorded (yes, this kinda brings back GTV, but actually gives it some logic). Like almost everybody has been saying, let the wrestlers work varied styles rather than punch-kick-schoolboy-slam-pin. RVD, Rey Mysterio Jr., Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, Sabu...these men are over not only because of their talent, but also because of how different they are from everybody else. Benoit is seen as a legitimate threat to EVERYBODY on the roster due to his technical prowess, ditto for Angle, and RVD is seen as a threat due to a high tolerance for pain, incredible agility, and knowledge of the martial arts. Mysterio is much the same way, only with greater speed and his smaller stature makes it easier for him to escape larger - and slower - wrestlers. Sabu has always been booked as a man who will fight his opponent to the death (mostly due to his own creation of the gimmick, taken from his uncle), tossing aside the risk of injury, and that's why he's a threat: he's a fucking suicide bomber.

 

It's late, so little of this makes much sense...but I'll prolly come back to touch upon my "reality TV wrestling" idea.

[CubbyBr 0]

I concur...but only if they get somebody that's nearly as good a wrestler - or even better - as Homicide to join the team. A tag team with an ex-wrestler mouthpiece is a good idea, but it's not going to change the landscape of the business. Homicide is believable in everything he does: his moves are snug and stiff, his facial expressions make him flat-out APPEAR to be the murderous maniac that his character is made out to be, and his look in general (the ink, the shaved head, the baggy shorts and less-defined-but-bulky muscular stature) just screams "I'm going to fucking hurt you." That's the kind of guy wrestling needs right now: somebody who looks, acts, and talks believable.

 

I agree and I think that guy is Ron Killings...as long as he starts acting like he did in 2002 when TNA first started up. The guy looked, talked, and acted like a crazy SOB, whipping people with his metal belt, etc. They need to turn that shit up and almost make him a New Jack-type character. Putting him with LAX would make them look like a completely believable crazy street gang.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

The only way any sort of decent boom period to come, ECW needs to become it's own entity, and really be ECW, not WWECW.

 

NWA-TNA need to make a lot of changes. Aesthic changes, gimmick changes, and most importantly, back stage changes.

 

WWE need to have a real draft. Have new guys come in, and have "try out"matches for Vince or coach or Shane or whoever runs Raw, and Teddy Long. Mix in some of the current roster and have a "real" draft.

 

It'd be an easy way to bring in new guys from OVW or elsewhere, and get over new guys that are just debuting, like MVP, if the dude can actually wrestle, anyway.

 

Then really make Raw and Smackdown and ECW equals, hopefully by this time, TNA has fixed it's major problems, and you got about as big of a boom as you can get right now.

 

 

It'll probably be at least 2010, 2011 or so before wrestling can be cool again. I'm not saying it ever will be, just that if the industry can stick around and make some changes by then, they might be able to pull something off.

 

Just remember, Hogan, Michaels, Hart, Austin, Taker, Rock...

 

All these guys came up on thier own, and then got thier God pushes, and it paid off.

 

Now these dudes are coming through the WWE training or being forced to change the style that got them noticed to conform to WWE Style.

 

All those guys I named had their own style that they were allowed to develop on thier own and get over.

 

That's why Hogan, Michaels, Hart, Austin, Taker, Rock and the rest will always draw better then Cena, Edge, Lashley, JBL, Batista, WWE-ized Booker T, etc.

[iggymcfly 0]

Actually, I'd disagree on Edge. I think he does have a character that's his own now that's believable that works really well for him. He's super over as a heel, and if he even had a reasonably over face to play off of, he'd be golden. The fact that they haven't started a Edge/DX feud yet is just ridiculous.

[King Cucaracha 0]

People saying "good booking" are right, to a point. But it needn't be seamless, primetime TV level booking with absolutely no plot-flaws what-so-ever. Wrestling is wrestling. It's not like other TV shows, because they don't have to weave 'they dress up in women's swimming trunks and wrestle in front of thousands of people' into their scripts.

 

The main thing is entertainment.

 

Sure, 1999 might not have been the most flawless period of sensible booking, but people watched the show and the crowd were more into anything than they are now. ECW's shows were littered with logic gaps (singles matches turning into impromptu tag teams matches being my pet-hate), but they entertained the fans. There has to be a limit, naturally, before you get to the stage where you're over-booking, ala WCW in 2000. But the main thing is entertainment, whether it's critically acclaimed or not.

 

You know the big problem right now? NOTHING HAPPENS!! Summerslam is supposed to be the second biggest show of the year. NOTHING HAPPENED!! No stars were made, there were no debuts, no surprise heel-turns or unexpected run-ins. Nothing. It was just another by the numbers PPV. And that's the problem. People need a reason to tune into shows. The ratings spiked after Edge won the title at New Year's Revolution because it was a shock and off the regular path. Back in 1999, you HAD to watch PPVs because if The Giant can burst through the ring and debut attacking Stone Cold, then something interesting could happen on the next PPV. Hell, it needn't be a company changing surprise everytime. When Coach turned heel at Summerslam 03, that was great. There's an intrigue level there where now, there is none, except 'will this guy win or not' and you can satisfy that without spending $39.95. Even if they'd debuted Jeff Hardy at Summerslam it would have been something, but they saved that even for RAW.

[benn 0]

People saying "good booking" are right, to a point. But it needn't be seamless, primetime TV level booking with absolutely no plot-flaws what-so-ever. Wrestling is wrestling. It's not like other TV shows, because they don't have to weave 'they dress up in women's swimming trunks and wrestle in front of thousands of people' into their scripts.

 

The main thing is entertainment.

 

Sure, 1999 might not have been the most flawless period of sensible booking, but people watched the show and the crowd were more into anything than they are now. ECW's shows were littered with logic gaps (singles matches turning into impromptu tag teams matches being my pet-hate), but they entertained the fans. There has to be a limit, naturally, before you get to the stage where you're over-booking, ala WCW in 2000. But the main thing is entertainment, whether it's critically acclaimed or not.

You know the big problem right now? NOTHING HAPPENS!! Summerslam is supposed to be the second biggest show of the year. NOTHING HAPPENED!! No stars were made, there were no debuts, no surprise heel-turns or unexpected run-ins. Nothing. It was just another by the numbers PPV. And that's the problem. People need a reason to tune into shows. The ratings spiked after Edge won the title at New Year's Revolution because it was a shock and off the regular path. Back in 1999, you HAD to watch PPVs because if The Giant can burst through the ring and debut attacking Stone Cold, then something interesting could happen on the next PPV. Hell, it needn't be a company changing surprise everytime. When Coach turned heel at Summerslam 03, that was great. There's an intrigue level there where now, there is none, except 'will this guy win or not' and you can satisfy that without spending $39.95. Even if they'd debuted Jeff Hardy at Summerslam it would have been something, but they saved that even for RAW.

I was thinking exactly the same thing to myself a couple of hours ago.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

They're doing Bischoff booking to get higher tv ratings. But there's no fucking point in vince doing it, he has no serious competition.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Does anyone think WWE is getting a little scared of UFC cutting into its market? I know the two are opposite in what they offer but you have to think there is some crossover between wrestling fans and the MMA market and from reports the UFC major pay-per-views are outgrossing the domestic share of WWE PPV's. If that's the case could this prompt some action by WWE to get its act together?

[iggymcfly 0]

I completely agree that nothing ever changes.

 

Main event of NYR: Edge defeats Cena for the WWE title

Main event of RR: Cena defeats Edge for the WWE title

Main event of hyped Raw: Cena defeats Edge for the WWE title

Main event of Backlash: Cena defeats Edge and HHH for the WWE title

Main event of hyped Raw: Edge defeats Cena and RVD for the WWE title

Main event at SNME: Edge defeats Cena for the WWE title

Main event of Summerslam: Edge defeats Cena for the WWE title

 

So where do we go from here? Do we actually move on to a new program after 6 months or so? Of course not. Edge and Cena are going to continue feuding for another month with pretty much no development whatsoever before they have a match that may be the blowoff or may lead to matches for a few more weeks before they decide to go in a different direction.

[The Niggardly King 0]

2 things that are in great need.

 

1. Competition

 

2. Great, charismatic wrestlers.

 

Listen... right now. Mainstream wrestling storylines in the US... most of them have always been stupid or look like they would suck if you read about them. There might be one, or even two occasions a year when something great would come together, and produce a good storyline. Even during the Attitude era... there was some really stupid shit. Austin and The Rock were just so great, that they could overcome this, and make it seem worthy with their amount of charisma. Mankind and The Undertaker to a lesser extent did this as well.

 

They're also things like overexposure, and cynical fans... but those things can seem like nothing when you have those two things. Competition's a problem though... as the only thing that could help TNA at this point, would be someone like Ted Turner buying them... that's TNA's only hope of getting into the mainstream.

[cabbageboy 0]

I am just amazed that anyone thinks LAX is going to do anything of note in the business. Fuck, it's Konnan's lame latino heel faction. I repeat: Konnan in the year 2006, still rambling arriba la raza and all that shit. From watching that TNA PPV recently I saw that Homicide is pretty good but I haven't seen anything yet as to why he's so amazing (a lot of ROH guys on TNA are like this). Hernandez? He was notably bad compared to the likes of Styles and Daniels. Right now they won't even be as notable as the LWO. This isn't to say they have no place in TNA or shouldn't have the tag belts, but they'll hardly start a boom.

 

Anyway, for a boom period to occur it's going to take a total overhaul of the WWE talent system. Being from Louisville I have watched a lot of OVW over the years and been to a few shows, and while it's interesting on some levels it produces the same generic type of wrestler. It's like a factory. Guys look similar (big physiques, over 6 ft., etc), they do the same bland moves and are prohibited from doing anything interesting. This has produced the less than enthralling Lesnars, Ortons, Cenas, and Batistas of the world.

 

Everyone says they need competent booking, but what does that mean? Here's what I think: Accentuate the various divisions. Have a world champion with several contenders vying for the belt. An IC division with about 5 different challengers in the mix. Tag divisions with real teams instead of tossed together singles guys.

 

I would also enjoy seeing actual FEUDS with guys who hate each other's guts and want to kill each other in the worst way. Know what the best stuff on WWE TV this year has been? Lashley vs. Finlay. Two guys who have tried to kill one another for the basic reason that they hate each other. That's what we need: Less ironic humor and comedy, more vicious hatred.

[tominator89 0]

In addition to competition, I think the current booking philosophies need to change.

 

- The storylines have no conclusion whatsoever. It's an exchange of victories so that both characters are protected. These wins are rarely ever clean. The fueds are not blown off.

 

- Wrestlers need the creative freedom to portray characters closer to their own actual personalities. It wasn't until Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH moved away from their characters that they actually got over with the fans. Vince may call this "Attitude" but I'd consider it more of performers being given more free reign. Just look at the scripted promos and how boring they've become.

 

- The fueds should be planned out with some degree of longterm ideas in mind. It took Charlie Haas accidentally knocking Lillian off the ring for him to get anything remotely resembling a storyline for himself. Random fueds have really hurt the general fan's interest in wrestling.

 

- Once the booking plans have been set, certain wrestlers need to be kept apart from each other. Random tag team main events have a use, but it's become overdone. The exciting feeling of two people wrestling for the first time is gone.

[The Niggardly King 0]

- Wrestlers need the creative freedom to portray characters closer to their own actual personalities. It wasn't until Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH moved away from their characters that they actually got over with the fans. Vince may call this "Attitude" but I'd consider it more of performers being given more free reign. Just look at the scripted promos and how boring they've become.

 

That's a big one also... just look at how bad Cena's become since they decided to write his promos.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't see another boom period happening while the usual suspects are around. If anyone gets hot they almost always get buried, either by design or stupidity. It's going to take a complete overhaul of the 'creative' mindset at WWE for the necessary intangibles for a wrestling boom to remain in place without being tampered with and rendered useless.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

- Wrestlers need the creative freedom to portray characters closer to their own actual personalities. It wasn't until Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH moved away from their characters that they actually got over with the fans. Vince may call this "Attitude" but I'd consider it more of performers being given more free reign. Just look at the scripted promos and how boring they've become.

 

That's a big one also... just look at how bad Cena's become since they decided to write his promos.

 

 

the fucked up thing is it was Cena's idea to stop doing the Freestyles.

[Dandy 0]

Some of this will be a rehash of what has been said earlier in this thread, as I waited to read everything before I posted my thoughts. Also, these are several ideas that I have had for the last few years. I will look for the links to those threads after this post.

 

Both Raw and Smackdown need big changes. First off, reward Teddy Long by making him the Commissioner of both brands (he is replacing my idea for Bischoff, but Bisch is gone now). Vince is still head of everything, but Teddy is the guy that directly oversees the shows. He will only be on TV or PPV when it counts, like some big decision on a title, a suspension, and he will be seen in every title match, as well as the draft.

 

The draft should be handled a la the NFL draft, with both brands selecting guys from OVW, Deep South, and other developmental leagues. Highlight packages can be shown of promos, matches, finishers, etc. Their strengths and weaknesses should be talked about and teleprompted on the screen. It should be a big deal whether to go for the guy that has been in OVW for four years and is ready now, or go for the green guy with a lot of potential a couple years down the road. Two or three agents from each show will be the guys seen as in charge of their show's draft.

 

New sets, music, and graphics for both brands.

 

Bring back The Fink for every title match, and do a "Tale of the Tape."

 

Time limits for matches on TV unless otherwise noted. Title matches have no limit unless they bring back the TV Title.

 

Everyone should be designated for a division and ranked. It gives everyone a purpose. A cruiser could move up to IC, US, or HW divisions if he wanted, but only cruisers wrestle in the CW division.

 

In boxing and MMA, the best matches and/or draws are in the lighter weight divisions. WWE should treat ALL titles seriously and showcase them.

 

More matches should end without a signature finisher. Strikes, TKO's, and big impact moves should gradually be incorporated. Pinning sequences should be as well, as long as it is not the roll-up while someone is distracted bit. Everyone should be encouraged (behind the scenes) to come up with a few different finishes to get over, like when Batista had the spinebuster, clothesline, and BatistaBomb.

 

Let the wrestlers cut their own promos. If they need help, they can ask for it or be given help. If not, let them run with what they are good at.

 

As for the writing, they need to have Foley, Arn, Bischoff, Heyman, and Steamboat be the writing committee. Forget about Hollywood writers who have experience working in commercial breaks in a script. You need people with a mind for the business who can come up with great angles on feuds. I'm sure these guys would not resort to a feud over a shampoo commercial or spilled coffee.

 

There needs to be one centralized angle that effects every member of the roster in some way. I think all angles could intertwine at brief points, but there needs to be one huge angle running in the background. An idea I had was for Vince to be found (not on camera) to be attacked and seriously injured in a hotel after a Raw/Smackdown joint show. His injuries should be like a broken leg, concussion, collapsed lung, etc. Nothing that would be cheesy like amnesia or in a coma, but serious nonetheless. He can be off TV for a long period of time, but be talked about occasionally as it is investigated as to who attacked him and why. Maybe even have an actor portray an investigator on the shows, and info can leak out between the wrestlers on who had a motive, who was there at the time, etc. The culmination of this could be a wrestler from the mid-card or so that gets a huge rub after a year-long angle (not mentioned every show and beaten into the ground).

 

During the later stages of the Vince angle, he could give a face interview that says he is glad he was not killed, it's no wonder he was attacked because of how big an asshole he had gotten, etc.

 

Cena should get pissed off that he lost his belt and the fans aren't as into him as they were before. Have him be interviewed by Maria and get ticked at something she dimwittingly said. He could push her to the ground or something, but do something to make all the fans turn on him. He should also still hate Edge and anyone else he has been feuding with for a while, but fight the faces as well. Make him the tweener of the century, by not being aligned with anyone, and lose the hip hop part of his persona. He could just be this pissed off, anti-everyone loner that will stop at nothing to get his title off of whoever has it.

 

Shawn Michaels should be put on Smackdown, and after a couple of months, announce he is retiring. He would be the number on contender at this point, and be offered a match for the title. Shawn would accept the match and say it would be a nice way to end his career, going for the title. He wins, then announces he is serious about retiring, but does not just want to vacate the belt. So, when he loses the belt, that will be his last match. Every match from that point on has the added drama of "Is this Shawn's last match?"

 

Also, I would bring back Steve Austin in a non-wrestling role, where he wears a suit and tie, doesn't drink beer, doesn't play to the crowd, and is an antagonist for the main faces. I would have him say that he was awarded stock options over his years of wrestling by Linda McMahon as a reward for all he did for WWE. He could act like he was the only reason WWE survived, and he is here to save it once again. He would be the representative from the Board of Directors, and play a rich, cocky heel. Basically, the exact opposite of what he was as Stone Cold. I would do this after they milk a Hogan/Austin match at WM23, if both sides agree. Whoever WWE wants as the next big face can wind up facing him at WM24 or something and winning decisively.

 

Other than Austin (and Hogan for the WM23 feud), I would get rid of all the semi-retired talent. Focus on the young guys, exploit their strengths and hide their weaknesses.

 

If they did all these, the product would be better, it wouldn't be as offensive to watch as some of the stupid stuff or the stale stuff we have been seeing, and interest might pick up among casual fans or fans that have left over the years.

[Jingus 0]

fantasizing

 

Problem is, the chance of any of that happening is pretty much zero. Vince has proven time and time again that until he's seriously hurting financially and can no longer possibly ignore the fact that his product is stale, he sees no reason to change anything. They're still turning a profit now, so they don't see any problems.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

While I think that we need a new superstar who can relate to the fans like Austin or Rock did, I think some small changes need to be made first. Most of these have been said, but..Make ECW more like the old ECW and its own seperate brand. Change the sets. Have one referee on each brand who only refs the main event, like Hebner used to do. He always made matches seem more important. Cut down on ridiculous characters like the Boogeyman, Spirit Squad, etc. A few here and there are ok. Push the tag team divisions with real tag teams. No more teams going months without a defense. Do not waste spots for title matches on big PPVs with shit like the McMahons vs DX. There are a lot more changes that would need to be made but thats a start. And one thing I have always said..if possible, make Smackdown live. Nobody watches it cause they already know what is going to happen.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

This entire thread, my post included, was nothing but fantasizing about some shit we'd each like to see and think would be cool.

 

I'd say 10% of any of the stuff posted here has any chance of happening.

[Promoter 0]

It's true that from summer 1997 until summer 1998 may have been the best booking wwe ever did. The problem is that all the great stuff they did within that timespan they kept doing over and over until they ran it into the ground. Really think about all the angles that happened in that year and you will see it copied verbatim ever since. 1999 I still conclude is smoke and mirrors due to the fact that the titles changed hands the most that year which kept people watching. We know exactly what this has caused in the years after 1999. 2000 was perhaps the actual wrestling content peak though. One thing that everyone has missed in this thread is this...........(stolen from another site and is A BIG REASON WHY PEOPLE JUST DON'T WATCH)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Not my post, but I echo the sentiments along with millions of other fans.

 

-----------------------------------

 

I have been watching wrestling since i was 15, I got into it on my own and watched it despite the fact that my family thought it was the most retarded thing ever to grace the telivision.

 

I honestly could have had an easier time explaining the advantages of phone sex to my parents than why I watched wrestling. Thing is, I grew to like it (wrestling not phone sex), and kept watching as new characters like the Rock and Jericho were introduced. I was genuinely proud of wrestling when The invasion angle was introduced and kept right on being disappointed all the way through the cancer called NWO. Thing is, I don't consider myself an OMG Workrate! fan because I saw hour long matches and I thought they get pretty fucking boring.

 

I mean at a certain point you are watching a match you KNOW is going to go on much longer and already the two wrestlers are tired as hell.

 

I am looking for/asking for ONE thing and one thing only in wrestling these days. I want to be able to show my girlfriend that it isn't as retarded as my family thought it was. I want to show it to her and have her not take it with a grain of salt. I don't want to have to say, "Now I know these 45 minutes of packages and skits and promos sucked but there is this guy when he does this thing that makes the last 2 hours of your time spent totally worth it."

 

Thing is at this point, I know I can't. I dont' even bother watching anymore and I simply get my information from this website or wrestlezone.

 

What is even more infurating is that if WWE would do what I want it to do it would make much more money. But it isn't and that is why I think Vince really is taking the company in the wrong direction.

 

I mean a trend I have noticed is that the things in WWE anti-Vince are getting the best reviews. When Smackdown had it's own identity (with the Smackdown six) it was a giant "Fuck you" to Vince and his "entertainment" ideas. Low and behold, it was kicking Raw's ass and needed a gutting. When ECW first popped up and was reflecting a Vince touch, people were saying it was the worst thing on tv ever. Now, with clearly less Vince and more separation from other things WWE, (like having their own wrestlers) ECW is doing better than people hoped, and is clearly better than smackdown. Thing is, people can actually watch that wrestling on sci-fi and say things like "Hey, check out this sabu guy, or RVD and Angle are going to have a match you got to see this, or fucking Big show is huge..." I have mch more faith in Heyman than I do Rhodes or anything McMahon.

 

I guess the point I am trying to make in a roundabout way is that we are more focused on the product in an enviornment like this because we are too ashamed to bring it up to people we just met or folks at work we don't know. And that is purely Vince's fault.

 

All our thoughts and opinions get poured into a forum like this because asking what my GF thought of it is simply not an option. As a result, every tidbit of analysis about every part can only be vented somewhere like this.

 

I will start enjoying WWE if it can simply not shame its viewers (at the very leat, the amount of shame is less than the amount of pride), hell, at one point (I think it was at the height of the NWO in WCW I believe) you had regular rich housewives saying how they thought Nash was sexy, which meant that regular Moms watched wrestling with their kids. You would never have rich housewives having their kids watch "Live sex acts" on WWE raw now. Not that I hate live sex acts, Lita's contributions are always welcome, but it is simply irritating as an enthusiast to see the ONE outlet for wrestling be so pitifully managed by people grossly undeserving of any label involving the word creative.

 

So yeah, my name is Cyrus, I hate Vince, and I am a closet wrestling fan.

[Jingus 0]

I am looking for/asking for ONE thing and one thing only in wrestling these days. I want to be able to show my girlfriend that it isn't as retarded as my family thought it was. I want to show it to her and have her not take it with a grain of salt. I don't want to have to say, "Now I know these 45 minutes of packages and skits and promos sucked but there is this guy when he does this thing that makes the last 2 hours of your time spent totally worth it."

 

I completely agree with that bit. I'm the only wrestling fan in my entire family... and I pray to God that none of them ever turn on a WWE show. I literally can't watch wrestling in the same room with a friend or relative who's a non-fan. Because it usually takes less than ten minutes for something incredibly tasteless and offensive to happen, and I just can't justify it to them. What am I gonna say? "Yeah, I know it's probably the stupidest show on TV, but I watch it anyway. What? Do I LIKE it? No... not most of the time. Why do I still watch it then? . . . "

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Wrestling is at it's best when you can be watching it when people come into the room and not hurry to change channel. WWE have gone so far in the other direction it's not even funny.

[Dandy 0]

I know I'm fantasizing, Jingus. The question was "what needs to happen," not "what will happen." However, I do think that one thing drives Vince, and that is success. If he sees ratings continue to dive, MMA increase it's success, PPV buyrates dwindle, live gates bring less and less money, and overall revenue decline.....he will do something about it. Do I think he will incorporate all of my ideas? Hell no. Some of them? Perhaps. I'm sure that Vince did not necessarily want to adopt a wellness policy that would restrict what he was looking for in his superstars, but events necessitated it and he implimented one.

 

You wait and see if MMA starts taking away more of his viewers if he doesn't change his direction.

 

EDIT---I know you said they are still turning a profit now, but I think he will make necessary changes while they are STILL turning a profit. He won't wait until they go to the red before he changes.

[EricMM 0]

Here's the thing.

 

Any attempt to "legitimize" the "sport" of wrestling is struck down quickly.

 

They don't show a sport or a match, they show an argument and a fight.

 

They make movies.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I am looking for/asking for ONE thing and one thing only in wrestling these days. I want to be able to show my girlfriend that it isn't as retarded as my family thought it was. I want to show it to her and have her not take it with a grain of salt. I don't want to have to say, "Now I know these 45 minutes of packages and skits and promos sucked but there is this guy when he does this thing that makes the last 2 hours of your time spent totally worth it."

 

I completely agree with that bit. I'm the only wrestling fan in my entire family... and I pray to God that none of them ever turn on a WWE show. I literally can't watch wrestling in the same room with a friend or relative who's a non-fan. Because it usually takes less than ten minutes for something incredibly tasteless and offensive to happen, and I just can't justify it to them. What am I gonna say? "Yeah, I know it's probably the stupidest show on TV, but I watch it anyway. What? Do I LIKE it? No... not most of the time. Why do I still watch it then? . . . "

 

I totally hear this argument. I'm in the same boat and I go through this every week when RAW comes on and my dad wants to watch something else and then shakes his head when characters like Eugene are on or when Viscera was humping people like nuts last summer. Funny part is that every time he comes in and I'm watching when I'm home from college he starts asking me where Mr. Perfect is or the Big Bossman or Jake the Snake and I have to tell him that they are either broke, drugged out, or dead. Just freakin' sad.

[dh86 0]

the saddest thing now is...the only over face that hasnt been champ now is Lashley and prolly CM Punk...thats all fans can get behind for a title push

[Guest DRH 502]

MMA is the future. Wrestling is the past. Wrestling will always have its core audience, but I don't think its ever gonna be as popular as it once was. I know MMA and Wrestling is apples and oranges...but the people who don't like wrestling all come to the consensus that they don't like it because its fake. MMA is real...see why the non fan would be quicker to go watch MMA than WWE?

 

I'll even go as far as saying dudes like Benoit and Regal and Finlay who continuously potato each other and shorten their careers with each hardway headbutt and stiff forearm are retarded. Go to any show, only smart marks and the occasional fan notice how stiff they are working. The rest are drunken rednecks who are gonna write it off as fake and make comments like "HE MISSED HIM BY A MILE" no matter how fucking hard he hits him. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Bret Hart...all guys who worked safe and will be remembered by your average fan alot longer than your Fit Finlays and your Regals.

 

And this is coming from a dude who loves Finlay and Regal.