Group Discussion!

[chirs3 0]

I'm not really a big fan of punishing people for no-shows and haiku, mainly because, as we all know, shit happens. Computers break. Family members do stuff. Your boss makes you work late. It's just a fact of life.

 

Sadly, this is not the only reason no-shows and rushjobs happen. I gather, from AIM conversations with various people here, that frequently it's just apathy. "Eh, didn't feel like it," or "Just not motivated".

 

So, the question: What will motivate you?

 

What can CC do for you, or give to you, that will make you guys want to write?

[the.weej 0]

I want a puppy!

 

-Z

[chirs3 0]

If you write a full match for Smarkdown, I will buy you a puppy.

[Sly 0]

Well... I was always unmotivated because I knew that I had absolutely no where to go on the card. I never broke midcard status.

 

*Shrug*

 

I sucked pretty bad, though.

[Golgo 13 0]

Nothing short of many, many sacrifices in my honor.

 

I think CC does all it can, but I'm just a malcontent who can't manage his time and hates sitting and writing for long stretches especially when the pressure is on.

 

I just prefer not putting stress on myself if I'm not feeling it like I had a while back, since it only leads to trouble. The problem is despite a fresher character and lesser gimmicky stipulations and locations, it's still rare that I can get going. Still, it's nothing to do with how things are being run.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Yeah, I'm not sure there's a lot anyone on CC can really do. If I feel like a lazy asshole, nothing's going to get me writing to be fair.

 

One idea to promote consistency would be, and in the spirit of everything I do I've stolen it from an indy fed, coming up with a lose ranking system for #1 Contendership to the World Title and possibly others. Basically, to qualify for a title shot, you have to accumulate three straight victories, aka 'points'. Each win earns you a point. If it's elimination multi-man stuff, each victory would I assume earn you one point. One defeat sends you back to 0 points though.

 

That'd give people a reason to show every show they possibly can, it'll make sure the title scene is competitive, you can build storylines around it, it'd stop people getting instant World Title storylines without noteable workload (which I was guilty of last title reign, of course) and most importantly of all, CHIKARA do it so it MUST be awesome.

[Angel_Grace_Blue 0]

To becoming motivations:

 

1. Let's have only two shows a month, lollerz

 

2. GIVE ME MY GODDAMN (OR GOTDAMN IF YOU ARE SAM JACKSON) PONY SHOT!

 

3. Lobster go-cart.

 

4. Double soup.

 

5. Five.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Make me World Champion. Or better yet, make Bruce World Champion. That will get people showing.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

I've been on a streak of rushjobs cause I'm still getting used to my new school schedule. Never had to wake up at 6 before, and most of my writing comes out of sleep time, which I can't really do anymore. I need to find a new way to make more time.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

 

How'd you manage that?

[King Cucaracha 0]

I've been on a streak of rushjobs cause I'm still getting used to my new school schedule. Never had to wake up at 6 before, and most of my writing comes out of sleep time, which I can't really do anymore. I need to find a new way to make more time.

 

Quit school. Worked for me.

 

Also, I think winning a PPV match should result in one of CC sending you $5 through Paypal or other such means. That's ten English pounds, gentlemen. Make a note.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Why would you want to gain 10 pounds? Fat.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

WC, junior high started at 9:30. I could wake up at 9:15 and make the bus.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

What the fuck? Where the hell do you live? Class started at 7:00 when I was in junior high.

[Angel_Grace_Blue 0]

It's always been around 8-ish for me.

 

Maybe Akira gets out late. I think I typically went something like 8-3:30 or maybes? lolz?

[Toxxic 0]

7.00? Christ. All my school started at 9am.

 

As for the 'straight wins' theory Landon, the problem is that we're working a competitive fed here rather than a worked one. So if it worked out that everyone was after the world title, everyone (well, some people) would want to be booked against the weakest, least-showing opponents so they could get a shot. I mean, if you'd just taken two wins on the trot, wouldn't you bitch about then facing Flesher? Also, you'd probably have more contenders than convenient title shots.

 

Another problem is that you'd probably have the same people getting the shots over and over again. It's no secret that Flesher's the best writer in the fed, and it's also no secret that me and Bruce show more that pretty much anyone else, and are therefore more likely to win matches than some. Mr Fourteen Successful Title Defences could have taken four World Title shots out of his Ultraviolent reign - not that I'm saying that Bruce as a World Title contender is necessarily a bad thing, but although you might slightly change the personnel you wouldn't make the World Title more accessible, it'd just be the same crowd on top over and over again. The likelihood would be that you'd have the same four people or so qualifying for a title shot every month or so.

 

If you're going to do something like that, then I reckon an order of contendership would be the way to do it. Under the World Champion there's a list of five names. For argument's sake (and pure argument's sake) I'll do a fairly arbitrary list here:

 

WORLD CHAMPION - Michael Stephens

 

#1 - Jimmy The Doom

#2 - Tom Flesher

#3 - JJ Johnson

#4 - Landon Maddix

#5 - Bruce Blank

 

Remember this list is PURELY ARBITRARY.

 

Now, by my system only people in this list would qualify for a title shot, and the following rules apply:

1) The person at #1 gets the first shot. If they lose the match, they drop to #5 and everyone moves up one.

2) If someone outside the list beats someone on the list, they take that person's place on the list.

3) If the person beaten occupied #1-4 then they drop to #5 and the person who was at #5 drops off the list. if they occupied #5, they just swap out.

4) A beaten World Champion drops to #1, so they essentially swap places with the #1 contender who just beat them. This means that they would qualify for a rematch unless someone else beats them first to take their spot.

 

I think this is a reasonably fair system, however it does suffer from the problem of not allowing the World Champion to engage in angles around the title (unless the person he's doing an angle with is good enough to stave off all competition).

[Smartly Pretty 0]

I like it.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

So I'm Number One Contender?

[chirs3 0]

I likes it. I likes it a lot.

 

Not entirely certain we can drum up 5 contenders for each title, though, without some overlap. If someone does appear on two lists, though, we could just ask which title they'd prefer to fight for.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

Shouldn't all of CC vote on it?

 

Oh. Right.

 

 

That wasn't even very funny. I'm not sure why I said that.

[King Cucaracha 0]

My idea's better because it has more armdrags.

 

But yeah, works for me.

[Toxxic 0]

Spike - by my system, if it had been implemented when you beat Drea then yes, you WOULD be Number One Contender.

 

It's not perfect by any means, but it means that while it's likely the people queuing up for a shot will be the better writers, it's not impossible for an 'outsider' to get in through a herculean effort, over a no-show, or similar. So theoretically, if the best writers are going to be in the top 5 and you beat one of them, it really will count for something.

 

Raynor - as for the other titles, I don't know about that. I had this system purely in mind for the World, really. It'd get kind of clunky to keep track of all the results affecting all titles.

 

One addition: If we were going to try this, it might be an idea to announce dates on which the title will be defended well in advance. Otherwise someone could be sitting in the number one slot for a few weeks without getting a shot, then get deposed and their replacement instantly gets a shot, which wouldn't seem fair.

[Ace309 0]

While I see the merits of the CHIKARA and Toxxic systems, I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

 

We have a problem that is, as far as I can tell, unfixable with regard to the distribution of Talent, Time, and Willingness to write. Because the TTW factor is spread unequally through the fed, we have to consider different divisions. That's a given. However, the way it breaks down, we have very few upper-crust writers, a teeming glut of upper-midlevel writers, a handful of rookies and a large smattering of enhancement talent that for whatever reason (lack of talent, lack of time, sheer unwillingness to write) can't advance.

 

(Also, you have one or two journeyman veterans who putter around the upper-midcard harassing cruiserweights and bothering the World Champion for their own amusement.)

 

Further, we lack mobility through the food chain. Bruce, who's at the top of the upper-midcarders (and as such is logically enough holding the International Title), got a World Title shot, but against Stephens, it's almost expected that he'll turn in a strong effort but get pointed. That's not a dig on Bruce, or Hawke, or Spike, or Jimmy, and the system assumes that Bruce, Hawke, Spike, and Jimmy will bring out the best in each other and lead to advancement. For whatever reason, that hasn't been happening, really, for anyone. Maybe it's just that your Stephenses are improving at a rate equal to that of the upper midcard, and that at the same time your Jay Hawkes are outpacing your Insane Luchadors.

 

That's the biggest issue for me - the stagnation of the title scenes. (Granted, I'm not helping.) I'm not sure what sort of suggestions to make. The default position in the past has been to give a dominant champion a kick in the can and send him back down to run storylines in the sub-main and the upper-midcard fights it out for the World Championship, but that leads to the Championship-as-Cheap-Whore that people complain so much about.

 

Just throwing stuff out there.

[Toxxic 0]

To be fair, when was the last time that the upper midcard fought for the World Title? I mean, the title was a cheap whore in 2004, but that was generally because someone would win and then either quit, so the next challenger won to a no-show, or lose their first defence and then quit (or in the case of Danny, lose it, win it back, lose it again and THEN quit).

 

Since I've been here the champions have been Danny, Va'aiga, Grappler, Duran, Danny again, Kibs, Danny AGAIN, Janus, Me, Johnny, Me again, Landon, Sacred, Me AGAIN, Ejiro, Johnny again, Danny AGAIN, Mags, Wes, Landon again, Me AGAIN.

 

Out of that list at the time they won the title, I'd say that the only upper-midcarders would have been me the first time, Johnny both times, possibly Landon the first time, and maybe Duran. Wes WAS a midcarder, but he won the Clusterfuck to get the shot which changes matters (besides, it was fucking Muzz, which means he was a main-event writer even if not character).

 

Zed basically set me up to win the title because he was sick of people passing it around and knew I'd at least show - I got my first title over a Janus no-show and Tom not writing a match that actually conformed to the rules. Johnny was a surprise package the first time and due to Ejiro disappearing had an easy run at it the second time over a no-show (not saying he wouldn't have won anyway, but we'll never know). Landon won the CFC the first time around which gave him a main-event 'boost', plus he was leading the stable dedicated to taking me down. And Duran was leader of the Unnamed after Va'aiga left plus had history with Grappler, so it made sense for him to take that shot.

 

The only time the World Title has gone from one upper-midcarder to another was when I dropped it to Johnny. To me the problem seems to vary between in 2004, all the World Title-calibre writers burning out and quitting just after they got there, and since then no-one new being able to break onto the scene.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

This reminds me of something Cross said the other night. Should Toxx retain against Jimmy, the Genesis main event will tie up both the CW and Tag team titles.

 

one of you will find a way to make this relevant.

[Toxxic 0]

Yes it will. I have no doubt that me and Landon will be defending either the show before Genesis or on Aftershoxx.

 

EDIT: Also, regarding the stagnation of the title scene and the 'World-Title-as-cheap-whore' scenario - I've got no real problems with that, as such. The problem in 2004 is that no-one was really trying for long enough to matter, and people kept winning over no-shows. If they'd taken it in competitive matches (there were a couple, granted) it wouldn't have been as bad.

 

The other thing is, while I'd like to see someone new with this belt I'm keeping warm, I'm damned if I'm going to job the fucker. This is a competitive match-writing fed, and to job the biggest prize seems... wrong. Besides which, it would also seem unfair to job to one person and not another.

[super_tigris 0]

Championship defenses should count for something, in all fairness. Also, there should be a main event caliber system worked out. If you're on a role, shots should only be dished out by winning a match against a high-caliber opponent. Even if it's by no-show.

 

Not to discredit Bruce, but if you've been facing challengers and walking on them, CC needs to be moving up that belt in importance on the card. That actually solidifies Bruce's reign, theoretically (it might not have lasted long, however).

 

I like the idea that Toxx has, but in theory, that list could become a source of complaints, and thus, I liked the other idea. Wins and such need to be counted for something, and a list could cause a muck among people who feel they deserve to be higher. But the win scenario needs to be a tire-style thing.

 

Based on win-loss records, and maybe a rankings system based on best writing skills by the Hall of Famers, someone should put together a tire list. Sort of like the card status, where the bottom ranked win-loss records combined with writing style are in the bottom and so on up. That list, however, needs to be made up by non-participants in the current fed, as it may create a some tension in whether or not the last is 'accurate'. Possibly three gtires, the first requires 3 wins over any same-tire opponent to move up in elevation to the next tire of opponents, requiring another three wins over the opponents on a list. Co-writes are negated, as are angles, unless said angle featured a competitive match (sort of rids some of the too anly-angles, i.e. me and Akira). A win over a tired opponent over you accounts for 2 wins on any tire below said win.

 

Basically, because I want to keep that idea, and have it make sense, I'll write out this on a technical level, for those dazed and confused (a movie I watched today...huh):

 

Championship Tire

-World Champion

-International Champion

-Cruiserweight Championship

-Hardcore Championship

-Tag Team Championships

 

Explanation and Rules:

Any champion is listed as the top level. If CC feels like a handful of wins attained by an unworthy writer, they can throw any title match at the person who has worked their way up. Of course, this is limited on the Tag Team and Cruiserweight belts. However, there is a way to balance that out. If two wrestlers are on a similar streak and have broken through the standards to earn a shot at those belts, then they can be paired together. Also, the belts should be ranked by importance. Obviously the World Championship means a lot, but if it's tied up in an angle or hasn't been defended (like when I held that Cruiserweight Belt and never actually defended it), then that belt should slide down on the list, which pushes the champions to defend and win their matches.

 

Champions can request a defense against any opponent at any time. However, they cannot dodge an opponent by requesting a match against another opponent of lower-tire status when theirs a challenger who has earned a title shot. In order for said request to make its way to fruition, the title must not be ranked in the bottom three. CC has complete control over defenses unless otherwise noted (like, if a champion clears an angle, a tournament, or a defense by them first).

 

If you're a multiple champion (holding more than any one specific belt, like Toxx), then you're required to defend your belt outside your angle (also like Toxx, who will be defending against Jimmy The Doom). You should not be able to request a match outside of the one CC sees fit unless otherwise noted (same scenario as in the above paragraph). This keeps titles active.

 

Belt rankings will be provided by active members in CC not currently holding a title. Defenses, number of successful defenses, angle status, holder, holder's record, average defense and PPV defense word count, and finally Defenses Based on Rules will be accounted for in rankings. Belt importance rankings will be listed monthly unless CC feels it necessary to change rankings mid-month. Defenses only count on a monthly basis, and do not carry over if the holder is changed during that month. If the champion remains the same, the defenses stat carries over. Number of successful defenses is specific to a belt holder, and only carry over if the holder wins the title belt back after a loss in a certain amount of time (thus, if a belt holder is incredibly talented, and they win that belt back, it could elevate the title's ranking). Angles automatically decrease the value of the belt, if the belt is tied up in a long, drawn out angle (like me, with the Cruiserweight title), the overall ranking can be effected at the discretion of the person rankees. The holder is a stat tied into the defense and number of successful defenses rankings - if a holder is Top Tire, the value of the title increases, if that person has held that belt more than once in their aloted time to re-attain the title they lost, the value goes up, and so on as I'm sure you get the idea. Average wordcount increases or decreases the value of the title, thus encouraging champions and challengers to increase their proportions thus ending a certain rush-job epidemic we're in (this stat should be accounted for as an x-factor for people being elevated to challenge for a belt). Defenses based on rules is simple - how many gimmick matches has it been in (negate the Hardcore title of regular, standard hardcore rules, those count as regular defenses). The title ranking should influence champions to hold onto the belt as well as push the challengers and people who want to hold the belt.

 

If a belt is ranked over a month as higher-status over other titles, it's given number one priority (for a kayfabe example, Taz and Rob Van Dam's reigns with the ECW TV Title from 1997 through to 1999 made it more important than the ECW World Title). That means the belt will main event that month's PPV unless CC has released a mid-month ranking if a series of random title changes were to occur or if a writer was to vacate the title. Higher caliber writers are given shots at the higher ranked belts. Writers who have some growing to do but have earned a title shot are given shots against the lower ranked titles as a way of protecting the higher ranked title (no offense to anyone found in this position).

 

Top Tire

-Former champions who've just lost their title(s)

-Former champions who've been active, winning, and participating

-Anyone with a competitive win over any other Top Tire writer (the other writer must have showed for this win to count)

-The number one ranked writer for that month

-Anyone CC feels deserves credit where credit is due

 

Explanation and Rules:

 

Maintaining the position in this tire can only happen if the writer has followed a number of expectations (these expectations can have exceptions, as CC should have the final word). Monthly, Top Tire writers must have at least competitively faced another Top Tire writer. No Top Tire writer can no-show more than two consecutive matches, with an allowed total of 3 to 5 no-shows during their stay in the Top Tire (3 over a month, 5 overall). A Top Tire writer can't lose any more than two times during a month, and if they're defeated competitively by an opponent for the second time in that month, the second win of course representing a non-Top Tire loss, will be replaced by the person who defeated them so long as they showed for the match and did not lose to an opponent in the same tire or a champion. If a loss by no-show occurs, a rematch can be issued by CC if they feel the winner was robbed of a potential spot in the Top Tire.

 

This tire should contain very few people, the minimum being the number of writers holding a title (if a stable holds a tag team title and inter-changes members defending that belt, the extra members do not count, the max number of writers pertaining to the tag belts are two). Not all former champions are gaurenteed a spot in this tire. CC can use discretion, however, former champions who've just lost the title should be shuffled into this tire, unless replaced by a new challenger. Any former champion who no-showed their loss without notice or reasoning should not be included in this tire.

 

The number one ranked writer by Longdogger_Pete in the monthly Historian's Rankings must have, prior to his ranking as the number one writer must have performed to the expectations of the current tire writers in the month prior to have earned his spot without CC approval, and must have CC approval if he did not make the necessary requirements in the month prior to his ranking.

 

Inner-tire angles between two Top Tire writers have to have an end result of at least one competitive match.

 

Top Tire title oppertunities are delivered based on whether they win their mandatory match against another Top Tire writer that month. The ranking system for titles above should be used to determine what title shots are given to who unless CC simply decides on their own, as well as the playoff-style mandatory match in the active month. If two writers are about equal, CC can book both of them as a tag team, or in the same title match.

 

At the end of the month, the top ranked title is defended against the top ranked Top Tire wrestler based on their activity and status inside the Top Tire (which is kind of easy - if you don't belong in a title match, you won't last). Although, as noted above, the top ranked title and said title holder has the right to request a match or an angle with another writer of their choosing, CC has the right to book them against the top ranked Top Tire opponent if they see fit. Angles must be cleared in advance near the beginning of the month, otherwise the top ranked title cannot dodge the top ranked Top Tire writer. If an ongoing angle is present, and the top writer is not present in it, they will be offered a shot down the road as compensation, regardless of whether or not they're in the Top Tire, retired, or inactive (giving oppertunity down the road for those who were once consistent top writers who're returning some sort of welcoming back). Title shots cannot be saved up. However, if the top writer, or anyone deserving of a title shot can't immediately take the title shot they deserve, CC can offer them one to another title (which helps people on limited schedules who might only be able to take a shot on a certain show while the title is booked to be defended on a show that they're only available for).

 

Middle Tire

-Former champions unable to qualify for Top Tire status

-Any writer with a winning record

-Returning writers who've been active in the past

-Anyone in an angle that doesn't pertain to a title (see below for more specific details)

 

Explinations and Rules:

 

Former champions unable to qualify for Top Tire status is self-explanitory.

 

To qualify for a spot in the Middle Tire, writers must have a winning record, that record is allowed to be combined with past characters, for those who're ringers (unless otherwise requested to be placed under the Middle Tire, for the ringers out there). You must have at least faced a writer in a competitive match (Ced Ordonez and Jason Von Dierch don't count, MAN!), and your winning record must be above 5 wins.

 

In order to move up in placement, you must consistently show for matches. Consistency is the main part, if you're consistent, your chances to move up increase. If you've no-showed without warning or a reason as to why, your consistency is set at a warning level, after a second consecutive no-show, you're pushed back to the bottom and forced to work your way back up - the point here being your rank in the Middle Tire. If you're more consistent while defeating others by competitive win in the Middle Tire, you'll be offered more shots against Top Tire writers, increasing your chances. In order to aspire to the Top Tire, you must have defeated a Top Tire writer by competitive decision (they have to have written, the rules for this situation are mentioned above) in order to replace them. They must also qualify by the standards of Top Tire or be placed their by CC.

 

There's no official ranking for Middle Tire writers outside of the monthly SWF Historian's Rankings. That list should more than likely do in terms of the Middle Tire, as not as much work to maintain the tire should be put in. This is where you work your way up.

 

By default, if you're in an angle not pertaining to a title, you'll be shuffled into the Middle Tire until your angle is concluded. You cannot attain a title shot in midst of an angle not pertaining to a title unless you've lost your title during your angle (by chance, however, that should happen less by the rules of the Top Tire and Championship Tire). This rule is kept only for the Middle Tire writers - you won't recieve an oppertunity to move up once you've been dead-locked into a feud. Top Tire writers feuding with Middle Tire writers cannot use a title shot during the feud unless otherwise allowed by CC.

 

The Lowest of Lows

-Debuting writers (or ringers requesting to be placed here)

-Coffin Fodder

 

Basically, if you're debuting, you're here. Either you face each other, Coffin Fodder, or Middle Tire opponents. This is where you grow. There are no set rules for this, as so few writers will probably be placed here, and the standards for moving up to the Middle Tire and Top Tire are listed above.

 

What I think this achieves:

-It assists those on a limited schedule

-It keeps in mind those who're willingly participating in the fed

-It forces the champions to defend more, take chances, write more, and try and elevate their status in the fed

-It forces non-champion writers to work their way up the card or be sent down to The Lowest of Lows with the rest of the fed coffin fodder as meat for the eager, young, newer writers

-It requires you to maintain your presence within the fed

-It helps eliminate Rush Job Artists from places they don't deserve to be

-It tracks stats

-It puts a perspective on the rankings, allowing those attempting to aspire to the top to see what they have to do both in terms of where they are in the fed as well as the way they must do it, as there are some standards being set

-It sets up a clear title defense system (alright, only mildly clear, but that's CC's spot regardless)

 

Of course, it's going to take some effort to get this thing running, plus, people have to like it. There are some small negatives, but that comes with the territory. Overall, this combines Landon's idea with Toxx's idea in a more in-depth way. It also makes some things clear, and people aren't just being placed into situations on the card randomly. I hope people read this, and I'd like to see it made to work. But who knows? This thing solves some of the problems I've had - the lack of motivation, maintaining my character and spot on the card. It definately helps to clarify things, I think, as well as tests people. With this, the defense system doesn't end the chances of having non-PPV title defenses, and I think it sort of pushes people. But I've mentioned all this. Hm...

[Smartly Pretty 0]

I'm fucking lost.

[Angel_Grace_Blue 0]

Here's an idea for stuff:

 

I think we should embrace more spur of the moment matches. It seems that a lot of matches are thrown together just for the sake of keeping people booked. I'd much rather work something out with someone than just get booked against some dude for no real reason. Then again, I'm a crazy giraffesaurus, lollerz.

 

Also: Cross's tire system needs some rims.

[Sly 0]

Too long, did not read. I think I got the jist of it though.