Gas Price Check...

[snuffbox 0]

That people are deluding themselves to happiness that a gallon of gas has now dropped a dime or two below four dollars is pretty sad.

 

And, I never understood how so many could believe that an invasion of an oil-rich Arabic country by a group led by oil-men would reduce prices. With full knowledge of the demand in this country for gasoline, there was only one direction that those prices were going to go.

[fazzle 0]

That people are deluding themselves to happiness that a gallon of gas has now dropped a dime or two below four dollars is pretty sad.

 

 

Well, no shit obviously we'd like it to be lower. But if I find it 30 cents cheaper than I normally pay, of course I'm gonna be glad.

 

[snuffbox 0]

That's the problem. We will accept terrible because it's not horrible.

[Guest Smues]

You're right, let's not accept it and get out on the streets and protest.

 

HELL NO WE WON'T GO (to the gas station, or anywhere because we won't have gas.)

HELL NO WE WON'T GO (to the gas station, or anywhere because we won't have gas.)

HELL NO WE WON'T GO (to the gas station, or anywhere because we won't have gas.)

HELL NO WE WON'T GO (to the gas station, or anywhere because we won't have gas.)

HELL NO WE WON'T GO (to the gas station, or anywhere because we won't have gas.)

 

[snuffbox 0]

Wow, you like totally got my point!

[Guest Smues]

I actually did. I just wanted to post HELL NO WE WON'T GO for some reason.

[Guest Smues]

Oh hey look gas dropped to $4.42. YEAH-UH

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

 

that was 30 years ago and we're still 10 to 15 years away..

 

the equivalent of 35 cents a gallon for hydrogen!

 

 

[EricMM 0]

Hydrogen is not a source of power it is a medium.

 

Where would the energy come from? Hydrogen is not ready yet, the transmission of hydrogen is as large an infrastructure problem as laying rail throughout this country...

 

meanwhile, there's power everywhere. I really think electric cars are the way to go.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

Make one that can charge quickly, drive at least 75 MPH, and have enough oomph to make a half-ton pickup worthwhile.

[EricMM 0]

Electric engines have more torque in general than gas powered engines.

 

They just have lower horsepower.

 

A halfton pickup is going the way of the buffalo my friend...

[Perfxion 0]

Electric cars are a perfectly fine idea for city daily drivers, people who do less that 30 miles a day. The most any electric car currently gets is 250 miles. That is great for city work or small trips. But it takes 6 to 8 hours to recharge the most advance one. The problem is that travel would be impossible, fleets would need double the cars to do the same work because of battery charging. It would take 2 days to get from Dallas to Houston.

 

I should also point out there is only one electric car currently on the market. It goes for 120,000 dollars. That would be the biggest hurdle. It cheaper to drive a F350 duelly with a shitty v10 than an electric car. And with the Chevy Volt, when they release that car( the GM's Chinese Democracy) then I will believe it exist. They been working on it for like 12 years, and it has 4 more years until mass production.

 

I will give you this, the entire postal system should be on electirc cars. Just about every post office is running routes of less than 100 miles. So it would easy to get those off of gas and save so much fuel on the road.

 

As for pick/ups, small and mid size pick ups are on full size car frames. IE: Ranger/S10. The 1500 series and up are on heavy duty frames. The torque of the engines can handle the load just fine. In fact there is not a problem with electric motors and heavy loads. I just don't think they have a motor that can currently replace a 5.3L gas or 7.3L diesel engine. Most people with pick ups use them for work issues. Most industries that are outdoors have pick ups for the ability to have a shop on wheels or transport of goods and freight. It is not going anywhere.

[Guest Smues]

A halfton pickup is going the way of the buffalo my friend...

 

Yeah, because they magically won't be needed or anything. I'm all for hybrids/electrics/whatever to reduce gas consumption, but you can't just scape bigger vehicles entirely. Me personally I don't need a large truck, but living in Alaska I'm not getting a small fuel efficient car because I'll get stuck 30 times in the winter, plus I tend not to fit very well in them. I drive my SUV because it fits me and other people nicely, and doesn't get stuck in the winter. People drive trucks for work and such, they aren't going away just because they get bad gas mileage.

[Dandy 0]

All vehicles will be going away. Everyone should just walk to work or wherever they are going, ship everything by train, and then we can have more trees that can be cut down.

[EricMM 0]

Most people with pick ups use them for work issues. Most industries that are outdoors have pick ups for the ability to have a shop on wheels or transport of goods and freight. It is not going anywhere.

Unless you can back that up I'm going to completely disagree with you on that. Most of the people who drive pickups are driving them because they want to, not because they need to, and certainly not because they need them for work. Obviously we will always need trucks for business...

 

People drive trucks for work and such, they aren't going away just because they get bad gas mileage.

...is true. After all, the buffalo aren't gone they're just in far fewer number than they used to be. But conversely, people feel way safer in 4WD and SUVs than they really are. People in Buffalo do own Corollas.

 

Electric cars are a perfectly fine idea for city daily drivers, people who do less that 30 miles a day. The most any electric car currently gets is 250 miles. That is great for city work or small trips. But it takes 6 to 8 hours to recharge the most advance one. The problem is that travel would be impossible, fleets would need double the cars to do the same work because of battery charging. It would take 2 days to get from Dallas to Houston.

This is of course true. Our batteries haven't *really* improved since the days of their invention. But there is hope. I mean, I don't know many people who drive more than 250 miles per day. I certainly know businesses who do. And for those people, maybe gas or hydrogen or biodiesel or something like it are the only solutions. But for most people? No way most people drive 250 miles EVERY DAY. If so, they're going to be completely fucked by $5 gas anyhow, so SOMETHING needs to change.

 

Like, for instance, your demand for 5L trucks for common use. Fuck it. Horsepower = fun, sexy; that sentiment is not in any way, shape, or form a consideration for me right now. Fuck it. You're burning an increasingly scarce and valubale and IMPORTANT resource for fun? Fuck it and you...

 

If people don't really think, REALLY realize that this country needs to start CONSERVING our oil, then they need to get their heads out of their respective asses.

[Hasbeen2 0]

3.67.

[Steviekick 0]

3.76

[Perfxion 0]

Unless you can back that up I'm going to completely disagree with you on that. Most of the people who drive pickups are driving them because they want to, not because they need to, and certainly not because they need them for work. Obviously we will always need trucks for business...

 

You mean to tell me that you never seen a locksmith, AAA, towing, Glass-smith, various repair, hauling services? I need to show you pictures of jobs that use full size vans, pick ups, and SUVs so you believe that this does happen? What lala land do you live in?

 

 

This is of course true. Our batteries haven't *really* improved since the days of their invention. But there is hope. I mean, I don't know many people who drive more than 250 miles per day. I certainly know businesses who do. And for those people, maybe gas or hydrogen or biodiesel or something like it are the only solutions. But for most people? No way most people drive 250 miles EVERY DAY. If so, they're going to be completely fucked by $5 gas anyhow, so SOMETHING needs to change.

 

Um, that does say the most advance, most are not quite there yet. Plus that is a full tank of gas in standard car. But travel does use that tank up real fast. And i know most people travel between 10 and 30 miles a day. So it isn't a problem. But electric cars are not a solution, they currently can not meet half of the demands of e10 cars. They can not meet the demands of fleet and businesses. They only meet the demand of 9 to 5ers who only do errands and work travel. Everyone else is pretty much fucked. Plus, if you live in an apartment, where are you going to plug your car into? Run an extension cable to the parking lot or across the street?

 

BTW: please explain to me the same point I said three times, how does one travel from Houston to Dallas in less than 2 days with an electric car?

 

Like, for instance, your demand for 5L trucks for common use. Fuck it. Horsepower = fun, sexy; that sentiment is not in any way, shape, or form a consideration for me right now. Fuck it. You're burning an increasingly scarce and valubale and IMPORTANT resource for fun? Fuck it and you...

 

I don't know if you have realized but 5.0 through 7.4L gas and diesel trucks have been in use since the fucking 50s. In 50 years they found out that the only way to make a long term usable truck was to put a large ass engine in with a beefed up transmission. I am not saying a love for big blocks but there IS a reason to it. The horsepower to haul is needed that 4bangers just don't have. There is a reason a focus does not have a trailer hitch to it, but a F150 does. There is also a reason a 4cyl stopped being put in trucks, they can't tow like the big boys.

 

Your beef with big blocks should be with muscle cars. Modern Shelby Mustang (Supercharged 5.4L), Challenger(6.1L SRT8), or Viper(8.1L SRT10) should get this kind of venom because all three are un-needed on city roads. People with these cars are burning it with no value except for power and looks. A person can get the same speed in a supra that you can get in a Challenger. Stop acting like people in Pick ups/SUVs are the ones causing this FAKE SCARCE of a resource since the demand has dropped worldwide with the price still going up. There is NO REASON for the "scarce" being an issue now than in last Nov when gas was $1.50 less a gallon with the same problems of not enough refineries for the ammount of crude that we have. So that fuck you, might be the wrong idea.

[NoCalMike 0]

United States - By Tom Doggett

 

 

WASHINGTON3 (Reuters) - While the U.S. oil industry want access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, American-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.

A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department.

 

The surge in exports appears to contradict the pleas from the U.S. oil industry and the Bush administration for Congress to open more offshore waters and Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.

 

"We can help alleviate shortages by drilling for oil and gas in our own country," President Bush told reporters this week. "We have got the opportunity to find more crude oil here at home."

 

"As a nation, we can have more control over our energy destiny by supplying more of the oil and natural gas we'll be consuming from resources here at home," Red Cavaney, president of the American Petroleum (otcbb: AMPE.OB - news - people ) Institute, said in a letter last week to U.S. lawmakers.

 

But environmentalists and other opponents to expanding drilling areas could seize on the record exports to argue Congress should not open more acres if U.S. refineries are churning crude oil into petroleum products that are sent out of the American market.

 

"It doesn't look good to say: 'We need more oil.' But then export the refined products that you're getting. It doesn't seem to be consistent," said Jim Presswood, energy lobbyist for the Natural Resources Defense Council.

 

 

[Dandy 0]

BTW: please explain to me the same point I said three times, how does one travel from Houston to Dallas in less than 2 days with an electric car?

Why would anyone drive between those two cities when you can WALK everywhere you need to go?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Okay Dandy, it's getting a little old. Knock it off, please.

[Dandy 0]

I've made a total of two posts about it in non-consecutive days. I understand that it is against the philosophy that you have, but I do share the opposite viewpoint of yourself and Eric. You guys have done your fair share of preaching in this thread, would you not agree?

[NoCalMike 0]

I don't think anyone in this thread, even Eric is arguing that a lot of business need the big gaz guzzling Trucks/SUVs.

 

Fine.

 

No one is griping about them. However, for every one of those legit needs, there is probably one to two people in suburbia buying similar vehicles for eye candy, people who have probably never placed more than a few items in that giant bed in the back of the truck, people who forgot that they do any "sporting" or "utility" driving. I would also say a large percentage are soccer moms who have been duped into the notion that these SUVs are safe because of their sheer size and have bought into the "Hey, as long as I am not the injured person on the road" sentiment when it comes to a car accident situation. Or even better the "This is America JACK, I can have it because I want it and no enviornmentalist is going to tell me otherwise" attitude

[Guest Vitamin X]

I've made a total of two posts about it in non-consecutive days. I understand that it is against the philosophy that you have, but I do share the opposite viewpoint of yourself and Eric. You guys have done your fair share of preaching in this thread, would you not agree?

 

I don't see exactly what this "opposite viewpoint" is. I, for the most part, agree that we can't just do away with cars, but with more carefully considered urban planning and some attitude changes in transportation amongst Americans we can hope to deal with some of the gas crunch in some ways. I am not trying to come across as preachy nor am I saying everyone here has the option to walk and bike everywhere. I've explained this point to you and several others many times, but because I don't want to drive a car because it's unnecessary in my situation (hell even Eric at least has some junker Corolla with 100k miles on it), I'm on "that thar side over thar". Come on.

 

All I'm asking you is to knock off the snarky comments that don't contribute to any sort of discussion and aren't funny. Thanks.

[Dandy 0]

The problem with urban planning is that it neglects rural planning. Rural is as bad, if not worse, as urban area when it comes to convenience within a small area of driving, walking, biking, mass transit, etc. My comments weren't directed as much at you as they were Eric, who has taken an extreme stance toward anything that hurts a tree. It is widely impractical for the nation to stop using vehicles for shipping, work, getting to work, etc. Not everyone lives in a place where they can find their job, kids' school, etc. within a favorable distance. Some of you guys live in big cities or close to big cities where there is a lot more options. While I don't live in a small town, it is short on high-paying jobs. My stance is there is no simple answer, yet Eric-and you to a lesser degree-don't realize that the majority of people out there don't have the option of driving less.

 

I understand you said that planning and developing better mass transit would help. I agree with you. But how will the towns pay for this? How will the rural areas come up with this? What about all of the little unincorporated towns that sit beside each other, and it takes 45 minutes just to get to a Walmart? It's just not practical, so I laugh at those who generalize the answers.

 

Leo, there have been many snarky comments in this thread and this folder. I would venture a guess that you have made some yourself.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I think I must've missed where Eric mentioned that rural communities need to give up on their vehicles in general. I totally agree with your stance on rural planning, but it's one of the drawbacks of living in that area, in my opinion. However, the issue with urban planning- and to an extent, suburban planning- is that most of the people in this country, and globally, live in cities and the worldwide movement is moving into the cities so the energy solutions that have to be looked at have to address the urban transportation conditions such as traffic/congestion and the massive amounts of fuel consumed in those communities, a lot of it being burned while sitting around in traffic. Having grown up in Los Angeles and living for a while in Miami before moving here, I am very, very familiar with that experience and am going to loathe repeating it when I visit Atlanta in early September this year.

 

That said, I believe it would benefit rural transportation immensely once the bigger issue that needs work and can have some solutions- that being urban transportation- would come into play. I'll definitely agree with you that even a light rail system is ridiculous for these folks who live far, far out from each other. Hell, I wrote an essay a few semesters ago in one of my communications classes playing devil's advocate in how Walmart benefits rural communities because of the way the local infrastructure and economy is set up in those areas. Suffice to say, my teacher is one of these pretty liberal hippie chicks, whose mother's store in a small, relatively rural area was forced to shut down because of Walmart. Whoops. But anyways, I digress..

[EricMM 0]

More to the point, everyone keeps arguing to me about how "we can't cange [this] because it would be too hard"

 

Well shit, that's great. But things are going to change whether you like it or not. We HAVE to change our driving AND our energy habits or else our children are going to hate us, and our grandchildren are REALLY going to hate us. I'm not making this up.

 

I have yet to hear one good reason why we should continue business as usual.

 

Bad reasons:

It's too expensive.

It's too hard.

I don't want to.

[Perfxion 0]

1: Its a fake energy crisis that started in March that was NOT a problem a week before. There isn't a massive oil shortage. There is a massive price gauge going on worldwide. How could gas magically go up 80 dollars a barrel when NONE of these "problems" were even out there in December. We are in the top 4 in oil, top country in coal, top 3 with natural gas, and could off shore to sure up the problems coming from the middle east. But we are getting screwed by big oil, OPEC, the gov, lack of refineries, tree huggers, and that we are not allowed to drill off shore 150 miles from the Cali cost, but China is currently drilling 60 miles from the coast.

 

2: Some cites/counties/greater metro areas would need to spend trillions of dollars to put in a mass transit system. Who wants to flip THAT bill? I don't want to spend 50% of my check going to local taxes just so a train or subway can be built and would then be 15 to 20 years before it is of full use for me. Plus how can you build underground(since the street level is packed) in an area that is a swamp that floods easily?

 

3: Some alt fuels are just not ready for business. Electric cars are not going to help any delivery system. hybrids and e85 still use fossil fuels so are they really that different or just "use less to help".

 

Maybe I would believe everyone on alt fuels if I haven't been reading about them for 20 years now. Electric cars are over 100 years old. By now they should make a fucking battery that can charge as fast a Cell phone for "slow charge" and make one that can charge in 5 mins "fast charge". e85 has been around for 10 years, yet even today they still haven't made a fucking car on the road that is built for it because NOBODY really carries a pump with it. How many "billions" are spent on "R&D" yet nobody seems to see anything develop. Or, better yet, there might be a reason for the lack of new technology. There isn't something out there that will get the mileage of the older idea of gas+air+spark for horsepower.

[EricMM 0]

1: Its a fake energy crisis that started in March that was NOT a problem a week before. There isn't a massive oil shortage. There is a massive price gauge going on worldwide. How could gas magically go up 80 dollars a barrel when NONE of these "problems" were even out there in December. We are in the top 4 in oil, top country in coal, top 3 with natural gas, and could off shore to sure up the problems coming from the middle east. But we are getting screwed by big oil, OPEC, the gov, lack of refineries, tree huggers, and that we are not allowed to drill off shore 150 miles from the Cali cost, but China is currently drilling 60 miles from the coast.

Get your head out of the fucking sand, numbnuts, and do some very basic research on peak oil.

 

For crying out loud.

 

Then, check out G-L-O-B-A-L W-A-R-M-I-N-G.

 

 

[Guest]

Cool it.