NBA Roundtable Discussion

[Boon 0]

Celtics and Wolves restart KG talk.

 

According to WEEI, the deal is Jefferson, Ratliff, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and a future draft pick for KG.

[Dangerous A 0]

I think with Ray Allen now on board and Paul Pierce still in the mix, KG has softened his stance on not wanting to go to Beantown. This has a good chance of happening now.

[Ripper 0]

Well, fuck talks. There are multiple websites saying its a done deal.

 

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I believe the Garnett deal is done in principle, but they are ironing out whether the last piece will be Gomes or a first round pick. An extension for Garnett is probably in the works as well. Foxsports is saying that there could be an official announcement as early as today.

 

Love this move for the Celtics. They've totally mortgaged the future but they now have a legit shot in the next year or two of competing for a title. They have no bench to speak of, but with three All-Stars on the team it might not matter.

[Boon 0]

I assume the starting five will be filled out with Rondo and Perkins, leaving hopefully Gomes and a healthy Allen to start the bench. Not a bad seven.

[Ripper 0]

I bet releasing Allan Ray doesn't seem like such a great move now though.

 

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I must be the only guy who thinks Boston is giving up too much for a guy who up til now said he didn't want to play in Boston.

[Ripper 0]

I think jefferson is the only player worth a damn in the bunch when it comes to the Celtics. Gerald Green is a guy that can shoot but I am pretty sure he has no idea how to play team basketball...still.

 

They were going to cut Telfair anyway, and they were going to trade Ratliff. So basically they are giving up Jefferson for KG (hopefully they won't be dumb enough to give up Gomes)

 

I still say thats kinda iffy, but you can compete now with this team and you have two guys who want to shoot the ball in the clutch so that KG isn't afraid to pass out.

 

Its not a Horrible deal I guess. I wouldn't have done it, because I think Jefferson is something to build around if you get a defensive Center, but hey, I am not a Celtic fan.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I must be the only guy who thinks Boston is giving up too much for a guy who up til now said he didn't want to play in Boston.

 

He apparently changed that stance after they acquired Ray Allen. I've read that he is willing to sign an extension if he is dealt to Boston.

 

They really aren't giving up that much. Al Jefferson is a great player with huge upside, but he's not Kevin Garnett. He may be at that level some day but Boston has to go for it now with the team they've assembled. The rest of the pieces are just filler anyways. No one seemed that interested in the Ratliff contract.

 

If things go to hell those contracts all expire in the next few years. They'll just be back to where they were today. I don't really see any downside from Boston's perspective.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Conversely, I think Minnesota is building a really good club for the future.

[Ripper 0]

Offensively and rebouding wise, Jefferson doesn't give you that much below Garnett right now. Garnett is a much better defender though. Only at like twice the cost as Jefferson. Resigning KG will be like 5 years 125 million. Maxing out Jefferson would have been like 5 years 80 million. 9 million extra cap space every year. You can sign a close to allstar for that kinda money.

 

But if they can make it to the finals, then I will be happily proven wrong but that is alot of freakin money.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/ce...s/celtics_blog/

 

As the trade currently stands, the Celtics would send Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves for Garnett.

 

Al Jefferson is not included in the deal at the moment.

 

The Boston Globe must be misinformed. There is no way this is true.

 

EDIT: Story is false. Springer was mistaken.

[LivingLegendGaryColeman 0]

I bet releasing Allan Ray doesn't seem like such a great move now though.

 

I don't think they wanted to just release Allan Ray, but he got a contract in Italy worth over double what the Celtics would pay him.

 

Another key bench player should be Leon Powe too. He can add some depth to the team. I am warming on the idea some (my teams are Suns and Celtics), I'd hate to see Gomes go, but the deal where they would still keep Jefferson is kind of interesting.

[Boon 0]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/ce...s/celtics_blog/

 

As the trade currently stands, the Celtics would send Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves for Garnett.

 

Al Jefferson is not included in the deal at the moment.

 

The Boston Globe must be misinformed. There is no way this is true.

That would be beyond insane.

[Ripper 0]

No way Minnesota takes that deal without Jefferson.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

And they won't. Shira Springer is already backtracking on the earlier article. Jefferson is absolutely in the mix.

 

And Boon, did I notice that you post over at SOSH, too?

[Ripper 0]

I also would like to take this time to restate that Glen Davis is going to be a solid pro, and I think the Celtics got a steal with him. Hopefully with this trade he can get some backup front court minutes.

[Guest]

If true, good deal for Boston, but there is no way that they'll win a title with a non-existant bench.

 

They're paper champs. Just like the Lakers when we brought in Payton and Malone, and the Suns right now. Good on paper, good during the season, not good when they get into a deep series and have to use all of their players.

 

It's still a good deal because they have to show their fans that they're willing to compete.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Lakers won three straight titles with two superstars and 10 scrubs. Phoenix has been a great team with no bench to speak of. I think Boston will be okay.

[Ripper 0]

Um...that laker team went to the finals and the Suns made two west finals in a row. and there was alot of BS this year.

 

I don't really think those are good examples.

 

besides. Teams use fewer players in the playoffs than the regular season. Except Mike D'Antoni who refuses to use his bench. Ever.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

In the East, they should contend.

[Guest]

The Lakers won three straight titles with two superstars and 10 scrubs. Phoenix has been a great team with no bench to speak of. I think Boston will be okay.

Yeah, Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry and Rick Fox were scrubs... We still had a bench, look at the 03-04 year and see what happened when we didn't. Injury to Malone, poof, Medvedenko in the lineup, series over.

 

And both the 03-04 Lakers and Suns are paper champs. They didn't get rings. Western Conference Finals appearances don't mean shit when you've got nothing to show for it. What's the Celtics bench going to be after they make this deal. They need Pierce, Allen and Garnett to play 82 games to even compete. It's not going to happen. The title winning teams of the past couple of years show that depth is the most important thing, I don't think I need to point that out. You can have all the star players you want, with no depth, you lose in the playoffs.

 

The 03-04 Laker team was DRASTICALLY different than the title winning teams, that's why I mentioned them. You can look at it for yourself. Our 2nd best bench player was Slava Medvedenko, enough said.

 

The Celtics could win the East, but what happens when they go up against San Antonio. Cleveland needed contributions from everyone to get there and they couldn't handle the heat in the Finals. The Celtics get blitzed.

[Ripper 0]

But you said those teams would have troubles getting deep in the playoffs when you named teams that got deep in the playoffs.

 

03-04 the Lakers ran into a team that realistically could have been the all defensive starting team. All of them were great defenders. Plus, how deep was that detroit team? Lindsay Hunter and Corless Williamson. Thats pretty much the bench they used.

 

I understand what you are saying about the Celts (Who would have the starting five, Gomes, Wally, Tony Allen, Glen Davis on the bench BTW) needing depth and all, but I think you used some horrid examples to back that point up.

[LivingLegendGaryColeman 0]

Yahoo Sports and RotoWire is reporting the non-Jefferson deal as the likely scenario also. That deal would be crazy, as I think they would have a starting lineup of Rondo-Ray Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Jefferson. That would be pretty crazy. They would definetely be one of the top in the East no question. I think they just need a stronger coach cause I have high hopes for Powe, Big Baby, a healthy Tony Allen and Perkins on the bench. Scalabrine can be decent in doses (when he doesn't try to think he is the leader).

[Boon 0]

If the deal goes through w/o Jefferson, that would be the greatest coup in NBA history. That being said- I highly doubt it will.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Done deal according to the AP

 

And as far as a bench goes, there are enough veterans out there to round out a roster. You have guys like Olowokandi, Sweetney, Webber, Brevin Knight, Varejao, Jarvis Hayes, Dererk Anderson, etc. Sure, none of them are particularly good but you just need to be able to get some minutes out of them.

 

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In a little over a month, Danny Ainge turned the no. 5 pick, Al Jefferson and a bunch of filler into Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. In the process, they probably went from the worst team in the league to one of the favorites in the East. Got to give him a lot of credit for pulling this off.

 

The rumored extension is 3 years, $60 million. That is not confirmed, though.

[Guest]

But you said those teams would have troubles getting deep in the playoffs when you named teams that got deep in the playoffs.

 

03-04 the Lakers ran into a team that realistically could have been the all defensive starting team. All of them were great defenders. Plus, how deep was that detroit team? Lindsay Hunter and Corless Williamson. Thats pretty much the bench they used.

 

I understand what you are saying about the Celts (Who would have the starting five, Gomes, Wally, Tony Allen, Glen Davis on the bench BTW) needing depth and all, but I think you used some horrid examples to back that point up.

I didn't say "deep in the playoffs." Look again.

 

The Celtics would walk to the Conference Finals in all likelihood, that wasn't my point. I think my definition of success is different than most others. Just being good enough to get to the Finals doesn't cut it for me.

 

Plus, how deep was that detroit team? Lindsay Hunter and Corless Williamson. Thats pretty much the bench they used.

Mehmet Okur, Mike James... We got torn up because they were so good defensively and because they didn't have scrubs to put out there and give us a chance to make a run. Our bench blew balls and we didn't belong there in the first place. We got the biggest luck out shot in the history of the game against the Spurs, and Minnesota was just Minnesota. Their bench was even worse.

 

The Celtics will be good and contenders in the East, but that doesn't fit my standards of excellence when you go out and acquire one of the best shooters in the game and a top 5 player. I just expect more than most people and my standards are higher. Great deals and all, but they're not going to have them compete for the prize. If they go out and get some depth players that can eat minutes, maybe I'll feel differently, but the minute stealers they have just won't cut it. As it is right now, they better pray for 82 game seasons out of their big 3.

 

I'd rather see the Celtics win the East than the pretenders that are out there right now, I'll say that much. At least they would make the Finals worth watching.

[Cartman 0]

The main point of this trade:

 

Sell more tickets and jack up the prices

[Boon 0]

Yeah, not like adding a top 5 player makes this team a contender or anything. This is just like Dominique Wilkins.