2006-07 MLB Offseason Thread

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Breaking news. Gabe Kapler is going to retire.

 

 

Boras is clearly not interested in letting Dice sign with Boston because he wants to disrupt the whole posting system so that he can put his Japanese client(s) on the free agent market with several teams bidding for him instead of 1 team exclusively bidding on him. Boras doesn't see a penny of the 51.1 Million that goes to Dice's team in Japan as it is this year.

 

The Sox could offer $16 mil per year over 6 years and I bet he would still reject it despite what Dice wants. It's all about Scott Boras when it comes to Scott Boras.

 

I believe the Yankees comment by Geniousmoment was only because it would be bad for their direct competition if they got this guy. Not because the Yankees are supposedly ruining baseball by spending insane money on their payroll. If anything the Yankees are helping since it's making those cheap ass "small market" teams' Owners spend some money for a change.

 

That was an excellent post, as you've hit on Boras' motivations almost perfectly. The posting system, like the draft, puts downward pressure on contract expectations for players. It's never been about what Matsuzaka wants, as he has clearly stated he wants to be in America and is ready to accept any fair offer. Holding out is what's in the best interest for Boras. He can't accept that he lacks all leverage in these negotiations. Matsuzaka is not a free agent, and he can't be expected to be paid like one. Look at the contracts given to Santana, Carpenter, Oswalt, etc. These should set the baseline for his contract, not the open market forces that drove Gil Meche's deal.

 

Boras is walking a fine line with these negotiations. Blowing this deal could have huge ramifications on his presence in Japan. If he gets blamed for blowing this deal, he can kiss his Japanese clients goodbye. Furthermore, he's going to seriously hamper his place in baseball if guns down a deal that was negotiated in "good faith" by the Red Sox.

[vivalaultra 0]

Chris Reitsma and Marcus Giles have been non-tendered by the Bravos. Reitsma's not surprising at all, but Giles? Yeesh...they could've traded him to the Padres and at least got SOMETHING back in return.

[bob_barron 0]

They tried to trade Giles and couldn't get anything for him.

 

And good riddance to Reitsma. What an awful pitcher

[Cartman 0]

I would like to see Giles here in Boston over the Midget Pedroia anyday.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Does anybody know anything about that Asencio cat? I checked his stats on 'Tha Cube and baseballreference, and they looked pretty shitty...

 

And I'm pretty sure the only reason Hirsh was traded was because, supposedly, when he got called up last year, he went around the clubhouse acting like a rock star.

 

I think Asencio's a pretty average pitcher who's already got a Tommy John Surgery under his belt. Not great stats at least. Don't know anything about his stuff. The worst part of this is going to the Juice Box and hearing:

 

"Now starting for your Houston Astros, Wandy Rodriguez!"

 

They'd better sign Jennings to an extension.

[Guest Smues]

Glad to see Reitsma gone, but Giles. I don't care for that move.

[naiwf 0]

I'm hoping the Mets pick up Giles because I'm not confident in Valentin being even half as good as he was this past season, and Anderson Hernandez is Rey Ordonez bad at the plate.

[Guest "Go, Mordecai!"]

I'd rather have Giles than DeRosa. Oh man, that deal is looking bad now, isn't it?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The SWB Red Barons are now the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees. May god help us all.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Naturally, this will be one second baseman the Cubs don't pursue.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I would like to see Giles here in Boston over the Midget Pedroia anyday.

 

Yeah, screw him for being so short and stuff. Who cares if he was the 11th best prospect in baseball last year, we don't need any short stacks clogging up our manly infield. Let's pay twenty times the salary for a guy who will probably put up a similar production. At least Giles carries himself like a man.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'd rather have Giles than DeRosa. Oh man, that deal is looking bad now, isn't it?

Do you honestly think the presence of 12 second basemen on the roster would stop the Cubs from acquiring another one?

[Guest "Go, Mordecai!"]

The SWB Red Barons are now the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees. May god help us all.

The Scrankees?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I like Marcus Giles as a player, but take a look at his numbers the past four seasons. It's not a good trend at all. He's still young, which is a good sign, but it makes you wonder what's really going on here.

 

2003: .316 .390 .526

2004: .311 .378 .443

2005: .291 .365 .461

2006: .262 .341 .387

 

His BA, OBP and SLG have all dropped in each of the past four seasons.

[Cartman 0]

Maybe if Pedroia could hit the ball out of the infield and didnt look like he was swinging with ALL his mght every pitch. I know its only his first MLB experience but he was awful at the plate and according to current prospect lists he isnt in the top 50.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Maybe if Pedroia could hit the ball out of the infield and didnt look like he was swinging with ALL his mght every pitch. I know its only his first MLB experience but he was awful at the plate and according to current prospect lists he isnt in the top 50.

You can't give up on rookies that quickly. I've seen Pedroia play often live and he has real talent. Tremendous plate discipline. He won't hit for much power, but all the Sox need is someone to get on base for the big bats.

[Guest NYankees]

Like others pointed out, Bagwell's numbers are clearly superior to the borderline candidates. Bagwell is 44th all time in OBP, 35th in slugging, 24th in OPS, 54th in runs, 52nd in doubles, 34th in OPS+, 33rd in runs created. Contrast that with Fred McGriff, who's not top 100 in OBP, 75th in slugging and OPS, etc. And McGriff's not a bad candidate himself. On top of that, Bagwell played in a tough hitters environment, was speedy and had a decent glove. Unless steroid acquisations emerge, I can't see leaving him out.

 

NYankees, of the players you mentioned, Rafael Palmeiro has HOF numbers. He'll be excluded because of other factors. The rest besides McGriff had OBPs 50 points lower than Bagwell. They're not comparable.

 

 

Ok, lets open the door for Mattingly, McGwire, Palmeiro, Dawson, Jim Rice, Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff and Andres Gallarga.

 

Lets not also forget that it is beyond Obvious that Bagwell was on the Juice. I wonder how many homeruns 1983-1989 SKINNY Mattingly could have hit if his prime years were from 1993-1999 instead.

 

Also, lets not act that Palmeiro and McGwire cant get in but give Bagwell a free pass.

[Cartman 0]

Maybe if Pedroia could hit the ball out of the infield and didnt look like he was swinging with ALL his mght every pitch. I know its only his first MLB experience but he was awful at the plate and according to current prospect lists he isnt in the top 50.

You can't give up on rookies that quickly. I've seen Pedroia play often live and he has real talent. Tremendous plate discipline. He won't hit for much power, but all the Sox need is someone to get on base for the big bats.

I understand, I saw him live quite a bit too living in Pawtucket and all I just think he was trying way too hard.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Maybe if Pedroia could hit the ball out of the infield and didnt look like he was swinging with ALL his mght every pitch.

If this bothers you, maybe Giles isn't the guy you want, either.

[v.2 0]

Lets not also forget that it is beyond Obvious that Bagwell was on the Juice. I wonder how many homeruns 1983-1989 SKINNY Mattingly could have hit if his prime years were from 1993-1999 instead.

 

The pitchers hadn't caught up to the curve yet, so it would have been a lot less.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Like others pointed out, Bagwell's numbers are clearly superior to the borderline candidates. Bagwell is 44th all time in OBP, 35th in slugging, 24th in OPS, 54th in runs, 52nd in doubles, 34th in OPS+, 33rd in runs created. Contrast that with Fred McGriff, who's not top 100 in OBP, 75th in slugging and OPS, etc. And McGriff's not a bad candidate himself. On top of that, Bagwell played in a tough hitters environment, was speedy and had a decent glove. Unless steroid acquisations emerge, I can't see leaving him out.

 

NYankees, of the players you mentioned, Rafael Palmeiro has HOF numbers. He'll be excluded because of other factors. The rest besides McGriff had OBPs 50 points lower than Bagwell. They're not comparable.

 

 

Ok, lets open the door for Mattingly, McGwire, Palmeiro, Dawson, Jim Rice, Dale Murphy, Fred McGriff and Andres Gallarga.

 

Lets not also forget that it is beyond Obvious that Bagwell was on the Juice. I wonder how many homeruns 1983-1989 SKINNY Mattingly could have hit if his prime years were from 1993-1999 instead.

 

Also, lets not act that Palmeiro and McGwire cant get in but give Bagwell a free pass.

Of those players you mentioned, only McGwire was in Bagwell's league as an impact player. You can't namedrop players and pretend they're comparable. As for the steroid issue, where is the evidence? It's one thing to accuse McGwire, who waifed before congress, or Rafael Palmeiro, who failed a drug test. Is there ANYTHING to accuse Bagwell besides performance? There isn't even any circumstancial evidence.

[Guest NYankees]

Sorry but Bagwell wasn't an Impact player. The guy is known for being a choke artist in the playoffs. Almost 40 games played and he has a batting average of .220 2 homeruns and like 10 rbi's. Mattingly was screwed out of the MVP award in 1986 which would have given him consecutive MVP's. The guy was one of the best players in baseball during the 1980's and is one of the best defensive first basemen of all time. He was the best first baseman in baseball from 1984-1988. Bagwell was only the best player at his posistion for one year 1994.

 

If we are going to start saying McGwire is guilty becasue of his testimony for Congress we can say Bagwell is guilty for how juiced up he was and how is body broke down the past several years. If Bagwell gets in, McGriff better get in. Fred was more of an impact player than Bagwell ever was. The McGriff trade was a big factor towards the Braves catching up and surpassing the Giants for the NL West pennant in 1993.

 

Rice should get in if Bagwell does because he has just as good numbers and he played during the 1970's and early 1980's. The same goes for Dawson. They would both be 600hr players if they played during this era. Bagwell is just a choke artists Juice Head. Sorry but I am not going to support someone to get into the Hall of Fame when they were injecting needles up their ass everyday for a decade plus.

[the max 0]

Sorry but Bagwell wasn't an Impact player. The guy is known for being a choke artist in the playoffs. Almost 40 games played and he has a batting average of .220 2 homeruns and like 10 rbi's. Mattingly was screwed out of the MVP award in 1986 which would have given him consecutive MVP's. The guy was one of the best players in baseball during the 1980's and is one of the best defensive first basemen of all time. He was the best first baseman in baseball from 1984-1988. Bagwell was only the best player at his posistion for one year 1994.

 

If we are going to start saying McGwire is guilty becasue of his testimony for Congress we can say Bagwell is guilty for how juiced up he was and how is body broke down the past several years. If Bagwell gets in, McGriff better get in. Fred was more of an impact player than Bagwell ever was. The McGriff trade was a big factor towards the Braves catching up and surpassing the Giants for the NL West pennant in 1993.

 

Rice should get in if Bagwell does because he has just as good numbers and he played during the 1970's and early 1980's. The same goes for Dawson. They would both be 600hr players if they played during this era. Bagwell is just a choke artists Juice Head. Sorry but I am not going to support someone to get into the Hall of Fame when they were injecting needles up their ass everyday for a decade plus.

 

Again, where is the evidence that Bagwell was on the gas? That his body fell apart? Injuries or AGING?

[CanadianChris 0]

If Bagwell gets in, McGriff better get in.

Bagwell has better numbers.

 

Rice should get in if Bagwell does because he has just as good numbers

No, he doesn't.

 

The same goes for Dawson.

He doesn't either.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Sorry but Bagwell wasn't an Impact player. The guy is known for being a choke artist in the playoffs. Almost 40 games played and he has a batting average of .220 2 homeruns and like 10 rbi's. Mattingly was screwed out of the MVP award in 1986 which would have given him consecutive MVP's. The guy was one of the best players in baseball during the 1980's and is one of the best defensive first basemen of all time. He was the best first baseman in baseball from 1984-1988. Bagwell was only the best player at his posistion for one year 1994.

Mattingly was shit outside of those years. Bagwell was excellent for about 15 years. Not that numbers will influence you, but Bagwell's OPS+ of 150 is better than Mattingly's mark of 127, Bagwell has 388 win shares, 680 Runs Created Above Average, and an Offensive Winning Percentage of .704. The only first basemen clearly better at the plate than Bagwell in the '90s were Frank Thomas and Mark McGwire, both of whom weren't very mobile. And the three of them would have outranked Mattingly had they played in the 1980s.

 

If we are going to start saying McGwire is guilty becasue of his testimony for Congress we can say Bagwell is guilty for how juiced up he was and how is body broke down the past several years. If Bagwell gets in, McGriff better get in. Fred was more of an impact player than Bagwell ever was. The McGriff trade was a big factor towards the Braves catching up and surpassing the Giants for the NL West pennant in 1993.

 

Perhaps you're right. After all, no player ever broke down physically in his late 30s. Except of course Babe Ruth. And famously Lou Gehrig. And injuries got to Mickey Mantle. And Joe Dimaggio broke down in his mid 30s. Must have been the steroids. As for impact, Bagwell played regularly for five playoff teams. Bagwell's best month was September/October, where he hit .314 during his career. McGriff? If push came to shove, I'd put him in too.

 

Rice should get in if Bagwell does because he has just as good numbers and he played during the 1970's and early 1980's. The same goes for Dawson. They would both be 600hr players if they played during this era. Bagwell is just a choke artists Juice Head. Sorry but I am not going to support someone to get into the Hall of Fame when they were injecting needles up their ass everyday for a decade plus.

 

Let's see. Bagwell's OBP was over 50 points higher and his slugging percentage was 30 points higher. Plus he ran better. Bagwell stole 140 more bases. Rice grounded into 90 more double plays. Differences in eras? The average OBP in Bagwell's context was one point higher, and the average slugging percentage was 14 points higher. Bagwell exceeds the differences. Remember that despite the difference in eras, Rice played in a ballpark that inflated offense by 10%. Just out of curosity, what numbers of Rice's are just as good?

 

And again, WHAT PROOF?

[Cartman 0]

Maybe if Pedroia could hit the ball out of the infield and didnt look like he was swinging with ALL his mght every pitch.

If this bothers you, maybe Giles isn't the guy you want, either.

I haven't seen much of him I just go by the numbers with him so if that's the case I retract my previous statement

[Guest NYankees]

Al, you fail to take into account that the players played in ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ERAS. Look at the league era and runs scored during the 1970's to the mid 80's and compare it to the Mid to late 90's to the early 00's. You cant compare the two.

 

Rice had 380 career homeruns and 1450 rbi's and Dawson had 430 Homeruns and 1600 rbi's and neither one of them played during the Steroid era. If you let Bagwell into the Hall of Fame you are going to have to let in 5-10 other players as well.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Al, you fail to take into account that the players played in ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ERAS. Look at the league era and runs scored during the 1970's to the mid 80's and compare it to the Mid to late 90's to the early 00's. You cant compare the two.

I did. Remember these averages are adjusted for home park.

 

Bagwell's Era: .267/.337/.420

Rice's Era: .270/.336/.406

 

Yes, you have '70s/'80s vs. '90s/'00s. You also have American League vs. National League and Fenway Park vs. the Astrodome.

 

Rice had 380 career homeruns and 1450 rbi's and Dawson had 430 Homeruns and 1600 rbi's and neither one of them played during the Steroid era. If you let Bagwell into the Hall of Fame you are going to have to let in 5-10 other players as well.

 

First, players of those eras took steroids. Tom House admitted so. Second, home runs and RBIs are not the only way to judge players. Jeff Bagwell drew over 600 more walks than either player. That is a HUGE, significant factor. Again you mention the slippery slope of Hall of Fame candidates. How many times do we have to point out that Bagwell was noticebly better than his peers before you dig your head from the sand and actually listen?

[CanadianChris 0]

But we CAN compare OPS+, which is independent of time, for all these guys.

 

Dawson - 119

Rice - 128

McGriff - 134

Bagwell - 150

 

It's a huge difference, far too large to say Bagwell wasn't better than everyone else on that list.

[Guest NYankees]

OPS is not independent of time. Are you kidding me? A players slugging percentage is going to be alot higher during the juice ball era than a dead ball era. Plus players like Bonds see alot less pitches and walk at a higher frequency due to their power and batters eye. The on base percentage goes up even further. Look at Giambi, his ops is pretty good even though he has become a .250 hitter now. His on base percentage is anywhere from .450 to .500. Manny Ramirez in a down year had an ops of 1.060. This era since 1995 has had a great impact on Numbers.

 

Al, you have averages adjusted for home park. That fails to take into account the other half of their games played. I am sorry but I prefer players who put up dominant numbers during a downtime for runs scored. It is alot more impressive to me to see a player hit 40 homeruns and drive in 120 rbi's in 1978 than a guy who does it in 1999.