OAO ECW Thread

[razazteca 0]

Snitsky sure makes some evil looking faces.

[cabbageboy 0]

Humongous, it's time to give up on the RVD ranting at this point. I know I have. Right now I'm just counting the days until he can leave this shithole known as ECW. And I too pondered if that ring attire tonight was a sign of him going to Japan.

 

Why do I watch this show? Is it because there's nothing else on at 10:00 on Tuesday? I'm not sure what the point is to any of it. They job out all the real ECW guys to these new wave dipshits that nobody in their right mind could care about, and the thing is when the Originals NEVER win any matches the audience catches on that it's all bullshit and has less reason to care. If it was a heated feud with solid matches and wins on both sides culminating in the new breed winning the feud then it might get over. But seriously, jobbing RVD and Sabu to scrubs like Striker and Burke only serves as a huge neon sign of "We're burying these guys!" and does jack shit to get anyone over. No one takes it seriously because we all know Van Dam and Sabu should obviously destroy these guys.

[Matt Young 0]

Fuck... Mike Knox actually gets a match and it's the one show I miss.

[Scroby 0]

Fuck... Mike Knox actually gets a match and it's the one show I miss.

It was a pretty decent match as well.

 

So I'm wondering if the WWE is just buring the originals or is the losses actually leading up to something? It could lead to a Heyman on-air return where he cuts a promo firing up the originals to where they just beat the crap out of the new breed.

[Superfly Snuka 0]

Snitsky sure makes some evil looking faces.

 

Anyone else confused as to when they actually test wrestlers for steroids? Snitsky has more acne in more places than anyone currently. His face/head/chest/back/ and even legs tonight had very apparent zits all over tonight (yes, even more so than usual). Apparently he's the new heel monster, but didn't the previously pushed heel, Test, just get suspended for the same thing? Is Vince trying to save money by pushing guys he knows will fail the drug test, so they can wrestle without pay or what?

 

Why do the make guys like Lashley babyface guys when guys with his body-type and lack of mic skills are much more easily got over by being bad-ass heels? Batista and Lashley have sucked as face champions, but easily would have been much better had they been/remained bad-ass heels , with/without a managing-mouthpiece.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Because Lashley is literally a BABY FACE.

[Hasbeen1 0]

I've liked the work of guys like Knox, Burke even Holly more than most on here, but they should have gradually been built up as extremists, not thrown right in there and over the established ECW names. I do understand how they feel Sabu and some others were not dependable and had to get the belt off Van Dam but even giving Sandman or Dreamer a run with the belt would have been better than the Big Show-and I did like some of what he did but there's no way it would have been accepted by the ECW fans. Van Dam should have gotten the belt back. It could have been 75 percent nostalgia/known ECW talent, even with the Dudleys, Douglas, Raven, others unavailable. Rent a 2,000 seat auditorium and tape two weeks worth if they were concerned about costs. Bring out Roadkill with the old look, Super Crazy, Doring. The guest stars made the originals look third and fourth rate to the Smackdown crowds. And unless there's a lot not known, the CM Punk de-push is one of the worst moves of all. Some of the horrible decisions may be by NBC and its owners but Vince-if he wanted-should have been able to convince them of another way to go. It's crazy to think he'd rather do it his way and fail than go a likely successful route and make more millions.

[JPopStarKami 0]

And unless there's a lot not known, the CM Punk de-push is one of the worst moves of all.

 

It's strange, because the news says he's in trouble, but the actual broadcast gives mixed signals. They put him on in the second half hour (the one they're competing with WSX in and gave him a short promo before his match, he won his match, but then Snitsky beat him down. I don't know if that last bit was part of the de-push, or if it was to get Snitsky over as a monster heel.

[NoCalMike 0]

Snitsky is just fucking terrible. He was never any good, but his new look ala "I'm bald and on roids...hey check out my acne" is just fucking disgusting.

[cabbageboy 0]

Scroby, the inherent problem with the New Breed vs. the Originals is the same problem WCW had with the New Blood vs. the Millionaires Club. Namely that it couldn't end with anything good, either the young guys (who are the heels) win out and nobody in theory is supposed to want that, or the old guys (the faces) win and the torch is never passed.

 

I've noticed that most of these lame wins by the New Breed have been in standard matches, not in Extreme Rules matches. I'm assuming at some point the Originals, regardless of Heyman involvement, will challenge the New Breed to an Extreme Rules match. If the Originals get the win back, I might end up being sorta okay with this angle. If they just job again....well, it's bullshit.

 

Hasbeen, I agree almost totally with your post. In fact I was voicing that same frustration last night. When RVD got busted for weed the worst thing they could do was transition it to a guy who wasn't seen as a legit ECW guy. The moment the title went to Big Show, the promotion was doomed. Or rather that they let him keep it for any length of time beyond an emergency placeholder. Dreamer or Sandman should have gotten the belt (Sabu was in trouble along with RVD). This isn't even a knock on Show's actual work, which was his best in years. It's just nobody wanted to see him with the belt and thought it was crap that he had it.

 

The new ECW has let one petty little thing like Van Dam getting busted for weed wreck the entire show. A rational thought would be "Hey, Rob you gotta job the belt but serve your 30 days and it'll be waiting for you....just don't let this happen again." I ask everyone: What good has come from this burying of RVD? It's wrecked ECW. It's killing his career by the day. The guys they job him to aren't getting over. And further, since they have abused him so much in ECW now they have this contract problem with him giving his notice and all that. If they had thought rationally and given him the belt back and forgotten the weed crap, ECW would still be worth a damn.

[Scroby 0]

Scroby, the inherent problem with the New Breed vs. the Originals is the same problem WCW had with the New Blood vs. the Millionaires Club. Namely that it couldn't end with anything good, either the young guys (who are the heels) win out and nobody in theory is supposed to want that, or the old guys (the faces) win and the torch is never passed.

 

I've noticed that most of these lame wins by the New Breed have been in standard matches, not in Extreme Rules matches. I'm assuming at some point the Originals, regardless of Heyman involvement, will challenge the New Breed to an Extreme Rules match. If the Originals get the win back, I might end up being sorta okay with this angle. If they just job again....well, it's bullshit.

 

My main problem with the angle is that it was already tried with Heyman and it didn't work and they're just doing it again but using Vince instead of Heyman, now does that mean it won't work again....probably, but at the same time if it gives most of the roster something to do, I won't complain about it. One thing I'll say about the Originals vs New Breed matches that so far, the matches have been pretty decent to watch, except for the screwed up finishes that Burke has done, twice.

 

I think the one thing thats pissing everyone off about the angle is that the New Breed has been going over the Originals a lot and a lot of people don't think that should happen. I think a lot of people would much rather see Sandman, Dreamer, RVD, Sabu, Balls win the matches and when they don't, people seem to get really pist off about it. Same goes with CM Punk, when he doesn't win or gets the crap beat out of him people seem to get really pist off as well.

 

I will point out that the Originals vs New Breed has been only going on for about 3 weeks, and in week 1 the Originals did go over by beating up Vince's boy Burke, in Week 2 the New Breed did go over but I don't think any of it was a clean win and week 3 both tag matches ended up with the New Breed cheating to win their matches again. So its not like the New Breed is going over and just dominating the ECW Originals, they are cheating to win matches, I think just as long as their winning matches by playing dirty it won't look like the ECW Originals are just jobbers. Also its not like any of the ECW Originals have been made to look weak either, so thats a plus.

 

Me personnally, I'm kinda intrested in seeing where this angle is going, if it is indeed going anywhere and hopefully it does go somewhere intresting this time instead of it just all of a sudden ending like it did with Heyman last time it was done.

[NoCalMike 0]

Well here's some problems right off the bat.

Sandman is missing his Cane

Dreamer is missing his "innovator of violence" weaponry

Sabu is missing tables/chairs/everything else gimmick.

(Among every other original losing their gimmick along the way too)

 

Vince is having guys that built their careers on brawling garbage wrestling, try to wrestle straight matches over and over and over again. It was funny THAT ONE TIME in ECW when Raven challenged Sandman to a straight wrestling match and Sandman pulled off some moves because it was unexpected, not to mention Stevie Richard's hilarious commentary, but it makes no sense really.

 

If ANYTHING, this ECW Originals vs. New Breed should be based on the style CONTRADICTION, and the two different schools of thought. It should be the Originals garbage/brawly style vs. The New Breed's "refined, wrestling craftmanship" (of course that would require actual good workers) Kind of like Taz in ECW "I don't need weapons, my hands are my weapons" vs. Sabu the Homicidal Suicidal Genocidal blah blah, take the gimmick of THAT MATCH(well minus the emotion and endless buildup), and apply it to the Originals vs. New Breed feud, and it would improve this TENFOLD When people think of Dreamer/Sandman/Sabu they think of weapons, chairs, tables, barbwire etc...not restholds, punches and kicks. You don't even have to have the Originals go over in every match, but at least it would improve the quality of the matches and give the fans the entertainment they thought they were going to get when they were told "Sandman/Sabu/Dreamer/RVD wrestling tonight on ECW" I still find irony in how much chairs and tables etc etc are used on RAW, yet supposedly McMahon hates it all, but is willing to let the A-show do it because it gets over.

[Human Fly 0]

I think the CM Punk depush is still on. All that happened last night was CM Punk beating a guy who they are low on and CM Punk being built up a bit just to be fed to Snitsky next week.

[Scroby 0]

I think the CM Punk depush is still on. All that happened last night was CM Punk beating a guy who they are low on and CM Punk being built up a bit just to be fed to Snitsky next week.

Has Snitsky vs CM Punk been annouced for next week? The feeling I got from Snitsky is he's going to just attack random guys.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

1.5, which seems to be what ECW is going to get forever. Or until it gets cancelled.

[Human Fly 0]

I think the CM Punk depush is still on. All that happened last night was CM Punk beating a guy who they are low on and CM Punk being built up a bit just to be fed to Snitsky next week.

Has Snitsky vs CM Punk been annouced for next week? The feeling I got from Snitsky is he's going to just attack random guys.

 

Just conjecture on my part.

[Michrome 0]

I agree with mike, in that if they want to make this work, they have to re-educate the fans about these originals, what they were famous for, etc. The next step after that is actually letting them go all out in the way they used to. That would actually make for a good feud, but as it is it is washed up guys working straight matches with green guys. Not a good combination.

[Scroby 0]

I think the CM Punk depush is still on. All that happened last night was CM Punk beating a guy who they are low on and CM Punk being built up a bit just to be fed to Snitsky next week.

Has Snitsky vs CM Punk been annouced for next week? The feeling I got from Snitsky is he's going to just attack random guys.

 

Just conjecture on my part.

*nods*

[Slickster 0]

In giving the Originals their weapons and making every match Extreme Rules, it would make RAW and SD's top guys look tame by comparison, devaluing them in the eyes of the fans. Compare the Foley-Edge match from WM22 to the hardcore matches happening every week back in 2001. The former was more meaningful and memorable because the use of weapons like cookie sheets and road signs didn't happen every week, unlike in 2001. I like the concept of making Extreme Rules the toughest match in ECW, the optimal feud blowoff match. It makes it much more meaningful when one of those matches does happen.

[Michrome 0]

That line of logic is fine, if you're doing just any brand. They recreated *ECW*, with a roster that cannot work any decent straight matches. The fans staying after Smackdown to watch ECW only want to see tables and spots. That is why the straight matches on ECW have such dead heat. As it is it is just a really bad, bland wrestling show.

[NoCalMike 0]

In giving the Originals their weapons and making every match Extreme Rules, it would make RAW and SD's top guys look tame by comparison, devaluing them in the eyes of the fans.

 

No it doesn't. You don't turn on RAW to see weapons, chairs, tables etc.....it isn't that kind of show. Back when ECW was at it's PEAK, WWE wasdoing just fine as far as business goes, WWE was getting very good ratings while not being 1/4th as violent as ECW. Two different brands, two different kinds of shows, that is what I am asking for.

 

Also, I am talking about specific workers like Sabu, The Sandman, Tommy Dreamer. Those guys built their CAREER on wrestling a certain way, and now Vince is more concerned with his ludicrous vision of what ECW should be, all the while you have plenty of violence and Brawly matches on RAW on a weekly basis because Vince knows it gets over with the fans, but because RAW is the "A" show, it's fine and dandy to use the violence and weapons as a means to excite the fans.

 

And for the thousandth time, "Extreme Rules" didn't always necessarily mean the match would have weapons. In fact, MOST of the time it merely meant there were no stupid countouts, so if the wrestlers wanted to brawl outside of the ring, they could without having to worry about getting back into the ring in 10 seconds. A lot of people that make these striking generalizations about the old ECW have really got me questioning just how much of the real ECW they have actually seen, and I'm not talking about WWE-released DVDs.

[cabbageboy 0]

So are they ever going to just let the Originals get a win at all in this feud? You know I did think of a piece of booking that would be possibly worse than what they've been doing. The Originals get fed up and challenge the New Breed to an Extreme Rules match...and then just job in it too.

 

Anyone else think RVD has a calendar and is crossing off the days until July or whenever his contract is up?

[Mecca 0]

1.5, which seems to be what ECW is going to get forever. Or until it gets cancelled.

 

That's about as good of a rating as Sci Fi does for anything, they'll probably beg WWE to keep the show going when the contract is about to expire.

[2GOLD 0]

1.5, which seems to be what ECW is going to get forever. Or until it gets cancelled.

 

That's about as good of a rating as Sci Fi does for anything, they'll probably beg WWE to keep the show going when the contract is about to expire.

 

Well, it's not on par with what their top shows usually do which is usually the 1.7 to the 2.0 range. When SG1 fell to the 1.5 range, it headed for cancellation. So don't be so sure Sci-Fi is aching to renew that contract at the end of the year when they can toss on almost any sci-fi show and hit that.

 

Right now, 1.5 puts it ahead of Dr. Who...that's about it. When it first started with a 2.5? Yes, it was the best.

1.5? No, that's not as great as you think for the channel. Hell, their crappy MOVIES get 1.5 range.

[Scroby 0]

So are they ever going to just let the Originals get a win at all in this feud? You know I did think of a piece of booking that would be possibly worse than what they've been doing. The Originals get fed up and challenge the New Breed to an Extreme Rules match...and then just job in it too.

Technically the angle has only been going for 3 weeks, 2 of those weeks actually involved matches where all of the New Breed didn't win clean. You do have to put over the heels before you have the faces start winning. So I say give it another week or two before we start seeing the faces win.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

So are they ever going to just let the Originals get a win at all in this feud? You know I did think of a piece of booking that would be possibly worse than what they've been doing. The Originals get fed up and challenge the New Breed to an Extreme Rules match...and then just job in it too.

Technically the angle has only been going for 3 weeks, 2 of those weeks actually involved matches where all of the New Breed didn't win clean. You do have to put over the heels before you have the faces start winning. So I say give it another week or two before we start seeing the faces win.

 

While I think your logic is 100% on the money Scroby, I doubt it actually happens. I was waiting for WCW to be made out like a legit threat during the Invasion, either through debuts like Nash/Hall/Goldberg, or just by actual WCW wrestlers (and not Steve Austin) winning matches. Never happened. And with the current direction of ECW (pushing a Smackdown worker to the top, using Raw/SD castoffs as the top heels, making "Extreme Rules" a seldom practice in a brand with Extreme in the title), I don't except this to be any different.

[Ace Austin 0]

Snitsky may have a new look, but he still isn't that strong.

He wouldn't stand a chance against Lashley unless an interference occurs.